EPTBGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ - Page 3
| Forum Index > BW General |
|
kurrrak
Poland118 Posts
| ||
|
D3AD-R3TARD
Poland296 Posts
On April 18 2020 04:15 kurrrak wrote: Good work, let's hope the algorithm will get better over time. As someone already mentioned definitely take APM into consideration - just played the game which was team of 230, 220, 50 APM against 130, 50, 20 and it was terrible. Also sometimes someone won't pick race what makes bot saying "Game won't start unless all players select race" all the time. You should implement auto kicking option after few warnings. As to BGH imbalance in my opinion it's not about map features (after few games you learn to overcome cliff drops, cannon rush, etc.) but more about races. Zerg for 90% games is just meat unless whole team is Z and You can go ling rush all together. Protoss is definitely superior to other races since it's the most versatile on BGH. Also is it possible to have always one obs slot opened for someone who just wants to watch? As of now in first 4 matches APM is used to set initial mmr. But there is still problem with new players. It's hard to tell how good they are in just 1, or 2 matches. I thought about making games for ranked players only (minimum 4 matches). That might reduce unpredictable element that unranked players bring to the game. Making it possible to obs might actually require lots of work so right now I don't plan this. On April 18 2020 06:46 Liquid`Drone wrote: I'd like to see fixed turnrate, tbh. most games go down to 8 because dynamic tends to be a bit stupid with 6 players. What do youm mean by fixed turnrate? On April 18 2020 09:42 bmarcov wrote: @D3AD-R3TARD thanks a lot for making these bots. Auto balancing may not be perfect, but it delivers most often than not. It's been quite a while since I had so much fun playing BGH. Keep up the good work! A couple of features you may want to add: 1. kick users who don't select their race after a few warnings 2. keep track of users with a habit of leaving the games immediately after they start and auto ban them for a few days EDIT: Besides, I wonder whether replays can be made available through the website. Personally I'd love to learn from the S-rank folks, or just plainly enjoy their games. Finally, have you considered open sourcing the project? I'm testing feature to kick players who don't select race. It should work in a day or two. As of leaving the game before it starts it's actually less often. Also, players should be allowed to leave the game if the don't like balancing so for now I don't plan to ban them. I have the replays and can upload them. I'am just not sure if all people are ok with their replays being available to download for everyone... For now I don't plan to open source the project but that might change. On April 19 2020 04:19 kurrrak wrote: One more remark: while looking for optimal balance formula You should look into games that last the longest. Those are probably most balanced since they are long (most of the time). Yeah, I thought about this. But from what I see in the games there are often players who play very defensively. They don't help their allays and mostly lose but with those players games tend to get very long. Those games are long but not balanced. So I'm not sure. But I'll test it. I constantly test new formulas for calculating MMR. With more games there is more data to compare different formulas so thanks for all the players who contribute to this and play balanced games. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28598 Posts
usually on EU, if you set the turnrate to 14 or 12, this is no problem ingame, however if it's set to dynamic, the turnrate will very often go down to 8 even if there is no need for it. This is kind of annoying because the game is a lot better on turnrate 12 than it is on turnrate 8. | ||
Chosi
Germany1302 Posts
1. Once after the bot switched us we had 3 terrans in a team, which makes you lose to almost anything. Not sure if there is any way to take race into account. If you have a pretty bad P with you and all he does is sending zealots, that will do a lot. If you have a bad terran and he sends a few marines, that does nothing. Z is somehow in between. 2. Balancing around one very good player seems super hard. No suggestion here but some people are just too good to play 3v3 with us noobs :-) Thanks again! You actually saved playing SC for me, as before it was just frustrating having the host pick his super team and instant start -_- | ||
|
D3AD-R3TARD
Poland296 Posts
On April 20 2020 06:52 Liquid`Drone wrote: fixed turnrate means you select TR 24 or 20 or 16 or 14 or 12 or 10 or 8. dynamic changes the turnrate ingame. usually on EU, if you set the turnrate to 14 or 12, this is no problem ingame, however if it's set to dynamic, the turnrate will very often go down to 8 even if there is no need for it. This is kind of annoying because the game is a lot better on turnrate 12 than it is on turnrate 8. Thanks for the explanation. I've used dynamic turn rate because someone recommended it to me. I'll try turn rate 12 on one of the bots today and see how it works. On April 20 2020 07:50 Chosi wrote: Just played several of your bot games and it was very good. Two things: 1. Once after the bot switched us we had 3 terrans in a team, which makes you lose to almost anything. Not sure if there is any way to take race into account. If you have a pretty bad P with you and all he does is sending zealots, that will do a lot. If you have a bad terran and he sends a few marines, that does nothing. Z is somehow in between. 2. Balancing around one very good player seems super hard. No suggestion here but some people are just too good to play 3v3 with us noobs :-) Thanks again! You actually saved playing SC for me, as before it was just frustrating having the host pick his super team and instant start -_- 1. Yeah, some race combinations are just bad or no fun to play. I would gladly remove all one race combos (ZZZ, PPP, TTT). But host can't really control this. Some players change race just before the game starts so even if I introduce some mechanism for race balancing it probably will get misused. Other thing I thought about was bot leaving games with uninteresting race compositions. Those games wouldn't be taken into account. But this would reveal races of the opposite team so it's also not perfect. For now, I don't have a good solution, so I leave this as is. 2. Yes, some groups of players just cannot be split into two teams evenly. If one player is much better or much worse than all the others — it always creates slightly unbalanced game. One solution for this would be to open more slots and then ban 2 players that make the game unbalanced. But I worry that this would discourage people to join games cause who wants to wait 3 minutes in lobby just to get kicked. Glad to hear that this made games better for you. It was the whole idea of this — to make BGH more interesting  | ||
|
att
128 Posts
| ||
|
D3AD-R3TARD
Poland296 Posts
On April 21 2020 21:56 att wrote: Some guy was running an exploit (?) on the bot and trying to force a 3v4 game before. Not sure if intentional, the bot stayed quiet for the duration of 3v4 matchmaking duration. At the end the guy changed it to 4v4 and game started That's interesting but I couldn't find any games with more than 6 players from today or yesterday. Are you sure that game was hosted by BghMmrBot_EU1/BghMmrBot_EU2. Some players host games with similar names but those games are not autobalanced. A bug or lag might cause additional slot open. But as I said there were no 7 or 8 player games started by bot. Of course even if started those games don't matter in mmr ranking. | ||
|
Chosi
Germany1302 Posts
| ||
|
att
128 Posts
| ||
|
D3AD-R3TARD
Poland296 Posts
On May 02 2020 05:28 Chosi wrote: your new game name does not reflect that the game is 3v3 Hi, I'am changing match naming schema because I'm planning to introduce games only for people who played least 4 matches. I realized that right now most problematic thing are new players who's MMR doesn't reflect their skill level. So games created only for people who are already ranked would solve this. Of course games for everyone shoule be more common to let people get into league. Because of this there will have to be place in game name to mark game as avaible for all or only ranked players. I'm thinking something like 3x3 BGH League All Welcome / 3x3 BGH League Ranked Only. But I don't know yet. There can be only 31 characters in game name. If you have any suggestions feel free to post them. Most players played at least one game with bot so they know that it's 3x3. On May 02 2020 17:29 att wrote: Does the bot leave when the game starts, and immediately the bot makes a new game for people to join? or does the bot stay in the game for the entire duration of the match? In order to get replay file and results screenshot bot needs to stay in game. Bot sometimes might leave is there is some sort of glitch or some players left before game started and match will be invalid so there is no point in waiting for result. | ||
|
Chosi
Germany1302 Posts
BGH balance-bot (ranked only) maybe? | ||
|
Poegim
Poland264 Posts
| ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28598 Posts
If you can't stand having newbie teammates I think you just have to create games on your own. for me, the newbies being my teammates rather than my opponents is part of what I like about this. xD | ||
|
D3AD-R3TARD
Poland296 Posts
On May 03 2020 20:15 Chosi wrote: BGH3x3 balance-bot (open4all) BGH balance-bot (ranked only) maybe? Those are good. I'll test them right away. Right now there are only open games but I want to make people used to those names. On May 03 2020 20:46 Poegim wrote: You should separate players by rank. Ex: 3v3 [A only], 3v3 [B only], u will avoid gams where someone is A rank and instantly gets 2 super low allies and playing almost 1v3. Games would be WAY MORE balanced and ladder would be way more accurate. Yeah, separating players by rank would make game more balanced. No doubt about this. But I think that there is just not enough people playing BGH. However, there are tons of ranked players so there is a chance for ranked only games that will not require people waiting 10 minutes for a match. On May 04 2020 00:16 Liquid`Drone wrote: meh, I think it's important that the games start fast personally, and I don't mind playing an almost 1v3 vs 3 c-d rank players. If it's me S and three B players and 2 E players, it's gonna match me with one of the B-s. You never get a 1v3 against good players (unless there are good players with bad stats that haven't played yet, but no way to deal with that). If you can't stand having newbie teammates I think you just have to create games on your own. for me, the newbies being my teammates rather than my opponents is part of what I like about this. xD I've seen tons of those games and sometimes even games with big difference in skill are balanced but only if players have correct MMR assigned. The fun part is that in order to sustain really high rank you have to guide and protect your teammates and I've seen more and more players do this. I like that games are more team oriented rather than 3 x 1v1. | ||
|
kurrrak
Poland118 Posts
| ||
|
D3AD-R3TARD
Poland296 Posts
On May 09 2020 23:03 kurrrak wrote: Is there possibility to have at least 3 bots working at once? I see there's much demand for using it and lot of ppl have to wait. I'll test running 3 bots at once this week. I have some problems that causes bots to freeze. I can't quite figure out what is not working so I'm not sure how running 3 or more bots will work. | ||
|
Poegim
Poland264 Posts
| ||
|
Jealous
10107 Posts
 | ||
|
att
128 Posts
On April 19 2020 04:19 kurrrak wrote: One more remark: while looking for optimal balance formula You should look into games that last the longest. Those are probably most balanced since they are long (most of the time). I dont know man. Sometimes with BGH's infinite resources a good player will just expand, expand, expand and slowly whittle down the worse playing opponents. I've seen it happen, they prefer to slowly roast their enemies | ||
|
D3AD-R3TARD
Poland296 Posts
On May 10 2020 17:12 Poegim wrote: Betting for typo ;D That would be great but it's not coming from my code. To run many games at the same time, I use wine / xephyr / virtualgl combo and something is failing after 4-6 hours of running. If I restart the system, everything is ok again. Although I think I have preety good knowlegde of linux I can't figure this out. For now I think about automatic restarts every 3-4 hours.On May 13 2020 07:21 Jealous wrote: Sent requests a week or two ago and still pending I accept requests daily. No pending request ATM so maybe resend. Or maybe you've sent the request to wrong account. On May 13 2020 16:07 att wrote: I dont know man. Sometimes with BGH's infinite resources a good player will just expand, expand, expand and slowly whittle down the worse playing opponents. I've seen it happen, they prefer to slowly roast their enemies Once I fix all maintenance bugs, I'll update MMR system. With more and more games, I can usually find better formula. Actually, balanced are less informative than unbalanced ones. If game is balanced, that means that most likely MMRs of players are correct and don't require much change. It's the unbalanced games that give more information because they show that skill of players is not estimated correctly. With matching players in teams by MMR all games should be pretty balanced but some aren't and this should be avoided. | ||
| ||
