EPTThooorin's take on the "God of the Battlefield" - Page 2
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
For example, if Ver said 5 MSL finals in a row instead of 6SL, it would be true and it would have the same effect in the narrative. The part where he talked about other matchups i do believe Ver was comparing it for the numbers. And that can work. You can say a football player that won Three cups in a row is as impressive than rolland garos player going 3 in a row. So i found it a little cherry picking. Also Thorin assumes a lot of what Ver did want to do. Is he right ? I don't know. Well... He may be right but it looks like slender to force upon us all Thorin's facts. I don't think that was necessary as he makes also valid points. Also losing to a Terran on a Zerg favored map happens to everyone. Winning on Terran favored map had not. (Fuck you Longinus :p) Thorin is even doing the same thing as what he is trying to achieve : "The article is Fraud of the Battlefield" while ONLY the narrative is false (or innacurate). Tactics analysis are... 90% of Ver's article and are correct (or so i think). Basicly. Thorin did what Ver did. It was a good watch nonetheless. On April 23 2019 14:29 IntoTheEmo wrote: I think it does. Because a good amount of people probably, myself included, took the entire article at face value, but Thoorin the statistics aficionado spends an entire hour examining that time period it cited. I personally found it pretty satisfying (spoiler: I'm not a fan of Savior). Then Savior shouldn't have lost to his good pal Shine[Name] twice in series play during that 12-0 "Era of Domination" then should he? He's not attacking Ver's quality of writing - heck he declared at least twice in the video that "God of the Battlefield" is the greatest esports article he's read and the tactics analysis with graphics blah blah blah were "dynamite stuff". That's my problem with the video. He says : "It's good blahblah for 10seconds" then he spends an hour on 10% of the article. As i said just in my wall of text up. He's doing exactly the same thing. It's like i would tell you : "You are a piece of shit in this post but all of your other posts were fine" (it's an example, i do not believe you are PoS for your post). You would not even react to the end of my sentence. You would get blocked on the insult (which is human). So... Interesting video because of what he points out that is true (missing series) but not an absolute thrilling one either. Good watch but... MEh for a lot of it | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On April 23 2019 19:00 IntoTheEmo wrote: Yeah that's definitely true, if he was a fan of the article he should've covered some of the positives as well. I'll concede that. The video's already an hour long though :\ I guess he could have done that instead of going for the 6SL wins because this was really cherry picking as 5MSL in a row was already an achievement. But yeah... more than an hour and no one would watch it | ||
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ii.blitzkrieg
Canada1122 Posts
Save yourself the hour of watching this and go read the article if you haven't already with a small grain of salt for the stats used in the opening. Go watch some of the series of the time period to see Savior's dominance first hand and enjoy yourself. Being around for that era as a Terran player I absolutely hated Savior. Not long after I was able to look back and appreciate his greatness. It was an awesome era of transition and change for the best match up in BW while the top Terrans were all basically trying to figure out how to take down a Zerg Bonjwa. edit: some good games of the time off the top of my head if you don't want to bother getting the full context of the time - savior vs iris savior vs midas savior vs nada savior vs fbh (this is slightly later on.) | ||
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Odoakar
Croatia1835 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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AntiHack
Switzerland553 Posts
On April 23 2019 06:01 fazek42 wrote: I kinda like seperate threads, because sometimes I'm just too lazy to open up the BW general thread to see if there's anything new in there I feel like the over-use of the general discussion have a soporific effect on the forum/site. We may hire new volunteer moderators if we're in short of that. What do you guys think? | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2221 Posts
Letmelose some time ago wrote that no site has perfect stats for bw kespa era, some games that are counted on tlpd are not included on ygosu and other korean sources, so it is really difficult to get 100% acurrate win %. And the name Fraud of the battlefield is just cringy af imo. God of the battlefield represents the greatness of saviors carreer based on tactical play and godlike map abuse for his era. It was a super good video tho, hope he keeps doing bw stuff. | ||
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sour_eraser
Canada932 Posts
He's still very desperate to become relevant again to the point where he's throwing mud everywhere hoping one will stick. I remember him posting garbage and clickbaity Dota 2 content until he got banned from dota 2 subreddit then he moved on to LoL. But that didn't work out as well as he thought so now he's doing this kind of nitpicking BW content. He should really stick to CS:GO, at least he's somewhat respected there | ||
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JakePlissken
55 Posts
On April 24 2019 05:38 BigFan wrote: Am I the only one confused as to why Thorin felt the need to criticize an article almost 8 years after it was written and released? Obviously there's no time limit to criticize anything, but 8 years in esports is huge and it honestly sounds more like a clickbait video than anything else. Granted, I haven't watched the video to confirm that, but reading the comments, it sounds like the video was mostly critical on an aspect or two. It's also true that offline prelim results aren't factored into a player WRs and just because a player is a bonjwa doesn't mean that they won't drop maps or games to others. I was wondering that too. It's a great article, but I think most people had forgotten about it until now. I certainly had, but I'm glad it reminded me to give it another read. I do think it's appropriate to criticize the "truth optional" and cherry-picked approach the article takes with regards to stats. He mainly takes issue with the narrative that Savior was some unstoppable ZvT god when in fact he was getting knocked out of 5 OSL qualifiers by relatively unknown Terrans. To me it sounded like the point about prelim matches was more illustrative than anything, although he could have made it clearer - he says Savior's actual record in that time was 16-6 if you count prelims, which hardly paints the same picture as the infallible 12-0 infographic wants you to believe, and that was the real issue he was pointing out. Is the criticism fair and warranted? Yeah, probably. But it's not really relevant to anything happening in BW at the moment. | ||
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ColdLava
Canada1673 Posts
On April 24 2019 17:05 JakePlissken wrote: I was wondering that too. It's a great article, but I think most people had forgotten about it until now. I certainly had, but I'm glad it reminded me to give it another read. I do think it's appropriate to criticize the "truth optional" and cherry-picked approach the article takes with regards to stats. He mainly takes issue with the narrative that Savior was some unstoppable ZvT god when in fact he was getting knocked out of 5 OSL qualifiers by relatively unknown Terrans. To me it sounded like the point about prelim matches was more illustrative than anything, although he could have made it clearer - he says Savior's actual record in that time was 16-6 if you count prelims, which hardly paints the same picture as the infallible 12-0 infographic wants you to believe, and that was the real issue he was pointing out. Is the criticism fair and warranted? Yeah, probably. But it's not really relevant to anything happening in BW at the moment. I agree with this post. I also agree with what Oystein wrote in the last page. Savior's peak in Broodwar was not about perfection where he simply did not lose games (or series) such as peak iloveoov or peak flash, it was about how against the odds Savior's peak was. Savior, probably more than any other player, created a mystique where he was in peoples heads, scary to play against, where even if you won games against Savior, they were incredibly difficult and took a lot of effort. In a game against Savior, even if by most indicators you should easily roll over him with your army due to what's happened in the game, you still just did not know whether he had a group of a defiler and 5 lurkers waiting that could dismantle your attack. That's what Thorin is saying Ver misrepresents, although I think if you read Ver's article, Ver describes the context of Savior's reign very well. It was mostly the infographic and some statistical omissions that Thorin rags on. I wouldn't call this article a fraud. Also, like Oystein said, losses in ODT and in Chinese leagues were taken with a different significance than series plays in the OSL/MSLs. Thorin does have aspergers and he tends to see things as very black and white, and these are the kinds of things that would hang Thorin up, but his presence in the esports journalism world is important. | ||
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On April 26 2019 03:45 ColdLava wrote: Thorin does have aspergers and he tends to see things as very black and white, and these are the kinds of things that would hang Thorin up This explains so much. | ||
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