EPTyoutu.be
Thooorin's take on the "God of the Battlefield"
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
youtu.be | ||
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.gypsy
Canada689 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On April 23 2019 04:54 .gypsy wrote: Does this really need its own thread lol I don't know, probably not. I just thought it would be cool to share since "mainstream" content for Brood War isn't exactly the most prevalent thing out there in 2019. | ||
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Ikirouta
Finland727 Posts
On April 23 2019 04:54 .gypsy wrote: Does this really need its own thread lol why not? | ||
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fazek42
Hungary438 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4165 Posts
Thanks for the heads up. | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13918 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2221 Posts
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49904 Posts
https://tl.net/forum/final-edits/405029-god-of-the-battlefield-part-2 Linking it for people to read. | ||
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ironcell
Chile1127 Posts
He is trying to said "guys hear me I can tell you the real story better than Ver" then he nitpick the statistics used or manipulated by Ver from the first infographic for 60 minutes, Ver wrote a "fraud", but you know what? We can sit and wait for him to write something of the same quality and depth and we will get nothing. Ver "manipulated" data to write that Saviour got a 71% win rate vs Terrans, so this article may a gem, but is full of "lies". Seriously? Another provocative heading by Thorin with almost nothing to offer, for the way he talks and thow trash at Ver, he doesn't even know what a bonjwa is, watch it at your own risk. Or better yet, don't waste your time and read the articles of Ver instead. For anything curious i am not a fan of Saviour, but still I don't like people who trash other to build their careers. | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
On April 23 2019 04:54 .gypsy wrote: Does this really need its own thread lol I think it does. Because a good amount of people probably, myself included, took the entire article at face value, but Thoorin the statistics aficionado spends an entire hour examining that time period it cited. I personally found it pretty satisfying (spoiler: I'm not a fan of Savior). On April 23 2019 13:39 ironcell wrote: I am watching right now, and it's kind of sad, if i remember correctly Thorin likes to said "polemic" things for "truth" sake, but he really does not understand the nature of the BW competition and i am afraid that also he is ignorant, to say the least, of the BW meta at Saviour's golden days (He even said that) He is trying to said "guys hear me I can tell you the real story better than Ver" then he nitpick the statistics used or manipulated by Ver from the first infographic for 60 minutes, Ver wrote a "fraud", but you know what? We can sit and wait for him to write something of the same quality and depth and we will get nothing. Ver "manipulated" data to write that Saviour got a 71% win rate vs Terrans, so this article may a gem, but is full of "lies". Seriously? Another provocative heading by Thorin with almost nothing to offer, for the way he talks and thow trash at Ver, he doesn't even know what a bonjwa is, watch it at your own risk. Or better yet, don't waste your time and read the articles of Ver instead. For anything curious i am not a fan of Saviour, but still I don't like people who trash other to build their careers. Then Savior shouldn't have lost to his good pal Shine[Name] twice in series play during that 12-0 "Era of Domination" then should he? He's not attacking Ver's quality of writing - heck he declared at least twice in the video that "God of the Battlefield" is the greatest esports article he's read and the tactics analysis with graphics blah blah blah were "dynamite stuff". | ||
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
Thorin just chose to rail on the way Ver used statistics, without discussing the underlying factors, which would judge whether savior should be considered bonjywa: his play during games, and his contributions to the broodwar meta. | ||
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Berby
15 Posts
On April 23 2019 14:49 Chronopolis wrote: Pointing the statistical errors and cherry picking is fine and all, but to counter that, he lists maps that Savior loses on, which have less than 20 games on them over 5 years. A bonjwa will drop maps, of course. Just because he speaks convincingly doesn't mean his evidence is any less anecdotal. Thorin just chose to rail on the way Ver used statistics, without discussing the underlying factors, which would judge whether savior should be considered bonjywa: his play during games, and his contributions to the broodwar meta. He doesn't discuss whether savior should be considered a bonjwa because this video isn't about whether or not Savior is a bonjwa. It's simply showing that while the article is incredible, it omits certain data and includes others arbitrarily to force a narrative. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
While ver did not give exact data for his winrates for the other players, its pretty obvious he was picking the longest peak winrates he could find, explaining why there was a different time, amount of games etc for them. I mean Flash streak happened years after savior. If you actually look at Saviors ZvT winrate during this period in official games, its 68% while everyone else was struggling ZvT. What he did was incredible at the time. For someone who seems to know so much about the history of BW, it seems like he cant have been around at the time savior was actually doing this. Because ZvT was a graveyard during that time, alot of the map pools was horror shows for ZvT, with alot maps heavily favoring T (60+% winrates). One of these starleagues he won, Savior was the only one winning a ZvT for the entire thing. Asking for more citations and sources for his claims is a fair request, but to straight up call this fraudulent and lies is pretty stupid in my opinion when his entire case comes from cherry picking prelim stats that nobody else uses. | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On April 23 2019 15:40 Oystein wrote: While he makes some valid points, I think a lot of what he brings up are just plain wrong. Offline prelim games have never been considered official matches in BW, they didnt show up on players stats before games in broadcasted games, hence you even have to filter them in if you want to see them in TLPD. While Ver might have taken some liberties in his work, excluding prelim games are def not one of them. He also makes a big fuzz about how he lost the 13th series on the same day as his 12th win. Clearly if you are showing someones best streak you do the streak until a loss occurs, what happens after that is irrelevant for the 12-0. Now you could argue the superfights should not have been included, but the streak for official series was not lies. I think this guy is the first one I have ever seen who brings up prelim games like they are incredibly meaningful official games. While ver did not give exact data for his winrates for the other players, its pretty obvious he was picking the longest peak winrates he could find, explaining why there was a different time, amount of games etc for them. I mean Flash streak happened years after savior. If you actually look at Saviors ZvT winrate during this period in official games, its 68% while everyone else was struggling ZvT. What he did was incredible at the time. For someone who seems to know so much about the history of BW, it seems like he cant have been around at the time savior was actually doing this. Because ZvT was a graveyard during that time, alot of the map pools was horror shows for ZvT, with alot maps heavily favoring T (60+% winrates). One of these starleagues he won, Savior was the only one winning a ZvT for the entire thing. Asking for more citations and sources for his claims is a fair request, but to straight up call this fraudulent and lies is pretty stupid in my opinion when his entire case comes from cherry picking prelim stats that nobody else uses. Seems like I wasn't the only one who was left with a bad taste in my mouth after watching the video. While what he said about the offline qualifiers are valid points on a pure technical level, I did start to wonder when I had last seen these qualifiers actually included in the winrate stats of a BW or SC2 pro for that matter. | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
He does have a point though. You kinda have to be in the OSL, aka not lose to Shine[Name] and Yooi in OSL prelims, to lose in the OSL. I wasn't watching BW at the time either, but I get the vibe about TvZ in those days. To his credit, he did look at Ride of the Valkyries and Forte. Also, it's Savior we're talking about. Man doesn't need anyone else to destroy his legacy for him, he already did a good job of that on his own. | ||
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