EPTIf the players show up, it should be great.
KSL S3 Map Pool + Registration - Page 3
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errol1001
454 Posts
If the players show up, it should be great. | ||
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
On March 09 2019 12:31 onlystar wrote: your tone is very humorous to me in this post.. ''terrans can beat both zerg and protosses with a cool 55% winrate and stil call the map neutral'' (55% is still on the edge of a acceptable map imbalance as most players agree since 51/52/53 i just rare to hit on anymap..) You asked for statistics and I give you statistics and now you whine about my tone? I'm sorry if I'm not here to coddle you. I pointed out the fact that Flash lost to Snow on ASL 5 because that's really the epicenter of complaining about map imbalances in ASL 5, when in reality TvP isn't as broken as it first appears in ASL 5. And what are you on about? Terrans' ELO-based worst match-up on FS and CS is not 55%, it's 55.8%. And it goes as high as 57.8% against Protosses on CB. You'd know both of these if you actually looked at the data. A map where Terrans have no bad match-ups by at least a 5% margin is not a map imbalance? Yet you complain about Third World that only has a 2.3% discrepancy in TvP? Careful lad, your bias is showing. On March 09 2019 12:31 onlystar wrote: so funny that you add the flash won part where you not able to judge the game for what it is why he won the map at all? flash wentout on an all-in push to kill, everything to avoid a late game on the map since carriers are completely OP on that map and ripped him apart in litterly every practice match in late games. Why do you think I added it? If Flash lost on Transistor, then there would be an argument to be made that the map imbalance lost Flash that map as Transistor is the only map in the ASL 5 map pool that's indisputably broken for TvP. But he didn't lose, and that's the point. On March 09 2019 12:31 onlystar wrote: this is even more hilarious you set up a bo5 with at least 2 maps that are complete hell for terran and third world is used x2(even designed to give terran a horrable time Transisor /third world/) even the map makers/asl organisation has said the maps are designed to not have flash as another asl winner So I don't know how many times I have to say this, so I'll bold it for you because you're clearly not even reading my posts. TRANSISTOR WAS THE ONLY BROKEN MAP FOR TVP IN ASL 5. The closest thing to a Protoss favoured map after Transistor was Third World, which is within your magical acceptabable 5% margin. And so what if the tournament was geared to kill Flash? The past two tournaments were geared to get a Zerg (specifically JD) to win and that failed too. On March 09 2019 12:31 onlystar wrote: when you read these things so many things go trough my head like how you can look deeper into the statistics whats going on what is happing with the terran lineup flash/last/mind that where wrecking afreeca Are you actually insane or do you not understand how ELO works? The point of an ELO-predicted winrate is to predict which race is more likely to win at the same ELO. So it doesn't matter as much if Flash beat Tyson on Sparkle 4000 times, the winrate won't be shifted drastically in favour of T. Contrarily if Tyson beats Flash more than he loses, then the ELO-based prediction shifts sharply in favour of Protoss. On March 09 2019 12:31 onlystar wrote: but hey something tells me this one is not able to listen to reasoning this one is lost The greatest irony is that I'm the one arguing with statistics and facts and you're the one whining about my tone and not providing a shred of evidence for your claims. Complain about my tone if you want, but at least do me the decency of reading the statistics YOU asked for. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
 User was warned for this post. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4267 Posts
I really like Cross Game and Neo Overwatch, also Colosseum II. Overall this is a okay mappool, a bit on the boring side though. My perfect mappool for this season would be something like this: (2) Cross Game (2) Neo Overwatch (3) Pathfinder (3) Tau Cross (4) Colosseum II (4) Judgement Day (4) Othello | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
On March 10 2019 15:16 RWLabs wrote: You asked for statistics and I give you statistics and now you whine about my tone? I'm sorry if I'm not here to coddle you. I pointed out the fact that Flash lost to Snow on ASL 5 because that's really the epicenter of complaining about map imbalances in ASL 5, when in reality TvP isn't as broken as it first appears in ASL 5. And what are you on about? Terrans' ELO-based worst match-up on FS and CS is not 55%, it's 55.8%. And it goes as high as 57.8% against Protosses on CB. You'd know both of these if you actually looked at the data. A map where Terrans have no bad match-ups by at least a 5% margin is not a map imbalance? Yet you complain about Third World that only has a 2.3% discrepancy in TvP? Careful lad, your bias is showing. Why do you think I added it? If Flash lost on Transistor, then there would be an argument to be made that the map imbalance lost Flash that map as Transistor is the only map in the ASL 5 map pool that's indisputably broken for TvP. But he didn't lose, and that's the point. So I don't know how many times I have to say this, so I'll bold it for you because you're clearly not even reading my posts. TRANSISTOR WAS THE ONLY BROKEN MAP FOR TVP IN ASL 5. The closest thing to a Protoss favoured map after Transistor was Third World, which is within your magical acceptabable 5% margin. And so what if the tournament was geared to kill Flash? The past two tournaments were geared to get a Zerg (specifically JD) to win and that failed too. Are you actually insane or do you not understand how ELO works? The point of an ELO-predicted winrate is to predict which race is more likely to win at the same ELO. So it doesn't matter as much if Flash beat Tyson on Sparkle 4000 times, the winrate won't be shifted drastically in favour of T. Contrarily if Tyson beats Flash more than he loses, then the ELO-based prediction shifts sharply in favour of Protoss. The greatest irony is that I'm the one arguing with statistics and facts and you're the one whining about my tone and not providing a shred of evidence for your claims. Complain about my tone if you want, but at least do me the decency of reading the statistics YOU asked for. you dont get it do you, your tone gave away how biased you are thats why i brought it up you come across as some guy on a crusade versus terran on conventional maps that nobody has any problem with going up against terran, if you feel you come short versus terran players on F.S C.B you dont have enough assets in your arsenal to deal with terran at all. i feel thats the case here pretty much. you blatantly scream out %'s and IMBALANCE with zero knowledge of what the statistics behold concerning the third world as said before the tournament was supposed to deny flash another ASL win transistor / third world made that possible. why did third world not come out as heavily protoss favoured in the sponbang, ill get to that later in my post. (it litterly takes 1 look for someone with a little bit of TvP knowledge to see that map would become really protoss favored in the late/mid game.) (cant believe someone has to explain this to you lol but here we go: so its a semi-island thats extremely good for carriers you start out on the non island part of the map in case of carriers you can hardly touch them if they are on the island part of the map unless you would need to get a lot of dropships to carry gols over when you are allready hurting gas you need all the gas you can get on gols not spend it on dropships so its less cost-effective and also cost more apm/time just to get units/gols across to the island part +sniping of dropships with carriers is easy if you get close enough to the dropships. with the map layout on the island part carriers get a free passage to the main to start harassing pining a terran down. as do arbiters pretty much with no reall way to intercept with gols. and ofcourse a third gas is something you can expand to not that hard for a terran on the map but securing it is quite hard since the third gas is far away or close to the main but on the island part. than since its semi-island recalls are also more powerful than on a normal map. plus that of the narrow ramp up the mains terran can fit 1 mech unit at the time good luck cleaning up a recall in the main+ the stasis block ramp is more easy to accomplish as you can almost not miss it really. that will cost the terran its main easily in case of late game refugee protoss to the islands its just incredibly hard to assert yourself as terran on 2 sides of the map in the late game and push in 2 directions this is all so plain and simple to see in conclusion, mid-late game becomes an enormous headache for terrans they are definitely at a disadvantage. every terran user is aware of the imbalance in third world so they will change the mid/early game completly. they will play super aggresivly or heavy harasment that has to payoff to get a huge lead this the only reason they are able to still hit a decent % on that map likewise you fail to understand that thats what happend on transistor, ''but flash WON that'' gosh its so narrowminded yes he won if i bunker rush every protoss on an protoss favoured map the map balance(layout of the map) doesnt matter now does it? Flash understood there is no chance in the late game went for an all-in push to take snow out early so he did not have to deal with the map imbalance. and before you are going on some silly theory where you claim like see terran can adjust it style to maps so its balanced. those playing styles are so sensitive to a proper safe counters from protoss they can easily manage to aim on surviving the early game and taking terran out eventually in the late game, using the map advantages for protoss in their favour. | ||
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[AS]Rattus
428 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
And how are you going to argue that you just "feel" that Third World is incredibly bad for Terran - much worse than statistics suggest? I mean, why would anybody believe you? I too find Third World a harder map for TvP, but how do you explain those statistics? | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
Onlystar's argument essentially comes down to this: Terran players are overall much better than Protoss players | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4267 Posts
Well.. I guess I'll go with stats on this one. | ||
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GunSlinger
614 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
"every terran user is aware of the imbalance in third world so they will change the mid/early game completly. they will play super aggresivly or heavy harasment that has to payoff to get a huge lead this the only reason they are able to still hit a decent % on that map" This translates to, "yes they still win lots of games, but only because they don't play it like Fighting Spirit, therefore it must be imbalanced." which is not a reasonable argument on balance. Sounds more like you want Terrans to be able to play the exact turtle up and then push style they want no matter the map. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
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oshibori_probe
United States2936 Posts
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[AS]Rattus
428 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12042 Posts
On March 13 2019 13:23 oshibori_probe wrote: Is there some policy to not include any ASL maps? There's two good 3-player maps in the ASL but they chuck in fucking Medusa. KSL since season 1 has matched up with ladder maps. Also having tournaments use different maps to each other is good. More variety. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
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Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
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AntiHack
Switzerland553 Posts
I would like KSL to turn a little bit as a musical show like ASL is  On March 09 2019 01:24 BigFan wrote: I think it's fine to keep one of FS and CB, but not both. Having at least one standard map among a lot of different ones isn't a bad idea imo. After all, we still get some really cool games on either map like that Light vs Rain FS game from last KSL. Agreed, they should turn over them one per season | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12042 Posts
On March 13 2019 19:52 Freakling wrote: It's also probably the fact that Afreeca seem to like doing their own thing regarding maps. I doubt they give any one at Blizzard a notification in advance which new maps they are gonna use, so synchronization between map pools is hard. It's good they both have different pools though, more maps overall! <3 | ||
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andertalets77
144 Posts
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