KSL S3 Map Pool + Registration

On March 08 2019 14:45 onlystar wrote:
love to see that f.s c.b is back again it actually is a lovely change from the awkward misbalanced asl maps we have seen (sparkle / third world etc)

On March 08 2019 22:02 BisuDagger wrote:

I gotta agree. I am happy to see FS make an appearance. I am really curious what the state of the meta will look like on FS since so many strategies have changed because of the awkward maps.

On March 08 2019 15:12 RWLabs wrote:

Ah yes, the 59.6% Terran winrate Circuit Breaker and 57.8% Terran winrate Fighting Spirit. Even ELO-wise their worst match-up in both of these maps is a 54.5% advantage against Zergs on CS. CS and FS used to be balanced in 2012 or so, but today they're ridiculous Terran maps. I think it's telling the moment these maps disappeared from ASL, Terrans mysteriously began to underperform. Despite the popular narrative, 3rd World and Sparkle are only really bad for Zerg.

I say bring in the new.

On March 08 2019 13:39 BLinD-RawR wrote:
blizzard still afraid of letting go of FS and CB.

but I guess its a symptom of forcing yourself to have a large tournament map pool.

On March 08 2019 23:52 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I understand for ladder, but i don't recall them saying anything for tourney play.

afreeca hasn't used FS since ASL4 and CB was only used in ASL6 after not being in use for 2 seasons, they're really trying to not use them.

On March 08 2019 23:56 BLinD-RawR wrote:


Cross Game is new.

On March 08 2019 13:33 SCWes wrote:
It's up.

(2) Cross Game 1.07
(3) Medusa 2.2
(4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
(4) Circuit breakers 1.0
(4) In the way of an Eddy 1.06
(4) Colosseum 2.0

Preliminaries will be:

Game 1 - (4) Fighting Spirit 1.3
Game 2 - (4) Circuit breakers 1.0
Game 3 - (3) Medusa 2.2

So, basically this season's ladder maps except (4) Ground Zero 2, but with the addition of (4) Colosseum. Can't say I am too happy about Colosseum or Cross Game.

On March 08 2019 14:42 Bakuryu wrote:
i wish cross game would get an update so my units dont stop before the rally point.
(zerg bottom left, rally main hatch to right side of natural hatch [like 4-5 hex to the right of it], some units from main now stop inbetween the rally point and the ramp to the main.... they are about half a screen short of the rally point...)

On March 08 2019 23:55 Ideas wrote:
Would have liked to see a new map besides Eddy. It's an OK map but sorta boring. It'd be fine if there weren't 3 other very standard 4 player maps in the pool.

On March 09 2019 00:11 Ideas wrote:


Yeah that's true, I guess I just want more than 1 actually new map if the map pool is going to have SIX maps haha.

I appreciate that KSL is trying to differentiate itself from the ASL by using more standard maps and having Bo5s in the group stages and whatnot, and I suppose the standard maps are there to make playing so many BoXs a little easier to prepare for. Honestly assuming they definitely want to keep FS/CB, I'd be happy if they replaced Eddy or Colosseum with 1 more new map or at least another older 2/3 player map.

On March 08 2019 23:32 TT1 wrote:
aw no overwatch :[

On March 09 2019 03:55 oEkY wrote:


The list in the op seems to be wrong, obviously there have to be 7 maps for this tourney (5 maps which will be played in each bo5 + 2 vetoes) overwatch is in the map pool (check out the offical homepage which is also linked in the op

On March 08 2019 22:54 onlystar wrote:


Just by saying third world are really bad for Zerg and not for Terran tvp I can’t take your post serious at all + you are cherry picking statistics from cb/fs show where what your stats pulled?

On March 09 2019 06:49 TT1 wrote:


ahhh right, ty

On March 09 2019 09:12 RWLabs wrote:

You say, as you provide no evidence for your claims. Where else would I get the data? Spponbbang.com of course. Below is the data taken from January 2018 to now, ELO scores (far right) used.

This is the data for FS and CS. Notice how Terrans' worst match-up in those maps are literally 50/50 against TvT? In what world do we live in where Terrans can beat both Zerg and Protosses with a cool 55% winrate and still call the map neutral?

And this is the data for 3rd World. Notice how Terrans beat Zerg, Protoss beat both, and Zergs lose to everyone? Speaking from a PvT perspective the discrepancy in winrate is only 2.6%.

Finally, this is Sparkle. Terrans beat Protosses and lose to Zerg. And while Zergs thrash Terrans, they also have the lowest winrate possible on that map of 30.4% against Protosses. As for PvT? A 5.8% advantage for Terrans.

Where's the outrage over maps when maps like Roadkill boasts a TvP of 56.6% and TvZ of 55.0%? But if Flash loses to Snow apparently the maps are to blame, despite the maps in ASL 5 being reasonable for TvP, with the exception of Transistor (which Flash won).

so funny that you add the flash won part where you not able to judge the game for what it is why he won the map at all?
flash wentout on an all-in push to kill, everything to avoid a late game on the map since carriers are completely OP on that map and ripped him apart in litterly every practice match in late games.

On March 09 2019 14:45 errol1001 wrote:
I hope this KSL is better. Not sure what it is exactly, but the level of play felt much lower than ASL6 or ASL7 overall.

CB & FS both being in the map pool is disappointing, but if we get good games, it's alright. I hope certain players don't decide to sit this one out.


The only reason he emphasized that Flash won on that map is to point out that Flash lost on the relatively balanced maps, and the one truly bad one, he won on. The point was NOT to say that that map is actually not bad for Terran...........

On March 09 2019 14:45 errol1001 wrote:
I hope this KSL is better. Not sure what it is exactly, but the level of play felt much lower than ASL6 or ASL7 overall. .

On March 09 2019 20:14 JakePlissken wrote:


I think after KSL1, a lot of pros decided that it required too much effort to compete in two leagues simultaneously, even if they don't overlap (although they did at the end of ASL6). Jaedong specifically said he wanted to focus solely on ASL and forfeited his seed. Best, Horang2, Shine, Stork, Sea, Snow, and Shuttle all played in the first one and either didn't try or got knocked out in qualifiers. That's a lot of talent to lose from one season to another. Big names like Flash and EffOrt have never entered either. ASL is the more prestigious league for sure, just like OSL vs. MSL from the Kespa days. KSL is likely to remain second-fiddle. They had that kooky winner picks business in season 1 and a weak player roster for season 2. But I hope more of the top tier players show up because I prefer the format of KSL.

On March 09 2019 22:51 TaardadAiel wrote:
How is it vastly superior, exactly?

On March 09 2019 12:31 onlystar wrote:
your tone is very humorous to me in this post..

''terrans can beat both zerg and protosses with a cool 55% winrate and stil call the map neutral''

(55% is still on the edge of a acceptable map imbalance as most players agree since 51/52/53 i just rare to hit on anymap..)

On March 09 2019 12:31 onlystar wrote:
so funny that you add the flash won part where you not able to judge the game for what it is why he won the map at all?
flash wentout on an all-in push to kill, everything to avoid a late game on the map since carriers are completely OP on that map and ripped him apart in litterly every practice match in late games.

On March 09 2019 12:31 onlystar wrote:
this is even more hilarious you set up a bo5 with at least 2 maps that are complete hell for terran and third world is used x2(even designed to give terran a horrable time Transisor /third world/) even the map makers/asl organisation has said the maps are designed to not have flash as another asl winner

On March 09 2019 12:31 onlystar wrote:
when you read these things so many things go trough my head like how you can look deeper into the statistics whats going on what is happing with the terran lineup flash/last/mind that where wrecking afreeca

On March 09 2019 12:31 onlystar wrote:
but hey something tells me this one is not able to listen to reasoning this one is lost

On March 10 2019 15:16 RWLabs wrote:

You asked for statistics and I give you statistics and now you whine about my tone? I'm sorry if I'm not here to coddle you.

I pointed out the fact that Flash lost to Snow on ASL 5 because that's really the epicenter of complaining about map imbalances in ASL 5, when in reality TvP isn't as broken as it first appears in ASL 5. And what are you on about? Terrans' ELO-based worst match-up on FS and CS is not 55%, it's 55.8%. And it goes as high as 57.8% against Protosses on CB. You'd know both of these if you actually looked at the data. A map where Terrans have no bad match-ups by at least a 5% margin is not a map imbalance? Yet you complain about Third World that only has a 2.3% discrepancy in TvP?


Careful lad, your bias is showing.


Why do you think I added it? If Flash lost on Transistor, then there would be an argument to be made that the map imbalance lost Flash that map as Transistor is the only map in the ASL 5 map pool that's indisputably broken for TvP. But he didn't lose, and that's the point.


So I don't know how many times I have to say this, so I'll bold it for you because you're clearly not even reading my posts.

TRANSISTOR WAS THE ONLY BROKEN MAP FOR TVP IN ASL 5.

The closest thing to a Protoss favoured map after Transistor was Third World, which is within your magical acceptabable 5% margin. And so what if the tournament was geared to kill Flash? The past two tournaments were geared to get a Zerg (specifically JD) to win and that failed too.


Are you actually insane or do you not understand how ELO works? The point of an ELO-predicted winrate is to predict which race is more likely to win at the same ELO. So it doesn't matter as much if Flash beat Tyson on Sparkle 4000 times, the winrate won't be shifted drastically in favour of T. Contrarily if Tyson beats Flash more than he loses, then the ELO-based prediction shifts sharply in favour of Protoss.


The greatest irony is that I'm the one arguing with statistics and facts and you're the one whining about my tone and not providing a shred of evidence for your claims. Complain about my tone if you want, but at least do me the decency of reading the statistics YOU asked for.

"every terran user is aware of the imbalance in third world so they will change the mid/early game completly. they will play
super aggresivly or heavy harasment that has to payoff to get a huge lead this the only reason they are able to still hit a decent % on that map"

On March 09 2019 01:24 BigFan wrote:
I think it's fine to keep one of FS and CB, but not both. Having at least one standard map among a lot of different ones isn't a bad idea imo. After all, we still get some really cool games on either map like that Light vs Rain FS game from last KSL.

On September 13 2019 20:54 FakeFin wrote:
As far as i know, there is a 2nd season planed for this year, so it should be announced very soon

On September 13 2019 20:45 BlueStar wrote:
Didn't want to open a new thread on this but wondering for several weeks now:
- is there another KSL season scheduled till the end of 2019?

On September 14 2019 02:08 Qikz wrote:


This tournaments over my man!