On September 14 2018 22:28 BlueStar wrote: What experienced player wants to say: - If you don't analyze things yourself you won't get much better. - If you solely watch Vods and get your knowledge from there, you won't get much better.
What newbies want: - More VODs with explanations!
It's kinda paragraph 22
This pretty much sums it up.
Videos are very vague and don't exactly explain why certain things are being build or why a specific set up of buildings (for example, terran almost always needing to block their entrance) are being set the way that they are.
On September 14 2018 22:28 BlueStar wrote: What experienced player wants to say: - If you don't analyze things yourself you won't get much better. - If you solely watch Vods and get your knowledge from there, you won't get much better.
What newbies want: - More VODs with explanations!
It's kinda paragraph 22
This pretty much sums it up.
Videos are very vague and don't exactly explain why certain things are being build or why a specific set up of buildings (for example, terran almost always needing to block their entrance) are being set the way that they are.
I partly disagree with both of your statements, that instruction (instead of personal analysis) can't make you much better, and that videos are vague and can't explain in detail. Disagree only partly, because obviously, you need personal analysis at some point to really let things sink and to realize your personal mistakes, and because a lot of videos are vague or don't offer the specific info that all the different noob-viewers need.
But in this day and age, where everyone else has 5, 10, 20 years of head-start to a noob, it is actually very important that they can read/watch a guide that explains them something quickly, instead of going through a years-long-journey of finding and analysing, always miles behind everyone else. You can shorten that process and of course you should shorten it as much as possible for all the information that can just be quickly grasped by getting instructed.
Like someone wrote above: If you don't know - and it's not explained in the game or even on Liquidpedia - that you can hold-position a worker (SCV on ramp vs lings e.g.) by selecting it together with a unit, you might struggle very long with holding 9-pools, and you might not even know what you have to analyse and look for on the forum... A well made video "TvZ how to hold 9 pool" could explain you in 5 minutes all the important things about that, including building-placement and the basic thought process about the goal of 9 pool and the following strategic situation, thus saving you hours or days of searching and blind personal analysis... who could argue against it if fresh-players today were given that short-cut to valid information?
edit: best proof that watching well made VoDs can save you a lot of time in the fields of search/analysis before you can start your personal practice: Stylish's Vods
this topic is very silly. it seems obvious to me that the reason there's a lack of this sort of content is because there's no demand or not need for it. how hard is it to start playing a game and record your thoughts on it with the third party perspective of a beginner in mind?
5, 10, 20 years matter nothing for the sake of skill and strategy comparison. if you were to get a 15 year old kid who has been playing super casually, and you get them to commit to it for a year, they will likely be better than that guy who has "played more than 10 years". i don't know how someone could be prideful about that at this point, as though years is a metric for translatable skill within the game. unless the guy with several years under his belt has committed for those ten years himself, there is really no telling whether or not he is better or has more potential than anyone else who can play the game.
the fact of the matter is, very few people create their own strategies anymore. you could pick up a style that has been working lately and work on it yourself to fuel some wins. once grasping the basics--which is what this thread was supposed to be about--you could very easily come to a good level with any chosen strategy in a very small amount of time. that is what those 5, 10, 20 years has afforded newer players. they are able to learn by watching how optimized play looks, and rote memory.
if you truly need to improve, you go in with the mentality that everything you do is mostly incorrect or needs correcting in some shape or form. you are molding your ideas, but they are all a bit foggy and indistinct. well now you focus down on each aspect and slowly figure out what is important and what is not. if you watch pro games you know that map pressure and good engagements with your units is important. it's important to have and idea of what your opponents next step will be. what units they can use to beat you in the foreseeable future, and what you need for units to combat it. then if something feels off, you go back and watch closely or have someone help you with it.
it's the whole idea of having expectations or personal bias with something in the game. could be a game idea, could be an opinion of yourself, anything. then you have those expectations broken, forcing you to change your stance or waking you up to the idea that you are wrong. usually all it takes is to lose, but seemingly many people don`t want even that to happen. it`s like starting to gamble, but wanting to avoid all the pitfalls of being a beginner. you can`t and you`ll make silly mistakes that you might not even notice for years and years, some things you really have to experience (more often for some) and set your expectations realistically.
i know as a more experienced player that all you need to get practicing is a game in mind. it`s like taking an outfit to a boutique and asking for help. you ask for help on a discord, or here by posting the game or one of your replays. you ask, ``who is this player? what is this build called? what is important to focus on in this style? what is currently strong against this style? i feel X but where did my game fall apart?" and you will receive help. that is your luxury for being part of a community. you can't just have the ideal videos laid out in playlist form, caters to someone like you, has perfect pacing in each video, and touches on the exact problems that you're faced with. what you're looking for is content that will help you flex your curiosity within the game, rather than guides for winning in a game you can barely play. this would all be demanding work, essentially for free, for a game in which outside of korea, nobody makes money doing.
Any newcomer should probably play the full campaing blind. The reason is to learn the basics of the game the way in any game: the campaign starts slow and lets you understand most of the basics of the game.
Any competitive game that has its own rules and specific skills are required in PvP will be a nightmare to a newcomer.
Think of any game that has a competitive scene: Counter strike, LoL, DOta 2, Heros of the storm, overwatch, starcraft.... If you tried to just GO IN and play you are gonna get destroyed.
Thats why there are tutorials, campaigns, vdeos on youtube... but it will still take a long time to get good at them.
most people dont remember this but if you would take your average B-A pladder ranked player today, and put them in 2005, they would most likely be close to the top in the world due to simple knowledge of the game.
If you are coming 5,10,20 years later than anyone else, you need sto srtat at the begining and try to catch up. The good news is that due to first person vods and streams you can learn at an increasing rate, but it will still take time.
On September 15 2018 23:35 iloveav wrote: most people dont remember this but if you would take your average B-A pladder ranked player today, and put them in 2005, they would most likely be close to the top in the world due to simple knowledge of the game.
Is this the state of Starcraft Remastered? Before analyzing the merit of making tutorials to help other people get into this beautiful game we instead get to have a discussion of whether or not it's possible to monetize that content outside of Korea?
High five to any content creator that steps out in the modern youtube-space to make videos for his passion rather than whatever is guaranteed to hit a minimum threshold of returns of viewers.
The thing about Brood War content is that high quality content is collected over the years and handed down like a family heirloom. Someone might not be watching your video and telling you how great it is this week, but months down the road some noob might just be loving every minute as he desperately tries to get a handle on BW.
On September 15 2018 23:35 iloveav wrote: Any newcomer should probably play the full campaing blind. The reason is to learn the basics of the game the way in any game: the campaign starts slow and lets you understand most of the basics of the game.
Any competitive game that has its own rules and specific skills are required in PvP will be a nightmare to a newcomer.
Think of any game that has a competitive scene: Counter strike, LoL, DOta 2, Heros of the storm, overwatch, starcraft.... If you tried to just GO IN and play you are gonna get destroyed.
Thats why there are tutorials, campaigns, vdeos on youtube... but it will still take a long time to get good at them.
most people dont remember this but if you would take your average B-A pladder ranked player today, and put them in 2005, they would most likely be close to the top in the world due to simple knowledge of the game.
If you are coming 5,10,20 years later than anyone else, you need sto srtat at the begining and try to catch up. The good news is that due to first person vods and streams you can learn at an increasing rate, but it will still take time.
Trying to catch up? You dont have to catch up, you simply have to play against people on your skill level
On September 16 2018 02:27 kaboombaby wrote: Is this the state of Starcraft Remastered? Before analyzing the merit of making tutorials to help other people get into this beautiful game we instead get to have a discussion of whether or not it's possible to monetize that content outside of Korea?
High five to any content creator that steps out in the modern youtube-space to make videos for his passion rather than whatever is guaranteed to hit a minimum threshold of returns of viewers.
The thing about Brood War content is that high quality content is collected over the years and handed down like a family heirloom. Someone might not be watching your video and telling you how great it is this week, but months down the road some noob might just be loving every minute as he desperately tries to get a handle on BW.
That's how I felt watching L_Master's noob tutorials. They were excellent in terms of content quality but they did not have many views at that time. Now the views count has increased a bit, but regardless they were very helpful to me to even get started with the game.
There is currently a female team league organized by firebathero and Piano with many 100ish APM and non-pro female players that can be relevant content for F players. Cadenzie is streaming it now.
On September 17 2018 05:04 Cryoc wrote: I watched some VODs from FBH and stumbled over this nice tutorial for starcraft beginners. It has English subtitles.
Wish i had seen this much earlier. Great content, thanks for linking it. Are there any other videos by him like this? I'm looking through his stuff but it's all korean
On September 12 2018 07:00 voltz_sc2 wrote: I think Jaedong has a video for F ranked players that someone gave English subtitles, on YouTube. I found that helpful to learn standard play.
I think this videos are a perfect example of what I said earlier, when I said that progamer strategies might not be the best for noobs, especially Jaedong's ZvP video. The opponent actually killed off Jaedong's natural and made it into his main, and with a four base economy behind it! Of course Jaedong still won, because he's a pro playing against some schmuck, but still. He only survived because he could massively out-micro the opponent whenever he needed to. An actual F-rank player, in that sort of situation, would have died 100%.
I liked Effort's videos a lot better, because they showed strategies that were actually practical for an F-rank player to execute. Like for ZvT he showed early +1 carapace zerglings, or a straight rush into ultras. Those are not pro strategies at all, but they work much better than expecting a noob to execute perfect muta micro to get the fastest possible defilers, which seems to be the basis of a lot of pro zerg ZvT strategies.
i think i can win all F rank ZvT almost just with zerglings. And i am not a good player. It is really not much about what strategy to use and what units to build... you just need to make them and use them.
The first biggest problems i have seen with noobs is that they do not know what to do with the inits. They are too passive and they just "wait to die".
Of course a better player can say sort of the same for me, but that is how i feel.
Sounds like me lol
I generally build units and have a pretty good macro but have no clue what to do and when i do make a move people seem to just counter one of my bases which mostly always losses me the game.
That is because you spend too much time trying to practice. Making probes/scvs non stop and spending is a good exercyse for someane that is at 1500mmr and wants to be at 1700. But for an F rank it is much different. You had firstly to understand the game. When you can attack. What your opponent is trying to do. What should you be doing ... it is much more about thinking than speed and execution.
I am really interest in knowing what is your apm... If it is more than 60-70 that means then the 50% of what you are doing is wrong. In this situation you really do not need to set up your hotkeys. You just need to understand what is happeining in the game.
It's not horribly bad since i come from a fastest map background. On average it's 200-250 APM. In "normal" maps that aren't fastest, it probably drops down to 150-180 and that might be from not knowing what to do once I have accumulated an army.
I feel as APM really doesn't mean anything when you have no idea what you're doing. Often get completely destroyed by players with less than 80 APM.
Then try to play with less APM. It means you will spend less time just clicking and more thinking.
On September 12 2018 07:00 voltz_sc2 wrote: I think Jaedong has a video for F ranked players that someone gave English subtitles, on YouTube. I found that helpful to learn standard play.
I think this videos are a perfect example of what I said earlier, when I said that progamer strategies might not be the best for noobs, especially Jaedong's ZvP video. The opponent actually killed off Jaedong's natural and made it into his main, and with a four base economy behind it! Of course Jaedong still won, because he's a pro playing against some schmuck, but still. He only survived because he could massively out-micro the opponent whenever he needed to. An actual F-rank player, in that sort of situation, would have died 100%.
I liked Effort's videos a lot better, because they showed strategies that were actually practical for an F-rank player to execute. Like for ZvT he showed early +1 carapace zerglings, or a straight rush into ultras. Those are not pro strategies at all, but they work much better than expecting a noob to execute perfect muta micro to get the fastest possible defilers, which seems to be the basis of a lot of pro zerg ZvT strategies.
i think i can win all F rank ZvT almost just with zerglings. And i am not a good player. It is really not much about what strategy to use and what units to build... you just need to make them and use them.
The first biggest problems i have seen with noobs is that they do not know what to do with the inits. They are too passive and they just "wait to die".
Of course a better player can say sort of the same for me, but that is how i feel.
Sounds like me lol
I generally build units and have a pretty good macro but have no clue what to do and when i do make a move people seem to just counter one of my bases which mostly always losses me the game.
That is because you spend too much time trying to practice. Making probes/scvs non stop and spending is a good exercyse for someane that is at 1500mmr and wants to be at 1700. But for an F rank it is much different. You had firstly to understand the game. When you can attack. What your opponent is trying to do. What should you be doing ... it is much more about thinking than speed and execution.
I am really interest in knowing what is your apm... If it is more than 60-70 that means then the 50% of what you are doing is wrong. In this situation you really do not need to set up your hotkeys. You just need to understand what is happeining in the game.
It's not horribly bad since i come from a fastest map background. On average it's 200-250 APM. In "normal" maps that aren't fastest, it probably drops down to 150-180 and that might be from not knowing what to do once I have accumulated an army.
I feel as APM really doesn't mean anything when you have no idea what you're doing. Often get completely destroyed by players with less than 80 APM.
Then try to play with less APM. It means you will spend less time just clicking and more thinking.
Like i said, it's just from lack of knowledge. That APM comes natural to me. I never understood how some players have anything less than that because even if i tried to purposely lower my APM, it's physically impossible.
Fastest and "normal" maps are played 2 completely different ways. Fastest, we don't use much of hot keys except for stuff like templar drops. Most of the actions are done manually where as you guys might be more mechanically involved.
What we might use to counter X unit on fastest isn't the same as what you guys use. For example, in TvP, vultres + mines and tanks are used vs protoss on your map where as we use medics/marine/tanks. Mines are never used, ever. Same goes for just about any other m/u. Zerg doesn't use mutas vs terran, they use hydras guardians and lurkers. Only time we use mutas is to main hunt. TvT is usually a camp fest, whoever can rush bcs//wraiths the quickest usually wins this exchange. PvP is usually just a templar drop battle. Pretty much, my point is, our gameplay is COMPLETELY different to the way you guys play, it's almost like im playing a different game.
What i have learned on fastest doesn't even remotely apply to "normal" maps.
With that being said, i think with some guidance, i could pick up these maps in about a week or 2.
On September 17 2018 05:04 Cryoc wrote: I watched some VODs from FBH and stumbled over this nice tutorial for starcraft beginners. It has English subtitles.
Wish i had seen this much earlier. Great content, thanks for linking it. Are there any other videos by him like this? I'm looking through his stuff but it's all korean
You can find all his VODs with English subs by searching "eng" in his youtube channel. I just clicked on some of those videos and watched the beginning to find out the topic. I saw maybe like 1-2 translated videos aimed at beginners when I skimped through some of these. Most videos seem to be weird builds and cheeses.
On September 12 2018 07:00 voltz_sc2 wrote: I think Jaedong has a video for F ranked players that someone gave English subtitles, on YouTube. I found that helpful to learn standard play.
I think this videos are a perfect example of what I said earlier, when I said that progamer strategies might not be the best for noobs, especially Jaedong's ZvP video. The opponent actually killed off Jaedong's natural and made it into his main, and with a four base economy behind it! Of course Jaedong still won, because he's a pro playing against some schmuck, but still. He only survived because he could massively out-micro the opponent whenever he needed to. An actual F-rank player, in that sort of situation, would have died 100%.
I liked Effort's videos a lot better, because they showed strategies that were actually practical for an F-rank player to execute. Like for ZvT he showed early +1 carapace zerglings, or a straight rush into ultras. Those are not pro strategies at all, but they work much better than expecting a noob to execute perfect muta micro to get the fastest possible defilers, which seems to be the basis of a lot of pro zerg ZvT strategies.
i think i can win all F rank ZvT almost just with zerglings. And i am not a good player. It is really not much about what strategy to use and what units to build... you just need to make them and use them.
The first biggest problems i have seen with noobs is that they do not know what to do with the inits. They are too passive and they just "wait to die".
Of course a better player can say sort of the same for me, but that is how i feel.
Sounds like me lol
I generally build units and have a pretty good macro but have no clue what to do and when i do make a move people seem to just counter one of my bases which mostly always losses me the game.
That is because you spend too much time trying to practice. Making probes/scvs non stop and spending is a good exercyse for someane that is at 1500mmr and wants to be at 1700. But for an F rank it is much different. You had firstly to understand the game. When you can attack. What your opponent is trying to do. What should you be doing ... it is much more about thinking than speed and execution.
I am really interest in knowing what is your apm... If it is more than 60-70 that means then the 50% of what you are doing is wrong. In this situation you really do not need to set up your hotkeys. You just need to understand what is happeining in the game.
It's not horribly bad since i come from a fastest map background. On average it's 200-250 APM. In "normal" maps that aren't fastest, it probably drops down to 150-180 and that might be from not knowing what to do once I have accumulated an army.
I feel as APM really doesn't mean anything when you have no idea what you're doing. Often get completely destroyed by players with less than 80 APM.
Then try to play with less APM. It means you will spend less time just clicking and more thinking.
Like i said, it's just from lack of knowledge. That APM comes natural to me. I never understood how some players have anything less than that because even if i tried to purposely lower my APM, it's physically impossible.
Fastest and "normal" maps are played 2 completely different ways. Fastest, we don't use much of hot keys except for stuff like templar drops. Most of the actions are done manually where as you guys might be more mechanically involved.
What we might use to counter X unit on fastest isn't the same as what you guys use. For example, in TvP, vultres + mines and tanks are used vs protoss on your map where as we use medics/marine/tanks. Mines are never used, ever. Same goes for just about any other m/u. Zerg doesn't use mutas vs terran, they use hydras guardians and lurkers. Only time we use mutas is to main hunt. TvT is usually a camp fest, whoever can rush bcs//wraiths the quickest usually wins this exchange. PvP is usually just a templar drop battle. Pretty much, my point is, our gameplay is COMPLETELY different to the way you guys play, it's almost like im playing a different game.
What i have learned on fastest doesn't even remotely apply to "normal" maps.
With that being said, i think with some guidance, i could pick up these maps in about a week or 2.
what I am saying is that your problems is not of gameplay and army composition. A good fastest knowlage and 200+ APM should make you at least D rank.
Or, in the worst case scenario, you can be F rank for 1-2 week after you start playing the normal maps.
But there is no way that you can be F rank with 200+ apm for more than that time and blame the wrong hotkey usage or bad army composition.
Regular BW is about getting more bases and spend your money. On what you spend it is less important.
On September 12 2018 07:00 voltz_sc2 wrote: I think Jaedong has a video for F ranked players that someone gave English subtitles, on YouTube. I found that helpful to learn standard play.
I think this videos are a perfect example of what I said earlier, when I said that progamer strategies might not be the best for noobs, especially Jaedong's ZvP video. The opponent actually killed off Jaedong's natural and made it into his main, and with a four base economy behind it! Of course Jaedong still won, because he's a pro playing against some schmuck, but still. He only survived because he could massively out-micro the opponent whenever he needed to. An actual F-rank player, in that sort of situation, would have died 100%.
I liked Effort's videos a lot better, because they showed strategies that were actually practical for an F-rank player to execute. Like for ZvT he showed early +1 carapace zerglings, or a straight rush into ultras. Those are not pro strategies at all, but they work much better than expecting a noob to execute perfect muta micro to get the fastest possible defilers, which seems to be the basis of a lot of pro zerg ZvT strategies.
i think i can win all F rank ZvT almost just with zerglings. And i am not a good player. It is really not much about what strategy to use and what units to build... you just need to make them and use them.
The first biggest problems i have seen with noobs is that they do not know what to do with the inits. They are too passive and they just "wait to die".
Of course a better player can say sort of the same for me, but that is how i feel.
Sounds like me lol
I generally build units and have a pretty good macro but have no clue what to do and when i do make a move people seem to just counter one of my bases which mostly always losses me the game.
That is because you spend too much time trying to practice. Making probes/scvs non stop and spending is a good exercyse for someane that is at 1500mmr and wants to be at 1700. But for an F rank it is much different. You had firstly to understand the game. When you can attack. What your opponent is trying to do. What should you be doing ... it is much more about thinking than speed and execution.
I am really interest in knowing what is your apm... If it is more than 60-70 that means then the 50% of what you are doing is wrong. In this situation you really do not need to set up your hotkeys. You just need to understand what is happeining in the game.
It's not horribly bad since i come from a fastest map background. On average it's 200-250 APM. In "normal" maps that aren't fastest, it probably drops down to 150-180 and that might be from not knowing what to do once I have accumulated an army.
I feel as APM really doesn't mean anything when you have no idea what you're doing. Often get completely destroyed by players with less than 80 APM.
Then try to play with less APM. It means you will spend less time just clicking and more thinking.
Like i said, it's just from lack of knowledge. That APM comes natural to me. I never understood how some players have anything less than that because even if i tried to purposely lower my APM, it's physically impossible.
Fastest and "normal" maps are played 2 completely different ways. Fastest, we don't use much of hot keys except for stuff like templar drops. Most of the actions are done manually where as you guys might be more mechanically involved.
What we might use to counter X unit on fastest isn't the same as what you guys use. For example, in TvP, vultres + mines and tanks are used vs protoss on your map where as we use medics/marine/tanks. Mines are never used, ever. Same goes for just about any other m/u. Zerg doesn't use mutas vs terran, they use hydras guardians and lurkers. Only time we use mutas is to main hunt. TvT is usually a camp fest, whoever can rush bcs//wraiths the quickest usually wins this exchange. PvP is usually just a templar drop battle. Pretty much, my point is, our gameplay is COMPLETELY different to the way you guys play, it's almost like im playing a different game.
What i have learned on fastest doesn't even remotely apply to "normal" maps.
With that being said, i think with some guidance, i could pick up these maps in about a week or 2.
what I am saying is that your problems is not of gameplay and army composition. A good fastest knowlage and 200+ APM should make you at least D rank.
Or, in the worst case scenario, you can be F rank for 1-2 week after you start playing the normal maps.
But there is no way that you can be F rank with 200+ apm for more than that time and blame the wrong hotkey usage or bad army composition.
Regular BW is about getting more bases and spend your money. On what you spend it is less important.
APM is not that difficult to get you do understand that right? It's literally just spam, Ive seen players with less than 100 defeat players with 200 + by a long stretch just from knowing how to play. We have a fastest league where this guy with about 80-100 APM was dominating players with over 250 APM with ease season after season after season in multiple leagues.
Knowing a good rotation between making units and building scvs and attacking is much better than spamming for the sake of spamming. And there was no one who knew this better than the person I'm talking about. Starcraft players often are under the impression that APM = skill level. Thats a terrible thing to teach new players.
On September 12 2018 07:00 voltz_sc2 wrote: I think Jaedong has a video for F ranked players that someone gave English subtitles, on YouTube. I found that helpful to learn standard play.
I think this videos are a perfect example of what I said earlier, when I said that progamer strategies might not be the best for noobs, especially Jaedong's ZvP video. The opponent actually killed off Jaedong's natural and made it into his main, and with a four base economy behind it! Of course Jaedong still won, because he's a pro playing against some schmuck, but still. He only survived because he could massively out-micro the opponent whenever he needed to. An actual F-rank player, in that sort of situation, would have died 100%.
I liked Effort's videos a lot better, because they showed strategies that were actually practical for an F-rank player to execute. Like for ZvT he showed early +1 carapace zerglings, or a straight rush into ultras. Those are not pro strategies at all, but they work much better than expecting a noob to execute perfect muta micro to get the fastest possible defilers, which seems to be the basis of a lot of pro zerg ZvT strategies.
i think i can win all F rank ZvT almost just with zerglings. And i am not a good player. It is really not much about what strategy to use and what units to build... you just need to make them and use them.
The first biggest problems i have seen with noobs is that they do not know what to do with the inits. They are too passive and they just "wait to die".
Of course a better player can say sort of the same for me, but that is how i feel.
Sounds like me lol
I generally build units and have a pretty good macro but have no clue what to do and when i do make a move people seem to just counter one of my bases which mostly always losses me the game.
That is because you spend too much time trying to practice. Making probes/scvs non stop and spending is a good exercyse for someane that is at 1500mmr and wants to be at 1700. But for an F rank it is much different. You had firstly to understand the game. When you can attack. What your opponent is trying to do. What should you be doing ... it is much more about thinking than speed and execution.
I am really interest in knowing what is your apm... If it is more than 60-70 that means then the 50% of what you are doing is wrong. In this situation you really do not need to set up your hotkeys. You just need to understand what is happeining in the game.
It's not horribly bad since i come from a fastest map background. On average it's 200-250 APM. In "normal" maps that aren't fastest, it probably drops down to 150-180 and that might be from not knowing what to do once I have accumulated an army.
I feel as APM really doesn't mean anything when you have no idea what you're doing. Often get completely destroyed by players with less than 80 APM.
Then try to play with less APM. It means you will spend less time just clicking and more thinking.
Like i said, it's just from lack of knowledge. That APM comes natural to me. I never understood how some players have anything less than that because even if i tried to purposely lower my APM, it's physically impossible.
Fastest and "normal" maps are played 2 completely different ways. Fastest, we don't use much of hot keys except for stuff like templar drops. Most of the actions are done manually where as you guys might be more mechanically involved.
What we might use to counter X unit on fastest isn't the same as what you guys use. For example, in TvP, vultres + mines and tanks are used vs protoss on your map where as we use medics/marine/tanks. Mines are never used, ever. Same goes for just about any other m/u. Zerg doesn't use mutas vs terran, they use hydras guardians and lurkers. Only time we use mutas is to main hunt. TvT is usually a camp fest, whoever can rush bcs//wraiths the quickest usually wins this exchange. PvP is usually just a templar drop battle. Pretty much, my point is, our gameplay is COMPLETELY different to the way you guys play, it's almost like im playing a different game.
What i have learned on fastest doesn't even remotely apply to "normal" maps.
With that being said, i think with some guidance, i could pick up these maps in about a week or 2.
what I am saying is that your problems is not of gameplay and army composition. A good fastest knowlage and 200+ APM should make you at least D rank.
Or, in the worst case scenario, you can be F rank for 1-2 week after you start playing the normal maps.
But there is no way that you can be F rank with 200+ apm for more than that time and blame the wrong hotkey usage or bad army composition.
Regular BW is about getting more bases and spend your money. On what you spend it is less important.
APM is not that difficult to get you do understand that right? It's literally just spam, Ive seen players with less than 100 defeat players with 200 + by a long stretch just from knowing how to play. We have a fastest league where this guy with about 80-100 APM was dominating players with over 250 APM with ease season after season after season in multiple leagues.
Knowing a good rotation between making units and building scvs and attacking is much better than spamming for the sake of spamming. And there was no one who knew this better than the person I'm talking about. Starcraft players often are under the impression that APM = skill level. Thats a terrible thing to teach new players.
Pretty sure the implication and assumption is that with 200 APM you have at least around 100eAPM. Obviously no one is talking about people who send a scouting probe on hotkey 1 then hold down the 1 key to hit 1000 APM for the first 2 minutes then it averages out to 200, or a person who just does 123123123123123123123123123 over and over without actually doing anything.
I agree that telling people to "just get 200 APM" is bad advice, but if you notice that no one actually said that. You're fighting ghosts. ajmbek is saying that with knowledge of unit interactions and basic fundamentals from Fastest, along with decent mechanics, you shouldn't be stuck in F. That's it.
I think this videos are a perfect example of what I said earlier, when I said that progamer strategies might not be the best for noobs, especially Jaedong's ZvP video. The opponent actually killed off Jaedong's natural and made it into his main, and with a four base economy behind it! Of course Jaedong still won, because he's a pro playing against some schmuck, but still. He only survived because he could massively out-micro the opponent whenever he needed to. An actual F-rank player, in that sort of situation, would have died 100%.
I liked Effort's videos a lot better, because they showed strategies that were actually practical for an F-rank player to execute. Like for ZvT he showed early +1 carapace zerglings, or a straight rush into ultras. Those are not pro strategies at all, but they work much better than expecting a noob to execute perfect muta micro to get the fastest possible defilers, which seems to be the basis of a lot of pro zerg ZvT strategies.
i think i can win all F rank ZvT almost just with zerglings. And i am not a good player. It is really not much about what strategy to use and what units to build... you just need to make them and use them.
The first biggest problems i have seen with noobs is that they do not know what to do with the inits. They are too passive and they just "wait to die".
Of course a better player can say sort of the same for me, but that is how i feel.
Sounds like me lol
I generally build units and have a pretty good macro but have no clue what to do and when i do make a move people seem to just counter one of my bases which mostly always losses me the game.
That is because you spend too much time trying to practice. Making probes/scvs non stop and spending is a good exercyse for someane that is at 1500mmr and wants to be at 1700. But for an F rank it is much different. You had firstly to understand the game. When you can attack. What your opponent is trying to do. What should you be doing ... it is much more about thinking than speed and execution.
I am really interest in knowing what is your apm... If it is more than 60-70 that means then the 50% of what you are doing is wrong. In this situation you really do not need to set up your hotkeys. You just need to understand what is happeining in the game.
It's not horribly bad since i come from a fastest map background. On average it's 200-250 APM. In "normal" maps that aren't fastest, it probably drops down to 150-180 and that might be from not knowing what to do once I have accumulated an army.
I feel as APM really doesn't mean anything when you have no idea what you're doing. Often get completely destroyed by players with less than 80 APM.
Then try to play with less APM. It means you will spend less time just clicking and more thinking.
Like i said, it's just from lack of knowledge. That APM comes natural to me. I never understood how some players have anything less than that because even if i tried to purposely lower my APM, it's physically impossible.
Fastest and "normal" maps are played 2 completely different ways. Fastest, we don't use much of hot keys except for stuff like templar drops. Most of the actions are done manually where as you guys might be more mechanically involved.
What we might use to counter X unit on fastest isn't the same as what you guys use. For example, in TvP, vultres + mines and tanks are used vs protoss on your map where as we use medics/marine/tanks. Mines are never used, ever. Same goes for just about any other m/u. Zerg doesn't use mutas vs terran, they use hydras guardians and lurkers. Only time we use mutas is to main hunt. TvT is usually a camp fest, whoever can rush bcs//wraiths the quickest usually wins this exchange. PvP is usually just a templar drop battle. Pretty much, my point is, our gameplay is COMPLETELY different to the way you guys play, it's almost like im playing a different game.
What i have learned on fastest doesn't even remotely apply to "normal" maps.
With that being said, i think with some guidance, i could pick up these maps in about a week or 2.
what I am saying is that your problems is not of gameplay and army composition. A good fastest knowlage and 200+ APM should make you at least D rank.
Or, in the worst case scenario, you can be F rank for 1-2 week after you start playing the normal maps.
But there is no way that you can be F rank with 200+ apm for more than that time and blame the wrong hotkey usage or bad army composition.
Regular BW is about getting more bases and spend your money. On what you spend it is less important.
APM is not that difficult to get you do understand that right? It's literally just spam, Ive seen players with less than 100 defeat players with 200 + by a long stretch just from knowing how to play. We have a fastest league where this guy with about 80-100 APM was dominating players with over 250 APM with ease season after season after season in multiple leagues.
Knowing a good rotation between making units and building scvs and attacking is much better than spamming for the sake of spamming. And there was no one who knew this better than the person I'm talking about. Starcraft players often are under the impression that APM = skill level. Thats a terrible thing to teach new players.
Pretty sure the implication and assumption is that with 200 APM you have at least around 100eAPM. Obviously no one is talking about people who send a scouting probe on hotkey 1 then hold down the 1 key to hit 1000 APM for the first 2 minutes then it averages out to 200, or a person who just does 123123123123123123123123123 over and over without actually doing anything.
I agree that telling people to "just get 200 APM" is bad advice, but if you notice that no one actually said that. You're fighting ghosts. ajmbek is saying that with knowledge of unit interactions and basic fundamentals from Fastest, along with decent mechanics, you shouldn't be stuck in F. That's it.
Any new educational videos since then? Last thing I remember were JY shows (which were awesome and in depth, but not enough of them). What about now?
It's new meta for TvZ (goliaths), ZvT - 2 hatch, ZvP 9-7-3-4, etc. Nobody explains this stuff in depth now, Korean videos are not always accessible, we don't have Day9 or JY shows anymore. I think there's still a gap for this type of content in Brood War, we have a lot of great tournaments but not much of educational videos on some specific topic. LMaster is also back, but no more educational videos for noobs. Just want to remind that demand is still there! Some people lack the game knowledge still.
EPT
firebathero 
