EPTLarva / ZOTAC / my "anger" - Page 2
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Scuzzzzy
3 Posts
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Hawk2
United States229 Posts
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future. | ||
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todespolka
221 Posts
1. Nobody wants to be humiliated in front of the world and in real life. Only idiots would say that they like to be humiliated. 2. Normally you say before a show starts what kind of a show it will be. If you want to make humiliating jokes, all players have to agree to that. This is called respect! 3. We don't make jokes about someone who is inferior. This is like making jokes about africans starvation while they are starving. This is called civility! 4. As a grow up you are able to take humiliation and go on with your life. I don't believe legend has a problem with that. 5. Not every BM is humiliating. Dancing workers aren't a problem, it is part of the game. It becomes a problem, if the humiliation doesn't end or if it becomes personal or if it is seen by a lot of people and so on. What is ok and what not depends on culture (or sport culture). At last if you still don't understand the problem, go on the street and humiliate everyone. Let us see how long it takes until you get punched in the face. Additional: Other sports have rules too. Written or unwritten. And in some sports humiliation is part of the experience, but the participants know it beforehand. EDIT: I heard that the match was between a chinese and a korean? Respect is very important in chinese and korean culture. The relations between china and korea aren't perfect, hence small things are already humiliating. | ||
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Synesius
13 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:41 Chrh wrote: who wasn't mad, anyone who was actually there to watch good games was mad. Entire finals was a giant waste of time. i had a great time watching the rest of the tourney. Especially the NA / SA one. All that build up then giant let down of a guy who is way better then anyone else there just trolling. No other pro would have done that. I just lost what little respect for larva i had when he did it. Its one thing to disrespect a opponent of equal skill. Its quite another to do it the way it was done. the finals was not going to be a good game either way, at least larva made it entertaining | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3046 Posts
And in some sports humiliation is part of the experience, but the participants know it beforehand. Participants don't know all the BM that might come from a match in any sports, just anticipation that something can happen depending on the seriousness of the competition + the competition that they're playing for. i.e. Fighting Games: Yes, due to how community accepted banter/some BM that can be entertaining as 'ok' rather than downplaying them. But they don't know that its going to happen, they know it MAY happen (because within rules). | ||
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ChewbroCColi
Denmark108 Posts
We plan on doing more events like this so I am going to get really used to hearing how people think I am mad or not funny or need the attention etc.. been happening since SOTG and will continue. I'm still just gonna keep showing up and making the majority of the people happy I am so happy there will be more events like this in the future. I laughed so much during the event and I especially thought you were insanely funny iNcontroL. The combination of the four of you is just so hilarious. Thanks for the great content! | ||
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todespolka
221 Posts
On December 05 2017 09:57 supernovamaniac wrote: Participants don't know all the BM that might come from a match in any sports, just anticipation that something can happen depending on the seriousness of the competition + the competition that they're playing for. i.e. Fighting Games: Yes, due to how community accepted banter/some BM that can be entertaining as 'ok' rather than downplaying them. But they don't know that its going to happen, they know it MAY happen (because within rules). You don't have to know what will come. Some examples are enough. Also fighting game players have seen other events, they know that people don't take these humiliations serious. As you said the usual banter is in our culture not a problem! It depends on the degree and culture (a korean should know better, their culture is based on respect). Your argument: It would be very complicated if you had to know every little detail in life. Can you only drive a car if you have driven the car on every street and place on the planet? The human mind is excellent at knowing what is allowed and what not by a few examples. | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3046 Posts
On December 05 2017 10:10 todespolka wrote: You don't have to know what will come. Some examples are enough. Also fighting game players have seen other events, they know that people don't take these humiliations serious. Your argument: It would be very complicated if you had to know every little detail in life. Can you only drive a car if you have driven the car on every street and place on the planet? The human mind is excellent at knowing what is allowed and what not by a few examples. Others taking these humiliations as 'ok' because it was seen before doesn't mean that every BM that happens at these events are deemed 'ok' especially when some people take it far, and cause fights/physical interactions (and sometimes, consequences). The particular sentence I highlighted assumes that everyone knows what'll happen if they participate in a particular sport/tournament/etc. Which is never the case (and this is why we have general guidelines, or "rules"). | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context. I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator. On December 05 2017 08:58 Hawk2 wrote: Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak. Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future. I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes." | ||
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TargetNSA
1 Post
"Thank God someone else notices this shit. He always gets mad and salty when he isn't the center of attention or is outperformed. I'm amazed I don't see this brought up more. It's fucking childish and beyond obvious. " deal with your attention issues man without the drama of 20 pages. Silently and on the road to self improvement. User was banned for this post. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10087 Posts
On December 05 2017 10:42 TargetNSA wrote: To incontrol from random reddit: "Thank God someone else notices this shit. He always gets mad and salty when he isn't the center of attention or is outperformed. I'm amazed I don't see this brought up more. It's fucking childish and beyond obvious. " deal with your attention issues man without the drama of 20 pages. Silently and on the road to self improvement. Incontrol has been a mainstay in our community since the early 2000s. You really think a random redditor is going to tell incontrol what his problems are? Cmon dude, be smarter than that. | ||
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DoctorHot
United States42 Posts
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flashcat
Canada3 Posts
Starcraft is a gentlemen's game, be respect to your opponent is the very first thing you learn when you play this game. Don't make this game full of clowns by encouraging ppl like Larva | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 05 2017 10:59 DoctorHot wrote: Geoff, I'm a longtime fan, and I just wanted to say that I'm proud of how much better you've gotten at this kind of thing. You're so much smarter and you've learned so much over the last 10 years. You're really great, keep it up! Thank you <3 | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 05 2017 10:45 FlaShFTW wrote: Incontrol has been a mainstay in our community since the early 2000s. You really think a random redditor is going to tell incontrol what his problems are? Cmon dude, be smarter than that. This is a guy who made some accounts on reddit (and now here) and said the same thing.. he spams it. His account was deleted a few hours ago for this on reddit. Thank you for the kind words but he is just a troll  | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 05 2017 10:21 dsyxelic wrote: Personally I don't think it was malicious or anything, especially now that I know the context. However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective. Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context. I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator. I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes." Hey man. My jokes were about as bland and innocuous as they get. Want to tell me which jokes you think were obviously over the line and I need to "rethink" ? I also did in my post say I was tired and I said my jokes aren't always funny.. I also talk about how I thought I was trolling too much so I stopped talk as much.. like, what do you want? Nothing you said here is new or not what I said already. It's like you think someone can cast for 22 hours and be perfect the entire time. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10087 Posts
On December 05 2017 11:01 flashcat wrote: "It wasn't in the rules that Larva couldn't act that way and he is SO good that he CAN and still win. " LOL? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Starcraft is a gentlemen's game, be respect to your opponent is the very first thing you learn when you play this game. Don't make this game full of clowns by encouraging ppl like Larva I'm sorry but WHAT? Gentlemen's game? Go play golf if you're looking for a gentlemen's game, Esports are fair game for anything. Look at Firebathero for god sake. He literally got his popularity from his BM. What about people like Much after his pylon heart. People manner hatch/cc/nex all the time in games. Gentlemen's game? Your interpretation is so off. | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
On December 05 2017 11:07 iNcontroL wrote: Hey man. My jokes were about as bland and innocuous as they get. Want to tell me which jokes you think were obviously over the line and I need to "rethink" ? I also did in my post say I was tired and I said my jokes aren't always funny.. I also talk about how I thought I was trolling too much so I stopped talk as much.. like, what do you want? Nothing you said here is new or not what I said already. It's like you think someone can cast for 22 hours and be perfect the entire time. My point wasn't that the jokes were over the line and that you need to rethink the content. That was not what I was getting at all. My concern wasn't the content of your jokes, but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. If you're going to make a deadpan joke like that about asking his weight/weight of his thighs, you have to A) Take into account that your translator is not a professional and the harder the joke is to get for people who speak your language, the harder it will be for someone who doesn't and needs it translated. As someone who speaks both languages, his translations were obviously amateur level and he clearly was not at the level where he could convey those type of deadpan jokes well. I'm sure everyone knew that he was not a professional translator. I know you acknowledged that the nature of your jokes has been criticized for a while by people who don't know you well and that it's nothing new - that's why it's probably a good idea to be a bit more aware of how badly it can be taken when a translator and foreign language is involved. B) Giving context is important well. If you just throw out "Can I ask him how much he thinks his thigh weighs" with 0 context to the interviewee, obviously he will be confused and won't understand the joke. It's basically an inside joke without the interviewee being let in on it. This applies to both to people who speak your language and those who don't, but obviously even more so to the latter. No one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. But there's a difference between completely absolving yourself from responsibility and just owning up to the fact that the conditions were bad so you as a result weren't at your best. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o This comes off as more of casting blame at everything besides your own (translation, not understanding your humor, etc). These are all to a degree true, but making a post clarifying about how you weren't angry or upset and then not acknowledging at all how people can understandably perceive you as so only help to further that initial impression you might have given. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end (though of course still acknowledge what things out of your control could have gone better like you did here), and then wrap it up from there. It's not like every single person who thought you were upset is out to get you or anything, some were legitimate first impressions. All my friends who saw the reddit clip of Larva playing with his foot all said that they thought one of the casters was upset/salty. And these are guys who have no idea who you are so there's no bias there. You can ignore me if you want but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as another guy who is pretty impartial to all this and just want to continue to see high quality casting/production in BW. | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States642 Posts
Other than that, I think it's on Zotac's shoulder to maintain their brand image. So Larva is not the guy to blame, whoever the organizers are. Or people who put up the event is to blame if anything that went wrong. So please, Larva can do whatever he likes, the way he is. If that's his brand, he is surely working hard to keep maintaining it. Although I would not agree with what he is doing, obviously I am not a Larva fanboy. xD | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 05 2017 11:43 dsyxelic wrote: My point wasn't that the jokes were over the line and that you need to rethink the content. That was not what I was getting at all. My concern wasn't the content of your jokes, but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. If you're going to make a deadpan joke like that about asking his weight/weight of his thighs, you have to A) Take into account that your translator is not a professional and the harder the joke is to get for people who speak your language, the harder it will be for someone who doesn't and needs it translated. As someone who speaks both languages, his translations were obviously amateur level and he clearly was not at the level where he could convey those type of deadpan jokes well. I'm sure everyone knew that he was not a professional translator. I know you acknowledged that the nature of your jokes has been criticized for a while by people who don't know you well and that it's nothing new - that's why it's probably a good idea to be a bit more aware of how badly it can be taken when a translator and foreign language is involved. B) Giving context is important well. If you just throw out "Can I ask him how much he thinks his thigh weighs" with 0 context to the interviewee, obviously he will be confused and won't understand the joke. It's basically an inside joke without the interviewee being let in on it. This applies to both to people who speak your language and those who don't, but obviously even more so to the latter. No one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. But there's a difference between completely absolving yourself from responsibility and just owning up to the fact that the conditions were bad so you as a result weren't at your best. This comes off as more of casting blame at everything besides your own (translation, not understanding your humor, etc). These are all to a degree true, but making a post clarifying about how you weren't angry or upset and then not acknowledging at all how people can understandably perceive you as so only help to further that initial impression you might have given. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end (though of course still acknowledge what things out of your control could have gone better like you did here), and then wrap it up from there. It's not like every single person who thought you were upset is out to get you or anything, some were legitimate first impressions. All my friends who saw the reddit clip of Larva playing with his foot all said that they thought one of the casters was upset/salty. And these are guys who have no idea who you are so there's no bias there. You can ignore me if you want but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as another guy who is pretty impartial to all this and just want to continue to see high quality casting/production in BW. You give a lot of advice for a guy who has never been in the position you think you are able to advise on mate. This information on the interpreter is post event lol. I had no idea who he was or how good he was. I also had no idea how good his translating was as I don't have a running translator rank in my robotic eye from sky net. also your whole "let me tell you how to handle yourself in the public eye" routine is incredibly dumb. You have no idea how to conduct yourself in a position like mine and the arrogance to presume as much is baffling. just stop >_< | ||
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