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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Hello,
Going to make this post here for most visibility since this thing is taking a life of it's own and I am tired of reading individual posts where people are just plowing forward with uninformed opinions that are trying to maximize drama.
Myself, Artosis, Day9 and Tasteless did a 2 day event with B-roll being filmed the day before. We casted for a total of 22 hours with day 1 being 13 and day 2 being 9. That is a really really long day with 4 guys constantly talking and mostly getting 5-10 min bathroom / lunch breaks.
Zotac took great care of us but that is a LONG day. What ends up happening is sometimes we run a dry. I make a LOT of jokes and I :"troll" I like to think I am somewhere in the ballpark of 85% funny but that means over the course of that time I am going to be a bit too mean, just dumb or not funny etc. Also, I am not everyone's cup of tea and I've grown to accept that! I love StarCraft and hanging with my buds and being casual and having fun WAS what we were asked to do so I did that. Not telling you you HAVE to enjoy my style or whatever but that is the backdrop.
I think the event went mostly well so I won't go over all of it but lets get to the tail end of day 2.
I was really really tired. Was I mad at all at any point? Nope. I had my Seahawks live feed scrolling on my phone and I had decided I was trolling (Artosis) too much so I backed off and tried to give some more air to the fellas. During Larva's match I was not impressed with the level of trolling he was doing but it only meant I was rooting for Legend to win or at least put up a fight. Don't think I said or did anything that indicated I was "mad" -- anyone reading and saying stuff like "Nah man, look at his face! The way he says words.." it's this kind of shit I have gotten for years since SOTG. People WANT me to be mad at someone or some kind of drama.. it has as of yet never actually happened the way people want (or at all really).
During the interview I asked him silly questions to try and get the discussion away from "man legend is bad and you made fun of him" so I asked him about his thigh cuz I for some reason during the cast estimated it to weigh 17 lbs.. wtf. I also asked him about researching more troll techniques and that was about it. I did it all deadpan because I do that 96% of the time. That.. is literally it. Afterwards we went out and got drinks with the blizz guys and casters. Had some laughs and I went to my hotel room at about 10pm because I was getting picked up for my flight at 5 am and needed to wake up at 4am or so.
Larva told his chat he was upset that I was trolling him and he felt like I was mad. He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
The event was fun but it was small and casual with a lot of joking around. This drama is dumb mostly. It wasn't in the rules that Larva couldn't act that way and he is SO good that he CAN and still win. Had he lost while trolling we'd all have doubled down on making him feel bad about it but instead he backed up his BM and walked the walk. I sense a lot of bored BW fans and some odd racial tension between korea and china (I don't understand it myself obviously) but I didn't want my name to keep popping up without people hearing my side I guess?
At the end of the day if you think I am lying and I was just really mad or something that is on you. I can only tell you what I think and hope for the best.
We plan on doing more events like this so I am going to get really used to hearing how people think I am mad or not funny or need the attention etc.. been happening since SOTG and will continue. I'm still just gonna keep showing up and making the majority of the people happy 
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Thanks for posting this to clear things up as much as possible. I thought it was an awesome event with a ton of hilarious moments. I'm glad that you're (hopefully) giving people 1 less thing to make drama about.
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Thanks for the statement Geoff, I do have to admit that I was one that assumed your salt especially during the post-game interview. From the outside looking in, it definitely seemed like you were being pretty passive-aggressive. I guess I'm just not familiar enough with your style of humor to have understood right away, but I appreciate you clearing things up. keep on keeping on, friend.
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people are idiots, what else is new. I loved the casting, just great listening to you guys all talking about old school stuff and joking around
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Hey,
Why do we get "VIP only allowed" tournaments in SC:R?
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Think the translation was bit off the second day. The translating for first day was amazing and almost perfect, but second day was often hit and miss (and sarcasm got poorly crossed I noticed- came off as aggressive after ENG->KR instead of sarcastic/joking). Same with him translating back
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Rewatching the videos, I can easily see why people who don't know you so well could see it as you being mad. It didn't come across super well, especially in the clip that's getting posted around the most. Just an unfortunate situation.
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On December 05 2017 04:25 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Rewatching the videos, I can easily see why people who don't know you so well could see it as you being mad. It didn't come across super well, especially in the clip that's getting posted around the most. Just an unfortunate situation.
This, but I think once incontrol posted his thoughts it should have died - but I guess nothing dies on the internet, especially not if the false story is more compelling than the truth.
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larva is such a weird guy considering he is on more than a couple of afreeca rage compilations when he lost in ""dumb"" games.. i wonder how he would feel if a better zerg like JD or effort pulled a stunt like he did during a broadcasted match.
also, not a fan of the tournament as a whole, but that has nothing to do with the casters.
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People got way more excited about this stuff than I would have expected. I hope the vitriol dies down and we can have another event.
I had a positive experience watching this weekend and I'm thankful to everyone who participated!
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Thanks for clearing it up, you all did an awesome job and your casting / sense of humor was on point, I did really feel like his trolling did upset you but now I understand, thanks for the post.
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I'm not sure people care that much about what you did overall in the cast. I personnally enjoyed all the jabs you were throwing at Artosis regarding the easyness of playing Terran, but what people, i believe, didn't get, is why you had to act as such a "party popper" once Larva started trolling.
As early as game 1 you weren't "having it" (as you said), that's your right, but why exactly ? You would have preferred the boredom of a 3 - 0 stomp with nothing to talk about ?
I do agree with you that people totally overreact about your supposed state of "madness" during the event, but in any case, you tried over and over to break the fun the others had, and it's hard to really understand why. If you know anything about Larva, you know that the guy doesn't take himself seriously and does that kind of stuff in a cheeky/joyful way, not as a mean to humiliate someone he dislikes.
Very simple explanation as to why people thought you were mad afterwards... the rest of what you did during the cast is a non-issue here.
(Also, i'm pretty sure Larva isn't really mad at you either, lot of stuff is lost in translation both ways imo.)
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
I didn't see whatever the heck happened live as it was in the wee hours of the morning in the UK and I was sleeping ready for work this morning, but from what I've seen the whole thing looks blown entirely out of proportion. You certainly just seemed like you usually are, deadpan and trolly 60% of the time and that's fine, that's your thing!
People just seemed to take that the wrong way given the situation for some reason :s
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36937 Posts
There are several threads floating around BW General that are all pertaining to the same topic. Let's keep it all in one thread for the sake of coherence.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51450 Posts
Keep on trucking Incontrol! ignore the haters and keep being you! Good on you for making a statement to shut up the silly people and i agree 100% with you!
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36937 Posts
Upon further thought, iNcontroL's thread has been unlocked.
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United States10081 Posts
Appreciate the clarification post from incontrol. I've casted 4 hours straight and get tired, the fact that he did 22 hours in 2 days is impressive and absolutely understandable that he would want to rest a bit, especially with a 5am flight the next day.
And idk why people are getting so upset at incontrol, even if he was upset at Larva. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on what Larva did. No reason to witch hunt. Keep trucking incontrol.
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On December 05 2017 08:23 FlaShFTW wrote:
Appreciate the clarification post from incontrol. I've casted 4 hours straight and get tired, the fact that he did 22 hours in 2 days is impressive and absolutely understandable that he would want to rest a bit, especially with a 5am flight the next day.
And idk why people are getting so upset at incontrol, even if he was upset at Larva. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on what Larva did. No reason to witch hunt. Keep trucking incontrol.
Was about to say pretty much this exact same thing, so I'll just give this a thumbs up and brief head nod.
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who wasn't mad, anyone who was actually there to watch good games was mad. Entire finals was a giant waste of time. i had a great time watching the rest of the tourney. Especially the NA / SA one. All that build up then giant let down of a guy who is way better then anyone else there just trolling. No other pro would have done that. I just lost what little respect for larva i had when he did it. Its one thing to disrespect a opponent of equal skill. Its quite another to do it the way it was done.
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On December 05 2017 08:41 Chrh wrote:
who wasn't mad, anyone who was actually there to watch good games was mad. Entire finals was a giant waste of time. i had a great time watching the rest of the tourney. Especially the NA / SA one. All that build up then giant let down of a guy who is way better then anyone else there just trolling. No other pro would have done that. I just lost what little respect for larva i had when he did it. Its one thing to disrespect a opponent of equal skill. Its quite another to do it the way it was done.
Well it comes down to whether you're a Larva fan or not. If you're not, you're going to get really boring games where the player you are rooting for ie. Legend gets stomped on, if you are, you're going to have a great time in the way larva stomps his opponent. It was just a show match, not a national competition. The real winner is Michael anyway.
Could it have gone better? Yes I think absolutely yes, if he had somehow involved Legend or something in that case. He could have played it straight and decimated him in a boring obvious fashion. Legend himself said he was there for fun since he was no longer a professional.
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Just wanna say this event was fantastic.
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Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak.
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future.
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About Legends humiliation:
1. Nobody wants to be humiliated in front of the world and in real life. Only idiots would say that they like to be humiliated.
2. Normally you say before a show starts what kind of a show it will be. If you want to make humiliating jokes, all players have to agree to that. This is called respect!
3. We don't make jokes about someone who is inferior. This is like making jokes about africans starvation while they are starving. This is called civility!
4. As a grow up you are able to take humiliation and go on with your life. I don't believe legend has a problem with that.
5. Not every BM is humiliating. Dancing workers aren't a problem, it is part of the game. It becomes a problem, if the humiliation doesn't end or if it becomes personal or if it is seen by a lot of people and so on. What is ok and what not depends on culture (or sport culture).
At last if you still don't understand the problem, go on the street and humiliate everyone. Let us see how long it takes until you get punched in the face.
Additional:
Other sports have rules too. Written or unwritten. And in some sports humiliation is part of the experience, but the participants know it beforehand.
EDIT:
I heard that the match was between a chinese and a korean? Respect is very important in chinese and korean culture. The relations between china and korea aren't perfect, hence small things are already humiliating.
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On December 05 2017 08:41 Chrh wrote:
who wasn't mad, anyone who was actually there to watch good games was mad. Entire finals was a giant waste of time. i had a great time watching the rest of the tourney. Especially the NA / SA one. All that build up then giant let down of a guy who is way better then anyone else there just trolling. No other pro would have done that. I just lost what little respect for larva i had when he did it. Its one thing to disrespect a opponent of equal skill. Its quite another to do it the way it was done.
the finals was not going to be a good game either way, at least larva made it entertaining
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And in some sports humiliation is part of the experience, but the participants know it beforehand.
Participants don't know all the BM that might come from a match in any sports, just anticipation that something can happen depending on the seriousness of the competition + the competition that they're playing for.
i.e. Fighting Games: Yes, due to how community accepted banter/some BM that can be entertaining as 'ok' rather than downplaying them. But they don't know that its going to happen, they know it MAY happen (because within rules).
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We plan on doing more events like this so I am going to get really used to hearing how people think I am mad or not funny or need the attention etc.. been happening since SOTG and will continue. I'm still just gonna keep showing up and making the majority of the people happy
I am so happy there will be more events like this in the future.
I laughed so much during the event and I especially thought you were insanely funny iNcontroL. The combination of the four of you is just so hilarious. Thanks for the great content!
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On December 05 2017 09:57 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +And in some sports humiliation is part of the experience, but the participants know it beforehand. Participants don't know all the BM that might come from a match in any sports, just anticipation that something can happen depending on the seriousness of the competition + the competition that they're playing for. i.e. Fighting Games: Yes, due to how community accepted banter/some BM that can be entertaining as 'ok' rather than downplaying them. But they don't know that its going to happen, they know it MAY happen (because within rules).
You don't have to know what will come. Some examples are enough. Also fighting game players have seen other events, they know that people don't take these humiliations serious.
As you said the usual banter is in our culture not a problem! It depends on the degree and culture (a korean should know better, their culture is based on respect).
Your argument:
It would be very complicated if you had to know every little detail in life. Can you only drive a car if you have driven the car on every street and place on the planet? The human mind is excellent at knowing what is allowed and what not by a few examples.
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On December 05 2017 10:10 todespolka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 09:57 supernovamaniac wrote:And in some sports humiliation is part of the experience, but the participants know it beforehand. Participants don't know all the BM that might come from a match in any sports, just anticipation that something can happen depending on the seriousness of the competition + the competition that they're playing for. i.e. Fighting Games: Yes, due to how community accepted banter/some BM that can be entertaining as 'ok' rather than downplaying them. But they don't know that its going to happen, they know it MAY happen (because within rules). You don't have to know what will come. Some examples are enough. Also fighting game players have seen other events, they know that people don't take these humiliations serious. Your argument: It would be very complicated if you had to know every little detail in life. Can you only drive a car if you have driven the car on every street and place on the planet? The human mind is excellent at knowing what is allowed and what not by a few examples.
Others taking these humiliations as 'ok' because it was seen before doesn't mean that every BM that happens at these events are deemed 'ok' especially when some people take it far, and cause fights/physical interactions (and sometimes, consequences).
The particular sentence I highlighted assumes that everyone knows what'll happen if they participate in a particular sport/tournament/etc. Which is never the case (and this is why we have general guidelines, or "rules").
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Personally I don't think it was malicious or anything, especially now that I know the context.
However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air.
Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective.
He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context.
I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator.
On December 05 2017 08:58 Hawk2 wrote:
Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak.
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future.
I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes."
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To incontrol from random reddit:
"Thank God someone else notices this shit. He always gets mad and salty when he isn't the center of attention or is outperformed. I'm amazed I don't see this brought up more. It's fucking childish and beyond obvious. "
deal with your attention issues man without the drama of 20 pages. Silently and on the road to self improvement.
User was banned for this post.
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United States10081 Posts
On December 05 2017 10:42 TargetNSA wrote:
To incontrol from random reddit:
"Thank God someone else notices this shit. He always gets mad and salty when he isn't the center of attention or is outperformed. I'm amazed I don't see this brought up more. It's fucking childish and beyond obvious. "
deal with your attention issues man without the drama of 20 pages. Silently and on the road to self improvement.
Incontrol has been a mainstay in our community since the early 2000s. You really think a random redditor is going to tell incontrol what his problems are? Cmon dude, be smarter than that.
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Geoff, I'm a longtime fan, and I just wanted to say that I'm proud of how much better you've gotten at this kind of thing. You're so much smarter and you've learned so much over the last 10 years. You're really great, keep it up!
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"It wasn't in the rules that Larva couldn't act that way and he is SO good that he CAN and still win. " LOL? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Starcraft is a gentlemen's game, be respect to your opponent is the very first thing you learn when you play this game. Don't make this game full of clowns by encouraging ppl like Larva
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 05 2017 10:59 DoctorHot wrote:
Geoff, I'm a longtime fan, and I just wanted to say that I'm proud of how much better you've gotten at this kind of thing. You're so much smarter and you've learned so much over the last 10 years. You're really great, keep it up!
Thank you <3
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 05 2017 10:45 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 10:42 TargetNSA wrote:
To incontrol from random reddit:
"Thank God someone else notices this shit. He always gets mad and salty when he isn't the center of attention or is outperformed. I'm amazed I don't see this brought up more. It's fucking childish and beyond obvious. "
deal with your attention issues man without the drama of 20 pages. Silently and on the road to self improvement. Incontrol has been a mainstay in our community since the early 2000s. You really think a random redditor is going to tell incontrol what his problems are? Cmon dude, be smarter than that.
This is a guy who made some accounts on reddit (and now here) and said the same thing.. he spams it. His account was deleted a few hours ago for this on reddit.
Thank you for the kind words but he is just a troll 
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 05 2017 10:21 dsyxelic wrote:Personally I don't think it was malicious or anything, especially now that I know the context. However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective. Show nested quote +He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context. I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator. Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 08:58 Hawk2 wrote:
Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak.
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future. I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes."
Hey man. My jokes were about as bland and innocuous as they get. Want to tell me which jokes you think were obviously over the line and I need to "rethink" ? I also did in my post say I was tired and I said my jokes aren't always funny.. I also talk about how I thought I was trolling too much so I stopped talk as much.. like, what do you want? Nothing you said here is new or not what I said already. It's like you think someone can cast for 22 hours and be perfect the entire time.
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United States10081 Posts
On December 05 2017 11:01 flashcat wrote:
"It wasn't in the rules that Larva couldn't act that way and he is SO good that he CAN and still win. " LOL? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Starcraft is a gentlemen's game, be respect to your opponent is the very first thing you learn when you play this game. Don't make this game full of clowns by encouraging ppl like Larva
I'm sorry but WHAT? Gentlemen's game? Go play golf if you're looking for a gentlemen's game, Esports are fair game for anything. Look at Firebathero for god sake. He literally got his popularity from his BM. What about people like Much after his pylon heart. People manner hatch/cc/nex all the time in games. Gentlemen's game? Your interpretation is so off.
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On December 05 2017 11:07 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 10:21 dsyxelic wrote:Personally I don't think it was malicious or anything, especially now that I know the context. However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context. I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator. On December 05 2017 08:58 Hawk2 wrote:
Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak.
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future. I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes." Hey man. My jokes were about as bland and innocuous as they get. Want to tell me which jokes you think were obviously over the line and I need to "rethink" ? I also did in my post say I was tired and I said my jokes aren't always funny.. I also talk about how I thought I was trolling too much so I stopped talk as much.. like, what do you want? Nothing you said here is new or not what I said already. It's like you think someone can cast for 22 hours and be perfect the entire time.
My point wasn't that the jokes were over the line and that you need to rethink the content. That was not what I was getting at all.
My concern wasn't the content of your jokes, but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad.
If you're going to make a deadpan joke like that about asking his weight/weight of his thighs, you have to
A) Take into account that your translator is not a professional and the harder the joke is to get for people who speak your language, the harder it will be for someone who doesn't and needs it translated. As someone who speaks both languages, his translations were obviously amateur level and he clearly was not at the level where he could convey those type of deadpan jokes well. I'm sure everyone knew that he was not a professional translator. I know you acknowledged that the nature of your jokes has been criticized for a while by people who don't know you well and that it's nothing new - that's why it's probably a good idea to be a bit more aware of how badly it can be taken when a translator and foreign language is involved.
B) Giving context is important well. If you just throw out "Can I ask him how much he thinks his thigh weighs" with 0 context to the interviewee, obviously he will be confused and won't understand the joke. It's basically an inside joke without the interviewee being let in on it. This applies to both to people who speak your language and those who don't, but obviously even more so to the latter.
No one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. But there's a difference between completely absolving yourself from responsibility and just owning up to the fact that the conditions were bad so you as a result weren't at your best.
He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
This comes off as more of casting blame at everything besides your own (translation, not understanding your humor, etc). These are all to a degree true, but making a post clarifying about how you weren't angry or upset and then not acknowledging at all how people can understandably perceive you as so only help to further that initial impression you might have given.
It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end (though of course still acknowledge what things out of your control could have gone better like you did here), and then wrap it up from there.
It's not like every single person who thought you were upset is out to get you or anything, some were legitimate first impressions. All my friends who saw the reddit clip of Larva playing with his foot all said that they thought one of the casters was upset/salty. And these are guys who have no idea who you are so there's no bias there. You can ignore me if you want but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as another guy who is pretty impartial to all this and just want to continue to see high quality casting/production in BW.
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Well, regardless of what had happened. The only thing matters if Zotac perceive this event as a event that damages their brand. Then good luck having Zotac supporting SC:R in the future.
Other than that, I think it's on Zotac's shoulder to maintain their brand image. So Larva is not the guy to blame, whoever the organizers are. Or people who put up the event is to blame if anything that went wrong.
So please, Larva can do whatever he likes, the way he is. If that's his brand, he is surely working hard to keep maintaining it. Although I would not agree with what he is doing, obviously I am not a Larva fanboy. xD
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 05 2017 11:43 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 11:07 iNcontroL wrote:On December 05 2017 10:21 dsyxelic wrote:Personally I don't think it was malicious or anything, especially now that I know the context. However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context. I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator. On December 05 2017 08:58 Hawk2 wrote:
Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak.
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future. I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes." Hey man. My jokes were about as bland and innocuous as they get. Want to tell me which jokes you think were obviously over the line and I need to "rethink" ? I also did in my post say I was tired and I said my jokes aren't always funny.. I also talk about how I thought I was trolling too much so I stopped talk as much.. like, what do you want? Nothing you said here is new or not what I said already. It's like you think someone can cast for 22 hours and be perfect the entire time. My point wasn't that the jokes were over the line and that you need to rethink the content. That was not what I was getting at all. My concern wasn't the content of your jokes, but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. If you're going to make a deadpan joke like that about asking his weight/weight of his thighs, you have to A) Take into account that your translator is not a professional and the harder the joke is to get for people who speak your language, the harder it will be for someone who doesn't and needs it translated. As someone who speaks both languages, his translations were obviously amateur level and he clearly was not at the level where he could convey those type of deadpan jokes well. I'm sure everyone knew that he was not a professional translator. I know you acknowledged that the nature of your jokes has been criticized for a while by people who don't know you well and that it's nothing new - that's why it's probably a good idea to be a bit more aware of how badly it can be taken when a translator and foreign language is involved. B) Giving context is important well. If you just throw out "Can I ask him how much he thinks his thigh weighs" with 0 context to the interviewee, obviously he will be confused and won't understand the joke. It's basically an inside joke without the interviewee being let in on it. This applies to both to people who speak your language and those who don't, but obviously even more so to the latter. No one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. But there's a difference between completely absolving yourself from responsibility and just owning up to the fact that the conditions were bad so you as a result weren't at your best. Show nested quote +He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o This comes off as more of casting blame at everything besides your own (translation, not understanding your humor, etc). These are all to a degree true, but making a post clarifying about how you weren't angry or upset and then not acknowledging at all how people can understandably perceive you as so only help to further that initial impression you might have given. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end (though of course still acknowledge what things out of your control could have gone better like you did here), and then wrap it up from there. It's not like every single person who thought you were upset is out to get you or anything, some were legitimate first impressions. All my friends who saw the reddit clip of Larva playing with his foot all said that they thought one of the casters was upset/salty. And these are guys who have no idea who you are so there's no bias there. You can ignore me if you want but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as another guy who is pretty impartial to all this and just want to continue to see high quality casting/production in BW.
You give a lot of advice for a guy who has never been in the position you think you are able to advise on mate. This information on the interpreter is post event lol. I had no idea who he was or how good he was. I also had no idea how good his translating was as I don't have a running translator rank in my robotic eye from sky net.
also your whole "let me tell you how to handle yourself in the public eye" routine is incredibly dumb. You have no idea how to conduct yourself in a position like mine and the arrogance to presume as much is baffling.
just stop >_<
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It was obvious to see you were mad. Why else would you defend yourself? Day9 didn't have much to say, Artosis was still laughing his ass off and goofing around. You could've just relaxed. Larva felt it, Twitch chat felt it, so basically everyone who watched felt it. If Artosis or Day9 haven't felt it, that means literally nothing, since they will understandably have your back.
You've been passive-aggressive ever since, most people just don't know because they've just been here since SC2 when you were already on track building up a new personality of "85% funny". There's no getting around your true character though, not making this forum your social media platform you share with your girlfriend or to promote ridiculous TV formats you sign up to. You're attention-whoring and this thread is just another of your narcissistic outbreaks.
You could do like Idra did and go full on out with your real personality, People would flock to your stream in droves to watch you rage, smash some shit or just bash some noobs 1-handed while curling with the other one (this would be funny btw, just a tip).
Yeah, I don't like you, never have. But, I have to say, you were rightfully mad. While it was hilarious what Larva did, it showed no respect and everyone who has played BW in its heyday knows, it was all about being mannered, taking defeat with dignity and victory with humility. Yeah, everyone bragged, everyone BMed, I don't have to tell 88)iNcontroL[Media] about it, right? But when it came to the actual competition, shit was serious. Shit like that belongs in casual games on stream, not in a tournament, even if you know you're heads above your competition. I understand you but at the same time I felt the urge to break the circle-jerk and tell you my opinion.
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On December 05 2017 13:20 Dead9 wrote:
'let me tell you how you felt during the cast'
'you could have handled that differently'
'oh by the way i don't like you'
lol
Have you watched the whole thing? As soon as Larva started trolling you could tell by his voice alone he was mad about it. Not to mention the whole bodylanguage in the interview. Also his post just before mine, love the condescending way he talks to people making their point way more rationally than I care to, at the same time being mad about lack of sportsmanship. Spot the hypocrite.
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Why Larva is not using his Dick to play? Since it's a show match, go show your dick.
If I was Legend, I will show some shit in Larva's keyboard, and I will pie against Larva. It's totally fine right?
Since it's a show match.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Just gonna ignore that wall of dumb Up there
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On December 05 2017 12:53 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 11:43 dsyxelic wrote:On December 05 2017 11:07 iNcontroL wrote:On December 05 2017 10:21 dsyxelic wrote:Personally I don't think it was malicious or anything, especially now that I know the context. However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context. I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator. On December 05 2017 08:58 Hawk2 wrote:
Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak.
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future. I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes." Hey man. My jokes were about as bland and innocuous as they get. Want to tell me which jokes you think were obviously over the line and I need to "rethink" ? I also did in my post say I was tired and I said my jokes aren't always funny.. I also talk about how I thought I was trolling too much so I stopped talk as much.. like, what do you want? Nothing you said here is new or not what I said already. It's like you think someone can cast for 22 hours and be perfect the entire time. My point wasn't that the jokes were over the line and that you need to rethink the content. That was not what I was getting at all. My concern wasn't the content of your jokes, but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. If you're going to make a deadpan joke like that about asking his weight/weight of his thighs, you have to A) Take into account that your translator is not a professional and the harder the joke is to get for people who speak your language, the harder it will be for someone who doesn't and needs it translated. As someone who speaks both languages, his translations were obviously amateur level and he clearly was not at the level where he could convey those type of deadpan jokes well. I'm sure everyone knew that he was not a professional translator. I know you acknowledged that the nature of your jokes has been criticized for a while by people who don't know you well and that it's nothing new - that's why it's probably a good idea to be a bit more aware of how badly it can be taken when a translator and foreign language is involved. B) Giving context is important well. If you just throw out "Can I ask him how much he thinks his thigh weighs" with 0 context to the interviewee, obviously he will be confused and won't understand the joke. It's basically an inside joke without the interviewee being let in on it. This applies to both to people who speak your language and those who don't, but obviously even more so to the latter. No one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. But there's a difference between completely absolving yourself from responsibility and just owning up to the fact that the conditions were bad so you as a result weren't at your best. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o This comes off as more of casting blame at everything besides your own (translation, not understanding your humor, etc). These are all to a degree true, but making a post clarifying about how you weren't angry or upset and then not acknowledging at all how people can understandably perceive you as so only help to further that initial impression you might have given. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end (though of course still acknowledge what things out of your control could have gone better like you did here), and then wrap it up from there. It's not like every single person who thought you were upset is out to get you or anything, some were legitimate first impressions. All my friends who saw the reddit clip of Larva playing with his foot all said that they thought one of the casters was upset/salty. And these are guys who have no idea who you are so there's no bias there. You can ignore me if you want but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as another guy who is pretty impartial to all this and just want to continue to see high quality casting/production in BW. You give a lot of advice for a guy who has never been in the position you think you are able to advise on mate. This information on the interpreter is post event lol. I had no idea who he was or how good he was. I also had no idea how good his translating was as I don't have a running translator rank in my robotic eye from sky net. also your whole "let me tell you how to handle yourself in the public eye" routine is incredibly dumb. You have no idea how to conduct yourself in a position like mine and the arrogance to presume as much is baffling. just stop >_<
I don't either, but it's clear as day he's no professional lol. Especially when we've (I at least) never seen him translating in the scene before and it's not like BW is exactly in the position to splurge on professional and extremely talented translators that we have not yet seen before. Edited cause its irrelevant to the point anyways. My advice was a general one where if we don't know the level of the translator we assume he is not skilled enough to convey deadpan jokes that rely heavily on delivery.
As someone who has done a decent number of translator work (korean/english), I hope you at least think I have the authority in that regard to inform you that you would have been by far the most difficult person on that particular cast to translate for because of how little context you give to your jokes and questions. Especially when near the end when you were visibly tired and out of it. Like I get it, it was a long day and I doubt you're always that out of it, but that's just how it was.
I mean taking my advice is your prerogative, but if you're going to dismiss it simply because "lol I don't know who you are" and then project your arrogance onto me, that's your loss.
You seem to really know how to handle yourself in the public eye really well given your current responses and your constant criticism. It's equally as baffling for me how you think you're doing a good job in that department. But I guess it doesn't really matter since the 'public eye' doesn't really matter in the BW scene right now unless you do something disgustingly egregious. So you do you, it doesn't matter anyways I guess nor do I care to really convince you anymore if you're this set on your ways.
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On December 05 2017 13:13 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
It was obvious to see you were mad. Why else would you defend yourself? Day9 didn't have much to say, Artosis was still laughing his ass off and goofing around. You could've just relaxed. Larva felt it, Twitch chat felt it, so basically everyone who watched felt it. If Artosis or Day9 haven't felt it, that means literally nothing, since they will understandably have your back.
You've been passive-aggressive ever since, most people just don't know because they've just been here since SC2 when you were already on track building up a new personality of "85% funny". There's no getting around your true character though, not making this forum your social media platform you share with your girlfriend or to promote ridiculous TV formats you sign up to. You're attention-whoring and this thread is just another of your narcissistic outbreaks.
You could do like Idra did and go full on out with your real personality, People would flock to your stream in droves to watch you rage, smash some shit or just bash some noobs 1-handed while curling with the other one (this would be funny btw, just a tip).
Yeah, I don't like you, never have. But, I have to say, you were rightfully mad. While it was hilarious what Larva did, it showed no respect and everyone who has played BW in its heyday knows, it was all about being mannered, taking defeat with dignity and victory with humility. Yeah, everyone bragged, everyone BMed, I don't have to tell 88)iNcontroL[Media] about it, right? But when it came to the actual competition, shit was serious. Shit like that belongs in casual games on stream, not in a tournament, even if you know you're heads above your competition. I understand you but at the same time I felt the urge to break the circle-jerk and tell you my opinion.
just stop, you are being an idiot
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I honestly thought it was one of the most entertaining events I’ve watched in a long time. Did some of the jokes fall flat? Ya. Guess what, mine do too all the damn time and Ive never tried to make entertaining content for more than 10 minuets let alone over 10 hours.
I don’t know why we expect casters to be more than human, of course they are going to get tired at the end of log ass casts. I don’t know why that’s a surprise to anyone. Am I the only one who has ever tuned in for a best of 69 or a 24+ hour stream? Personally, it makes casters seem more relatable that not everyone is picture fucking perfect and says all the right things at all the right times. Nobody does. If you want that, program a robot. Me? I’ll stick with my human casters.
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On December 05 2017 13:26 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 13:20 Dead9 wrote:
'let me tell you how you felt during the cast'
'you could have handled that differently'
'oh by the way i don't like you'
lol Have you watched the whole thing? As soon as Larva started trolling you could tell by his voice alone he was mad about it. Not to mention the whole bodylanguage in the interview. Also his post just before mine, love the condescending way he talks to people making their point way more rationally than I care to, at the same time being mad about lack of sportsmanship. Spot the hypocrite.
man i edited out my post within a minute
you really don't see a problem with assuming someone else's thoughts and motives?
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On December 05 2017 13:52 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 12:53 iNcontroL wrote:On December 05 2017 11:43 dsyxelic wrote:On December 05 2017 11:07 iNcontroL wrote:On December 05 2017 10:21 dsyxelic wrote:Personally I don't think it was malicious or anything, especially now that I know the context. However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context. I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator. On December 05 2017 08:58 Hawk2 wrote:
Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak.
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future. I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes." Hey man. My jokes were about as bland and innocuous as they get. Want to tell me which jokes you think were obviously over the line and I need to "rethink" ? I also did in my post say I was tired and I said my jokes aren't always funny.. I also talk about how I thought I was trolling too much so I stopped talk as much.. like, what do you want? Nothing you said here is new or not what I said already. It's like you think someone can cast for 22 hours and be perfect the entire time. My point wasn't that the jokes were over the line and that you need to rethink the content. That was not what I was getting at all. My concern wasn't the content of your jokes, but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. If you're going to make a deadpan joke like that about asking his weight/weight of his thighs, you have to A) Take into account that your translator is not a professional and the harder the joke is to get for people who speak your language, the harder it will be for someone who doesn't and needs it translated. As someone who speaks both languages, his translations were obviously amateur level and he clearly was not at the level where he could convey those type of deadpan jokes well. I'm sure everyone knew that he was not a professional translator. I know you acknowledged that the nature of your jokes has been criticized for a while by people who don't know you well and that it's nothing new - that's why it's probably a good idea to be a bit more aware of how badly it can be taken when a translator and foreign language is involved. B) Giving context is important well. If you just throw out "Can I ask him how much he thinks his thigh weighs" with 0 context to the interviewee, obviously he will be confused and won't understand the joke. It's basically an inside joke without the interviewee being let in on it. This applies to both to people who speak your language and those who don't, but obviously even more so to the latter. No one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. But there's a difference between completely absolving yourself from responsibility and just owning up to the fact that the conditions were bad so you as a result weren't at your best. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o This comes off as more of casting blame at everything besides your own (translation, not understanding your humor, etc). These are all to a degree true, but making a post clarifying about how you weren't angry or upset and then not acknowledging at all how people can understandably perceive you as so only help to further that initial impression you might have given. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end (though of course still acknowledge what things out of your control could have gone better like you did here), and then wrap it up from there. It's not like every single person who thought you were upset is out to get you or anything, some were legitimate first impressions. All my friends who saw the reddit clip of Larva playing with his foot all said that they thought one of the casters was upset/salty. And these are guys who have no idea who you are so there's no bias there. You can ignore me if you want but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as another guy who is pretty impartial to all this and just want to continue to see high quality casting/production in BW. You give a lot of advice for a guy who has never been in the position you think you are able to advise on mate. This information on the interpreter is post event lol. I had no idea who he was or how good he was. I also had no idea how good his translating was as I don't have a running translator rank in my robotic eye from sky net. also your whole "let me tell you how to handle yourself in the public eye" routine is incredibly dumb. You have no idea how to conduct yourself in a position like mine and the arrogance to presume as much is baffling. just stop >_< I don't either, but it's clear as day he's no professional lol. Especially when we've (I at least) never seen him translating in the scene before and it's not like BW is exactly in the position to splurge on professional and extremely talented translators that we have not yet seen before. Edited cause its irrelevant to the point anyways. My advice was a general one where if we don't know the level of the translator we assume he is not skilled enough to convey deadpan jokes that rely heavily on delivery. As someone who has done a decent number of translator work (korean/english), I hope you at least think I have the authority in that regard to inform you that you would have been by far the most difficult person on that particular cast to translate for because of how little context you give to your jokes and questions. Especially when near the end when you were visibly tired and out of it. Like I get it, it was a long day and I doubt you're always that out of it, but that's just how it was. I mean taking my advice is your prerogative, but if you're going to dismiss it simply because "lol I don't know who you are" and then project your arrogance onto me, that's your loss. You seem to really know how to handle yourself in the public eye really well given your current responses and your constant criticism. It's equally as baffling for me how you think you're doing a good job in that department. But I guess it doesn't really matter since the 'public eye' doesn't really matter in the BW scene right now unless you do something disgustingly egregious. So you do you, it doesn't matter anyways I guess nor do I care to really convince you anymore if you're this set on your ways.
I think that the problem with your advice is that it is condescending and ultimately subjective, personally not a combination I am fond of. When you speak of subjectives as truths/absolutes it'll rarely bode well with people - much less people who are likely far more experienced than you are and make a living in the area of expertise you're claiming absolute knowledge on.
Add to the mix a few poorly disguised cheap shots and you have a recipe for not getting through to just about anyone, at least not to me or all of my friends who read your comment, btw all my friends don't know you so they are impartial and they still thought your comment was super dense, their words not mine.
If your goal was to offer advice and get through to iNcontroL with it (as you implied in your retort) you appear to have failed miserably, seeing as how your failure is an absolute given that iNcontroL is the only relevant variable at play, I would argue that someone could write to you, with a far more solid basis than you wrote to him, a guide on how to offer advice starting with something like:
My concern wasn't the content of advice, but recognizing that poor delivery of that advice can come off bad.
If you're going to give advice like that to someone who likely has a lot more experience conducting themselves in public than you, you have to :
a) b) c)
As published in the most recent "bible of how to give advice"
But hey, no one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. So as a result weren't at your best. I think it's fine to be passive aggressive / condescending but if you're trying to offer advice that you intend for an individual to take, maybe ease a bit on it. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end. Anyway man, take my advice if you want but if you don't it's your loss, glhf.
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This was one of the best tournament casts in forever. Reminds me of the old home story cups. It was like a 2 hours state of the game episode with great game play and commentary. Thanks for being a part of it!
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On December 05 2017 14:32 ROOTCatZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 13:52 dsyxelic wrote:On December 05 2017 12:53 iNcontroL wrote:On December 05 2017 11:43 dsyxelic wrote:On December 05 2017 11:07 iNcontroL wrote:On December 05 2017 10:21 dsyxelic wrote:Personally I don't think it was malicious or anything, especially now that I know the context. However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context. I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator. On December 05 2017 08:58 Hawk2 wrote:
Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak.
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future. I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes." Hey man. My jokes were about as bland and innocuous as they get. Want to tell me which jokes you think were obviously over the line and I need to "rethink" ? I also did in my post say I was tired and I said my jokes aren't always funny.. I also talk about how I thought I was trolling too much so I stopped talk as much.. like, what do you want? Nothing you said here is new or not what I said already. It's like you think someone can cast for 22 hours and be perfect the entire time. My point wasn't that the jokes were over the line and that you need to rethink the content. That was not what I was getting at all. My concern wasn't the content of your jokes, but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. If you're going to make a deadpan joke like that about asking his weight/weight of his thighs, you have to A) Take into account that your translator is not a professional and the harder the joke is to get for people who speak your language, the harder it will be for someone who doesn't and needs it translated. As someone who speaks both languages, his translations were obviously amateur level and he clearly was not at the level where he could convey those type of deadpan jokes well. I'm sure everyone knew that he was not a professional translator. I know you acknowledged that the nature of your jokes has been criticized for a while by people who don't know you well and that it's nothing new - that's why it's probably a good idea to be a bit more aware of how badly it can be taken when a translator and foreign language is involved. B) Giving context is important well. If you just throw out "Can I ask him how much he thinks his thigh weighs" with 0 context to the interviewee, obviously he will be confused and won't understand the joke. It's basically an inside joke without the interviewee being let in on it. This applies to both to people who speak your language and those who don't, but obviously even more so to the latter. No one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. But there's a difference between completely absolving yourself from responsibility and just owning up to the fact that the conditions were bad so you as a result weren't at your best. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o This comes off as more of casting blame at everything besides your own (translation, not understanding your humor, etc). These are all to a degree true, but making a post clarifying about how you weren't angry or upset and then not acknowledging at all how people can understandably perceive you as so only help to further that initial impression you might have given. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end (though of course still acknowledge what things out of your control could have gone better like you did here), and then wrap it up from there. It's not like every single person who thought you were upset is out to get you or anything, some were legitimate first impressions. All my friends who saw the reddit clip of Larva playing with his foot all said that they thought one of the casters was upset/salty. And these are guys who have no idea who you are so there's no bias there. You can ignore me if you want but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as another guy who is pretty impartial to all this and just want to continue to see high quality casting/production in BW. You give a lot of advice for a guy who has never been in the position you think you are able to advise on mate. This information on the interpreter is post event lol. I had no idea who he was or how good he was. I also had no idea how good his translating was as I don't have a running translator rank in my robotic eye from sky net. also your whole "let me tell you how to handle yourself in the public eye" routine is incredibly dumb. You have no idea how to conduct yourself in a position like mine and the arrogance to presume as much is baffling. just stop >_< I don't either, but it's clear as day he's no professional lol. Especially when we've (I at least) never seen him translating in the scene before and it's not like BW is exactly in the position to splurge on professional and extremely talented translators that we have not yet seen before. Edited cause its irrelevant to the point anyways. My advice was a general one where if we don't know the level of the translator we assume he is not skilled enough to convey deadpan jokes that rely heavily on delivery. As someone who has done a decent number of translator work (korean/english), I hope you at least think I have the authority in that regard to inform you that you would have been by far the most difficult person on that particular cast to translate for because of how little context you give to your jokes and questions. Especially when near the end when you were visibly tired and out of it. Like I get it, it was a long day and I doubt you're always that out of it, but that's just how it was. I mean taking my advice is your prerogative, but if you're going to dismiss it simply because "lol I don't know who you are" and then project your arrogance onto me, that's your loss. You seem to really know how to handle yourself in the public eye really well given your current responses and your constant criticism. It's equally as baffling for me how you think you're doing a good job in that department. But I guess it doesn't really matter since the 'public eye' doesn't really matter in the BW scene right now unless you do something disgustingly egregious. So you do you, it doesn't matter anyways I guess nor do I care to really convince you anymore if you're this set on your ways. I think that the problem with your advice is that it is condescending and ultimately subjective, when you speak of subjectives as truths/absolutes it'll rarely bode well with people - much less people who are likely far more experienced than you are and make a living in the area of expertise you're claiming absolute knowledge on. Add to the mix a few disguised cheap shots and you have a recipe for not getting through to just about anyone, at least not "me or all my friends" who read your comment and thought you were being a bit of a dick, btw all my friends don't know you so they are impartial. If your goal was to offer advice and get through to iNcontroL with it, as you implied, you appear to have failed miserably, seeing as how your failure is an absolute given that iNcontroL is the only variable at play, I would argue that someone could write to you with a more solid basis than you wrote to him, a guide on how to offer advice starting with something like: My concern wasn't the content of advice, but recognizing that poor delivery of that advice can come off bad. If you're going to give advice like that to someone who likely has a lot more experience conducting themselves in public than you, you have to : a) b) c) As published in the most recent "bible of how to give advice" But hey, no one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. So as a result weren't at your best. I think it's fine to be passive aggressive / condescending but if you're trying to offer advice that you intend for an individual to take, maybe ease a bit on it. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end.
I get that you parodied my post, but assuming that the intention was to get across that I could have worded my post better, than I accept that.
I'm not immune to mistakes and I definitely could have done a better job in wording my advice. I have no problem with people pointing that out to me.
However even if a parody I highly disagree with this in particular:
Add to the mix a few disguised cheap shots and you have a recipe for not getting through to just about anyone, at least not "me or all my friends" who read your comment and thought you were being a bit of a dick, btw all my friends don't know you so they are impartial.
If your goal was to offer advice and get through to iNcontroL with it, as you implied, you appear to have failed miserably, seeing as how your failure is an absolute given that iNcontroL is the only variable at play
Really don't think I took cheap shots and there was 0 intention in doing so. Feel free to point out where you think I took cheap shots though since I'd rather not come off that way in the future when posting especially when I'm not intending to do so. Thanks.
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On December 05 2017 14:38 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 14:32 ROOTCatZ wrote:On December 05 2017 13:52 dsyxelic wrote:On December 05 2017 12:53 iNcontroL wrote:On December 05 2017 11:43 dsyxelic wrote:On December 05 2017 11:07 iNcontroL wrote:On December 05 2017 10:21 dsyxelic wrote:Personally I don't think it was malicious or anything, especially now that I know the context. However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context. I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator. On December 05 2017 08:58 Hawk2 wrote:
Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak.
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future. I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes." Hey man. My jokes were about as bland and innocuous as they get. Want to tell me which jokes you think were obviously over the line and I need to "rethink" ? I also did in my post say I was tired and I said my jokes aren't always funny.. I also talk about how I thought I was trolling too much so I stopped talk as much.. like, what do you want? Nothing you said here is new or not what I said already. It's like you think someone can cast for 22 hours and be perfect the entire time. My point wasn't that the jokes were over the line and that you need to rethink the content. That was not what I was getting at all. My concern wasn't the content of your jokes, but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. If you're going to make a deadpan joke like that about asking his weight/weight of his thighs, you have to A) Take into account that your translator is not a professional and the harder the joke is to get for people who speak your language, the harder it will be for someone who doesn't and needs it translated. As someone who speaks both languages, his translations were obviously amateur level and he clearly was not at the level where he could convey those type of deadpan jokes well. I'm sure everyone knew that he was not a professional translator. I know you acknowledged that the nature of your jokes has been criticized for a while by people who don't know you well and that it's nothing new - that's why it's probably a good idea to be a bit more aware of how badly it can be taken when a translator and foreign language is involved. B) Giving context is important well. If you just throw out "Can I ask him how much he thinks his thigh weighs" with 0 context to the interviewee, obviously he will be confused and won't understand the joke. It's basically an inside joke without the interviewee being let in on it. This applies to both to people who speak your language and those who don't, but obviously even more so to the latter. No one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. But there's a difference between completely absolving yourself from responsibility and just owning up to the fact that the conditions were bad so you as a result weren't at your best. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o This comes off as more of casting blame at everything besides your own (translation, not understanding your humor, etc). These are all to a degree true, but making a post clarifying about how you weren't angry or upset and then not acknowledging at all how people can understandably perceive you as so only help to further that initial impression you might have given. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end (though of course still acknowledge what things out of your control could have gone better like you did here), and then wrap it up from there. It's not like every single person who thought you were upset is out to get you or anything, some were legitimate first impressions. All my friends who saw the reddit clip of Larva playing with his foot all said that they thought one of the casters was upset/salty. And these are guys who have no idea who you are so there's no bias there. You can ignore me if you want but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as another guy who is pretty impartial to all this and just want to continue to see high quality casting/production in BW. You give a lot of advice for a guy who has never been in the position you think you are able to advise on mate. This information on the interpreter is post event lol. I had no idea who he was or how good he was. I also had no idea how good his translating was as I don't have a running translator rank in my robotic eye from sky net. also your whole "let me tell you how to handle yourself in the public eye" routine is incredibly dumb. You have no idea how to conduct yourself in a position like mine and the arrogance to presume as much is baffling. just stop >_< I don't either, but it's clear as day he's no professional lol. Especially when we've (I at least) never seen him translating in the scene before and it's not like BW is exactly in the position to splurge on professional and extremely talented translators that we have not yet seen before. Edited cause its irrelevant to the point anyways. My advice was a general one where if we don't know the level of the translator we assume he is not skilled enough to convey deadpan jokes that rely heavily on delivery. As someone who has done a decent number of translator work (korean/english), I hope you at least think I have the authority in that regard to inform you that you would have been by far the most difficult person on that particular cast to translate for because of how little context you give to your jokes and questions. Especially when near the end when you were visibly tired and out of it. Like I get it, it was a long day and I doubt you're always that out of it, but that's just how it was. I mean taking my advice is your prerogative, but if you're going to dismiss it simply because "lol I don't know who you are" and then project your arrogance onto me, that's your loss. You seem to really know how to handle yourself in the public eye really well given your current responses and your constant criticism. It's equally as baffling for me how you think you're doing a good job in that department. But I guess it doesn't really matter since the 'public eye' doesn't really matter in the BW scene right now unless you do something disgustingly egregious. So you do you, it doesn't matter anyways I guess nor do I care to really convince you anymore if you're this set on your ways. I think that the problem with your advice is that it is condescending and ultimately subjective, when you speak of subjectives as truths/absolutes it'll rarely bode well with people - much less people who are likely far more experienced than you are and make a living in the area of expertise you're claiming absolute knowledge on. Add to the mix a few disguised cheap shots and you have a recipe for not getting through to just about anyone, at least not "me or all my friends" who read your comment and thought you were being a bit of a dick, btw all my friends don't know you so they are impartial. If your goal was to offer advice and get through to iNcontroL with it, as you implied, you appear to have failed miserably, seeing as how your failure is an absolute given that iNcontroL is the only variable at play, I would argue that someone could write to you with a more solid basis than you wrote to him, a guide on how to offer advice starting with something like: My concern wasn't the content of advice, but recognizing that poor delivery of that advice can come off bad. If you're going to give advice like that to someone who likely has a lot more experience conducting themselves in public than you, you have to : a) b) c) As published in the most recent "bible of how to give advice" But hey, no one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. So as a result weren't at your best. I think it's fine to be passive aggressive / condescending but if you're trying to offer advice that you intend for an individual to take, maybe ease a bit on it. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end. I get that you parodied my post, but assuming that the intention was to get across that I could have worded my post better, than I accept that. I'm not immune to mistakes and I definitely could have done a better job in wording my advice. I have no problem with people pointing that out to me. However even if a parody I highly disagree with this in particular: Show nested quote +Add to the mix a few disguised cheap shots and you have a recipe for not getting through to just about anyone, at least not "me or all my friends" who read your comment and thought you were being a bit of a dick, btw all my friends don't know you so they are impartial.
If your goal was to offer advice and get through to iNcontroL with it, as you implied, you appear to have failed miserably, seeing as how your failure is an absolute given that iNcontroL is the only variable at play Really don't think I took cheap shots and there was 0 intention in doing so. Feel free to point out where you think I took cheap shots though since I'd rather not come off that way in the future when posting especially when I'm not intending to do so. Thanks.
I did point them out brother, that was a strong driving force to writing the 'parody'
EDIT: there's more but here's a few highlights
>I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards (Classic compli-sult)
>Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. (Classic bash by comparison)
Lets make sure he knows what you think in case he didnt read it before:
> I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed.
> [incontrol] Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. (Implies he's dumb / not taking things you are into account in this situation)
> I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes.(Making sure for the X time he knows that you don't find his humor appealing)
> but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. (more of the same)
> project your arrogance onto me (presumptuous, but pretty straight forward in what you want to say at least, gj)
> You seem to really know how to handle yourself in the public eye really well given your current responses and your constant criticism (Classic C/C- level Sarcasm)
> nor do I care to really convince you anymore if you're this set on your ways. (this summarizes the exchange well for me, as it assumes you are right & he is wrong about your subjective opinion on his jokes and thus he must be: stubborn)
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This feels like the time iNcontroL got a lot of shit after the remastered showmatch event they did a while ago. I didn't think there was a problem with the questions he asked. Maybe a mis-translation or something made Larva feel uncomfortable.
Edit: Holy shit just realized the guy arguing above me is Catz. Reminds me of the early days of SC2, good times.
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On December 05 2017 14:41 ROOTCatZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 14:38 dsyxelic wrote:On December 05 2017 14:32 ROOTCatZ wrote:On December 05 2017 13:52 dsyxelic wrote:On December 05 2017 12:53 iNcontroL wrote:On December 05 2017 11:43 dsyxelic wrote:On December 05 2017 11:07 iNcontroL wrote:On December 05 2017 10:21 dsyxelic wrote:Personally I don't think it was malicious or anything, especially now that I know the context. However I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards as someone who has been in the scene for a long while. Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. Even if the comments/perceived attitude/jokes were not malicious, it came off very poor. I don't think it comes to a surprise that trying to make deadpan jokes when a translator is involved (one who isn't a professional translator to boot) won't be very effective. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o Like I said before, I feel like you should rethink your jokes when a translator is involved, especially when he's not a very good one. Even as an American your joke there can be taken weird, and as a Korean it's probably like 'what the fuck is that question' especially if not given the right context. I think from an English-speaking perspective your joke wouldn't be TOO weird though I'd be definitely wondering why you wanted to talk about my weight randomly, especially as a leading question, but I can always ask after the interview why. However you'd be much better off providing the context. For example "So Larva, the casters and I were joking around and an interesting topic came up where we talked about thigh size..." -> question. That would remove ALOT of possible confusion even with a amateur translator. On December 05 2017 08:58 Hawk2 wrote:
Obviously the internet is awful at giving criticism. I like your normal style of casting and I think people should take your word there was no ill will. But that style of casting in the finals did not mesh well with what was going on and was just such a stark contrast from all of the unadulterated laughter from the other casters that it broke the flow so to speak.
Anyway these are just my thoughts take from them what you will, I hope Zotac was fun for you and that there can be more Starcraft events in the future. I pretty mcuh agree. Rather than the jokes being offensive, I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes." Hey man. My jokes were about as bland and innocuous as they get. Want to tell me which jokes you think were obviously over the line and I need to "rethink" ? I also did in my post say I was tired and I said my jokes aren't always funny.. I also talk about how I thought I was trolling too much so I stopped talk as much.. like, what do you want? Nothing you said here is new or not what I said already. It's like you think someone can cast for 22 hours and be perfect the entire time. My point wasn't that the jokes were over the line and that you need to rethink the content. That was not what I was getting at all. My concern wasn't the content of your jokes, but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. If you're going to make a deadpan joke like that about asking his weight/weight of his thighs, you have to A) Take into account that your translator is not a professional and the harder the joke is to get for people who speak your language, the harder it will be for someone who doesn't and needs it translated. As someone who speaks both languages, his translations were obviously amateur level and he clearly was not at the level where he could convey those type of deadpan jokes well. I'm sure everyone knew that he was not a professional translator. I know you acknowledged that the nature of your jokes has been criticized for a while by people who don't know you well and that it's nothing new - that's why it's probably a good idea to be a bit more aware of how badly it can be taken when a translator and foreign language is involved. B) Giving context is important well. If you just throw out "Can I ask him how much he thinks his thigh weighs" with 0 context to the interviewee, obviously he will be confused and won't understand the joke. It's basically an inside joke without the interviewee being let in on it. This applies to both to people who speak your language and those who don't, but obviously even more so to the latter. No one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. But there's a difference between completely absolving yourself from responsibility and just owning up to the fact that the conditions were bad so you as a result weren't at your best. He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o This comes off as more of casting blame at everything besides your own (translation, not understanding your humor, etc). These are all to a degree true, but making a post clarifying about how you weren't angry or upset and then not acknowledging at all how people can understandably perceive you as so only help to further that initial impression you might have given. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end (though of course still acknowledge what things out of your control could have gone better like you did here), and then wrap it up from there. It's not like every single person who thought you were upset is out to get you or anything, some were legitimate first impressions. All my friends who saw the reddit clip of Larva playing with his foot all said that they thought one of the casters was upset/salty. And these are guys who have no idea who you are so there's no bias there. You can ignore me if you want but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as another guy who is pretty impartial to all this and just want to continue to see high quality casting/production in BW. You give a lot of advice for a guy who has never been in the position you think you are able to advise on mate. This information on the interpreter is post event lol. I had no idea who he was or how good he was. I also had no idea how good his translating was as I don't have a running translator rank in my robotic eye from sky net. also your whole "let me tell you how to handle yourself in the public eye" routine is incredibly dumb. You have no idea how to conduct yourself in a position like mine and the arrogance to presume as much is baffling. just stop >_< I don't either, but it's clear as day he's no professional lol. Especially when we've (I at least) never seen him translating in the scene before and it's not like BW is exactly in the position to splurge on professional and extremely talented translators that we have not yet seen before. Edited cause its irrelevant to the point anyways. My advice was a general one where if we don't know the level of the translator we assume he is not skilled enough to convey deadpan jokes that rely heavily on delivery. As someone who has done a decent number of translator work (korean/english), I hope you at least think I have the authority in that regard to inform you that you would have been by far the most difficult person on that particular cast to translate for because of how little context you give to your jokes and questions. Especially when near the end when you were visibly tired and out of it. Like I get it, it was a long day and I doubt you're always that out of it, but that's just how it was. I mean taking my advice is your prerogative, but if you're going to dismiss it simply because "lol I don't know who you are" and then project your arrogance onto me, that's your loss. You seem to really know how to handle yourself in the public eye really well given your current responses and your constant criticism. It's equally as baffling for me how you think you're doing a good job in that department. But I guess it doesn't really matter since the 'public eye' doesn't really matter in the BW scene right now unless you do something disgustingly egregious. So you do you, it doesn't matter anyways I guess nor do I care to really convince you anymore if you're this set on your ways. I think that the problem with your advice is that it is condescending and ultimately subjective, when you speak of subjectives as truths/absolutes it'll rarely bode well with people - much less people who are likely far more experienced than you are and make a living in the area of expertise you're claiming absolute knowledge on. Add to the mix a few disguised cheap shots and you have a recipe for not getting through to just about anyone, at least not "me or all my friends" who read your comment and thought you were being a bit of a dick, btw all my friends don't know you so they are impartial. If your goal was to offer advice and get through to iNcontroL with it, as you implied, you appear to have failed miserably, seeing as how your failure is an absolute given that iNcontroL is the only variable at play, I would argue that someone could write to you with a more solid basis than you wrote to him, a guide on how to offer advice starting with something like: My concern wasn't the content of advice, but recognizing that poor delivery of that advice can come off bad. If you're going to give advice like that to someone who likely has a lot more experience conducting themselves in public than you, you have to : a) b) c) As published in the most recent "bible of how to give advice" But hey, no one is asking for perfection here. I understand you are tired, it clearly showed. So as a result weren't at your best. I think it's fine to be passive aggressive / condescending but if you're trying to offer advice that you intend for an individual to take, maybe ease a bit on it. It would better serve you to acknowledge how some people could have taken you that way, address things that could be done better on your end. I get that you parodied my post, but assuming that the intention was to get across that I could have worded my post better, than I accept that. I'm not immune to mistakes and I definitely could have done a better job in wording my advice. I have no problem with people pointing that out to me. However even if a parody I highly disagree with this in particular: Add to the mix a few disguised cheap shots and you have a recipe for not getting through to just about anyone, at least not "me or all my friends" who read your comment and thought you were being a bit of a dick, btw all my friends don't know you so they are impartial.
If your goal was to offer advice and get through to iNcontroL with it, as you implied, you appear to have failed miserably, seeing as how your failure is an absolute given that iNcontroL is the only variable at play Really don't think I took cheap shots and there was 0 intention in doing so. Feel free to point out where you think I took cheap shots though since I'd rather not come off that way in the future when posting especially when I'm not intending to do so. Thanks. I did point them out brother, that was a strong driving force to writing the 'parody' EDIT: there's more but here's a few highlights >I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards (Classic compli-sult) >Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. (Classic bash by comparison) Lets make sure he knows what you think in case he didnt read it before: > I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed. > [incontrol] Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. (Implies he's dumb / not taking things you are into account in this situation) > I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes.(Making sure for the X time he knows that you don't find his humor appealing) > but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. (more of the same) > project your arrogance onto me (presumptuous, but pretty straight forward in what you want to say at least, gj) > You seem to really know how to handle yourself in the public eye really well given your current responses and your constant criticism (Classic C/C- level Sarcasm) > nor do I care to really convince you anymore if you're this set on your ways. (this summarizes the exchange well for me, as it assumes you are right & he is wrong about your subjective opinion on his jokes and thus he must be: stubborn)
Ok here are my responses as well then:
>I do think that it was a very poor cast by your standards (Classic compli-sult)
-I think that is fair given that he basically admitted that was lower than his standards Zotac took great care of us but that is a LONG day. What ends up happening is sometimes we run a dry. I make a LOT of jokes and I :"troll" I like to think I am somewhere in the ballpark of 85% funny but that means over the course of that time I am going to be a bit too mean, just dumb or not funny etc.
I was just acknowledging what he was implying, that he was tired and therefore was a bit off. Not trying to give a backhanded insult veiled as a compliment.
>Like I get that fatigue is definitely a thing and anyone would be tired, but the other guys held up just fine and was able to maintain a certain quality while on air. (Classic bash by comparison)
-Fatigue affects everyone. It's a classic excuse that even I make tons of times and I hope people call me out on it when I do. "But I had no time to meet the deadline". Everyone has a lack of time, it's just that they make it a priority especially if it's your professional work. My aim was not to compare him to the other casters, but point out that everyone deals with the same thing and that using that as an excuse does nothing to help anyone. Though I definitely agree with you here that this could make someone defensive as I also hate getting compared to peers. I'll keep that in mind.
Lets make sure he knows what you think in case he didnt read it before:
> I just think the casting for the finals by incontrol was below par. I just chalked it up to fatigue and probably being out of it since he definitely look tired but I'm slightly disappointed from this post that he didn't just say something like "My bad was pretty tired and as a result it showed.
-Already responded to this
> [incontrol] Forgot that context is important when making jokes with foreigners. (Implies he's dumb / not taking things you are into account in this situation)
-How does that imply he's dumb? Think you're really off the mark on this one. Cultural context is tough and I don't think anyone is dumb for missing it. If I thought he was straight up dumb for missing it I would have not posted in the first place. I only posted because it is a common mistake many people make.
> I wasn't angry or offended by Larva, just needed good rest to make better jokes.(Making sure for the X time he knows that you don't find his humor appealing)
-? I assume you're paraphrasing what incontrol said here in OP but don't see how paraphrasing him makes this one of my cheapshots
> but recognizing that poor delivery of those jokes can come off bad. (more of the same)
- Not cheap shot, genuine advice.
> project your arrogance onto me (presumptuous, but pretty straight forward in what you want to say at least, gj)
Yup this was just me retorting.
> You seem to really know how to handle yourself in the public eye really well given your current responses and your constant criticism (Classic C/C- level Sarcasm)
-Again, retorting to his arrogant reply. Not gonna pretend this one was advice since this part was never meant to be advice. Just returning the heat.
> nor do I care to really convince you anymore if you're this set on your ways. (this summarizes the exchange well for me, as it assumes you are right & he is wrong about your subjective opinion on his jokes and thus he must be: stubborn)
-You're not gonna get much out of me if you're only looking at the 2nd part of my 2nd post while ignoring incontrol's original reply and my original post which was where I aimed to give advice. My intention of my 2nd post was partly to clarify and the other half just to return some heat since he was clearly open to dishing some. He already made clear he couldn't care less about advice by that point.
I still find it funny though that my actual attempt at insulting him was the one you had the least issue with. Hint it's the one where I called him arrogant.
My concern wasn't the content of advice, but recognizing that poor delivery of that advice can come off bad.
If you actually mean this that's fine with me. I'll try to do a better delivery next time and I apologize if incontrol thought I was attacking him, wasn't intended. As long as the content of the advice was made clear I'm happy and done with this.
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On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:We plan on doing more events like this so I am going to get really used to hearing how people think I am mad or not funny or need the attention etc.. been happening since SOTG and will continue. I'm still just gonna keep showing up and making the majority of the people happy
Great! You were an integral part of the cast and I hope everyone can get back together and do another one.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Catz you're a god .. your patience to write that all out is greatly appreciated. I often just start Calling people dumb and guffawing
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On December 05 2017 15:27 iNcontroL wrote:
Catz you're a god .. your patience to write that all out is greatly appreciated. I often just start Calling people dumb and guffawing
Haha yeah Catz's post is one of my favorites today! Although, after seeing the responses that the original poster is giving it seems like your method might be more realistic. Trying to use well written logic to help someone that egocentric/self-absorbed is going to be a looong uphill battle.
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now this is just ridiculous lmao
I must be getting trolled. glhf then
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All this bullshit is some Twitch chat level of criticism. You did great, Geoff! I really appreciate all you're doing and it boggles my mind that people can't see the difference between being tired with the usual deadpan, and being mad.
Looking forward to more events with you and the others involved in it!
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Ok brother, I have no intention of continuing with this discussion, but i'll leave you my closing thoughts:
"-I think that is fair given that he basically admitted that was lower than his standards"
I think that some of the things you seem to be missing hardcore from your perspective on things and why you think you are "in the clear" to make assumptions like this is that It isn't for you to determine what instances you perceived as "sub par". Sub par is ultimately subjective, as I tried to point out to you earlier, which is to say that a joke you thought was unfunny, I might have thought was funny. iNcontroL thinks he's funny around 85% of the time but because funny is an abstract, subjective, concept... I might think that he is funny 90% of the time! and you might think he's funny only 50%! of the time, and those times between the 3 of us don't even have to overlap. So when you are presumptuous enough to make assumptions on how to improve the delivery of jokes __YOU__ found unfunny it is to me, mind fucking blowing brother, because that likely means that you either don't understand or it hasn't, in this instance, occurred to you that different people find different things funny.
For example, had it occurred to you that _MAYBE_ it seemed more important to incontrol at the time of asking the question on leg-weight to deliver a line his friends the casters or the Twitch audience could quickly relate to instead of attempting to translate so that larva is "in on it?" I understand, completely if you think that Larva being the interviewee should be the focus of the interview, but WHAT IF - given the circumstances / setting I was to disagree? What if I was to say I found the question funny and I wouldn't have found it funny / maybe would've been cringy to me if he had "explained" it to larva? Because from that perspective all of your points / advice on that specific is null, is it not? That's why the first thing I said was that I think your advice seems condescending in spite of it's subjectivity - different people can see the same situation differently thus it being subjective. I think that being absolute and on top of it condescending when pertaining subjectives is a powerful display of arrogance. Like branding fatigue as a trivial/non-valid "excuse" is on that same vein, you realize fatigue IS a real thing right? that it affects different people differently - so while you may fatigue slower, I may fatigue faster, conversely believe it or not I may be better at other things than you, we're not all the same Mein Dude. Lets put it simply using a hyperbolic yet easily relatable example; take your grandma and your kids out to the park and tell them to run around and see which one fatigues faster, then tell your grandma to man the fuck up and stop making excuses the kids are doing just fine. While it isn't my intend to imply that iNcontroL is the grandma in that family (because I think that's Artosis) I want to make it a point that you understand and maybe keep in mind for your future lectures: different people work differently.
As a note on your "direct" insult, I "took least issue" with because.. + Show Spoiler + [HINT] "poorly disguised cheap shot" [HINT]
On December 05 2017 15:27 iNcontroL wrote:
Catz you're a god .. your patience to write that all out is greatly appreciated. I often just start Calling people dumb and guffawing
Haha, no worries man, sometimes I get an itch and I like to write a lot / in detail. Everyone has to pick some to sit out, Much of the time I too start calling people dumb, and while I don't often guffaw, I sometimes cackle
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Ignore the haters Geoff, its like you have a following of people who just want to bash everything you say and do.. Thats must be seriously taxing, i think it speaks volumes that you are still in this genre dispite all that.
Did you seem "angry" yesterday? - in my eyes I understand where your mentally probably was.
When you spend your proffesional life, advocating for the legitimacy of E-sports, it can be hard to watch a player almost trivially dispell his competition. And you problably where painfully aware of the viewer experience. Was it funny?- hell yea, but it didnt do anything for a new player to draw them into the game, as a strategy game. I think most people could see that your jokes were meant in good spirits. So i would ignore the vocal minority that says otherwise.
#FreeGeoff, #FreeLarvae.
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United States10081 Posts
On December 05 2017 16:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:Ok brother, I have no intention of continuing with this discussion, but i'll leave you my closing thoughts: "-I think that is fair given that he basically admitted that was lower than his standards" I think that some of the things you seem to be missing hardcore from your perspective on things and why you think you are "in the clear" to make assumptions like this is that It isn't for you to determine what instances you perceived as "sub par". Sub par is ultimately subjective, as I tried to point out to you earlier, which is to say that a joke you thought was unfunny, I might have thought was funny. iNcontroL thinks he's funny around 85% of the time but because funny is an abstract, subjective, concept... I might think that he is funny 90% of the time! and you might think he's funny only 50%! of the time, and those times between the 3 of us don't even have to overlap. So when you are presumptuous enough to make assumptions on how to improve the delivery of jokes __YOU__ found unfunny it is to me, mind fucking blowing brother, because that likely means that you either don't understand or it hasn't, in this instance, occurred to you that different people find different things funny. For example, had it occurred to you that _MAYBE_ it seemed more important to incontrol at the time of asking the question on leg-weight to deliver a line his friends the casters or the Twitch audience could quickly relate to instead of attempting to translate so that larva is "in on it?" I understand, completely if you think that Larva being the interviewee should be the focus of the interview, but WHAT IF - given the circumstances / setting I was to disagree? What if I was to say I found the question funny and I wouldn't have found it funny / maybe would've been cringy to me if he had "explained" it to larva? Because from that perspective all of your points / advice on that specific is null, is it not? That's why the first thing I said was that I think your advice seems condescending in spite of it's subjectivity - different people can see the same situation differently thus it being subjective. I think that being absolute and on top of it condescending when pertaining subjectives is a powerful display of arrogance. Like branding fatigue as a trivial/non-valid "excuse" is on that same vein, you realize fatigue IS a real thing right? that it affects different people differently - so while you may fatigue slower, I may fatigue faster, conversely believe it or not I may be better at other things than you, we're not all the same Mein Dude. Lets put it simply using a hyperbolic yet easily relatable example; take your grandma and your kids out to the park and tell them to run around and see which one fatigues faster, then tell your grandma to man the fuck up and stop making excuses the kids are doing just fine. While it isn't my intend to imply that iNcontroL is the grandma in that family (because I think that's Artosis) I want to make it a point that you understand and maybe keep in mind for your future lectures: different people work differently. As a note on your "direct" insult, I "took least issue" with because.. + Show Spoiler + [HINT] "poorly disguised cheap shot" [HINT] I didn't think that's a poorly disguised cheap shot, in case you didn't catch that, it's also in the "Hint" I put under the spoiler. Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 15:27 iNcontroL wrote:
Catz you're a god .. your patience to write that all out is greatly appreciated. I often just start Calling people dumb and guffawing Haha, no worries man, sometimes I get an itch and I like to write a lot / in detail. Everyone has to pick some to sit out, Much of the time I too start calling people dumb, and while I don't often guffaw, I sometimes cackle
Where the hell is Destiny for you and him to do impersonations vs this guy.
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Well, despite all this bullshit over what feels to me like a very non-issue, I had great fun with the tournament, almost entirely because of the cast. It was totally worth getting up at 4am for. Keeping up banter for 10 straight hours 2x days in a row is no mean feat, and I have nothing but props to all you guys for doing such a stellar job over the weekend. The pictionary had me curled into a borderline fetal position with laughter, I could not fucking handle it. IT'S CANADA! And I just want to thank you guys for taking time out to do these sorts of events and I hope we'll see them again in the future.
Even though I might have got the impression that incontrol was less than pleased during the interview (as it seemed like the chat did), if he says that it wasn't that, then that's it. I don't see the point in stirring drama when there isn't any there. I don't want to see this take away from what was a fantastic weekend, and i hope you guys will do more of these in the future if the chance arises.
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On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:
During the interview I asked him silly questions to try and get the discussion away from "man legend is bad and you made fun of him" so I asked him about his thigh cuz I for some reason during the cast estimated it to weigh 17 lbs.. wtf. I also asked him about researching more troll techniques and that was about it. I did it all deadpan because I do that 96% of the time.
i said it in your twitch chat yesterday and want to repeat here, the interview part was extremely fitting to the games before, anything else would just be boring and non-relevant, the questions asked made everyone laugh and it felt like poking back and forth and honestly larva at that moment seemed to enjoy it. Its probably your dead-serious face that threw him off, but again i think its mostly that he doesnt know you very well. I enjoyed the double trolling and in all honesty its not larva's fault that ZOTAC decided to match him in the tournament vs much weaker opponents.
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On December 05 2017 17:09 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 16:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:Ok brother, I have no intention of continuing with this discussion, but i'll leave you my closing thoughts: "-I think that is fair given that he basically admitted that was lower than his standards" I think that some of the things you seem to be missing hardcore from your perspective on things and why you think you are "in the clear" to make assumptions like this is that It isn't for you to determine what instances you perceived as "sub par". Sub par is ultimately subjective, as I tried to point out to you earlier, which is to say that a joke you thought was unfunny, I might have thought was funny. iNcontroL thinks he's funny around 85% of the time but because funny is an abstract, subjective, concept... I might think that he is funny 90% of the time! and you might think he's funny only 50%! of the time, and those times between the 3 of us don't even have to overlap. So when you are presumptuous enough to make assumptions on how to improve the delivery of jokes __YOU__ found unfunny it is to me, mind fucking blowing brother, because that likely means that you either don't understand or it hasn't, in this instance, occurred to you that different people find different things funny. For example, had it occurred to you that _MAYBE_ it seemed more important to incontrol at the time of asking the question on leg-weight to deliver a line his friends the casters or the Twitch audience could quickly relate to instead of attempting to translate so that larva is "in on it?" I understand, completely if you think that Larva being the interviewee should be the focus of the interview, but WHAT IF - given the circumstances / setting I was to disagree? What if I was to say I found the question funny and I wouldn't have found it funny / maybe would've been cringy to me if he had "explained" it to larva? Because from that perspective all of your points / advice on that specific is null, is it not? That's why the first thing I said was that I think your advice seems condescending in spite of it's subjectivity - different people can see the same situation differently thus it being subjective. I think that being absolute and on top of it condescending when pertaining subjectives is a powerful display of arrogance. Like branding fatigue as a trivial/non-valid "excuse" is on that same vein, you realize fatigue IS a real thing right? that it affects different people differently - so while you may fatigue slower, I may fatigue faster, conversely believe it or not I may be better at other things than you, we're not all the same Mein Dude. Lets put it simply using a hyperbolic yet easily relatable example; take your grandma and your kids out to the park and tell them to run around and see which one fatigues faster, then tell your grandma to man the fuck up and stop making excuses the kids are doing just fine. While it isn't my intend to imply that iNcontroL is the grandma in that family (because I think that's Artosis) I want to make it a point that you understand and maybe keep in mind for your future lectures: different people work differently. As a note on your "direct" insult, I "took least issue" with because.. + Show Spoiler + [HINT] "poorly disguised cheap shot" [HINT] I didn't think that's a poorly disguised cheap shot, in case you didn't catch that, it's also in the "Hint" I put under the spoiler. On December 05 2017 15:27 iNcontroL wrote:
Catz you're a god .. your patience to write that all out is greatly appreciated. I often just start Calling people dumb and guffawing Haha, no worries man, sometimes I get an itch and I like to write a lot / in detail. Everyone has to pick some to sit out, Much of the time I too start calling people dumb, and while I don't often guffaw, I sometimes cackle Where the hell is Destiny for you and him to do impersonations vs this guy.
Funny you mention him given we've met before and I could probably hit him up given that we have a very close mutual friend.
But this definitely blew out of proportion and I don't understand why people think I'm a hater when I've generally had no problem with incontrol's cast for the last decade and honestly meant no ill will from my original posts. I really don't understand the sensitivity here.
I did get a bit annoyed when he basically dismissed everything I said basically calling me dumb and arrogant, and people dogpiling on top didn't help, but I still hold no ill will. Just very confused that I'm made out to be a hater lmao.
On December 05 2017 17:58 Wonk wrote:
Well, despite all this bullshit over what feels to me like a very non-issue, I had great fun with the tournament, almost entirely because of the cast. It was totally worth getting up at 4am for. Keeping up banter for 10 straight hours 2x days in a row is no mean feat, and I have nothing but props to all you guys for doing such a stellar job over the weekend. The pictionary had me curled into a borderline fetal position with laughter, I could not fucking handle it. IT'S CANADA! And I just want to thank you guys for taking time out to do these sorts of events and I hope we'll see them again in the future.
Even though I might have got the impression that incontrol was less than pleased during the interview (as it seemed like the chat did), if he says that it wasn't that, then that's it. I don't see the point in stirring drama when there isn't any there. I don't want to see this take away from what was a fantastic weekend, and i hope you guys will do more of these in the future if the chance arises.
This was exactly my sentiment too. I never meant to 'stir up drama' and I don't understand why my post was responded to in the way it did.
Even though I might have got the impression that incontrol was less than pleased during the interview (as it seemed like the chat did), if he says that it wasn't that, then that's it.
This was what I was saying. I understand that he is tired and it showed, and I was able to get clarification on that through this post. But I just wanted to point out things about the part where he talked about Larva being offended because he seemed confused: He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. and this was one of the few times I actually have experience with this since during my translator days this was a very common thing where an English speaker would make a dry humor joke and it wouldn't fly very well.
I try to point that out and I'm suddenly an incontrol hater?
???
Yeah fuck me I post once about something incontrol can do better and attempt to provide context on a confusion he had out of the 8+ years I've seen him in the scene and I'm a hater.
However I will admit that I delved too far into responding to others and strayed too far into the PR part when I wanted to focus on the translation bit. That was my bad.
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On December 05 2017 18:29 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 17:09 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 16:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:Ok brother, I have no intention of continuing with this discussion, but i'll leave you my closing thoughts: "-I think that is fair given that he basically admitted that was lower than his standards" I think that some of the things you seem to be missing hardcore from your perspective on things and why you think you are "in the clear" to make assumptions like this is that It isn't for you to determine what instances you perceived as "sub par". Sub par is ultimately subjective, as I tried to point out to you earlier, which is to say that a joke you thought was unfunny, I might have thought was funny. iNcontroL thinks he's funny around 85% of the time but because funny is an abstract, subjective, concept... I might think that he is funny 90% of the time! and you might think he's funny only 50%! of the time, and those times between the 3 of us don't even have to overlap. So when you are presumptuous enough to make assumptions on how to improve the delivery of jokes __YOU__ found unfunny it is to me, mind fucking blowing brother, because that likely means that you either don't understand or it hasn't, in this instance, occurred to you that different people find different things funny. For example, had it occurred to you that _MAYBE_ it seemed more important to incontrol at the time of asking the question on leg-weight to deliver a line his friends the casters or the Twitch audience could quickly relate to instead of attempting to translate so that larva is "in on it?" I understand, completely if you think that Larva being the interviewee should be the focus of the interview, but WHAT IF - given the circumstances / setting I was to disagree? What if I was to say I found the question funny and I wouldn't have found it funny / maybe would've been cringy to me if he had "explained" it to larva? Because from that perspective all of your points / advice on that specific is null, is it not? That's why the first thing I said was that I think your advice seems condescending in spite of it's subjectivity - different people can see the same situation differently thus it being subjective. I think that being absolute and on top of it condescending when pertaining subjectives is a powerful display of arrogance. Like branding fatigue as a trivial/non-valid "excuse" is on that same vein, you realize fatigue IS a real thing right? that it affects different people differently - so while you may fatigue slower, I may fatigue faster, conversely believe it or not I may be better at other things than you, we're not all the same Mein Dude. Lets put it simply using a hyperbolic yet easily relatable example; take your grandma and your kids out to the park and tell them to run around and see which one fatigues faster, then tell your grandma to man the fuck up and stop making excuses the kids are doing just fine. While it isn't my intend to imply that iNcontroL is the grandma in that family (because I think that's Artosis) I want to make it a point that you understand and maybe keep in mind for your future lectures: different people work differently. As a note on your "direct" insult, I "took least issue" with because.. + Show Spoiler + [HINT] "poorly disguised cheap shot" [HINT] I didn't think that's a poorly disguised cheap shot, in case you didn't catch that, it's also in the "Hint" I put under the spoiler. On December 05 2017 15:27 iNcontroL wrote:
Catz you're a god .. your patience to write that all out is greatly appreciated. I often just start Calling people dumb and guffawing Haha, no worries man, sometimes I get an itch and I like to write a lot / in detail. Everyone has to pick some to sit out, Much of the time I too start calling people dumb, and while I don't often guffaw, I sometimes cackle Where the hell is Destiny for you and him to do impersonations vs this guy. Funny you mention him given we've met before and I could probably hit him up given that we have a very close mutual friend. But this definitely blew out of proportion and I don't understand why people think I'm a hater when I've generally had no problem with incontrol's cast for the last decade and honestly meant no ill will from my original posts. I really don't understand the sensitivity here. I did get a bit annoyed when he basically dismissed everything I said basically calling me dumb and arrogant, and people dogpiling on top didn't help, but I still hold no ill will. Just very confused that I'm made out to be a hater lmao. Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 17:58 Wonk wrote:
Well, despite all this bullshit over what feels to me like a very non-issue, I had great fun with the tournament, almost entirely because of the cast. It was totally worth getting up at 4am for. Keeping up banter for 10 straight hours 2x days in a row is no mean feat, and I have nothing but props to all you guys for doing such a stellar job over the weekend. The pictionary had me curled into a borderline fetal position with laughter, I could not fucking handle it. IT'S CANADA! And I just want to thank you guys for taking time out to do these sorts of events and I hope we'll see them again in the future.
Even though I might have got the impression that incontrol was less than pleased during the interview (as it seemed like the chat did), if he says that it wasn't that, then that's it. I don't see the point in stirring drama when there isn't any there. I don't want to see this take away from what was a fantastic weekend, and i hope you guys will do more of these in the future if the chance arises. This was exactly my sentiment too. I never meant to 'stir up drama' and I don't understand why my post was responded to in the way it did. Show nested quote +Even though I might have got the impression that incontrol was less than pleased during the interview (as it seemed like the chat did), if he says that it wasn't that, then that's it. This was what I was saying. I understand that he is tired and it showed, and I was able to get clarification on that through this post. But I just wanted to point out things about the part where he talked about Larva being offended because he seemed confused: Show nested quote + He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. and this was one of the few times I actually have experience with this since during my translator days this was a very common thing where an English speaker would make a dry humor joke and it wouldn't fly very well. I try to point that out and I'm suddenly an incontrol hater? ??? Yeah fuck me I post once about something incontrol can do better and attempt to provide context on a confusion he had out of the 8+ years I've seen him in the scene and I'm a hater.
I didn't see anything terribly wrong with what you posted, it seemed logical to me honestly 1) its hard to be vulnerable in the public eye so give these guys a break 2) catz mannerisms are what make him unique so I wouldn't worry too much about it 3) incontrol cares about his work 4) its double edged sword when people are involved, humans are difficult, not saying i'm any better than catz or incontrol either, it's just hard when you try to do your best and you still come up "short", being the messenger when trying to help someone improve is not always rewarded and doesn't always deserve to be
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On December 05 2017 18:31 dark.matter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 18:29 dsyxelic wrote:On December 05 2017 17:09 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 05 2017 16:17 ROOTCatZ wrote:Ok brother, I have no intention of continuing with this discussion, but i'll leave you my closing thoughts: "-I think that is fair given that he basically admitted that was lower than his standards" I think that some of the things you seem to be missing hardcore from your perspective on things and why you think you are "in the clear" to make assumptions like this is that It isn't for you to determine what instances you perceived as "sub par". Sub par is ultimately subjective, as I tried to point out to you earlier, which is to say that a joke you thought was unfunny, I might have thought was funny. iNcontroL thinks he's funny around 85% of the time but because funny is an abstract, subjective, concept... I might think that he is funny 90% of the time! and you might think he's funny only 50%! of the time, and those times between the 3 of us don't even have to overlap. So when you are presumptuous enough to make assumptions on how to improve the delivery of jokes __YOU__ found unfunny it is to me, mind fucking blowing brother, because that likely means that you either don't understand or it hasn't, in this instance, occurred to you that different people find different things funny. For example, had it occurred to you that _MAYBE_ it seemed more important to incontrol at the time of asking the question on leg-weight to deliver a line his friends the casters or the Twitch audience could quickly relate to instead of attempting to translate so that larva is "in on it?" I understand, completely if you think that Larva being the interviewee should be the focus of the interview, but WHAT IF - given the circumstances / setting I was to disagree? What if I was to say I found the question funny and I wouldn't have found it funny / maybe would've been cringy to me if he had "explained" it to larva? Because from that perspective all of your points / advice on that specific is null, is it not? That's why the first thing I said was that I think your advice seems condescending in spite of it's subjectivity - different people can see the same situation differently thus it being subjective. I think that being absolute and on top of it condescending when pertaining subjectives is a powerful display of arrogance. Like branding fatigue as a trivial/non-valid "excuse" is on that same vein, you realize fatigue IS a real thing right? that it affects different people differently - so while you may fatigue slower, I may fatigue faster, conversely believe it or not I may be better at other things than you, we're not all the same Mein Dude. Lets put it simply using a hyperbolic yet easily relatable example; take your grandma and your kids out to the park and tell them to run around and see which one fatigues faster, then tell your grandma to man the fuck up and stop making excuses the kids are doing just fine. While it isn't my intend to imply that iNcontroL is the grandma in that family (because I think that's Artosis) I want to make it a point that you understand and maybe keep in mind for your future lectures: different people work differently. As a note on your "direct" insult, I "took least issue" with because.. + Show Spoiler + [HINT] "poorly disguised cheap shot" [HINT] I didn't think that's a poorly disguised cheap shot, in case you didn't catch that, it's also in the "Hint" I put under the spoiler. On December 05 2017 15:27 iNcontroL wrote:
Catz you're a god .. your patience to write that all out is greatly appreciated. I often just start Calling people dumb and guffawing Haha, no worries man, sometimes I get an itch and I like to write a lot / in detail. Everyone has to pick some to sit out, Much of the time I too start calling people dumb, and while I don't often guffaw, I sometimes cackle Where the hell is Destiny for you and him to do impersonations vs this guy. Funny you mention him given we've met before and I could probably hit him up given that we have a very close mutual friend. But this definitely blew out of proportion and I don't understand why people think I'm a hater when I've generally had no problem with incontrol's cast for the last decade and honestly meant no ill will from my original posts. I really don't understand the sensitivity here. I did get a bit annoyed when he basically dismissed everything I said basically calling me dumb and arrogant, and people dogpiling on top didn't help, but I still hold no ill will. Just very confused that I'm made out to be a hater lmao. On December 05 2017 17:58 Wonk wrote:
Well, despite all this bullshit over what feels to me like a very non-issue, I had great fun with the tournament, almost entirely because of the cast. It was totally worth getting up at 4am for. Keeping up banter for 10 straight hours 2x days in a row is no mean feat, and I have nothing but props to all you guys for doing such a stellar job over the weekend. The pictionary had me curled into a borderline fetal position with laughter, I could not fucking handle it. IT'S CANADA! And I just want to thank you guys for taking time out to do these sorts of events and I hope we'll see them again in the future.
Even though I might have got the impression that incontrol was less than pleased during the interview (as it seemed like the chat did), if he says that it wasn't that, then that's it. I don't see the point in stirring drama when there isn't any there. I don't want to see this take away from what was a fantastic weekend, and i hope you guys will do more of these in the future if the chance arises. This was exactly my sentiment too. I never meant to 'stir up drama' and I don't understand why my post was responded to in the way it did. Even though I might have got the impression that incontrol was less than pleased during the interview (as it seemed like the chat did), if he says that it wasn't that, then that's it. This was what I was saying. I understand that he is tired and it showed, and I was able to get clarification on that through this post. But I just wanted to point out things about the part where he talked about Larva being offended because he seemed confused: He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. and this was one of the few times I actually have experience with this since during my translator days this was a very common thing where an English speaker would make a dry humor joke and it wouldn't fly very well. I try to point that out and I'm suddenly an incontrol hater? ??? Yeah fuck me I post once about something incontrol can do better and attempt to provide context on a confusion he had out of the 8+ years I've seen him in the scene and I'm a hater. I didn't see anything terribly wrong with what you posted, it seemed logical to me honestly 1) its hard to be vulnerable in the public eye so give these guys a break 2) catz mannerisms are what make him unique so I wouldn't worry too much about it 3) incontrol cares about his work 4) its double edged sword when people are involved, humans are difficult, not saying i'm any better than catz or incontrol either, it's just hard when you try to do your best and you still come up "short", being the messenger when trying to help someone improve is not always rewarded and doesn't always deserve to be
Yeah for sure, I'm never posting any form of criticism or opinion to public figures here again lol. I think I was probably just out of touch with the proximity of random posters to public figures especially in the small BW scene and how taxing it can be. It's been a long while since I posted instead of lurking. Didn't mean to harp on him and I definitely got defensive at the end when I was painted as a hater since that was never my intention and I still don't dislike the guy. I understand now that my post could be tiresome to read when dealing with constant criticism from others.
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Netherlands4731 Posts
The only way to get incontrol mad is to question his claims about his highest achieved iccup rank 
I didn't think you were ever mad, I thought u were really chill throughout. And if it wasn't for the bad jokes I could see myself enjoying you cast.
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I actually thought you were extremely funny. The other guys were so amped and were laughing their asses off, so the other side with the reality checks were actually a hilarious combination.
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On December 05 2017 13:13 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
It was obvious to see you were mad. Why else would you defend yourself? Day9 didn't have much to say, Artosis was still laughing his ass off and goofing around. You could've just relaxed.
Yeah, why does the guy who has always got tonnes of undeserved shit for years defend himself? Why doesn't he shut up like these other guys who never catch nearly as much hate?
-______________-''''''''''''''
So many silly people in this thread.... and that 1 post account who even identifies himself as a redditor. What a sad, pathetic sight.
It seems like this community is only getting worse as time goes on; we hardly even deserve people like Geoff anymore (or the other equally wonderful co-hosts)...
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On December 05 2017 15:44 dsyxelic wrote:
now this is just ridiculous lmao
I must be getting trolled. glhf then
dsyxelic I feel you. I hope you are getting trolled. I think your advice for him is good and very well spirited. I see no ill spirit from you and I feel your posts are very fair. Ignore the trolls or "fans" that are for some reason taking cheap shots at you.
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First of all, thanks to all the players and casters and organizers to put up these great events for SC:R.
Well, as a guy who was born in China. I can tell you guys one thing. The Chinese culture these days is very very nationalism. So anything that is possibly insulting like this could be perceived as insult to the country, it doesn't help when the political atmosphere between the 2 country is not that great right now. I don't know how it is in Korea, but I can tell you the Chinese government spend tons of money trying to propaganda that Korea is not good because of recent installment of anti-missile system from USA. Like boycotting Korean owned super market in China, making them go bankrupt, and boycotting Korean pop stars, and Korean culture exports etc etc. xD
Plus, it is a bit disheartening from LX's perspective, it probably hurt him to be publicly humiliated as what Larva have done.
And his post on Chinese social media doesn't help with the circumstances. As the Chinese Media is still at large hunting for anything that can be controversy between China and Korea. Unfortunately the Chinese and the Korean aren't in a honey moon period right now, if we were, I think this could be taken less seriously, and possibly be a good joke.
Aside from what I wrote above. I can understand where both party are coming from. I hope this doesn't kill the love of SCBW from LX. And I also wish the best for Larva, as he is still trying his best to be a professional. I do not like his style and do not agree with what he does, but I hope people don't write all the criticism toward Larva alone if you find yourself does not agree with what he is doing. But rather ask the question how have we as gamer ourselves have made a culture of such. As any media business, it is only serving what people want. There's an audience for it, then someone will find a way to serve it.
I do have to confess I used to be a troll on B.net as well :S
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Thanks for clearing it up, iNcontroL. It was a blast having you there, and it felt good you and Artosis poking at least a bit of fun at Larva in the winners interview and I really thought making him talk about his BM and make him feel a bit uncomfortable was more than fair ^ ^
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Welcome to 2017, where people are offended by everything.
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Do you guys think that making t-shirts with Larva as a cute cartoon character playing with his feet and deadpan Geoff behind him is a safe way to get rich now?
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I want a shirt of when larva was "shhhhing". Absolutely hillarious.
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In my opinion trolling between casters is way more annoying / unprofessional than one player trolling another.
Casters should cast the game and all the time I'm listenning about past experiencies of 1on1's between the casters that add nothing to the game. In the first game when Legend was attacking Larva's 3rd you guys were talking about drawing pylons in the map, Artosis talking about Geoff 'gging' when he had the game won. Larva was not disrespectful like that, in fact the first one to write something was Legend when he saw the blood of the drone.
The question about his weight was unapropriate and not very professional imo. Larva's troll was basicaly showing he was a much better player than Legend. Asking the weight of his thigh as a first question is very rude and adds ZERO to the game.
This Larva performance is questionable but it does more to the game than you can imagine. People love villains (like Idra) and that is that.
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On December 05 2017 22:58 xTJx wrote:
Welcome to 2017, where people are offended by everything.
People aren't any more or less offended than before, they're simply more aware.
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Hey iNcontroL, thanks for the cast. The whole weekend was a blast, and I always get a kick out of your humor even if you do come off a bit harsh sometimes (poor Artosis LOL).
I'm just a rando to you, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I've been following the BW scene pretty much non-stop since 2005 or so, even when SC2 was at it's height. These are just my perceptions, and I also have not read this whole thread, just bits here and there.
I personally didn't think you were angry during the interview, because I've seen your casting often enough. I do remember people in the twitch chat were saying you were salty, and this can turn into a feedback loop for viewers, but I didn't necessarily get that vibe. What I did see was discomfort in the translator. That's where I saw the tension. It was visible, and it bled off on Larva.
This information on the interpreter is post event lol. I had no idea who he was or how good he was. I also had no idea how good his translating was as I don't have a running translator rank in my robotic eye from sky net.
This quote from you is the most telling of anything IMO. Why didn't you know anything about him? Why do I still know nothing about him? It doesn't speak to you specifically, but to organizers, and casters in general, treating translators as a secondary "means to an end". In other words, they're just here to move words back and forth. Isn't this kind of sad? It's not just a thing between you and this translator. All the translators seem to get this kind of treatment from everyone. For example, why don't I know the name of the woman who was translating for Legend? She appeared on the couch multiple times, but never got an introduction.
I'm not saying you guys are explicitly disrespecting them, just not showing them much love for the value they are bringing. I'm saying we should get to know them a little bit. I would argue that if a translator is necessary to communicate with the player, they are the second most important person on the couch. Right? So it should be obvious, as casters you would want to build some rapport with them so they feel more comfortable. It's not always about how good the translator is. Sometimes things you say just don't translate, like inside jokes. And it leaves the translator, who already feels alienated, baffled, like "what am I missing here?", so he asks the wrong question, "Larva, how much do you weigh?". Often, it felt like you guys were just talking at the translator, saying things like "yeah, translate that specifically", in an almost demanding way, without asking if it would translate at all. As a viewer, I didn't like that. And I don't think it was anything malicious from you guys, it's just not something you think about often, but you should.
I feel like you are getting a lot of heat for something that is ultimately a shared responsibility of casters. It's not all on you.
But anyway, don't want to leave it sour. I really am glad to see you casting some BW again man. Overall really good stuff this weekend. Also, just wanted to say, the SC:R launch event was insanely fun and memorable. Thanks for the cast!
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On December 06 2017 01:17 FunkyLich wrote:Hey iNcontroL, thanks for the cast. The whole weekend was a blast, and I always get a kick out of your humor even if you do come off a bit harsh sometimes (poor Artosis LOL). I'm just a rando to you, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I've been following the BW scene pretty much non-stop since 2005 or so, even when SC2 was at it's height. These are just my perceptions, and I also have not read this whole thread, just bits here and there. I personally didn't think you were angry during the interview, because I've seen your casting often enough. I do remember people in the twitch chat were saying you were salty, and this can turn into a feedback loop for viewers, but I didn't necessarily get that vibe. What I did see was discomfort in the translator. That's where I saw the tension. It was visible, and it bled off on Larva. Show nested quote +This information on the interpreter is post event lol. I had no idea who he was or how good he was. I also had no idea how good his translating was as I don't have a running translator rank in my robotic eye from sky net. This quote from you is the most telling of anything IMO. Why didn't you know anything about him? Why do I still know nothing about him? It doesn't speak to you specifically, but to organizers, and casters in general, treating translators as a secondary "means to an end". In other words, they're just here to move words back and forth. Isn't this kind of sad? It's not just a thing between you and this translator. All the translators seem to get this kind of treatment from everyone. For example, why don't I know the name of the woman who was translating for Legend? She appeared on the couch multiple times, but never got an introduction. I'm not saying you guys are explicitly disrespecting them, just not showing them much love for the value they are bringing. I'm saying we should get to know them a little bit. I would argue that if a translator is necessary to communicate with the player, they are the second most important person on the couch. Right? So it should be obvious, as casters you would want to build some rapport with them so they feel more comfortable. It's not always about how good the translator is. Sometimes things you say just don't translate, like inside jokes. And it leaves the translator, who already feels alienated, baffled, like "what am I missing here?", so he asks the wrong question, "Larva, how much do you weigh?". Often, it felt like you guys were just talking at the translator, saying things like "yeah, translate that specifically", in an almost demanding way, without asking if it would translate at all. As a viewer, I didn't like that. And I don't think it was anything malicious from you guys, it's just not something you think about often, but you should. I feel like you are getting a lot of heat for something that is ultimately a shared responsibility of casters. It's not all on you. But anyway, don't want to leave it sour. I really am glad to see you casting some BW again man. Overall really good stuff this weekend. Also, just wanted to say, the SC:R launch event was insanely fun and memorable. Thanks for the cast!
Not to mention, a lot of the translator in the gaming event may not be professional translator who also happen to know the scene and game well, and the memes. I personally translated for some of the Chinese player in Seattle back in WCG 2007 Grand Final. My English by no mean was anywhere near perfect at the time, plus...... the first time doing this kind of thing, stage frights, hello o.O? xDD It's actually a hard job when you are not professional..... at it, it can be overwhelming what is asked of you on camera. I was especially embarrassed when translating from a Russian reporter( who spoke English with an accent I had a hard time understanding), yeah I had to ask him to repeat his question 3 times every time before I can finally make sense of it..... >.<. I hope as there are more funding given to the events these days, they can at least get decent translator who are somewhat more professional than what I was. xDD
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Starcraft would be worse off without Larva or Incontrol. Thanks for making things fun boys.
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Good write-up, iNcontroL! I enjoyed casters, players and the event as a whole. I see no reason for any drama.
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Just lol at anyone judging Inc for his conduct and jokes. Inc has done so much for the foreign scene, reaching a helping hand to even the lowest of the low players back in the day. Much like Larva he delivered exactly what he always delivers and on a much more demanding schedule for him. The amount of people getting riled up because they didn't personally enjoy or maybe understand something that Inc said or did is hilarious.
So common for people to provide a service and the loudest voices being criticism and judgment that it has almost lost meaning online. Respect to Inc for this thread and his patient responses. Remember that it is 1% of the population making 99% of the complaints and fuss. Keep doing what you're doing.
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The grammar and culture of language is really different between English and Korean. You can misunderstand anytime if you don't have any experience of one of those.
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This statement is confusing in regards to its intent and reads a bit like a cop out. I think it's pretty obvious Geoff was upset at Larva's antics and anyone watching would reasonably come to that conclusion.
It's okay to be upset, dude. It's okay to be annoyed with Larva and to be of the opinion that his actions surpassed the acceptable norm of what we call "BM". It's also okay for large sections of the community to disagree with and even criticize that reaction. But you should stand your ground and explain how and why you were annoyed or admit that it was a mistake and apologize if you see fit. Either way, if you're going to make a statement like this, at least acknowledge the reality of the situation. This "I was grumpy because I was tired but definitely wasn't mad and was only joking but Larva was being a hypocrite" type of excuse only serves to satisfy your own need to try and exonerate yourself while failing to address the truth of the matter.
You obviously care what the community thinks as evidenced by the fact that you felt the need to make this statement at all, so why not use the opportunity to just be honest with yourself and your audience. No one whose opinion is worth a damn is going to fault you for it.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
The above is a "I posted this on Reddit but nobody cared" repost. He even made a new account to do it lol
Be gone troll.
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On December 05 2017 12:53 iNcontroL wrote:
You give a lot of advice for a guy who has never been in the position you think you are able to advise on mate.
he's obviously over the top with that post, but come on. You asked an overweight dude how much his thigh weighs, with zero context. He didn't hear you mention it on your cast. It just comes out of the blue.
It's nitpicking though! Loved the cast.
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On December 06 2017 15:47 MamiyaOtaru wrote:
he's obviously over the top with that post, but come on. You asked an overweight dude how much his thigh weighs, with zero context. He didn't hear you mention it on your cast. It just comes out of the blue.
He put his foot up on the desk. I'd say that's sufficient context.
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The above is a "I posted this on Reddit but nobody cared" repost. He even made a new account to do it lol
Be gone troll.
I don't see the relevance of the fact that my post was posted elsewhere. I posted it here because I wanted to participate in the more thorough conversation happening here.
Don't you see how this kind of attitude is part of the problem? I'm making a perfectly valid point and your response is to intentionally mislabel it as trolling. Either ignore what I'm saying or argue against it, but don't accuse it of being something it isn't just so you can leverage your status here to dismiss criticism.
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On December 06 2017 16:11 Anticreativity wrote:Show nested quote +The above is a "I posted this on Reddit but nobody cared" repost. He even made a new account to do it lol
Be gone troll.
I don't see the relevance of the fact that my post was posted elsewhere. I posted it here because I wanted to participate in the more thorough conversation happening here. Don't you see how this kind of attitude is part of the problem? I'm making a perfectly valid point and your response is to intentionally mislabel it as trolling. Either ignore what I'm saying or argue against it, but don't accuse it of being something it isn't just so you can leverage your status here to dismiss criticism.
You start your initial post by basically saying that Geoff is confusing because he doesn't say the things you've decided that he feels/felt. And then you go on for the rest of your post expanding on that. Not that I know what he's thinking, but bottom line is that it doesn't really help much to discuss with you when you've already decided not to hear what he has to say.
The relevance of it being posted elsewhere, is that some people are so focused on voicing their opinion, rather than being interested in what has happened. So basically, it's an indication that it's more important for you to tell Geoff that he was mad, than actually listen to him about what transpired.
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Let's be honest... you were med.
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You start your initial post by basically saying that Geoff is confusing because he doesn't say the things you've decided that he feels/felt. And then you go on for the rest of your post expanding on that. Not that I know what he's thinking, but bottom line is that it doesn't really help much to discuss with you when you've already decided not to hear what he has to say.
The relevance of it being posted elsewhere, is that some people are so focused on voicing their opinion, rather than being interested in what has happened. So basically, it's an indication that it's more important for you to tell Geoff that he was mad, than actually listen to him about what transpired.
No, I said it was confusing because he seems to make an excuse for an emotion he later claims to have not been acting on. And it's not "deciding not to hear what he has to say", I read what he had to say and I found it disingenuous.
And I don't see how my posting this on reddit indicates that I'm more concerned with voicing my opinion than hearing his. In actuality, like I already said, I posted it here because the conversation here is much more thorough and Geoff himself is actually taking part. Besides, even if I was guilty of only posting it here just to ensure it met Geoff's eyes, that still doesn't constitute "trolling" since there was nothing about my post that was meant to upset anyone or be detrimental to the discourse at large. Essentially, what your saying here is that if you are anything less than in full agreement with Geoff that you shouldn't bother posting here and that's a strange stance to take on a discussion forum.
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On December 06 2017 17:32 Anticreativity wrote:Show nested quote +You start your initial post by basically saying that Geoff is confusing because he doesn't say the things you've decided that he feels/felt. And then you go on for the rest of your post expanding on that. Not that I know what he's thinking, but bottom line is that it doesn't really help much to discuss with you when you've already decided not to hear what he has to say.
The relevance of it being posted elsewhere, is that some people are so focused on voicing their opinion, rather than being interested in what has happened. So basically, it's an indication that it's more important for you to tell Geoff that he was mad, than actually listen to him about what transpired. No, I said it was confusing because he seems to make an excuse for an emotion he later claims to have not been acting on. And it's not "deciding not to hear what he has to say", I read what he had to say and I found it disingenuous.
So you made an assumption about what he was thinking and feeling. Geoff posted what he was thinking and feeling and it's not what you thought. You choose not to believe his explanation.
Okay. That's okay, that's valid. But there's nothing left to discuss beyond that, is there? If you don't believe him, then nothing he says will change your mind. Conversely, it's not like you can change anyone's mind by essentially implying you know better than Geoff what he was thinking and feeling at that time. (I mean feel free to try, but you'd look quite silly)
There literally is no discussion to be had at this point and beyond.
If you insist otherwise, then you give me reason to believe that you only made these posts to start an internet argument and then try not to lose it even if it's nonsensical or impossible to begin with, meaning that you are not arguing in good faith but just for the sake of "gotcha"-ing Geoff or others.
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So you made an assumption about what he was thinking and feeling. Geoff posted what he was thinking and feeling and it's not what you thought. You choose not to believe his explanation.
Okay. That's okay, that's valid. But there's nothing left to discuss beyond that, is there? If you don't believe him, then nothing he says will change your mind. Conversely, it's not like you can change anyone's mind by essentially implying you know better than Geoff what he was thinking and feeling at that time. (I mean feel free to try, but you'd look quite silly)
There literally is no discussion to be had at this point and beyond.
If you insist otherwise, then you give me reason to believe that you only made these posts to start an internet argument and then try not to lose it even if it's nonsensical or impossible to begin with, meaning that you are not arguing in good faith but just for the sake of "gotcha"-ing Geoff or others.
But see, the thing is that my entire involvement in this discussion has been simply posting my reply to his statement, being called a troll for it and then defending against that accusation. I haven't insisted on anything else from Geoff and I haven't pushed this conversation beyond any reasonable boundary. Indeed, I haven't been able to get it past the initial stage of simply posting my reply seeing as every subsequent post has been for the sake of clarifying my intentions which some people here seem weirdly insistent on labeling as disruptive or trolling.
If there's nothing left to discuss then there's nothing left to discuss when it comes to Geoff's statement, but you can't sit there and act like I'm being unreasonable when literally the only thing I've done other than make my initial opinion known is defend myself against baseless accusations in regards to my intent.
This, to me, is clearly just a case of an insular community's bias in favor of one of their own against an 'outsider'. All I'm doing is disagreeing and being called a troll for it, then when I explain that I'm not a troll I get accused of being too insistent. Do you have to have clout to be allowed to disagree or something?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
"All I'm doing is saying I know the intentions of a guy better than that guy does then acting flabbergasted each time someone tells me that is silly" - some reddit guy probably
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"I act like I'm mad the whole finals then proceed to interview the champion with a deadpan angry face asking him weird questions to the point he felt like I'm mad af too then I'm calling trolls everyone questioning my words." - INcontroL
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On December 07 2017 05:00 ppp87 wrote:
"I act like I'm mad the whole finals then proceed to interview the champion with a deadpan angry face asking him weird questions to the point he felt like I'm mad af too then I'm calling trolls everyone questioning my words." - INcontroL
i propose a grudgematch.
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Have not watched the vods, but I've been around the scene just long enough to know that peoples' reactions were definitely out of proportion. It is silly you have to even make this statement, but good on you for doing so, even if it is just out of respect for the people you represent--not saying that is in any way the case, though!
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On December 07 2017 05:00 ppp87 wrote:
"I act like I'm mad the whole finals then proceed to interview the champion with a deadpan angry face asking him weird questions to the point he felt like I'm mad af too then I'm calling trolls everyone questioning my words." - INcontroL
Well, given that hes been doing that for YEARS and everyone knows incontrol...not really as mockable as you make it seem...
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Honestly I'm pretty disappointed in INcontroL after all this. I've been playing SC since I was just a kid and I've been following the pro scene since before SC2's release. I even competed in and briefly met Geoff at MLG Orlando in 2011 (he was a nice guy). So, no, I'm not just "some reddit guy", I'm a legitimate member of the Starcraft community with a valid point that has yet to be addressed because apparently what's more important is what kind of legitimacy I can claim in regards to my experience within the community.
It's sad to me that not only can he not own up to and recognize his actions during the Zotac finals, but then questions anyone that disagrees with him not on the basis of their arguments but on how insignificant they are to the scene, relying on the insular nature of the community to be his shield against criticism. It's just kind of unbecoming of a man in his 30's to use the same diversionary and mocking tactics that are more suitable to arguments among children, especially when the target of those tactics merely dared to disagree with him in the least inflammatory way possible.
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On December 07 2017 23:33 Anticreativity wrote:
Honestly I'm pretty disappointed in INcontroL after all this. I've been playing SC since I was just a kid and I've been following the pro scene since before SC2's release. I even competed in and briefly met Geoff at MLG Orlando in 2011 (he was a nice guy). So, no, I'm not just "some reddit guy", I'm a legitimate member of the Starcraft community with a valid point that has yet to be addressed because apparently what's more important is what kind of legitimacy I can claim in regards to my experience within the community.
It's sad to me that not only can he not own up to and recognize his actions during the Zotac finals, but then questions anyone that disagrees with him not on the basis of their arguments but on how insignificant they are to the scene, relying on the insular nature of the community to be his shield against criticism. It's just kind of unbecoming of a man in his 30's to use the same diversionary and mocking tactics that are more suitable to arguments among children, especially when the target of those tactics merely dared to disagree with him in the least inflammatory way possible.
As far as I'm concerned, your points weren't valid since you claimed to know better than him how he felt. You write to him telling him how he's copping out because he says he wasn't mad. Or did you phrase yourself poorly? Or maybe misunderstand when it comes to the difference between him not being impressed by the troll antics, and him pointing out that he wasn't mad?
When it comes to being an "outsider"; being an outsider is irrelevant. What is relevant, is when you post it on reddit, don't get the response you wanted, then (seemingly) create an account for the primary purpose of posting the same post here in the forum. And it's not like you present yourself like you're open or truly listen to what he has to say. You're stating that he's wrong in saying that he wasn't mad, because you saw he was mad. And when we point out that that you've misinterpreted his body language etc., you seem to claim that everyone else is wrong and you're still correct in saying that he was mad.
You're not a victim of some group mentality going wrong. You're either a victim of not being able to communicate what you want to say. Or you're simply wrong and won't admit it. The first choice can be remedied and I'm down to really hear you out and try better to understand. The latter is mostly on you. However, I do agree that simply calling you a troll and such isn't too constructive. I can understand the frustration and such, but it's not really my cup of tea to respond that way.
So I'm in no way in the iNcontroL fanboy harem, thinking all he does is right. I'm simply thankful for all he's done and didn't perceive him as mad or angry at all. He didn't do anything wrong during the casting. He was just...iNcontroL(L).
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Bingo. The post above nails it. Thank you btw.. years ago I lost the patience to explain and defend myself at that detail for matters like these.
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On December 07 2017 23:33 Anticreativity wrote:
Honestly I'm pretty disappointed in INcontroL after all this. I've been playing SC since I was just a kid and I've been following the pro scene since before SC2's release. I even competed in and briefly met Geoff at MLG Orlando in 2011 (he was a nice guy). So, no, I'm not just "some reddit guy", I'm a legitimate member of the Starcraft community with a valid point that has yet to be addressed because apparently what's more important is what kind of legitimacy I can claim in regards to my experience within the community.
It's sad to me that not only can he not own up to and recognize his actions during the Zotac finals, but then questions anyone that disagrees with him not on the basis of their arguments but on how insignificant they are to the scene, relying on the insular nature of the community to be his shield against criticism. It's just kind of unbecoming of a man in his 30's to use the same diversionary and mocking tactics that are more suitable to arguments among children, especially when the target of those tactics merely dared to disagree with him in the least inflammatory way possible.
incontrol has met hundreds, maybe thousands of SC:BW players. So, even if what you're saying is true, meeting him briefly is not going to give you an accurate picture of who he is, or who anyone is. So, to go, "I'm disappointed. I thought he was a nice guy." because you met him once is ridiculous. Like, say I went to a LAN and met someone from StarCraft and they were having a bad day, or just had an awkward moment where they said something weird and unsettling as a joke. I might think that person didn't like me or was rude in general. That one-time meeting wouldn't change who they actually are overall.
If you've been a part of the StarCraft community for awhile, then you should already know how iNcontrol is. If someone says some shit, he's gonna say some shit back. So, you come in here and say "I think you were legitimately mad." when he specifically said he wasn't mad, you MUST know that it's not going to go over well. That's why people are saying you're trolling. Because you won't let this go for some reason. Either you're too stubborn to admit you might be wrong, or you're deliberately trying to piss iNcontrol off.
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On December 08 2017 01:25 iNcontroL wrote:
Bingo. The post above nails it. Thank you btw.. years ago I lost the patience to explain and defend myself at that detail for matters like these.
Cheers. Feels kinda weird writing about you to someone else in a thread you've made, though. The hope is to lighten some of the burden of having to take the time, although I'm not really certain if I'm getting it all correct either. I'm kinda hoping you'll spank me if I do, so as to not make any mistakes.
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Anticreativity... you fell for the bait. The first indication should have been that the thread was locked for quite awhile after it's inception. Also, you fell for the bait... it's iNcontrol... numerous incidents... he is invulnerable at this point.
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To be honest, I would watch a stream of Incontrol, Day9, Artosis, and Tasteless sitting on a couch talking about Starcraft for 22 hours straight even without any games of Starcraft in between. Watching that event made me feel suffused with happiness in a way that few things can match.
It's weird to me that a minor comment near the end of a long tournament gets all the focus when all I can think about is Incontrol comparing Artosis to Winona Ryder and then later seeing Artosis sitting on a couch with a string of Christmas lights shouting "Where's my boy?"
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That event was some of the most fun I have had in years (almost as good as the Launch event) the amount of fun banter you guys have back in forth is amazing. I would listen to you guys for hours and hours if i could. I have watched Incontrol for years, people who say he is mad either 1. have never watched him in any capacity more than like 5 seconds or 2. want drama SO DAMN BAD that they just cant handle themselves. Incontrol you are awesome love your deadpan style if goes so well against day9 and the rest. People just looooove to troll for drama lol
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On December 08 2017 03:55 MindBreaker wrote:
That event was some of the most fun I have had in years (almost as good as the Launch event) the amount of fun banter you guys have back in forth is amazing. I would listen to you guys for hours and hours if i could. I have watched Incontrol for years, people who say he is mad either 1. have never watched him in any capacity more than like 5 seconds or 2. want drama SO DAMN BAD that they just cant handle themselves. Incontrol you are awesome love your deadpan style if goes so well against day9 and the rest. People just looooove to troll for drama lol
I thought he was mad and I've watched him for many hours on casts and Rollplay. Not that it matters, but it's kind of bullshit how people are saying that one couldn't possibly think he was mad if they were familiar with him, or that they're lying just to make drama.
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many people thought inc was mad.this is the only reason he specifically made a thread explaining the whole thing,and making clear he wasnt mad.
The most interesting part for me is that now we have mad people cuz inc wasnt mad and they are trying to prove no matter what that inc was mad.seriously guys...How can you even spend 10 seconds on this shit after the person involved made it very clear.
now is a fucking crime that inc wasnt mad so we need to show the world that he was really mad.
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Why does Inc mad or not matter? I mean he has the right to go either way?
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But he was mad like he was mad in a previous show so, some ppl can see it some not.
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Only person that doesn't think Incontrol was mad was Incontrol.
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Canada11294 Posts
On December 08 2017 07:52 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Only person that doesn't think Incontrol was mad was Incontrol.
Oh, ok. Thanks for presuming to speak for all of us. lol
Why people think it's so necessary to argue that iNcontroL is lying, I don't know. Just let it go.
edit.
On another note- that pictionary thing was hilarious. Artosis should draw more
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On December 08 2017 04:01 Starlightsun wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 03:55 MindBreaker wrote:
That event was some of the most fun I have had in years (almost as good as the Launch event) the amount of fun banter you guys have back in forth is amazing. I would listen to you guys for hours and hours if i could. I have watched Incontrol for years, people who say he is mad either 1. have never watched him in any capacity more than like 5 seconds or 2. want drama SO DAMN BAD that they just cant handle themselves. Incontrol you are awesome love your deadpan style if goes so well against day9 and the rest. People just looooove to troll for drama lol I thought he was mad and I've watched him for many hours on casts and Rollplay. Not that it matters, but it's kind of bullshit how people are saying that one couldn't possibly think he was mad if they were familiar with him, or that they're lying just to make drama.
Does not being impressed by certain actions mean that one is mad about it?
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From some of the butthurt comments in this thread I thought incontrol did something really bad but then I watched it and it was totally fine, normal incontrol humour. The translator and Larva both clearly knew the thigh question was a joke and it was not a big deal.I can't believe that people are mad that a guy who just spent 45 minutes trolling the shit out of his opponent got asked a joke question. Seriously some of you need to get a grip.
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On December 08 2017 14:26 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 07:52 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Only person that doesn't think Incontrol was mad was Incontrol. Oh, ok. Thanks for presuming to speak for all of us. lol Why people think it's so necessary to argue that iNcontroL is lying, I don't know. Just let it go. edit. On another note- that pictionary thing was hilarious. Artosis should draw more
Finally someone with things that matter! I was crying how hard I laughed to Artosis and Nick's skills in pictionary are like godlike dragon micro of Bisu :D :D :D
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On December 08 2017 16:26 tomatriedes wrote:
From some of the butthurt comments in this thread I thought incontrol did something really bad but then I watched it and it was totally fine, normal incontrol humour. The translator and Larva both clearly knew the thigh question was a joke and it was not a big deal.I can't believe that people are mad that a guy who just spent 45 minutes trolling the shit out of his opponent got asked a joke question. Seriously some of you need to get a grip.
Exactly. Incontrol tbh I do not really like your casting all that much, but you don't even have to write up an explanation for such a minor issue to try and appease some pussies/people with far too much spare time.
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You're either a victim of not being able to communicate what you want to say. Or you're simply wrong and won't admit it.
Or, here's an idea, maybe Geoff isn't a perfect human and is susceptible to being disingenuous about his own flaws when under public scrutiny. That's what baffles me about this whole thing, you guys are acting like just because someone says something about themselves that it then becomes indisputable truth and anyone who disagrees is just too stupid to articulate their argument or is too stubborn to admit they're wrong. You're attempting to rob my argument of validity simply because of your admiration for Geoff.
You're stating that he's wrong in saying that he wasn't mad, because you saw he was mad. And when we point out that that you've misinterpreted his body language etc., you seem to claim that everyone else is wrong and you're still correct in saying that he was mad.
Actually, no one has said anything of the sort. That's kind of the point I've been making over and over again, that no one has even attempted to actually argue against any of the points I'm making and instead just focusing on what my intent is. I really don't understand why that's the case, it's like we're reading different pages or something. You're just pretending we've had a discussion we never had and acting like I haven't just spent every post trying to dispel this idea that I'm here to troll someone without ever actually getting to the point of my argument.
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Fair enough, I'll make a wall of text and try to understand fully.
On December 09 2017 00:15 Anticreativity wrote:Show nested quote +You're either a victim of not being able to communicate what you want to say. Or you're simply wrong and won't admit it. Or, here's an idea, maybe Geoff isn't a perfect human and is susceptible to being disingenuous about his own flaws when under public scrutiny. That's what baffles me about this whole thing, you guys are acting like just because someone says something about themselves that it then becomes indisputable truth and anyone who disagrees is just too stupid to articulate their argument or is too stubborn to admit they're wrong. You're attempting to rob my argument of validity simply because of your admiration for Geoff.
Yes, there's always the chance of people not being what they claim to be. I do however protest that I'm trying to rob your vailidty due to my admiration for Geoff. I do not admire him. I think he's doing a lot of great stuff and like him, but I'm not the kind of person who'll defend someone who's in the wrong simply because of something like that. Nevertheless, I cannot prove that to you. You'd have to know me, and until then I understand that you need to keep the option open that I might be just another fanboy. And that's fair. So I'll try to be as thorough as possible, to make it redundantly clear that I actually want to get to the bottom of it and to have a constructive outcome.
Show nested quote + You're stating that he's wrong in saying that he wasn't mad, because you saw he was mad. And when we point out that that you've misinterpreted his body language etc., you seem to claim that everyone else is wrong and you're still correct in saying that he was mad. Actually, no one has said anything of the sort. That's kind of the point I've been making over and over again, that no one has even attempted to actually argue against any of the points I'm making and instead just focusing on what my intent is. I really don't understand why that's the case, it's like we're reading different pages or something. You're just pretending we've had a discussion we never had and acting like I haven't just spent every post trying to dispel this idea that I'm here to troll someone without ever actually getting to the point of my argument.
This is where I'm getting confused. I'll quote your first post and point out why.
On December 06 2017 15:23 Anticreativity wrote:
This statement is confusing in regards to its intent and reads a bit like a cop out. I think it's pretty obvious Geoff was upset at Larva's antics and anyone watching would reasonably come to that conclusion.
This looks to me as though you find it confusing because it was obvious to you that he was mad/upset. And that his claiming to never have been mad is a cop out. Essentially that he's being dishonest, since anyone watch could see he was mad. Do I understand you correctly here? That your experience is that Geoff was mad, and now he's trying to hide the fact?
It's okay to be upset, dude. It's okay to be annoyed with Larva and to be of the opinion that his actions surpassed the acceptable norm of what we call "BM". It's also okay for large sections of the community to disagree with and even criticize that reaction. But you should stand your ground and explain how and why you were annoyed or admit that it was a mistake and apologize if you see fit. Either way, if you're going to make a statement like this, at least acknowledge the reality of the situation. This "I was grumpy because I was tired but definitely wasn't mad and was only joking but Larva was being a hypocrite" type of excuse only serves to satisfy your own need to try and exonerate yourself while failing to address the truth of the matter.
You obviously care what the community thinks as evidenced by the fact that you felt the need to make this statement at all, so why not use the opportunity to just be honest with yourself and your audience. No one whose opinion is worth a damn is going to fault you for it.
For the rest of the post, it seems as though your main point is that Geoff should be more honest with himself and let things go. And honestly, I think you mean well here. Being honest with yourself and others is good. And owning up to your mistakes is even better. So as I understand here, you want Geoff to own up to his mistake, take it like a man and then we can all just move on? I might be missing the mark here, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
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I suggest we introduce esports Oscars. Inc gets Oscar for best actor, Larva's foot gets the one for best 'special effects'.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
The ironic thing is he wasnt mad to begin with, but he likely is now because nobody is believing him.
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Canada11294 Posts
Okay Anticreativity. As far as I can tell, you've signed up on TL for the express purpose of arguing in this thread. You've now said your piece many times over. Time to drop it and move on to the rest of TL- we don't need a pitbull with lockjaw in this topic.
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On December 09 2017 01:20 Falling wrote:
Okay Anticreativity. As far as I can tell, you've signed up on TL for the express purpose of arguing in this thread. You've now said your piece many times over. Time to drop it and move on to the rest of TL- we don't need a pitbull with lockjaw in this topic.
I totally agree with everything except the lockjaw, pit bull jaws don't lock, they function the same as other breeds. It's a myth that's been proven false.
#free pit bulls
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Canada11294 Posts
Haha. Metaphor fail.
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On December 08 2017 16:24 craz3d wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 04:01 Starlightsun wrote:On December 08 2017 03:55 MindBreaker wrote:
That event was some of the most fun I have had in years (almost as good as the Launch event) the amount of fun banter you guys have back in forth is amazing. I would listen to you guys for hours and hours if i could. I have watched Incontrol for years, people who say he is mad either 1. have never watched him in any capacity more than like 5 seconds or 2. want drama SO DAMN BAD that they just cant handle themselves. Incontrol you are awesome love your deadpan style if goes so well against day9 and the rest. People just looooove to troll for drama lol I thought he was mad and I've watched him for many hours on casts and Rollplay. Not that it matters, but it's kind of bullshit how people are saying that one couldn't possibly think he was mad if they were familiar with him, or that they're lying just to make drama. Does not being impressed by certain actions mean that one is mad about it?
Of course not. But his body language and tone of voice seemed mad. However being exhausted can also account for it. Anyway it's not important, just like the foot incident.
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Okay Anticreativity. As far as I can tell, you've signed up on TL for the express purpose of arguing in this thread. You've now said your piece many times over. Time to drop it and move on to the rest of TL- we don't need a pitbull with lockjaw in this topic.
Ugh, please stop perpetuating this idea that I've said my piece "many times over" or that I'm being stubborn in my argument. I literally have only made my initial argument and then proceeded to defend myself against trolling accusations the whole rest of the time. I'm not going to "drop" someone equating my disagreement with trolling. I don't know how I can make this any clearer than I already have.
This looks to me as though you find it confusing because it was obvious to you that he was mad/upset. And that his claiming to never have been mad is a cop out. Essentially that he's being dishonest, since anyone watch could see he was mad. Do I understand you correctly here? That your experience is that Geoff was mad, and now he's trying to hide the fact?
Yes, pretty much. But when I say "confusing" I'm referring to the fact that he attempts to excuse himself for things he later claims to not be guilty of. Why explain how long your day was and how tired you were if not to excuse your poor mood that you later claim to not be subject to?
For the rest of the post, it seems as though your main point is that Geoff should be more honest with himself and let things go. And honestly, I think you mean well here. Being honest with yourself and others is good. And owning up to your mistakes is even better. So as I understand here, you want Geoff to own up to his mistake, take it like a man and then we can all just move on? I might be missing the mark here, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
That's exactly right. I personally think he was upset and that it's fairly obvious. It was obvious to me, who has followed the community and Geoff's participation in it for 7 years, and it was obvious to my gf who's completely unfamiliar with Geoff and who watched the event with me. I don't blame him or anyone else watching for being upset at Larva, I don't care that he was trolling Larva in the interview, I feel that he acted perfectly within reason despite the fact that I personally enjoyed what Larva did. The only thing I take issue with is that I feel like his post was dishonest and therefore patronizing to the community. It just read like someone engaging in a self-serving form of damage control with the audience's agreement being a foregone conclusion. That's the reason I made the post on reddit and that's the reason I posted it here when I realized that I had come to the reddit thread much too late to get any kind of response, whether it be from Geoff or anyone else willing to challenge or validate what I said. I just wanted to be the guy to say "hey, I don't really buy this, what do you guys think?" That's why I posted it here after the reddit thread and why I've been so adamant about defending myself against the trolling accusations. All I wanted to do was have that discussion and was never given the opportunity because I've spent the entire time here trying to convince everyone of my perfectly reasonable intention: to have a discussion on a discussion forum.
User was warned for ignoring moderator request.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
nah. You are ignoring all of the responses and lumping them in with "defending that I am not a troll" which is comical because it's exactly what you accuse me of.. you think my argument is 1 dimensional and generic then do that to the handful of people who are trying to engage an admittedly incredibly shallow conversation starter of "geoff is being dishonest does anyone agree with me?" (lol)
Just move on man. What WOULD you accept anyways? Someone going "yeah he was mad. I agree with you. I don't like that he excused himself as being tired but then denies he acted... mad" or something? OK some people said as much! Happy? No? Why? If you aren't a troll you are just a really really stubborn person who has the incredibly common internet problem of wanting affirmation for their post while not accepting that it may be incorrect or dumb.
The drama is over anyways man. Wait until the next time a bunch of people are mad at me and you can jump back in and question my motives.. it'll be next year when I start up my talk show with Artosis. Plenty of opportunities there mate.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On December 09 2017 04:57 iNcontroL wrote:
nah. You are ignoring all of the responses and lumping them in with "defending that I am not a troll" which is comical because it's exactly what you accuse me of.. you think my argument is 1 dimensional and generic then do that to the handful of people who are trying to engage an admittedly incredibly shallow conversation starter of "geoff is being dishonest does anyone agree with me?" (lol)
Just move on man. What WOULD you accept anyways? Someone going "yeah he was mad. I agree with you. I don't like that he excused himself as being tired but then denies he acted... mad" or something? OK some people said as much! Happy? No? Why? If you aren't a troll you are just a really really stubborn person who has the incredibly common internet problem of wanting affirmation for their post while not accepting that it may be incorrect or dumb.
The drama is over anyways man. Wait until the next time a bunch of people are mad at me and you can jump back in and question my motives.. it'll be next year when I start up my talk show with Artosis. Plenty of opportunities there mate.
Personal request for a funny segment, can you get all the funny clips of artosis getting mad on stream and question him about it? 
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TFW the author of a thread is addressing you directly and it's literally against the rules for you to respond.
lol
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i have to say only 1 TL admins dont respect all ppl when good players bm in TL they dont have any warning or ban + when non know user say something wrong in 1min warning or ban ! why ? did u racist guys ?or what ?
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On December 09 2017 06:32 aiwekas wrote:
i have to say only 1 TL admins dont respect all ppl when good players bm in TL they dont have any warning or ban + when non know user say something wrong in 1min warning or ban ! why ? did u racist guys ?or what ? Why are you posting about that in this thread? No good players flamed anyone...and why should top players, established community members etc, not be given preference over some no name? And how is that racist???
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so if u are non know user u can be warning or get ban ? and if u are good player anything u say in TL = no care ? i think its not fear,i remember eonzerg say something bad about bonyth ( and dont even get warning ) + when non know user say something about good(non good) user bad in 1min warning and u telling me its fear ?
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36937 Posts
On December 09 2017 06:19 Anticreativity wrote:
TFW the author of a thread is addressing you directly and it's literally against the rules for you to respond.
lol
If you want to respond to iNcontroL then go right ahead. We won't penalize you for responding to him. I will personally moderate this thread myself.
However, don't be surprised if iNcontroL doesn't even bother responding back. It seems pretty clear to me and to mostly everyone else here that iNcontroL knows best how iNcontroL was feeling that day. And he has no obligations whatsoever to respond to people who are trying to tell him otherwise.
But, seeing as how you posted this:
Ugh, please stop perpetuating this idea that I've said my piece "many times over" or that I'm being stubborn in my argument. I literally have only made my initial argument and then proceeded to defend myself against trolling accusations the whole rest of the time. I'm not going to "drop" someone equating my disagreement with trolling. I don't know how I can make this any clearer than I already have.
Fair enough. Get it all out then. Say all that's on your mind. We are giving you the chance you want to say what you really feel like you need to say. So take it.
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wow cannot believe stuff like this requires a post from INcontrol. You are the best caster ever imo, never stop being funny
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Just rewatch the bo5 and listen carefully what INcontroL is saying during the games, it's obvious he's mad for some unknown reasons. Then watch the post match interview, why casters are even allowed to "troll" (I'm using INcontroL's word here) bw biggest world stars like Larva ? That's something I dont understand... I have nothing personnal against INcontroL because I dont know him even if I'm following bw korean scene since forever but it's obvious something went wrong. Why casters are allowed to bm players ? They are not the stars, players are, they are only casters. Just do your castezr job, dont bm players with a deadpan angry straight face, period.
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United States10081 Posts
On December 09 2017 06:19 Anticreativity wrote:
TFW the author of a thread is addressing you directly and it's literally against the rules for you to respond.
lol
you're on a short leash. lets not push it. reread our commandments.
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When will incontrol start to act like a grownup? I'm really tired of him and his "humor".
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i think he did a fairly good job at the iem pyeongchang panel where he participated in discussions with top guys from esl, intel and blizzard (mike morhaime himself!)
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On December 09 2017 04:57 iNcontroL wrote:
What WOULD you accept anyways? Someone going "yeah he was mad. I agree with you. I don't like that he excused himself as being tired but then denies he acted... mad" or something? OK some people said as much! Happy? No? Why? If you aren't a troll you are just a really really stubborn person who has the incredibly common internet problem of wanting affirmation for their post while not accepting that it may be incorrect or dumb.
I'm going to explain because apparently there's something you don't want to understand. This person (AntiCreative), since he has known you for a while and apparently likes you, has a certain view regarding who you "are" and how you behave (it's not a crime although it might be annoying). And he has been disappointed to see what he considers dishonnesty (or coping out) in your statement regarding your state of mind during the Bo5 and afterwards.
Now, i had moved on from this "drama" (logically), but seeing the thread is still active (...), allow me to point out that i made the same remark page 1 (which you didn't adress).
On December 05 2017 05:06 Eleonora wrote:
I'm not sure people care that much about what you did overall in the cast. I personnally enjoyed all the jabs you were throwing at Artosis regarding the easyness of playing Terran, but what people, i believe, didn't get, is why you had to act as such a "party popper" once Larva started trolling.
As early as game 1 you weren't "having it" (as you said), that's your right, but why exactly ? You would have preferred the boredom of a 3 - 0 stomp with nothing to talk about ?
I do agree with you that people totally overreact about your supposed state of "madness" during the event, but in any case, you tried over and over to break the fun the others had, and it's hard to really understand why. If you know anything about Larva, you know that the guy doesn't take himself seriously and does that kind of stuff in a cheeky/joyful way, not as a mean to humiliate someone he dislikes.
Very simple explanation as to why people thought you were mad afterwards... the rest of what you did during the cast is a non-issue here.
And i'm pretty sure that if you did (yeah sorry "oh he didn't answer my post that was important", actually not that much but i'm seeing the same conversation 7 pages later so...), this would have... sorted part of the "issue" some people seem to have with your behavior (i almost don't, except for what i'm about to say).
There is a small number of people who simply feel that you didn't even mention your actual displeasement (let's not even the word "mad" which is just a stupid troll word) during the games in your statement. Which is why some (whether it's AntiCreative or MethodMan page 3 or whoever) now say "just admit it and stop bullshitting us".
Unlike the majority here, i almost don't know you and i liked most of what i've seen "from" you, i can safely say i'm pretty neutral in this case.
But as a neutral, don't even try to tell me you weren't displeased during the games. Just don't.
From the very beginning with the drone breakdancing to the final GG in game 3, you acted like super annoyed constantly. You were litteraly sitting next to people saying stuff like "He is a beautiful human being" "I'm so glad Larva is here", "I love it" (in response to your comment "bit of a jerk, right ?) and acted like a party popper over and over and over.
Which you are allowed to do, but gives kind of a weird feeling for someone watching. It's like going to see a comedian, having everybody around you dying of laughters and trying to break the mood repeatedely. What's the message you're sending doing that ? Let me enlight it for you : "this is not funny, you're all stupid".
See the problem (especially considering all 3 are you friends) ? Saying that you "weren't impressed" is a massive understatement.
This is already a long post for something that certainly won't impact my life heavily, so allow me to not list all the instances i'm talking about.
So really, it's pretty simple, you just had to say :
YES, i was very annoyed during Larva's games because on top of being tired, i had met Legend who is really a likeable and humble person, and i just felt bad for him and for the way Larva was actually humiliating him (even if it wasn't on purpose, in a mean way, but simply for fun).
I wasn't amused, and i felt my co-casters were kinda overreacting, which is why i made some comments here and there during the games.
But i wasn't in the state of anger people are trying to portray, and coming to the interview i had mostly moved on.
I didn't aim at expressing any kind of frustration through my questions, I was trying to shift the conversation away from Legend in a humourous way, and I'm sorry if you didn't get it that way.
(At the very least AntiCreative, seeing how long this has been going on, i'd like to know if you would have been pleased with this answer.)
I am now going to forget about this story. Best luck to you moving forward and hoping to see you again in a future cast (hopefully featuring Larva).
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 09 2017 19:39 superjoppe wrote:
When will incontrol start to act like a grownup? I'm really tired of him and his "humor".
march 13th 2038 probably around 3:23pm
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I didn't read eleanora's comment again guys can someone retype it in sanscript and include pictures of cats so I can understand it better?
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United States10081 Posts
On December 10 2017 07:19 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2017 19:39 superjoppe wrote:
When will incontrol start to act like a grownup? I'm really tired of him and his "humor". march 13th 2038 probably around 3:23pm
Screencapped, saved, using a blackmail in the future.
On December 10 2017 07:21 iNcontroL wrote:
I didn't read eleanora's comment again guys can someone retype it in sanscript and include pictures of cats so I can understand it better?
I don't want to break the "english only" rules of the forum which I actually read unlike some other people in here. I also don't want to spam image macros because once again that goes against the commandments that some people here don't read. So I'll just give you one cat that seems to accurately represent the people complaining about you.
![[image loading]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/62/94/ae/6294ae8761914fc0e153b7917c7b4668--cat-health-girl-humor.jpg)
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Ok thank you that works.
I wish people saw themselves posting things like "Don't even try and tell me X (where X in this case is "you weren't mad") because it is such a ludicrous thing. Like, the entire premise for that anticreativity guy was that it isn't worth my time to "lie" about being mad or not being mad... so I should just save time and stop lying about how I was mad. Then this other person comes along and is like "I too saw you during the games.. DON'T TELL ME YOU WEREN'T INCENSED ABOUT IT CUZ YOU WERE."
I have nothing to lose or gain by being mad in this situation. I simply wasn't. I was tired, distracted and unimpressed by the antics. Trying to bully me into saying anything else is uniquely funny because I am the actual expert of how I felt in that situation. Also just as a person I am rather hard to get to admit to do things I don't feel is right..
Anyways. This drama has completely dried up and I am really only responding here to now troll the low-hanging fruit that is the random accounts that come in here trying to convince me I am lying or was actually mad at this whole thing which is not a big deal lol.
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On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:
...
Larva told his chat he was upset that I was trolling him and he felt like I was mad. He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
...
I think you are mistaking here, because he didn't like your chopstick comment (note that he didn't laugh and it was obvious that he felt a little offended). No matter how you translate that it will sound racist in the context of the conversation you were having. I don't think I need to explain why this can sound racist to Larva and I understand his reaction. It is good to have a laugh and to joke as long as there are certain boundaries in order to not turn a joke into an offence. It is possible that you did not intend to offend him, but that demonstrates certain lack of emotional intelligence in this case. Other than that, everything else was alright. My empathy goes to Legend a little, but Larva made it clear why he did what he did.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 10 2017 20:43 BulgarianToss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:
...
Larva told his chat he was upset that I was trolling him and he felt like I was mad. He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
...
I think you are mistaking here, because he didn't like your chopstick comment (note that he didn't laugh and it was obvious that he felt a little offended). No matter how you translate that it will sound racist in the context of the conversation you were having. I don't think I need to explain why this can sound racist to Larva and I understand his reaction. It is good to have a laugh and to joke as long as there are certain boundaries in order to not turn a joke into an offence. It is possible that you did not intend to offend him, but that demonstrates certain lack of emotional intelligence in this case. Other than that, everything else was alright. My empathy goes to Legend a little, but Larva made it clear why he did what he did.
English isn't your first language so I will forgive the misunderstanding on your part but you are off by several miles on this subject. It's actually been cleared up and discussed via larva and his stream that he wasn't offended at all.. it was korean netizens that were due to mistranslated lines then they understood. The chopsticks recommendation was an actual challenge done on the korean produced GSL
TLDR: Stfu plz
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United States10081 Posts
On December 10 2017 12:05 iNcontroL wrote:
Ok thank you that works.
I wish people saw themselves posting things like "Don't even try and tell me X (where X in this case is "you weren't mad") because it is such a ludicrous thing. Like, the entire premise for that anticreativity guy was that it isn't worth my time to "lie" about being mad or not being mad... so I should just save time and stop lying about how I was mad. Then this other person comes along and is like "I too saw you during the games.. DON'T TELL ME YOU WEREN'T INCENSED ABOUT IT CUZ YOU WERE."
I have nothing to lose or gain by being mad in this situation. I simply wasn't. I was tired, distracted and unimpressed by the antics. Trying to bully me into saying anything else is uniquely funny because I am the actual expert of how I felt in that situation. Also just as a person I am rather hard to get to admit to do things I don't feel is right..
Anyways. This drama has completely dried up and I am really only responding here to now troll the low-hanging fruit that is the random accounts that come in here trying to convince me I am lying or was actually mad at this whole thing which is not a big deal lol.
You see incontrol, these armchair analysts are far better at understanding you when they've never even met you in person than you know yourself for the over 30 years you've been alive.
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On December 11 2017 10:02 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2017 20:43 BulgarianToss wrote:On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:
...
Larva told his chat he was upset that I was trolling him and he felt like I was mad. He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
...
I think you are mistaking here, because he didn't like your chopstick comment (note that he didn't laugh and it was obvious that he felt a little offended). No matter how you translate that it will sound racist in the context of the conversation you were having. I don't think I need to explain why this can sound racist to Larva and I understand his reaction. It is good to have a laugh and to joke as long as there are certain boundaries in order to not turn a joke into an offence. It is possible that you did not intend to offend him, but that demonstrates certain lack of emotional intelligence in this case. Other than that, everything else was alright. My empathy goes to Legend a little, but Larva made it clear why he did what he did. English isn't your first language so I will forgive the misunderstanding on your part but you are off by several miles on this subject. It's actually been cleared up and discussed via larva and his stream that he wasn't offended at all.. it was korean netizens that were due to mistranslated lines then they understood. The chopsticks recommendation was an actual challenge done on the korean produced GSL TLDR: Stfu plz
And here's icontrol for you folks! Calling people idiots and telling them to “stfu“ since 2004. Some users are apparently more equal when it comes to the consequences of dishing out insults.
Idc about the whole larva/lx drama a bit and yeah it is funny how people argue here but:
Would it hurt you to stop insulting people incontrol?
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On December 11 2017 23:52 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2017 10:02 iNcontroL wrote:On December 10 2017 20:43 BulgarianToss wrote:On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:
...
Larva told his chat he was upset that I was trolling him and he felt like I was mad. He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
...
I think you are mistaking here, because he didn't like your chopstick comment (note that he didn't laugh and it was obvious that he felt a little offended). No matter how you translate that it will sound racist in the context of the conversation you were having. I don't think I need to explain why this can sound racist to Larva and I understand his reaction. It is good to have a laugh and to joke as long as there are certain boundaries in order to not turn a joke into an offence. It is possible that you did not intend to offend him, but that demonstrates certain lack of emotional intelligence in this case. Other than that, everything else was alright. My empathy goes to Legend a little, but Larva made it clear why he did what he did. English isn't your first language so I will forgive the misunderstanding on your part but you are off by several miles on this subject. It's actually been cleared up and discussed via larva and his stream that he wasn't offended at all.. it was korean netizens that were due to mistranslated lines then they understood. The chopsticks recommendation was an actual challenge done on the korean produced GSL TLDR: Stfu plz And here's icontrol for you folks! Calling people idiots and telling them to “stfu“ since 2004. Some users are apparently more equal when it comes to the consequences of dishing out insults. Idc about the whole larva/lx drama a bit and yeah it is funny how people argue here but:Would it hurt you to stop insulting people incontrol?
However, that is the context here and taking on iNcontroL as a person in general isn't really relevant to this topic. Stick to the topic, stop derailing.
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On December 12 2017 00:23 Incomplete..ReV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2017 23:52 Cele wrote:On December 11 2017 10:02 iNcontroL wrote:On December 10 2017 20:43 BulgarianToss wrote:On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:
...
Larva told his chat he was upset that I was trolling him and he felt like I was mad. He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
...
I think you are mistaking here, because he didn't like your chopstick comment (note that he didn't laugh and it was obvious that he felt a little offended). No matter how you translate that it will sound racist in the context of the conversation you were having. I don't think I need to explain why this can sound racist to Larva and I understand his reaction. It is good to have a laugh and to joke as long as there are certain boundaries in order to not turn a joke into an offence. It is possible that you did not intend to offend him, but that demonstrates certain lack of emotional intelligence in this case. Other than that, everything else was alright. My empathy goes to Legend a little, but Larva made it clear why he did what he did. English isn't your first language so I will forgive the misunderstanding on your part but you are off by several miles on this subject. It's actually been cleared up and discussed via larva and his stream that he wasn't offended at all.. it was korean netizens that were due to mistranslated lines then they understood. The chopsticks recommendation was an actual challenge done on the korean produced GSL TLDR: Stfu plz And here's icontrol for you folks! Calling people idiots and telling them to “stfu“ since 2004. Some users are apparently more equal when it comes to the consequences of dishing out insults. Idc about the whole larva/lx drama a bit and yeah it is funny how people argue here but:Would it hurt you to stop insulting people incontrol? However, that is the context here and taking on iNcontroL as a person in general isn't really relevant to this topic. Stick to the topic, stop derailing.
You're derailing it. This topic, since the humble OP decided to open it, has been about him and his so called "anger". It's even in the threadtitle. Your fanboyism doesn't change the truth being spoken by Cele as well.
If Incontrol was the guy he wants you to believe him to be, he'd never even opened the thread, let alone comment on it non-stop, keeping it alive. Keep the drama going buddy, maybe it's gonna net you a few dozen new subscriptions or whatever lol.
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incontrol, my man, i think the best advice for you is to stop barking down the rabbit hole of internet criticism. i know you're trying to stand up for yourself and show transparency/be genuine, and you're doing a great job, but the people who write some of these responses are purposely baiting you to make themselves feel important. they're just waiting for you to make comments like "stfu" so they can hold it up as proof that you're idra or something and delight in taking down a public figure
the silent majority will read your thoughts and think damn, sounds reasonable, i appreciate him writing up his perspective, and move on. the people who are trying to rope you into an ego tug of war are not going to be ready to move on because of anything you say, they'll only be ready when they grow up. the more explanations you post the more some blowhard will twist it around until you're so frustrated that you become the person they want you to be
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 12 2017 00:49 brickrd wrote:
incontrol, my man, i think the best advice for you is to stop barking down the rabbit hole of internet criticism. i know you're trying to stand up for yourself and show transparency/be genuine, and you're doing a great job, but the people who write some of these responses are purposely baiting you to make themselves feel important. they're just waiting for you to make comments like "stfu" so they can hold it up as proof that you're idra or something and delight in taking down a public figure
the silent majority will read your thoughts and think damn, sounds reasonable, i appreciate him writing up his perspective, and move on. the people who are trying to rope you into an ego tug of war are not going to be ready to move on because of anything you say, they'll only be ready when they grow up. the more explanations you post the more some blowhard will twist it around until you're so frustrated that you become the person they want you to be
lol dude I said awhile ago I am just trolling this thread. The OP was heard and if you read the majority of the comments my message was received. The few people coming in here to vent their demons are just entertaining for me. Thanks for the unsolicited advice though!
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You can troll all you want, it's just stating the obvious that you were mad af.
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On December 12 2017 00:23 Incomplete..ReV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2017 23:52 Cele wrote:On December 11 2017 10:02 iNcontroL wrote:On December 10 2017 20:43 BulgarianToss wrote:On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:
...
Larva told his chat he was upset that I was trolling him and he felt like I was mad. He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
...
I think you are mistaking here, because he didn't like your chopstick comment (note that he didn't laugh and it was obvious that he felt a little offended). No matter how you translate that it will sound racist in the context of the conversation you were having. I don't think I need to explain why this can sound racist to Larva and I understand his reaction. It is good to have a laugh and to joke as long as there are certain boundaries in order to not turn a joke into an offence. It is possible that you did not intend to offend him, but that demonstrates certain lack of emotional intelligence in this case. Other than that, everything else was alright. My empathy goes to Legend a little, but Larva made it clear why he did what he did. English isn't your first language so I will forgive the misunderstanding on your part but you are off by several miles on this subject. It's actually been cleared up and discussed via larva and his stream that he wasn't offended at all.. it was korean netizens that were due to mistranslated lines then they understood. The chopsticks recommendation was an actual challenge done on the korean produced GSL TLDR: Stfu plz And here's icontrol for you folks! Calling people idiots and telling them to “stfu“ since 2004. Some users are apparently more equal when it comes to the consequences of dishing out insults. Idc about the whole larva/lx drama a bit and yeah it is funny how people argue here but:Would it hurt you to stop insulting people incontrol? However, that is the context here and taking on iNcontroL as a person in general isn't really relevant to this topic. Stick to the topic, stop derailing.
I think this thread has devolved to people trolling iNcontroL and iNcontroL trolling them right back. Perhaps a little silly, but amusing.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 12 2017 03:40 ppp87 wrote:
You can troll all you want, it's just stating the obvious that you were mad af.
Why would I be mad at Abercrombie and Fitch? That drama is over 10 years old man.
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On December 12 2017 03:46 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 03:40 ppp87 wrote:
You can troll all you want, it's just stating the obvious that you were mad af. Why would I be mad at Abercrombie and Fitch? That drama is over 10 years old man.
lololol
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"During Larva's match I was not impressed with the level of trolling he was doing but it only meant I was rooting for Legend to win or at least put up a fight"
He wasn't angry, he was "not impressed"
Get it right, people!
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Well, can we talk about your subliminal powermove towards Larva
![[image loading]](https://media.giphy.com/media/3oxHQEZ2WmkRJR7BzW/giphy.gif)
I mean, we all know what was on your mind ok
+ Show Spoiler +
Shaun even looked like he couldn't believe the level of BM Larva was showcasing
![[image loading]](https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6fIWwiYjB1lnUR9K/giphy.gif)
I think iNcontroL became the representive of what many people had felt or rather for people who were indeed mad or even outraged by what Larva did. Maybe it's hard for them to accept now that you say you weren't actually mad at him.
I think after all it would be really interesting to know your opinion on Larvas actions. Should behavior like that be allowed/tolerated on LAN tournaments?
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On December 12 2017 03:41 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 00:23 Incomplete..ReV wrote:On December 11 2017 23:52 Cele wrote:On December 11 2017 10:02 iNcontroL wrote:On December 10 2017 20:43 BulgarianToss wrote:On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:
...
Larva told his chat he was upset that I was trolling him and he felt like I was mad. He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
...
I think you are mistaking here, because he didn't like your chopstick comment (note that he didn't laugh and it was obvious that he felt a little offended). No matter how you translate that it will sound racist in the context of the conversation you were having. I don't think I need to explain why this can sound racist to Larva and I understand his reaction. It is good to have a laugh and to joke as long as there are certain boundaries in order to not turn a joke into an offence. It is possible that you did not intend to offend him, but that demonstrates certain lack of emotional intelligence in this case. Other than that, everything else was alright. My empathy goes to Legend a little, but Larva made it clear why he did what he did. English isn't your first language so I will forgive the misunderstanding on your part but you are off by several miles on this subject. It's actually been cleared up and discussed via larva and his stream that he wasn't offended at all.. it was korean netizens that were due to mistranslated lines then they understood. The chopsticks recommendation was an actual challenge done on the korean produced GSL TLDR: Stfu plz And here's icontrol for you folks! Calling people idiots and telling them to “stfu“ since 2004. Some users are apparently more equal when it comes to the consequences of dishing out insults. Idc about the whole larva/lx drama a bit and yeah it is funny how people argue here but:Would it hurt you to stop insulting people incontrol? However, that is the context here and taking on iNcontroL as a person in general isn't really relevant to this topic. Stick to the topic, stop derailing. I think this thread has devolved to people trolling iNcontroL and iNcontroL trolling them right back. Perhaps a little silly, but amusing.
No, im not trolling anybody. I simply find it's no proper way to interact with other users on this board: calling them idiots or telling them to stfu. Is that so unlikely for you?
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United States1434 Posts
On December 12 2017 04:00 Orite wrote:Well, can we talk about your subliminal powermove towards Larva I mean, we all know what was on your mind ok + Show Spoiler +Shaun even looked like he couldn't believe the level of BM Larva was showcasing I think iNcontroL became the representive of what many people had felt or rather for people who were indeed mad or even outraged by what Larva did. Maybe it's hard for them to accept now that you say you weren't actually mad at him. I think after all it would be really interesting to know your opinion on Larvas actions. Should behavior like that be allowed/tolerated on LAN tournaments?
That zoom-in is perfection.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 12 2017 04:31 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 03:41 L_Master wrote:On December 12 2017 00:23 Incomplete..ReV wrote:On December 11 2017 23:52 Cele wrote:On December 11 2017 10:02 iNcontroL wrote:On December 10 2017 20:43 BulgarianToss wrote:On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:
...
Larva told his chat he was upset that I was trolling him and he felt like I was mad. He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
...
I think you are mistaking here, because he didn't like your chopstick comment (note that he didn't laugh and it was obvious that he felt a little offended). No matter how you translate that it will sound racist in the context of the conversation you were having. I don't think I need to explain why this can sound racist to Larva and I understand his reaction. It is good to have a laugh and to joke as long as there are certain boundaries in order to not turn a joke into an offence. It is possible that you did not intend to offend him, but that demonstrates certain lack of emotional intelligence in this case. Other than that, everything else was alright. My empathy goes to Legend a little, but Larva made it clear why he did what he did. English isn't your first language so I will forgive the misunderstanding on your part but you are off by several miles on this subject. It's actually been cleared up and discussed via larva and his stream that he wasn't offended at all.. it was korean netizens that were due to mistranslated lines then they understood. The chopsticks recommendation was an actual challenge done on the korean produced GSL TLDR: Stfu plz And here's icontrol for you folks! Calling people idiots and telling them to “stfu“ since 2004. Some users are apparently more equal when it comes to the consequences of dishing out insults. Idc about the whole larva/lx drama a bit and yeah it is funny how people argue here but:Would it hurt you to stop insulting people incontrol? However, that is the context here and taking on iNcontroL as a person in general isn't really relevant to this topic. Stick to the topic, stop derailing. I think this thread has devolved to people trolling iNcontroL and iNcontroL trolling them right back. Perhaps a little silly, but amusing. No, im not trolling anybody. I simply find it's no proper way to interact with other users on this board: calling them or telling them to stfu. Is that so unlikely for you?
Proper interaction would be to first acknowledge the inherent value of a poster and then address them with their accolades.
I will go first.
Cele: has managed to post over 3k times on this forum since 2008 and remain utterly unremarkable. For a lot of people that isn't a huge accomplishment but think of the magnitude of this. I mean.. almost 8 years and still nobody gives a flying fuck about him. HOW, HOW does someone do that? Not many people can manage that level of inadequacy and yet we have a perfect specimen of complete irrelevancy.
After we have identified Cele we can now move on to his accolades and why treating him as anything less than any other person ever is unacceptable.
Cele's accomplishments from least to greatest in numerical order:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Cele please fill these out and return it to your local notary for verification.
Cele however didn't show you the same respect and merely posted yet another dumb question. He asked you the likelihood of him not trolling but rather vapidly complaining about moderation. Don't be like cele. Just post on the forum and stop pretending to be a deputized sheriff of douchebaggery.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 12 2017 04:42 Ty2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 04:00 Orite wrote:Well, can we talk about your subliminal powermove towards Larva I mean, we all know what was on your mind ok + Show Spoiler +Shaun even looked like he couldn't believe the level of BM Larva was showcasing I think iNcontroL became the representive of what many people had felt or rather for people who were indeed mad or even outraged by what Larva did. Maybe it's hard for them to accept now that you say you weren't actually mad at him. I think after all it would be really interesting to know your opinion on Larvas actions. Should behavior like that be allowed/tolerated on LAN tournaments? That zoom-in is perfection.
btw that was Dan poking me in the side hahah
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Thanks for insulting two of the nicest (and very contributing) persons in the foreign bw community. Please go back in the hole you have hidden for so long, you won't be missed.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On December 12 2017 04:47 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 04:31 Cele wrote:On December 12 2017 03:41 L_Master wrote:On December 12 2017 00:23 Incomplete..ReV wrote:On December 11 2017 23:52 Cele wrote:On December 11 2017 10:02 iNcontroL wrote:On December 10 2017 20:43 BulgarianToss wrote:On December 05 2017 04:08 iNcontroL wrote:
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Larva told his chat he was upset that I was trolling him and he felt like I was mad. He apparently went out to get drinks with the casters later that night at like midnight and I wasn't there.. so he took offence to that? He also apparently had stuff mistranslated and doesn't understand my humor so he was uncomfortable with the interview.. I really don't give a damn though because it equates to Larva didn't like being trolled in his winners interview after he trolled Legendary. Felt like it was fair game to me O_o
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I think you are mistaking here, because he didn't like your chopstick comment (note that he didn't laugh and it was obvious that he felt a little offended). No matter how you translate that it will sound racist in the context of the conversation you were having. I don't think I need to explain why this can sound racist to Larva and I understand his reaction. It is good to have a laugh and to joke as long as there are certain boundaries in order to not turn a joke into an offence. It is possible that you did not intend to offend him, but that demonstrates certain lack of emotional intelligence in this case. Other than that, everything else was alright. My empathy goes to Legend a little, but Larva made it clear why he did what he did. English isn't your first language so I will forgive the misunderstanding on your part but you are off by several miles on this subject. It's actually been cleared up and discussed via larva and his stream that he wasn't offended at all.. it was korean netizens that were due to mistranslated lines then they understood. The chopsticks recommendation was an actual challenge done on the korean produced GSL TLDR: Stfu plz And here's icontrol for you folks! Calling people idiots and telling them to “stfu“ since 2004. Some users are apparently more equal when it comes to the consequences of dishing out insults. Idc about the whole larva/lx drama a bit and yeah it is funny how people argue here but:Would it hurt you to stop insulting people incontrol? However, that is the context here and taking on iNcontroL as a person in general isn't really relevant to this topic. Stick to the topic, stop derailing. I think this thread has devolved to people trolling iNcontroL and iNcontroL trolling them right back. Perhaps a little silly, but amusing. No, im not trolling anybody. I simply find it's no proper way to interact with other users on this board: calling them or telling them to stfu. Is that so unlikely for you? Proper interaction would be to first acknowledge the inherent value of a poster and then address them with their accolades. I will go first. Cele: has managed to post over 3k times on this forum since 2008 and remain utterly unremarkable. For a lot of people that isn't a huge accomplishment but think of the magnitude of this. I mean.. almost 8 years and still nobody gives a flying fuck about him. HOW, HOW does someone do that? Not many people can manage that level of inadequacy and yet we have a perfect specimen of complete irrelevancy. After we have identified Cele we can now move on to his accolades and why treating him as anything less than any other person ever is unacceptable. Cele's accomplishments from least to greatest in numerical order: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. Cele please fill these out and return it to your local notary for verification. Cele however didn't show you the same respect and merely posted yet another dumb question. He asked you the likelihood of him not trolling but rather vapidly complaining about moderation. Don't be like cele. Just post on the forum and stop pretending to be a deputized sheriff of douchebaggery.
Damn. This is either the one of the meanest things I've ever seen or the funniest.
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Croatia9486 Posts
How are you people still posting in this thread? Reading the original post, what is there even to discuss?
In any case, locking this. It's time to move on.
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EPT
![[image loading]](https://media.giphy.com/media/xUOxeZUP3yihEEgsuc/giphy.gif)
