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On December 06 2017 01:17 FunkyLich wrote:Hey iNcontroL, thanks for the cast. The whole weekend was a blast, and I always get a kick out of your humor even if you do come off a bit harsh sometimes (poor Artosis LOL). I'm just a rando to you, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I've been following the BW scene pretty much non-stop since 2005 or so, even when SC2 was at it's height. These are just my perceptions, and I also have not read this whole thread, just bits here and there. I personally didn't think you were angry during the interview, because I've seen your casting often enough. I do remember people in the twitch chat were saying you were salty, and this can turn into a feedback loop for viewers, but I didn't necessarily get that vibe. What I did see was discomfort in the translator. That's where I saw the tension. It was visible, and it bled off on Larva. Show nested quote +This information on the interpreter is post event lol. I had no idea who he was or how good he was. I also had no idea how good his translating was as I don't have a running translator rank in my robotic eye from sky net. This quote from you is the most telling of anything IMO. Why didn't you know anything about him? Why do I still know nothing about him? It doesn't speak to you specifically, but to organizers, and casters in general, treating translators as a secondary "means to an end". In other words, they're just here to move words back and forth. Isn't this kind of sad? It's not just a thing between you and this translator. All the translators seem to get this kind of treatment from everyone. For example, why don't I know the name of the woman who was translating for Legend? She appeared on the couch multiple times, but never got an introduction. I'm not saying you guys are explicitly disrespecting them, just not showing them much love for the value they are bringing. I'm saying we should get to know them a little bit. I would argue that if a translator is necessary to communicate with the player, they are the second most important person on the couch. Right? So it should be obvious, as casters you would want to build some rapport with them so they feel more comfortable. It's not always about how good the translator is. Sometimes things you say just don't translate, like inside jokes. And it leaves the translator, who already feels alienated, baffled, like "what am I missing here?", so he asks the wrong question, "Larva, how much do you weigh?". Often, it felt like you guys were just talking at the translator, saying things like "yeah, translate that specifically", in an almost demanding way, without asking if it would translate at all. As a viewer, I didn't like that. And I don't think it was anything malicious from you guys, it's just not something you think about often, but you should. I feel like you are getting a lot of heat for something that is ultimately a shared responsibility of casters. It's not all on you. But anyway, don't want to leave it sour. I really am glad to see you casting some BW again man. Overall really good stuff this weekend. Also, just wanted to say, the SC:R launch event was insanely fun and memorable. Thanks for the cast!
Not to mention, a lot of the translator in the gaming event may not be professional translator who also happen to know the scene and game well, and the memes. I personally translated for some of the Chinese player in Seattle back in WCG 2007 Grand Final. My English by no mean was anywhere near perfect at the time, plus...... the first time doing this kind of thing, stage frights, hello o.O? xDD It's actually a hard job when you are not professional..... at it, it can be overwhelming what is asked of you on camera. I was especially embarrassed when translating from a Russian reporter( who spoke English with an accent I had a hard time understanding), yeah I had to ask him to repeat his question 3 times every time before I can finally make sense of it..... >.<. I hope as there are more funding given to the events these days, they can at least get decent translator who are somewhat more professional than what I was. xDD
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Starcraft would be worse off without Larva or Incontrol. Thanks for making things fun boys.
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Good write-up, iNcontroL! I enjoyed casters, players and the event as a whole. I see no reason for any drama.
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Just lol at anyone judging Inc for his conduct and jokes. Inc has done so much for the foreign scene, reaching a helping hand to even the lowest of the low players back in the day. Much like Larva he delivered exactly what he always delivers and on a much more demanding schedule for him. The amount of people getting riled up because they didn't personally enjoy or maybe understand something that Inc said or did is hilarious.
So common for people to provide a service and the loudest voices being criticism and judgment that it has almost lost meaning online. Respect to Inc for this thread and his patient responses. Remember that it is 1% of the population making 99% of the complaints and fuss. Keep doing what you're doing.
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The grammar and culture of language is really different between English and Korean. You can misunderstand anytime if you don't have any experience of one of those.
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This statement is confusing in regards to its intent and reads a bit like a cop out. I think it's pretty obvious Geoff was upset at Larva's antics and anyone watching would reasonably come to that conclusion.
It's okay to be upset, dude. It's okay to be annoyed with Larva and to be of the opinion that his actions surpassed the acceptable norm of what we call "BM". It's also okay for large sections of the community to disagree with and even criticize that reaction. But you should stand your ground and explain how and why you were annoyed or admit that it was a mistake and apologize if you see fit. Either way, if you're going to make a statement like this, at least acknowledge the reality of the situation. This "I was grumpy because I was tired but definitely wasn't mad and was only joking but Larva was being a hypocrite" type of excuse only serves to satisfy your own need to try and exonerate yourself while failing to address the truth of the matter.
You obviously care what the community thinks as evidenced by the fact that you felt the need to make this statement at all, so why not use the opportunity to just be honest with yourself and your audience. No one whose opinion is worth a damn is going to fault you for it.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
The above is a "I posted this on Reddit but nobody cared" repost. He even made a new account to do it lol
Be gone troll.
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On December 05 2017 12:53 iNcontroL wrote:
You give a lot of advice for a guy who has never been in the position you think you are able to advise on mate.
he's obviously over the top with that post, but come on. You asked an overweight dude how much his thigh weighs, with zero context. He didn't hear you mention it on your cast. It just comes out of the blue.
It's nitpicking though! Loved the cast.
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On December 06 2017 15:47 MamiyaOtaru wrote:
he's obviously over the top with that post, but come on. You asked an overweight dude how much his thigh weighs, with zero context. He didn't hear you mention it on your cast. It just comes out of the blue.
He put his foot up on the desk. I'd say that's sufficient context.
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The above is a "I posted this on Reddit but nobody cared" repost. He even made a new account to do it lol
Be gone troll.
I don't see the relevance of the fact that my post was posted elsewhere. I posted it here because I wanted to participate in the more thorough conversation happening here.
Don't you see how this kind of attitude is part of the problem? I'm making a perfectly valid point and your response is to intentionally mislabel it as trolling. Either ignore what I'm saying or argue against it, but don't accuse it of being something it isn't just so you can leverage your status here to dismiss criticism.
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On December 06 2017 16:11 Anticreativity wrote:Show nested quote +The above is a "I posted this on Reddit but nobody cared" repost. He even made a new account to do it lol
Be gone troll.
I don't see the relevance of the fact that my post was posted elsewhere. I posted it here because I wanted to participate in the more thorough conversation happening here. Don't you see how this kind of attitude is part of the problem? I'm making a perfectly valid point and your response is to intentionally mislabel it as trolling. Either ignore what I'm saying or argue against it, but don't accuse it of being something it isn't just so you can leverage your status here to dismiss criticism.
You start your initial post by basically saying that Geoff is confusing because he doesn't say the things you've decided that he feels/felt. And then you go on for the rest of your post expanding on that. Not that I know what he's thinking, but bottom line is that it doesn't really help much to discuss with you when you've already decided not to hear what he has to say.
The relevance of it being posted elsewhere, is that some people are so focused on voicing their opinion, rather than being interested in what has happened. So basically, it's an indication that it's more important for you to tell Geoff that he was mad, than actually listen to him about what transpired.
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Let's be honest... you were med.
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You start your initial post by basically saying that Geoff is confusing because he doesn't say the things you've decided that he feels/felt. And then you go on for the rest of your post expanding on that. Not that I know what he's thinking, but bottom line is that it doesn't really help much to discuss with you when you've already decided not to hear what he has to say.
The relevance of it being posted elsewhere, is that some people are so focused on voicing their opinion, rather than being interested in what has happened. So basically, it's an indication that it's more important for you to tell Geoff that he was mad, than actually listen to him about what transpired.
No, I said it was confusing because he seems to make an excuse for an emotion he later claims to have not been acting on. And it's not "deciding not to hear what he has to say", I read what he had to say and I found it disingenuous.
And I don't see how my posting this on reddit indicates that I'm more concerned with voicing my opinion than hearing his. In actuality, like I already said, I posted it here because the conversation here is much more thorough and Geoff himself is actually taking part. Besides, even if I was guilty of only posting it here just to ensure it met Geoff's eyes, that still doesn't constitute "trolling" since there was nothing about my post that was meant to upset anyone or be detrimental to the discourse at large. Essentially, what your saying here is that if you are anything less than in full agreement with Geoff that you shouldn't bother posting here and that's a strange stance to take on a discussion forum.
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On December 06 2017 17:32 Anticreativity wrote:Show nested quote +You start your initial post by basically saying that Geoff is confusing because he doesn't say the things you've decided that he feels/felt. And then you go on for the rest of your post expanding on that. Not that I know what he's thinking, but bottom line is that it doesn't really help much to discuss with you when you've already decided not to hear what he has to say.
The relevance of it being posted elsewhere, is that some people are so focused on voicing their opinion, rather than being interested in what has happened. So basically, it's an indication that it's more important for you to tell Geoff that he was mad, than actually listen to him about what transpired. No, I said it was confusing because he seems to make an excuse for an emotion he later claims to have not been acting on. And it's not "deciding not to hear what he has to say", I read what he had to say and I found it disingenuous.
So you made an assumption about what he was thinking and feeling. Geoff posted what he was thinking and feeling and it's not what you thought. You choose not to believe his explanation.
Okay. That's okay, that's valid. But there's nothing left to discuss beyond that, is there? If you don't believe him, then nothing he says will change your mind. Conversely, it's not like you can change anyone's mind by essentially implying you know better than Geoff what he was thinking and feeling at that time. (I mean feel free to try, but you'd look quite silly)
There literally is no discussion to be had at this point and beyond.
If you insist otherwise, then you give me reason to believe that you only made these posts to start an internet argument and then try not to lose it even if it's nonsensical or impossible to begin with, meaning that you are not arguing in good faith but just for the sake of "gotcha"-ing Geoff or others.
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So you made an assumption about what he was thinking and feeling. Geoff posted what he was thinking and feeling and it's not what you thought. You choose not to believe his explanation.
Okay. That's okay, that's valid. But there's nothing left to discuss beyond that, is there? If you don't believe him, then nothing he says will change your mind. Conversely, it's not like you can change anyone's mind by essentially implying you know better than Geoff what he was thinking and feeling at that time. (I mean feel free to try, but you'd look quite silly)
There literally is no discussion to be had at this point and beyond.
If you insist otherwise, then you give me reason to believe that you only made these posts to start an internet argument and then try not to lose it even if it's nonsensical or impossible to begin with, meaning that you are not arguing in good faith but just for the sake of "gotcha"-ing Geoff or others.
But see, the thing is that my entire involvement in this discussion has been simply posting my reply to his statement, being called a troll for it and then defending against that accusation. I haven't insisted on anything else from Geoff and I haven't pushed this conversation beyond any reasonable boundary. Indeed, I haven't been able to get it past the initial stage of simply posting my reply seeing as every subsequent post has been for the sake of clarifying my intentions which some people here seem weirdly insistent on labeling as disruptive or trolling.
If there's nothing left to discuss then there's nothing left to discuss when it comes to Geoff's statement, but you can't sit there and act like I'm being unreasonable when literally the only thing I've done other than make my initial opinion known is defend myself against baseless accusations in regards to my intent.
This, to me, is clearly just a case of an insular community's bias in favor of one of their own against an 'outsider'. All I'm doing is disagreeing and being called a troll for it, then when I explain that I'm not a troll I get accused of being too insistent. Do you have to have clout to be allowed to disagree or something?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
"All I'm doing is saying I know the intentions of a guy better than that guy does then acting flabbergasted each time someone tells me that is silly" - some reddit guy probably
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"I act like I'm mad the whole finals then proceed to interview the champion with a deadpan angry face asking him weird questions to the point he felt like I'm mad af too then I'm calling trolls everyone questioning my words." - INcontroL
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On December 07 2017 05:00 ppp87 wrote:
"I act like I'm mad the whole finals then proceed to interview the champion with a deadpan angry face asking him weird questions to the point he felt like I'm mad af too then I'm calling trolls everyone questioning my words." - INcontroL
i propose a grudgematch.
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Have not watched the vods, but I've been around the scene just long enough to know that peoples' reactions were definitely out of proportion. It is silly you have to even make this statement, but good on you for doing so, even if it is just out of respect for the people you represent--not saying that is in any way the case, though!
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On December 07 2017 05:00 ppp87 wrote:
"I act like I'm mad the whole finals then proceed to interview the champion with a deadpan angry face asking him weird questions to the point he felt like I'm mad af too then I'm calling trolls everyone questioning my words." - INcontroL
Well, given that hes been doing that for YEARS and everyone knows incontrol...not really as mockable as you make it seem...
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EPT
