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Power Rank - ASL4 Edition
September 9th, 2017 20:29 GMT
With ASL4 just around the corner, here's another Power Ranking to help satisfy your cravings! Without further ado, please go ahead and read our own rankings, post your own in the comments below, and feel free to discuss to your heart's desire! #1: Flash ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/prech/files/RaceIcons/Ticon_pastel_Hyde.png) Last season we still ended up trying to make a point. We really don’t need to this time...don't even try to argue this one. #2: Last ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/prech/files/RaceIcons/Ticon_pastel_Hyde.png) Last is still the “other Terran” to Flash, and while he’s still up there in skill and results, when it comes to his matchups, it's a far cry from his Afreeca dominance in 2016. His TvT especially hasn’t been on par recently, which is pretty ironic considering TvT was the matchup that put Last on the map. #3: Bisu  Bisu has been laddering hard since the launch of Remastered and maintaining a top 3 spot in the global ranking. His biggest weakness in his ASL runs is that he doesn’t seem to have the answers to players who have prepared specifically against his playstyle. He can be weak against the mind games of his opponents, leading to very uncharacteristic losses for him. Very few players can actually do that to him though, and Bisu never makes the same mistake twice. #4: Soulkey  Placing 3rd/4th in the previous ASL with one of the hardest paths and then taking FlaSh to five games is an absolutely incredible feat. On top of that, he finished third in the SSL Classic, bolstering his resume even more. Soulkey’s been feeling very confident lately with his play, and this ASL might be his chance to shine. #5: EffOrt  Despite a consistent pattern of getting eliminated before bracket play in the ASL, EffOrt did win the SSL Classic after pretty much killing the round robin and then easily taking the finals against free. So congratulations to EffOrt for finally stepping up and justifying a high ranking, but he still has to prove he has what it takes in the ASL. #6: Larva Now, I know what you might all be thinking: "Omg, why is Larva so high with literally no good finishes on his resume?" Okay, hear us out. Larva has been improving so incredibly well that it’s difficult to put him lower than 10th in this ranking. He also finished second at the Thrill Starleague Season 3. He’s beaten FlaSh in Bo3s on stream, and he’s been rapidly improving all aspects of his game. As long as he doesn’t choke in an offline setting, he definitely deserves his spot at #6. #7: Mind  Most of you probably haven’t been following Mind so closely and might question his high placement at #7. A brief history of Mind: he’s won two tournaments in the past four months, and he’s been on a similar trajectory as Larva. His games have been clean and his playstyle reinvigorated. He's looking really strong in every matchup. #8: Jaedong There are generally two parties when it comes to overall thoughts on Jaedong. The first screams that he’s still the Dong and the Tyrant. The other screams that he’s a washed up scrub that can’t play anymore. And truth be told, he has gotten far worse than his KeSPA days, which is what makes ranking him so difficult. It was his ZvT against Flash and Last that did him in during ASL2 and ASL3 respectively, but Jaedong has always dialed it up to 11 when his tournament chances were on the line, and with the maps for ASL4 being quite appealing for Zergs, maybe this time he'll swing it in his favor. #9: BeSt  BeSt’s PvT is still a nightmare for Terrans, and his other matchups have improved. His PvZ is no longer complete dumpster tier—though his corsair control still is—and his PvP has also been a solid rock in his arsenal. BeSt is always the kind of player you expect to make top 8, and there’s no exception with this tournament, regardless of the strength of the field. #10: Shine  Shine’s status in the Power Ranking has been hot topic among the staff. It's undeniable that his run last season was nothing short of miraculous, but much like Shuttle after his ASL1 victory, we just don’t see it happening again. Shine probably deserves to be lower, since we really haven’t seen much or heard from him since. But give respect where it’s due: Shine always surprises us. #11: Light  Light is one of those solid players who has steadily improved his game after coming back to Brood War. His TvP still leaves a lot to be desired, but his TvZ is still monstrous (and there are plenty of games to catch on this, especially against Jaedong, Soulkey and EffOrt). But we’ve felt his play has improved enough to where he deserves #11, especially when he managed to place third in the HoSic BJ S2 in a pretty stacked field. Lucky for him, there’s not too many Protosses in the ASL this time around. #12: Rain Rain has shown that he’s here to play and not just a wannabe SC2 transition player. He’s played some fantastic games so far, and his PvT hasn’t missed a beat. Winning the HoSic BJ S2 over Last early in 2017 is a pretty noteworthy sign of things to come, but his previous disappointing finish in the ASL3 does have us yearning for more. We believe Rain is still on the right path and can potentially deliver a deep run in the ASL...well, maybe if he stopped spending time doing other less moral things on stream.... #13: Snow Snow’s fantastic reaver/carrier build in PvT, especially combined with pretty good carrier maps like Crossing Field and Gold Rush, are great signs for the Winter Soldier. While his PvZ still has much to be desired, the rest of his game is still very solid, and his rapid improvement gives him a spot at #13. #14: sSak  Now before you get upset for why a mediocre Terran is ranked this high over people like Stork and hero, hear us out. Look at sSak’s path in the ASL3 for a moment. He went undefeated in groups against hero, Rain, Jaedong, and Last and then took Bisu to five games. He’s a solid player, and we fully expect him to make it to groups with a real shot at getting to the bracket. Getting deep in the bracket is the real challenge for him now. #15: hero hero’s slump continues, and honestly we don’t see an end to it any time soon. His ZvP has started to slip along with the rest of his matchups, and he went from being contender to make deep runs in tournaments to a guy who can barely scrape by into the Ro16. Until he figures out something in his place, he’ll remain further down in the PR. #16: Mong Mong had a surprisingly good run in the last ASL where he made it into the Ro8 by beating Soulkey, Shuttle, BeSt, and GuemChi—by no means a small feat. However, in any other tournament, he’s failed to deliver, and while the majority of those players listed have improved their games, we feel Mong simply hasn’t been able to improve his. He’s still good enough to make the Ro16 with an easier group, but in a more challenging group, expect an earlier exit. #17: Stork Stork has said himself that he’s kind of taking competitive StarCraft less seriously, and it shows. It’s difficult to put Stork any higher than 15 based on his current performance. Most of us want him to succeed, but it seems like he’s much more happy just streaming and having fun with the game these days—and who can really blame him with streaming culture getting bigger and bigger? Sadly, it’s going to impact his play, and he’ll need the luck of the draw to get into Ro16 or deeper. #18: Mini Mini has always been a thorn in the side of solid players but struggles against the more mediocre ones. If he’s not able to mirror his play against the best to the regulars, then he’s probably not making it out of the Ro24. #19:Sky Ha Neul, to those who do not know, was a rookie in Hwaseung OZ back in the KeSPA, frequent practice partner to Jaedong and Killer, and followed up pretty early in the post-KeSPA era as one of its early best players. Now he's looking to reclaim that former glory, but he's up against some tough competition. #20: Shuttle  Flash is immune to mortal curses like the champion’s curse, but Shuttle is not. He was swiftly relegated to the back of the pack following his stunning ASL1 win and has failed to show any results since. After a timely exit last season, one can only hope to see the Eyewater rise again. #21: Killer  Despite circumstances leading Killer into the current season, we need to remind ourselves that Killer was one of the best Zergs in the scene prior to his enlistment. Unfortunately, while he has shown a fair amount of his skills on his stream, it's still not up to par of what it used to be. Given that he hasn’t been back long, expect a lot of “booth rust” from him. #22: HiyA HiyA is all but gone from active streaming, opting to go and work a regular job. It's quite a surprise that despite his competition, he still managed to make it into the tournament. In any case, we don't expect him to make it far, and it's unlikely his tournament run will go as deep as his qualifier run. #23: Sharp  Sharp all but disappeared from public light since his quick exit from his ASL2. Since then, he failed to even make it into last season and hasn't really accomplished anything else in the meantime. Maybe a resurgence is in order for him? We're not quite sure, but he definitely rounds out the bottom of the pack right now. #24: Rush  Rush was once a player of great promise with excellent understanding and execution in all three matchups but a few severe weaknesses. He lacked experience playing against better opponents, and his playstyle is so by the book that it makes him predictable and easy to counter. Decent mechanics and understanding will only take you so far. #25:Ample Another mediocre Terran who hasn’t really made a splash. He’s failed to do much in the ASL, and that trend is unlikely to change anytime soon. #26:Firebathero  Firebathero made it in on his third try in Busan, but when it comes to the actual tournament, it's unlikely we’re going to see the brilliance of this Ajae. It's still amazing that he qualified though. We can say this about FBH: we really hope he gets out of groups so we can see some of his ceremonies and some funny stuff at the group stage ceremony. Otherwise, he’s just not that good anymore. #27: Lazy  Lazy is a talented player with some decent chops, but against championship quality players, we don't expect him to go far. What few tournament games we've seen from him aren't particular inspiring either. #28:Where  Also known as MisO, Where is a rookie from ASL2, but he’s started to become a more familiar face around these parts. Still, rookies are rookies. MisO probably won't make a splash in this tournament. Writers: BLinD-RawR, FlashFTW Graphics: v1 Editors: BigFan, EsportsJohnPhoto Credits: DailyEsports
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Thanks for the power ranking! Really hard to place these guys imo but it looks reasonable enough i think. It's tough without a regular league goig on (proleague), i guess spon matches could be a big deciding factor? One thing i personally would appreciate are some indicators which show us the direction of each player since last PR. So basically arrow up/down and how many places he changed. That would be sweet I really hope Larva can show his A game this ASL, also cheering for JD (obviously) and Rain. What's this about: "well, maybe if he stopped spending time doing other less moral things on stream...." Watching girl streamers? 
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I still and forever will believe in the Dong. Nice write up
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Would appreciate to have rankings go from bottom to top
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United States10095 Posts
On September 10 2017 07:23 duke91 wrote: Would appreciate to have rankings go from bottom to top this is always how Brood War power ranks have been formatted.
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On September 10 2017 07:26 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 07:23 duke91 wrote: Would appreciate to have rankings go from bottom to top this is always how Brood War power ranks have been formatted. While that is true the other way around adds a bit of suspense. I don't really care one way or another (though for the community PRs i did i also went from lowest to highest place) What about some arrows or similar indicators? I think that would really add something
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On September 10 2017 07:23 duke91 wrote: Would appreciate to have rankings go from bottom to top
scroll down to bot of page and start from there
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On September 10 2017 07:29 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 07:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On September 10 2017 07:23 duke91 wrote: Would appreciate to have rankings go from bottom to top this is always how Brood War power ranks have been formatted. While that is true the other way around adds a bit of suspense. I don't really care one way or another (though for the community PRs i did i also went from lowest to highest place) What about some arrows or similar indicators? I think that would really add something  I would like arrows too if it was a monthly rank like before in kespa days. But now its more an estimation of their performance going into an ASL. Last Power Rank was 4-5 months ago.
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United States4883 Posts
On September 10 2017 08:09 tanngard wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 07:29 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 10 2017 07:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On September 10 2017 07:23 duke91 wrote: Would appreciate to have rankings go from bottom to top this is always how Brood War power ranks have been formatted. While that is true the other way around adds a bit of suspense. I don't really care one way or another (though for the community PRs i did i also went from lowest to highest place) What about some arrows or similar indicators? I think that would really add something  I would like arrows too if it was a monthly rank like before in kespa days. But now its more an estimation of their performance going into an ASL. Last Power Rank was 4-5 months ago.
We've honestly talked a lot about monthly power rankings, but it's hard to get a good hang of where players are without tournaments going on constantly. You can't deny that we definitely have some dry periods throughout the year where nothing is going on for 4-6 weeks at a time. Maybe that will change with the resurgence of Brood War in Korea, though.
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United States4883 Posts
BTW, for the record, I ranked Mind at #3 right after Flash and Last. Mind is really really really good right now, I would not be surprised to see him in the finals. I think Soulkey and Shine are also way overrated, although they are really good players.
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Too low:
MisO [#28] - It seems MisO qualifying was a surprise to everyone but me and Raelcun. Not only does he regularly kill good players in the KCM, but his qualifying game against Mind [#7] was really good.
firebathero [#26] - Out of all the Ajae players, FireBatHero is currently the only one who can still go. All of them have solid build orders and early game micro, but FireBatHero has lategame multitasking and a wealth of experience. Whoever put him below fucking Ample and HiyA should step barefoot on some LEGO™.
Shine [#10] - I'm not surprised to see TeamLiquid staff being racist against creative players! People keep forgetting he mostly wins using solid fundamentals and mechanics. Quote myself from a week ago: When he was playing against Snow I had [Snow's] stream open too, and Snow was taking it kind of seriously and focusing on the game. Meanwhile, Shine's kid is talking to him, yanking on his shirt and pointing at the screen, and Shine is laughing and having a good time. Then a fight starts and Shine goes "daddy's got to go to work" or whatever and JUST KILLS PEOPLE.
Sky [#19] - Sky is currently the undisputed #1 on the global ladder, and he regularly shits on good players. You can't convince me that any of you looked at his perfect Shuttle/DT drops to come back in a losing game, or his triple manner Pylon into Zealot pressure, or his QUADRUPLE SHIELD BATTERY IN HIS OPPONENTS MAIN TO BLOCK THE DRAGOON FROM COMING OUT AND THEN MURDERING HIM, and just thought "yeah he looks ok I guess, I don't need to mention any of that in the writeup." Barefoot, LEGO™.
Mong [#16] - But only by a few spots. People are forgetting that Mong was instrumental in his team winning the GTB when he almost all-killed Team BeSt, taking out BeSt, JangBi, and Rain. He does not deserve a lower rank than hero and sSak.
Too high:
Mind [#7] - Are you kidding me? Here are his latest games: - He lost vs Mini [#18] - He lost vs Shuttle [#20] - He lost vs BeSt [#9] - He lost vs Last [#2]. His last wins were in June -- what has he done for me lately? And don't get me started on his amazing qualifying run where he lost to fucking MisO [#28]. He's the most shaky Terran pro out there right now... and let's not forget Mind was the player Shine just murdered in the qualifiers to make it into ASL Season 3.
Flash [#1] - Nah I'm kidding, he's unstoppable. The only thing that can end his run this season would be the sheer volume of people coming at him with nutty builds because beating him at 15 minutes is impossible. Even then I'm pretty sure he'll weather it all easily.
In all seriousness, thanks for the Power Rank writeup, folks! You're all awesome. It's so good to have some hype-generating content leading into the ASL today. =)
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Yeah Flash looks really unstoppable. He broke 1300 Elo for the first time today and has 85% spon matches win rate.....
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You know the event is stacked when Rain and Snow are #12 and #13 :o
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Sea is either too high or too low in this ranking list, I can't even find him. /s
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Bisutopia19208 Posts
Larva, last, and mind overrated. I'm looking to them to disappoint everyone.
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Snow is back now? Cool stuff
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Why isn't this spotlighted?
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Japan11285 Posts
I had Shine at 5. Bag of Builds owns when it counts.
Lots of online hope used in this PR.
Stork is determined to do well to not lose his viewers.
FBH! FBH! FBH!
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Seriously, why isn't this on the front page already, spotlighted or otherwise? It's the only bit of ASL hype we have and the tournament starts in 7 hours.
Edit: Also, are any staff members going to post tournament threads for group play? Last year we had threads that looked like this, rather than the plaintext crap I can come up with.
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God the old ASL threads were beautiful.
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United States4883 Posts
On September 10 2017 11:59 Aylear wrote:Seriously, why isn't this on the front page already, spotlighted or otherwise? It's the only bit of ASL hype we have and the tournament starts in 7 hours. Edit: Also, are any staff members going to post tournament threads for group play? Last year we had threads that looked like this, rather than the plaintext crap I can come up with.
I was having issues with the horribly outdated interface and gave up in frustration. BigFan or another admin will take care of it soon, hopefully.
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On September 10 2017 11:59 Aylear wrote:Seriously, why isn't this on the front page already, spotlighted or otherwise? It's the only bit of ASL hype we have and the tournament starts in 7 hours. Edit: Also, are any staff members going to post tournament threads for group play? Last year we had threads that looked like this, rather than the plaintext crap I can come up with.
This. I was expecting to see ASL shit all over the frontpage. But nothing.
This power rank put a tear in my eye though. Amazing :´)
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Japan11285 Posts
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Sad, but understandable that my boy sKyHigh didn't make the power rankings. One matchup wonders are hurting from such a wide pool of opponents.
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Japan11285 Posts
It's not that he's a one-trick pony, he didn't make the rankings because he's not in ASL4 ^_^
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Maybe edit the part about Hiya. He's back to streaming.
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On September 10 2017 05:35 The_Red_Viper wrote:Thanks for the power ranking! Really hard to place these guys imo but it looks reasonable enough i think. It's tough without a regular league goig on (proleague), i guess spon matches could be a big deciding factor? One thing i personally would appreciate are some indicators which show us the direction of each player since last PR. So basically arrow up/down and how many places he changed. That would be sweet I really hope Larva can show his A game this ASL, also cheering for JD (obviously) and Rain. What's this about: "well, maybe if he stopped spending time doing other less moral things on stream...." Watching girl streamers? 
Wow, what's up with Rain? He seems like such a straight and serious guy, just like his play-style. Hope he hasn't walked down the dark path of streaming...
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Japan11285 Posts
Progamers must be pure and chaste
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TLADT24920 Posts
Not a bad PR. I think sSak, Shine, Mini and Hiya could be higher. sSak has shown that he can be stupid good when you least expect it. His current ranking doesn't factor that in that much imo. Shine made the finals yet he's that low. Sure, he's not as good mechanically as others but he's also shown to be creative and smart. Mini is mini lol and as for Hiya, old bias here but he should be much higher. He's been around since the Sonic days so even though he may not stream as much recently, I'm sure his form can be comparable to other "stronger" players.
On September 10 2017 14:26 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 05:35 The_Red_Viper wrote:Thanks for the power ranking! Really hard to place these guys imo but it looks reasonable enough i think. It's tough without a regular league goig on (proleague), i guess spon matches could be a big deciding factor? One thing i personally would appreciate are some indicators which show us the direction of each player since last PR. So basically arrow up/down and how many places he changed. That would be sweet I really hope Larva can show his A game this ASL, also cheering for JD (obviously) and Rain. What's this about: "well, maybe if he stopped spending time doing other less moral things on stream...." Watching girl streamers?  Wow, what's up with Rain? He seems like such a straight and serious guy, just like his play-style. Hope he hasn't walked down the dark path of streaming... I'm sure you can find out yourself if you see his stream
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On September 10 2017 14:33 c3rberUs wrote:Progamers must be pure and chaste 
Protoss must be pure and chaste!
(As opposed to Terran savages and Zerg scum)
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This is one of the more reasonable lists you guys have made. I'm okay with it.
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We believe Rain is still on the right path and can potentially deliver a deep run in the ASL...well, maybe if he stopped spending time doing other less moral things on stream....
? he plays starcraft?
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On September 10 2017 15:20 Wolf wrote: This is one of the more reasonable lists you guys have made. I'm okay with it. This almost sensible approach makes me question your abilities as a caster!
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Anyone who says some players deserve to be higher should list an equal number of players that deserve to be be lower. Not like that guy who listed 5 players that should be higher and only 1 player who should be lower. Anything else is just intellectually dishonest.
It's just like ahead of every World Cup in soccer where at least 10 teams say they "deserve" to reach the semis, which only 4 teams can reach. Reaching the quarter-finals is seen as a complete failure even though that means you are one of the top 8 teams in the world. National coaches get fired all the time over such basic lack of math.
People should stop being so entitled, especially on behalf of others.
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Is Jae Zedong for real, or does he not understand the concept of arguing about power ranks for fun?
I'm just wondering if he's always a jerk.
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Rain and hero too low imo.
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On September 10 2017 16:07 TT1 wrote: Rain and hero too low imo.
About time someone other than ol' Faustypoo thinks hero is gosu.
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i retract my statement, hero's rank is fine
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Gross. Feel like at least 9 of these are out of place.
The first two are correct though, definitely.
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On September 10 2017 16:20 Carnations wrote: Gross. Feel like at least 9 of these are out of place.
The first two are correct though, definitely.
first 3
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I think Stork will do good this ASL. He's looked really strong on stream against Flash and his play looked real strong in the Qualifiers. Hoping to see him to make it far.
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Yeah well I don't seen Mind living up to these expectations, he's clearly too high here. Larva and EffOrt will probably choke as usual, but they still deserve their rank. Snow is too high and Mong a bit too low. I'm fine with the rest 
Also now I really need to check Rain's stream...
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I think this PR is really solid. Nothing jumps out to me as being completely out of place.
I would like to see Snow higher but I'm confident by the end of the tournament he will be :D
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
to be honest, theres nothing more exciting than the prospect of any player proving the rankings wrong.
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Hope Shine can surprise once again, was amazing to see his special tactics last season!
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Someone needs to start a Rain stream thread and keep the passion alive...
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I might check out Rains stream more from now on. So I can see what is going on. Sounds like he does crazy stuff on his stream.
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As usual some questionable positions but in general I agree. Mind is kinda high though.
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Can someone please explain the reference with Rain doing "other less moral things on stream" ?
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I have been watching basically any StarCraft I can find with Aylear over the last year and a half and I have to say this powerrank feels very steeped in very old performances and biased by the histories of these players as opposed to their performance in the last year or so.
Too Low:
MisO [#28] This is criminal. He has been on a very large upswing in all of the things he's been playing in recently and taking out very solid players and putting together large winstreaks in winner stays on format events. He definitely needs to be above Stork and Shuttle at the very least. He should be up at around 15 ideally.
Sky [#19] He's been destroying everyone on the ladder.
sSak [#14] I still think he's an idiot for admitting on stream he was planning to evade mandatory military service, but still one of the scarier terrans around.
firebathero [#26] He has shown a lot of impressive games on his stream, he plays long hours of grinding out practice with barely any screwing around when he plays.
Shine [#10] This feels like the new Shuttle from ASL 1. He's been playing well in a lot of events since the last ASL and everyone seems to be writing off his performance from the last one. He had a hard time getting practice for the last tournament and is currently ranked high enough on the ladder he's playing with all the top players regularly.
Mong [#16] I feel like he should be up around in the 13 range. He's been very solid recently.
Too High:
Bisu [#3] as much as it hurts to say it, I want him to be number three, but he just hasn't put the performance out there at all. He shows flashes of brilliance but nothing worthy of putting him at number 3
Last [#2] This is a holdover from when Brood War was still starting to return and Flash had come back and started showing Terrans how to play again. He hasn't put forth an impressive finish in quite a long time but everyone still insists he's solidly #2 behind Flash.
Larva [#6] He has been improving A LOT but he has a history of dropping the ball in ASL, so especially if players are going to get ranked low despite one high finish, I don't understand why he's at #6
Mind [#7]Seriously, I don't understand this at all. He hasn't done anything recently.
Light [#11] Completely failed to impress me in the last few months.
Strange:
Snow [#13] Snow is a gigantic X factor. His playstyle is difficult to predict at times and he does things that are frankly insane and somehow makes them work. He should be above a lot of the people that are higher than him, but he probably still deserves to be in the 11-15 range.
Shuttle [#20] Criminally underrated in ASL1 and then he just stopped practicing. He seemed to switch to just being a BJ for several tournaments as he basically never played on stream. Recently, he's been playing hard again and it's hard to place him as he's taking out good players, but still seems inconsistent. Much better than he was last ASL but probably wouldn't put him above 18
That all being said, compiling these types of lists is very difficult and much respect to the staff who had to make a lot of difficult decisions.
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Ayyy my boys Shine and Hiya are still kicking around, so happy to see that. I did a couple writeups on Shine and The Fishiking what seems like forever ago.
I still follow results but haven't watched as much as I'd like to, looking to remedy that!
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On September 10 2017 19:30 Raelcun wrote:Too High: Bisu [#3] as much as it hurts to say it, I want him to be number three, but he just hasn't put the performance out there at all. He shows flashes of brilliance but nothing worthy of putting him at number 3 Last [#2] This is a holdover from when Brood War was still starting to return and Flash had come back and started showing Terrans how to play again. He hasn't put forth an impressive finish in quite a long time but everyone still insists he's solidly #2 behind Flash.
So this means you think Soulkey is the second best BW player alive?
It's so so easy to cherry pick individual players you think "deserve" to be higher without taking into consideration how the list would turn out if you actually implemented your changes. Sometimes a player gets a "high" ranking not because he is dominating, but because no one else besides Flash is dominating either.
I commend you for at least naming a few players you think deserve to be lower, but putting Last and Bisu behind Soulkey is bizarre.
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On September 10 2017 20:05 Jae Zedong wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 19:30 Raelcun wrote:Too High: Bisu [#3] as much as it hurts to say it, I want him to be number three, but he just hasn't put the performance out there at all. He shows flashes of brilliance but nothing worthy of putting him at number 3 Last [#2] This is a holdover from when Brood War was still starting to return and Flash had come back and started showing Terrans how to play again. He hasn't put forth an impressive finish in quite a long time but everyone still insists he's solidly #2 behind Flash. So this means you think Soulkey is the second best BW player alive? It's so so easy to cherry pick individual players you think "deserve" to be higher without taking into consideration how the list would turn out if you actually implemented your changes. Sometimes a player gets a "high" ranking not because he is dominating, but because no one else besides Flash is dominating either. I commend you for at least naming a few players you think deserve to be lower, but putting Last and Bisu behind Soulkey is bizarre. Jesus Christ stop taking it so seriously. Power Ranks are for fun, arguing about Power Ranks is for fun. You're an old man yelling at everyone to stop having fun.
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On September 10 2017 20:05 Jae Zedong wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 19:30 Raelcun wrote:Too High: Bisu [#3] as much as it hurts to say it, I want him to be number three, but he just hasn't put the performance out there at all. He shows flashes of brilliance but nothing worthy of putting him at number 3 Last [#2] This is a holdover from when Brood War was still starting to return and Flash had come back and started showing Terrans how to play again. He hasn't put forth an impressive finish in quite a long time but everyone still insists he's solidly #2 behind Flash. So this means you think Soulkey is the second best BW player alive? It's so so easy to cherry pick individual players you think "deserve" to be higher without taking into consideration how the list would turn out if you actually implemented your changes. Sometimes a player gets a "high" ranking not because he is dominating, but because no one else besides Flash is dominating either. I commend you for at least naming a few players you think deserve to be lower, but putting Last and Bisu behind Soulkey is bizarre.
You're thinking about this wrong. I didn't list Soulkey as being too low because I think putting him at 4 is fair. I just don't think Bisu and Last are the #2 and #3 players right now. If anything, I'd probably push soulkey down to 5 or 6 but I'm not going to mention that for pushing him down 2 places and you could make an argument for him being as high as 4.
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I don't even want to argue with the ranking of Stork but with the content of his description. He mentioned chilling out and trying to be more entertaining in January or so. Since then, especially in the past month, he's been the last man streaming numerous times. Just yesterday I watched him play with Firebathero around 21-22 CEST. That's like 3-4 am in Korea.
He's still not back at where I think he should be (and whatever, who am I) so he'll be something of a black horse tomorrow, I think but writing what has been written here doesn't do justice to current Stork, I think.
Disclaimer: Fanboy, I am, of course, still hoping to keep it objective.
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On September 10 2017 20:07 Aylear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 20:05 Jae Zedong wrote:On September 10 2017 19:30 Raelcun wrote:Too High: Bisu [#3] as much as it hurts to say it, I want him to be number three, but he just hasn't put the performance out there at all. He shows flashes of brilliance but nothing worthy of putting him at number 3 Last [#2] This is a holdover from when Brood War was still starting to return and Flash had come back and started showing Terrans how to play again. He hasn't put forth an impressive finish in quite a long time but everyone still insists he's solidly #2 behind Flash. So this means you think Soulkey is the second best BW player alive? It's so so easy to cherry pick individual players you think "deserve" to be higher without taking into consideration how the list would turn out if you actually implemented your changes. Sometimes a player gets a "high" ranking not because he is dominating, but because no one else besides Flash is dominating either. I commend you for at least naming a few players you think deserve to be lower, but putting Last and Bisu behind Soulkey is bizarre. Jesus Christ stop taking it so seriously. Power Ranks are for fun, arguing about Power Ranks is for fun. You're an old man yelling at everyone to stop having fun.
What's your fucking problem? I am discussing the power ranks, I'm not telling anyone to stop having fun.
I was having fun until you decided to call me a "jerk" on the previous page. I didn't reply because I didn't want to stoop that low, but here you are again derailing the discussion.
I am of the opinion that the power rank is generally correct. I have every right to question criticism of it.
On September 10 2017 20:09 Raelcun wrote: You're thinking about this wrong. I didn't list Soulkey as being too low because I think putting him at 4 is fair. I just don't think Bisu and Last are the #2 and #3 players right now. If anything, I'd probably push soulkey down to 5 or 6 but I'm not going to mention that for pushing him down 2 places and you could make an argument for him being as high as 4.
Alright, fair enough.
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Japan11285 Posts
On September 10 2017 20:07 Aylear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 20:05 Jae Zedong wrote:On September 10 2017 19:30 Raelcun wrote:Too High: Bisu [#3] as much as it hurts to say it, I want him to be number three, but he just hasn't put the performance out there at all. He shows flashes of brilliance but nothing worthy of putting him at number 3 Last [#2] This is a holdover from when Brood War was still starting to return and Flash had come back and started showing Terrans how to play again. He hasn't put forth an impressive finish in quite a long time but everyone still insists he's solidly #2 behind Flash. So this means you think Soulkey is the second best BW player alive? It's so so easy to cherry pick individual players you think "deserve" to be higher without taking into consideration how the list would turn out if you actually implemented your changes. Sometimes a player gets a "high" ranking not because he is dominating, but because no one else besides Flash is dominating either. I commend you for at least naming a few players you think deserve to be lower, but putting Last and Bisu behind Soulkey is bizarre. Jesus Christ stop taking it so seriously. Power Ranks are for fun, arguing about Power Ranks is for fun. You're an old man yelling at everyone to stop having fun. Idk man, it feels like you need to stop taking him seriously and eh, do this thing called "arguing about Power Ranks" ^_^
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On September 10 2017 20:34 Jae Zedong wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 20:07 Aylear wrote:On September 10 2017 20:05 Jae Zedong wrote:On September 10 2017 19:30 Raelcun wrote:Too High: Bisu [#3] as much as it hurts to say it, I want him to be number three, but he just hasn't put the performance out there at all. He shows flashes of brilliance but nothing worthy of putting him at number 3 Last [#2] This is a holdover from when Brood War was still starting to return and Flash had come back and started showing Terrans how to play again. He hasn't put forth an impressive finish in quite a long time but everyone still insists he's solidly #2 behind Flash. So this means you think Soulkey is the second best BW player alive? It's so so easy to cherry pick individual players you think "deserve" to be higher without taking into consideration how the list would turn out if you actually implemented your changes. Sometimes a player gets a "high" ranking not because he is dominating, but because no one else besides Flash is dominating either. I commend you for at least naming a few players you think deserve to be lower, but putting Last and Bisu behind Soulkey is bizarre. Jesus Christ stop taking it so seriously. Power Ranks are for fun, arguing about Power Ranks is for fun. You're an old man yelling at everyone to stop having fun. What's your fucking problem?
On September 10 2017 15:51 Jae Zedong wrote: Anyone who says some players deserve to be higher should list an equal number of players that deserve to be be lower. Not like that guy who listed 5 players that should be higher and only 1 player who should be lower. Anything else is just intellectually dishonest.
It's just like ahead of every World Cup in soccer where at least 10 teams say they "deserve" to reach the semis, which only 4 teams can reach. Reaching the quarter-finals is seen as a complete failure even though that means you are one of the top 8 teams in the world. National coaches get fired all the time over such basic lack of math.
People should stop being so entitled, especially on behalf of others. This. If you can't see this as being needlessly aggressive and hateful then I don't know what to tell you.
Do me a favor: Don't be a jerk your whole life.
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United States4883 Posts
On September 10 2017 20:38 Aylear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 20:34 Jae Zedong wrote:On September 10 2017 20:07 Aylear wrote:On September 10 2017 20:05 Jae Zedong wrote:On September 10 2017 19:30 Raelcun wrote:Too High: Bisu [#3] as much as it hurts to say it, I want him to be number three, but he just hasn't put the performance out there at all. He shows flashes of brilliance but nothing worthy of putting him at number 3 Last [#2] This is a holdover from when Brood War was still starting to return and Flash had come back and started showing Terrans how to play again. He hasn't put forth an impressive finish in quite a long time but everyone still insists he's solidly #2 behind Flash. So this means you think Soulkey is the second best BW player alive? It's so so easy to cherry pick individual players you think "deserve" to be higher without taking into consideration how the list would turn out if you actually implemented your changes. Sometimes a player gets a "high" ranking not because he is dominating, but because no one else besides Flash is dominating either. I commend you for at least naming a few players you think deserve to be lower, but putting Last and Bisu behind Soulkey is bizarre. Jesus Christ stop taking it so seriously. Power Ranks are for fun, arguing about Power Ranks is for fun. You're an old man yelling at everyone to stop having fun. What's your fucking problem? Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 15:51 Jae Zedong wrote: Anyone who says some players deserve to be higher should list an equal number of players that deserve to be be lower. Not like that guy who listed 5 players that should be higher and only 1 player who should be lower. Anything else is just intellectually dishonest.
It's just like ahead of every World Cup in soccer where at least 10 teams say they "deserve" to reach the semis, which only 4 teams can reach. Reaching the quarter-finals is seen as a complete failure even though that means you are one of the top 8 teams in the world. National coaches get fired all the time over such basic lack of math.
People should stop being so entitled, especially on behalf of others. This. If you can't see this as being needlessly aggressive and hateful then I don't know what to tell you. Do me a favor: Don't be a jerk your whole life.
Power Ranks sometimes bring out the worst in people. Everyone needs to remember that these are just opinions and are open to debate; it is 100% completely fair to debate whether someone "deserves" to be higher or lower. There's no reason to make any of this personal.
Also, stop feeding the troll.
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United States10095 Posts
On September 10 2017 19:30 Raelcun wrote:I have been watching basically any StarCraft I can find with Aylear over the last year and a half and I have to say this powerrank feels very steeped in very old performances and biased by the histories of these players as opposed to their performance in the last year or so. Too Low: MisO [#28] This is criminal. He has been on a very large upswing in all of the things he's been playing in recently and taking out very solid players and putting together large winstreaks in winner stays on format events. He definitely needs to be above Stork and Shuttle at the very least. He should be up at around 15 ideally. Sky [#19] He's been destroying everyone on the ladder. sSak [#14] I still think he's an idiot for admitting on stream he was planning to evade mandatory military service, but still one of the scarier terrans around. firebathero [#26] He has shown a lot of impressive games on his stream, he plays long hours of grinding out practice with barely any screwing around when he plays. Shine [#10] This feels like the new Shuttle from ASL 1. He's been playing well in a lot of events since the last ASL and everyone seems to be writing off his performance from the last one. He had a hard time getting practice for the last tournament and is currently ranked high enough on the ladder he's playing with all the top players regularly. Mong [#16] I feel like he should be up around in the 13 range. He's been very solid recently. Too High: Bisu [#3] as much as it hurts to say it, I want him to be number three, but he just hasn't put the performance out there at all. He shows flashes of brilliance but nothing worthy of putting him at number 3 Last [#2] This is a holdover from when Brood War was still starting to return and Flash had come back and started showing Terrans how to play again. He hasn't put forth an impressive finish in quite a long time but everyone still insists he's solidly #2 behind Flash. Larva [#6] He has been improving A LOT but he has a history of dropping the ball in ASL, so especially if players are going to get ranked low despite one high finish, I don't understand why he's at #6 Mind [#7]Seriously, I don't understand this at all. He hasn't done anything recently. Light [#11] Completely failed to impress me in the last few months. Strange: Snow [#13] Snow is a gigantic X factor. His playstyle is difficult to predict at times and he does things that are frankly insane and somehow makes them work. He should be above a lot of the people that are higher than him, but he probably still deserves to be in the 11-15 range. Shuttle [#20] Criminally underrated in ASL1 and then he just stopped practicing. He seemed to switch to just being a BJ for several tournaments as he basically never played on stream. Recently, he's been playing hard again and it's hard to place him as he's taking out good players, but still seems inconsistent. Much better than he was last ASL but probably wouldn't put him above 18 That all being said, compiling these types of lists is very difficult and much respect to the staff who had to make a lot of difficult decisions. sky destroying everyone on ladder doesnt mean anything when you go into tournaments when he cant win. im glad to prove a lot of people wrong with our power ranks. also you clearly havent looked at tournament results with mind and light. you say you've watched a lot of starcraft, we'll just see how good that knowledge of yours is when the games are actually played out. Larva impressive as ever in that group so im always happy to prove people wrong.
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Either Flash will win a third consecutive ASL or we'll have a lame ZvZ finals. History dictates it.
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Real Power rankings:
1. Snow 2. Bisu 3. Rain 4. I guess Flash... 5. Everyone else. 31. Shine. Since hydra busts will be banned in ASL 4
Ya'll are biased and I see right through you.
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Great ranking :-)
I think Mind and Soulkey are too high (especially Mind) while Shuttle and Mong are too low (especially Shuttle).
And Last... + Show Spoiler +deserved his #2 spot, even though he's already out of the ASL. He's an incredible beast that's been taking out all top pros left and right on streams, and it's shocking he's out so early.
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United States10095 Posts
On September 11 2017 14:58 rackdude wrote:Real Power rankings: 1. Snow2. Bisu3. Rain4. I guess Flash... 5. Everyone else. 31. Shine. Since hydra busts will be banned in ASL 4 Ya'll are biased and I see right through you. sorry to break your bubble but Killer already did a hydra bust vs Sky day 1 xD
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On September 12 2017 10:10 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 14:58 rackdude wrote:Real Power rankings: 1. Snow2. Bisu3. Rain4. I guess Flash... 5. Everyone else. 31. Shine. Since hydra busts will be banned in ASL 4 Ya'll are biased and I see right through you. sorry to break your bubble but Killer already did a hydra bust vs Sky day 1 xD Finals is going to be Shine vs Killer.
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Completely missed this. Thanks for the awesome write up!
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Awesome power rank, I'm so hyped for this tournament!~
As much as I like seeing Bisu ranked all the way at #3, I'm not certain the spot is deserved... Hoping he will prove that he deserves a top three spot!
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Haha nobody has yet mentioned what it is Rain does on stream :p
First rule of fight club?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
oh no, I was referencing shuttle's comments and the fact that almost half the time its actually true when I tune into rain's stream
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=26646231
On August 02 2017 12:54 Letmelose wrote: Shuttle's thoughts translated.
6. On Rain
"In my opinion, Rain is superior to both SnOw and Mini. I haven't checked his ELO, or overall records in sponsored games, but I can just tell by watching him play. The way he uses his units, his multi-tasking, and overall gaming abilities are all superior. He is truly Bisu's successor. The only thing that's stopping him is the fact that he wastes all his time staring at boobies. He's the kind of player who can do great things if he practices hard."
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all you need to do is watch his stream. he just loves watching female africans!!
very frustrating because i always want to see him play but i always catch him giving commentary and analysis on various women...
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And just when I thought you couldn't get more ridiculous than calling people BJs...
On September 13 2017 13:53 CHEONSOYUN wrote: all you need to do is watch his stream. he just loves watching female africans!!
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Rain is severely underrated here. Do people forget that he was on his way to being #2 to bisu before he left to dominate the sc2 scene? Then he came back and his still at the top.
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