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Maybe this post does not really have a point, but Starcraft and mechanical keyboards are my two big hobbies, so i'll ramble on a bit about keyboards. Maybe a blog post would have been better suited but I didn't figure out how to post one, sorry.
In SC:R Blizzard allows us to change hotkeys, but as a compromise has decided to keep control group keys (1-0) and camera hotkeys (F2, F3, F4) at their original position.
One of my favorite boards is the G80-3000.
Unfortunately playing SC on it is not really an option because the distance between number row and F row is very large.
+ Show Spoiler +
In contrast, there are more compact boards which have no distance between the number row and the F row at all. For example the AJAZZ AK33. (not my picture)
+ Show Spoiler +
Another issue is programmability. The Logitech G710 has programmable "G-keys" on the left side of the board. You could map these to 6,7,8,9,0 so you won't have to reach across the whole keyboard for your hatcheries.
Some custom mechanical keyboards even rely on programmability to have full functionality. This is especially true for small form factor boards like the pok3r or GH60-based keyboards:
+ Show Spoiler +
These boards don't have dedicated F-keys, so a player using such a board could for example bind F2-F4 to Space+Q, Space+W, Space+E (possible on GH60, not on pok3r). Of course someone using such a programmable keyboard could also do something more extreme like making a starcraft-dedicated layer and put number keys and F-keys right next to a 3x3 grid. (possible on both pok3r and gh60)
Going further, there are 40% boards like the Atreus and the Planck. They don't have dedicated number keys, so to play SC on them you have to do a bit of trickery, like adding a Starcraft-dedicated layer to the firmware where all the important keys are somewhat reachable, possibly creating a much more comfortable layout.
Atreus:
+ Show Spoiler +
So what would be a really efficient Starcraft Keyboard? For me, I would like to have access to shift and control via my thumb, since im kind of inaccurate with my pinky; and of course it should have number and F-keys close to the normal hotkeys. This is something i came up with:
+ Show Spoiler +
Would that be comfortable and fun to use? To find out, I built it:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CYsp6hL.jpg)
More pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +Lasercut acrylic: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iWaQq1w.jpg) Switches installed: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Vmqkx4I.jpg) Wiring done: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tlhjVoU.jpg) Keycaps and Protoss logo installed and picture of underside: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fKFuHis.jpg) I have not really tried it out yet, but building it was a lot of fun.
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this is so cool! I spend a lot of time and money on keyboards, and in the end I made many of the same conclusions you have made.
I think one major change I would have made to your keyboard would be the switches. I've tried to use switches with different weight, and I've noticed that the higher the actuation force is the lower your apm will be. with my 75 g alps boards, my apm fell from 260 to 230. I attribute this your hands becoming fatigued quicker from many presses.
Finally recently I got my hands on my first 35 g board, which really surprised me with how light it feels. Not only did my apm increase, but I also found it much easier to play for prolonged periods of time, as my hand doesn't get fatigued nearly as easy.
As to tactility, I don't think there's a right answer for RTS games. For FPS'es linear switches are a must, but for RTS I don't think it matters. Personally I like topre and topre clones as they strike a good balance between linearity along with tactile feedback with a force curve that makes it easy to bottom out (which all of starcraft gamers do).
I would definitely consider modding the switches with 30-35 g springs. It's surprising how big a role actuation force plays on your apm.
Personally I would recommend the plum 84 keyboard to anyone who is serious about gaming, as it aces pretty much every criteria one can set for a gaming keyboard.
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Interesting, never knew that you could rebind f keys on certain keyboards. Being able to re-program your fkeys to Q/W/E would be a huge advantage but having to hold space while hitting those keys is a deal breaker for me. If it wasn't for that i would have tried that board out.
I'm currently using a Realforce 86U w/ modded 45G keys. I love everything about my keyboard but i do wish i had easier access to f keys.
Is there a topre keyboard with the same compact layout as the AJAZZ AK33 // Noppoo Choc Mini?
edit: Or do you know of a good compact membrane keyboard? The Cherry ML4100 has a good layout but i heard that the switches need a lot of lubing, any other similar membrane boards available?
![[image loading]](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1203/1186761186_bc8280212e_o.jpg)
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Programmable boards using QMK or TMK firmware (for example the GH60) allow you to do almost everything you can imagine. Very simple solution could be to put the F-keys here:
+ Show Spoiler +
and make it toggle-able so you can use your board normally when not ingame.
Thinking about it, that should be easily possible on a pok3r as well.
Cherry ML is not a membrane keyboard, it's actually mechanical but has less key travel. I have one of these and i can't really say anything about key feel since i didn't lube them yet and that's probably necessary to make it decent. But the keys are somewhat smaller and I can not imagine getting used to that.
Is there a topre keyboard with the same compact layout as the AJAZZ AK33 // Noppoo Choc Mini?
Yes, the plum84, which MperorM1 recommended. It's a topre clone though, and i'm not sure if it comes in 45g.
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plum84 looks very interesting, thx. sadly it only comes in 35g, might give it a try tho.
whats the difference between 10g and 20g springs? makes it harder to press on keys?
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Do you mean springs you put on top of the switch or the ones that are underneath the rubber cup of topre switches?
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In regards to the GH60, would it be possible to set the f keys to ONLY Q/W/E ingame without having to activate them by hitting space? And like you said we could make it toggle-able for windows.
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I put some G20 ABS Keycaps on my Filco TKL with blue switches and I really like it as a Starcraft keyboard (specifically BW because of the flat keycap profile). They're not a very well known keycap style but there's a surprising amount of though behind the design. Check out some of the screenshots to see what I mean.
The uniform flat profile makes it easy to "feel" your way across the keys to hit the tough (default) hotkeys.
The top 'face' of they keycaps have more surface area and and there's less space between keys, which sounds like it would cause more accidental keystrokes but it actually decreases them for me. The squared off sides combined with the increased surface area make it easier to hit the key you're going for.
Plus, there's a shit ton of color choices and combinations and printing styles and even graphics to choose from if that's your thing!
P.S. And someone always asks so I'll answer in advance. The two 'homerow' keys have a slight circular indentation that your fingers can find pretty easily.
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Should be springs that go on top of the switch to add some more force:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 18 2017 21:02 TT1 wrote:
In regards to the GH60, would it be possible to set the f keys to ONLY Q/W/E ingame without having to activate them by hitting space? And like you said we could make it toggle-able for windows.
Yes absolutely, you can put any key in any position.
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Are there reliable posters who can put together a GH60 and program it for you? Maybe on Geekhack?
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I personally prefer deskthority.net but you will definitely find someone on geekhack as well.
I don't remember exactly how much you can do on a pok3r, but that might be easier for you.
On the pok3r you can remap stuff right on the keyboard without having to go into firmware. But i don't 100% remember if you can put any key on any position on it.
Downsides are:
- you can't do any real magic (like here https://docs.qmk.fm/, see "features"), just simple remapping and layers.
- only limited switch options
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On August 18 2017 20:48 TT1 wrote:
plum84 looks very interesting, thx. sadly it only comes in 35g, might give it a try tho.
whats the difference between 10g and 20g springs? makes it harder to press on keys?
the plum84 comes with external springs you can put under each keycap for extra weight, however that will change the force curve equally across the press, meaning that the switch will feel more linear, so it won't feel like 45 g topre.
My previous daily driver was a leopold fc980c but after trying 35 g topre clones, I can never go back. I personally absolutely love the 35 g feel, as the keyboard feels so light to type on.
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This thread is a nice case in point for why "not being allowed to rebind all keys" is unenforceable.
Also: nice keyboard making skills!
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Woah, that is amazing, I don't personally use Custom hotkeys ( Only changed Probe / Pylon to E, I could see the benifits of rebinding the F keys although.) This is fucking amazing, hat off to you and your custom Protoss Keyboard. 
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tobai or MperorM1 have either of you heard of the KC60? Apparently it's a GH60 copy, i was thinking about buying 1 from someone (only 40$, it has gateron brown switches and PBT caps) but i'm not sure about the build quality, can't find too much info on it online either.
https://i.imgur.com/uIiPiht.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/s5vWjY1.jpg
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Does Alt key do anything? I never used it. All I found that it might be any use is (from liquipedia entry):
Alt+Click on own unit: Select all units of its last group (group = units selected by any way)
...which I don't know what it actually means.
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alt tab? 
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I actually use the Ajazz Ak33, what I've done is bound F1-F4 as hotkeys 7,8,9,0. I use my Fkeys on tilde,tab,caps.
Also I play with a great deal of commands on c,v,b where my thumb basically does a lot of work. to kinda make it useable in both daily drives and starcraft use i have keycaps that extend out of specific keys so that its really easy for my fingers to find themselves. My only problem as of now is the board came with 65g'ish and they are pretty hefty not gonna lie, thinking of putting reds in or some shit if its easy.
Honestly I wouldnt say that the rebinds are worth if you have a great deal of muscle memory built up, you are fighting yourself more than the game at that point. For me coming back to RTS i decided to try it, I don't regret it but its a long term commitment to see any benefits. I'd still have to put in just as much time as anyone else you may have a theoretical higher ceiling but until someone comes out and does it I think its fine.
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On September 03 2017 12:13 riotjune wrote:
Does Alt key do anything? I never used it. All I found that it might be any use is (from liquipedia entry):
Alt+Click on own unit: Select all units of its last group (group = units selected by any way)
...which I don't know what it actually means.
Say you select a group of units and tell them to do something. If you alt click on any one of those units that you just selected, it'll re-select the whole group.
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This is beyond lame. Depending on keyboard you get to remap hotkeys or not. So much for worrying about comp advantages. Circus.
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On September 03 2017 13:28 dhe95 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2017 12:13 riotjune wrote:
Does Alt key do anything? I never used it. All I found that it might be any use is (from liquipedia entry):
Alt+Click on own unit: Select all units of its last group (group = units selected by any way)
...which I don't know what it actually means. Say you select a group of units and tell them to do something. If you alt click on any one of those units that you just selected, it'll re-select the whole group.
Thanks. I just tried it in-game, seems like a redundant feature when you can just press the hotkey number to select your control group. The other Alt functions seem redundant as well, don't see myself using this key other than Alt-Tabbing
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alt + c centers camera on unit, i use this every game xD
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Odd of OP to not include software means for custom hotkey setups. Probably stems from trying to avoid stepping on the toes of the pedantry between OG and custom hotkey setups. Enough derailing, move to another thread to discuss semantics.
StarCraft Remastered has not (yet?) implemented key layering and custom hotkeys for camera and unit selection. TheCore and an alternation of TheCore, TheCore Lite, has had significant community response and research exceeding over half of a decade. TheCore Lite has the best of familiarity, ergonomics, and speed of any custom hotkey layout.
On the Razer Blade through Razer Synapse each key input can be changed to another key.
In a best attempt to emulate TheCore Lite in StarCraft Remastered on a Razer Blade:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/4o6YorG.png) Red: Camera Hotkeys Purple: Control Groups Blue: All-Purpose Buttons, i.e., spells, buildings, attack commands Green: Shift Cyan: Control
Notes:
- camera hotkeys may want to be pushed in slightly to the right for comfort.
- shift and control buttons are positioned for comfort, completely subjective to the user
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Damnit TT1... I have a custom keyboard but the Plum84 is super tempting now. Pretty fair price for bluetooth and rgb and "topre" switches which I never tried before, might have to give it a go. What are your thoughts on yours?
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lmao TT1
my MacBook keyboard is the best way to play sc yo xD
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On September 04 2017 07:47 Demurity wrote:
Damnit TT1... I have a custom keyboard but the Plum84 is super tempting now. Pretty fair price for bluetooth and rgb and "topre" switches which I never tried before, might have to give it a go. What are your thoughts on yours?
I didnt buy the Plum84 cus it has 35g switches, i bought the Plum75 cus it has 45g switches which are great for gaming (plum75 also has close f keys, not as close as plum84 tho). Still haven't gotten it yet, i'm currently using a topre realforce keyboard and they're by far the best switches i've ever used.. and i own like 15 keyboards. Plum keyboards don't use real topre switches tho, they're topre clones.
A real topre keyboard costs anywhere from 230 to 300$. You can get a plum 75 for 99$ (black version, no bluetooth/rgb etc.) or 130$ (white version with pbt caps). Plum 84 costs like 120 or 130$. Looks like a great value board, the reviews i've read so far have all been really positive.
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On September 04 2017 10:44 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2017 07:47 Demurity wrote:
Damnit TT1... I have a custom keyboard but the Plum84 is super tempting now. Pretty fair price for bluetooth and rgb and "topre" switches which I never tried before, might have to give it a go. What are your thoughts on yours? I didnt buy the Plum84 cus it has 35g switches, i bought the Plum75 cus it has 45g switches which are great for gaming (plum75 also has close f keys, not as close as plum84 tho). Still haven't gotten it yet, i'm currently using a topre realforce keyboard and they're by far the best switches i've ever used.. and i own like 15 keyboards. Plum keyboards don't use real topre switches tho, they're topre clones. A real topre keyboard costs anywhere from 230 to 300$. You can get a plum 75 for 99$ (black version, no bluetooth/rgb etc.) or 130$ (white version with pbt caps). Plum 84 costs like 120 or 130$. Looks like a great value board, the reviews i've read so far have all been really positive.
Yeah, the Plum75 is nice but I need home/end keys. I went with a custom board with gateron reds over a topre, makes me curious now to know what topre's would be like... hnggg
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On September 04 2017 11:23 Demurity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2017 10:44 TT1 wrote:On September 04 2017 07:47 Demurity wrote:
Damnit TT1... I have a custom keyboard but the Plum84 is super tempting now. Pretty fair price for bluetooth and rgb and "topre" switches which I never tried before, might have to give it a go. What are your thoughts on yours? I didnt buy the Plum84 cus it has 35g switches, i bought the Plum75 cus it has 45g switches which are great for gaming (plum75 also has close f keys, not as close as plum84 tho). Still haven't gotten it yet, i'm currently using a topre realforce keyboard and they're by far the best switches i've ever used.. and i own like 15 keyboards. Plum keyboards don't use real topre switches tho, they're topre clones. A real topre keyboard costs anywhere from 230 to 300$. You can get a plum 75 for 99$ (black version, no bluetooth/rgb etc.) or 130$ (white version with pbt caps). Plum 84 costs like 120 or 130$. Looks like a great value board, the reviews i've read so far have all been really positive. Yeah, the Plum75 is nice but I need home/end keys. I went with a custom board with gateron reds over a topre, makes me curious now to know what topre's would be like... hnggg
well if you dont mind paying 230$ for a keyboard.. xD
https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se19e0
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A little update, the board I built i kind of stopped using, since it's a hassle to have 2 keyboards on your desk, i now have this layer on my gh60 based build:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/mdeiEU5.png)
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I don't think i could ever get used to a layout like that . I'd much rather use regular f keys (preferably closer f keys like on the plum 84 and 75), you can cycle through the keys quicker (which is really important when you wanna evacuate workers or build them).
putting shift on spacebar is cute tho, i like that. makes it easier to setup your cam keys.
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u don't need keyboards with programmable keys. all keyboards can do that with certain programs or changing stuff in the registry.
i love this though, I love good keyboards. how they feel...
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What did it cost you to make this keyboard? What kind of tools do you need to make it happen? And from 1 to 10 how difficult was everything. From editing the layout to building it?do you have any good videos of how to do this? and what website did you use?
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If you want a real legit sick KR board look at : http://winkeyless.kr
![[image loading]](https://scontent-lhr3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/13628233_517890971729253_601883836_n.jpg)
an example of what you can get, but everything is customizable when you put it together on the site. That certain model is the b.mini which I thought would be nice for RTS because the F keys and number keys are aligned and everything, and it has been so far.
As for help on what to get you could just email the guy and he is really good at communicating and trying to get you exactly what you want, you can get it mostly assembled by him but it costs extra
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My previous keyboard died last night. I ordered the Velocifire TKL78 mechanical keyboard last night for $28.99, anyone have experience with or use this keyboard?
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On January 19 2018 00:04 zoNin wrote:If you want a real legit sick KR board look at : http://winkeyless.kran example of what you can get, but everything is customizable when you put it together on the site. That certain model is the b.mini which I thought would be nice for RTS because the F keys and number keys are aligned and everything, and it has been so far. As for help on what to get you could just email the guy and he is really good at communicating and trying to get you exactly what you want, you can get it mostly assembled by him but it costs extra
Are all of these Mechanical keyboards or not? Because they seem extremely basic and standard if they aren't Mechanical, I cannot understand the over 100$ pricetag, just sayin...
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I can't see myself ever buying a $100+ keyboard. Screwwwww that.
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You can get Cherry clone switches just like EndingLife did for pretty cheap, and they are mechanical. I would recommend doing that rather than getting those branded gaming keyboards because you play a large premium for the brand name.
I'm personally a keyboard hobbyist so this doesn't apply to others but the device I use most in my entire life is actually the keyboard. I work a computer job and play games, so that makes sense. So, a premium keyboard that's going to last me forever is well worth it for my needs since the enhanced experience really makes working and gaming much more enjoyable.
Things that go into the price of an expensive keyboard are not just the switches, but the quality of the build, mainly the case and especially the keycaps. Most cheaper keycaps will use thin, ABS plastic that has that greasy, shiny look over time and likely have a cheap casing overall. If you're into lights, that probably adds to the price as well.
All in all, premium keyboards are not necessary, but are pretty nice if you get to try the right ones
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Maybe someday I'll stop being a cheapskate trying to find bargains and buy a real keyboard. I figured any mechanical keyboard would be an upgrade from my Dell keyboard that just recently broke.
Nice an informative post, as always!
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On February 02 2018 07:02 EndingLife wrote:
I can't see myself ever buying a $100+ keyboard. Screwwwww that.
It's like people who don't want to shell out for a proper mattress. Just think of the time you spend interacting/using this equipment. 8 hours a day, straight, every day.
Shoes I only walk on like 1 hour a day maybe? Wearing a jacket outside, maybe 15 minutes a day?
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I use custom "velcro keys" keyboard
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/0TJfqmM.jpg)
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On August 18 2017 19:52 MperorM1 wrote:
this is so cool! I spend a lot of time and money on keyboards, and in the end I made many of the same conclusions you have made.
I think one major change I would have made to your keyboard would be the switches. I've tried to use switches with different weight, and I've noticed that the higher the actuation force is the lower your apm will be. with my 75 g alps boards, my apm fell from 260 to 230. I attribute this your hands becoming fatigued quicker from many presses.
Finally recently I got my hands on my first 35 g board, which really surprised me with how light it feels. Not only did my apm increase, but I also found it much easier to play for prolonged periods of time, as my hand doesn't get fatigued nearly as easy.
As to tactility, I don't think there's a right answer for RTS games. For FPS'es linear switches are a must, but for RTS I don't think it matters. Personally I like topre and topre clones as they strike a good balance between linearity along with tactile feedback with a force curve that makes it easy to bottom out (which all of starcraft gamers do).
I would definitely consider modding the switches with 30-35 g springs. It's surprising how big a role actuation force plays on your apm.
Personally I would recommend the plum 84 keyboard to anyone who is serious about gaming, as it aces pretty much every criteria one can set for a gaming keyboard.
Would you still recommend the Plum84? It's on massdrop atm and i'm on the fence because some people say the 35g is too light and causes a lot of misclicks. Do you misclick with it?
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Ordered Plum 75 45g version. I’ll see how it feels.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UjjUwVv.jpg)
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