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Starcraft and custom (mechanical) keyboards

Forum Index > BW General
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1 2 3 Next All
tobai
Profile Joined April 2017
28 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-24 22:28:48
August 18 2017 10:41 GMT
#1
Maybe this post does not really have a point, but Starcraft and mechanical keyboards are my two big hobbies, so i'll ramble on a bit about keyboards. Maybe a blog post would have been better suited but I didn't figure out how to post one, sorry.

In SC:R Blizzard allows us to change hotkeys, but as a compromise has decided to keep control group keys (1-0) and camera hotkeys (F2, F3, F4) at their original position.

One of my favorite boards is the G80-3000.
Unfortunately playing SC on it is not really an option because the distance between number row and F row is very large.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


In contrast, there are more compact boards which have no distance between the number row and the F row at all. For example the AJAZZ AK33. (not my picture)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Another issue is programmability. The Logitech G710 has programmable "G-keys" on the left side of the board. You could map these to 6,7,8,9,0 so you won't have to reach across the whole keyboard for your hatcheries.

Some custom mechanical keyboards even rely on programmability to have full functionality. This is especially true for small form factor boards like the pok3r or GH60-based keyboards:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

These boards don't have dedicated F-keys, so a player using such a board could for example bind F2-F4 to Space+Q, Space+W, Space+E (possible on GH60, not on pok3r). Of course someone using such a programmable keyboard could also do something more extreme like making a starcraft-dedicated layer and put number keys and F-keys right next to a 3x3 grid. (possible on both pok3r and gh60)

Going further, there are 40% boards like the Atreus and the Planck. They don't have dedicated number keys, so to play SC on them you have to do a bit of trickery, like adding a Starcraft-dedicated layer to the firmware where all the important keys are somewhat reachable, possibly creating a much more comfortable layout.
Atreus:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


So what would be a really efficient Starcraft Keyboard? For me, I would like to have access to shift and control via my thumb, since im kind of inaccurate with my pinky; and of course it should have number and F-keys close to the normal hotkeys. This is something i came up with:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Would that be comfortable and fun to use? To find out, I built it:

[image loading]
More pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +

Lasercut acrylic:
[image loading]

Switches installed:
[image loading]

Wiring done:
[image loading]

Keycaps and Protoss logo installed and picture of underside:
[image loading]
[image loading]

I have not really tried it out yet, but building it was a lot of fun.
MperorM1
Profile Joined September 2015
90 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 10:55:05
August 18 2017 10:52 GMT
#2
this is so cool! I spend a lot of time and money on keyboards, and in the end I made many of the same conclusions you have made.

I think one major change I would have made to your keyboard would be the switches. I've tried to use switches with different weight, and I've noticed that the higher the actuation force is the lower your apm will be. with my 75 g alps boards, my apm fell from 260 to 230. I attribute this your hands becoming fatigued quicker from many presses.

Finally recently I got my hands on my first 35 g board, which really surprised me with how light it feels. Not only did my apm increase, but I also found it much easier to play for prolonged periods of time, as my hand doesn't get fatigued nearly as easy.

As to tactility, I don't think there's a right answer for RTS games. For FPS'es linear switches are a must, but for RTS I don't think it matters. Personally I like topre and topre clones as they strike a good balance between linearity along with tactile feedback with a force curve that makes it easy to bottom out (which all of starcraft gamers do).

I would definitely consider modding the switches with 30-35 g springs. It's surprising how big a role actuation force plays on your apm.


Personally I would recommend the plum 84 keyboard to anyone who is serious about gaming, as it aces pretty much every criteria one can set for a gaming keyboard.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-03 00:35:11
August 18 2017 11:09 GMT
#3
Interesting, never knew that you could rebind f keys on certain keyboards. Being able to re-program your fkeys to Q/W/E would be a huge advantage but having to hold space while hitting those keys is a deal breaker for me. If it wasn't for that i would have tried that board out.

I'm currently using a Realforce 86U w/ modded 45G keys. I love everything about my keyboard but i do wish i had easier access to f keys.

Is there a topre keyboard with the same compact layout as the AJAZZ AK33 // Noppoo Choc Mini?

edit: Or do you know of a good compact membrane keyboard? The Cherry ML4100 has a good layout but i heard that the switches need a lot of lubing, any other similar membrane boards available?

[image loading]
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
tobai
Profile Joined April 2017
28 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 11:43:06
August 18 2017 11:30 GMT
#4
Programmable boards using QMK or TMK firmware (for example the GH60) allow you to do almost everything you can imagine. Very simple solution could be to put the F-keys here:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

and make it toggle-able so you can use your board normally when not ingame.
Thinking about it, that should be easily possible on a pok3r as well.

Cherry ML is not a membrane keyboard, it's actually mechanical but has less key travel. I have one of these and i can't really say anything about key feel since i didn't lube them yet and that's probably necessary to make it decent. But the keys are somewhat smaller and I can not imagine getting used to that.

Is there a topre keyboard with the same compact layout as the AJAZZ AK33 // Noppoo Choc Mini?

Yes, the plum84, which MperorM1 recommended. It's a topre clone though, and i'm not sure if it comes in 45g.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 11:51:13
August 18 2017 11:48 GMT
#5
plum84 looks very interesting, thx. sadly it only comes in 35g, might give it a try tho.

whats the difference between 10g and 20g springs? makes it harder to press on keys?
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
tobai
Profile Joined April 2017
28 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 11:59:28
August 18 2017 11:57 GMT
#6
Do you mean springs you put on top of the switch or the ones that are underneath the rubber cup of topre switches?
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
August 18 2017 12:00 GMT
#7
http://www.nizkeyboard.com/product/pre-ordernew-arrival-bluetooth-usb-ec-keyboard-758487108keys/

under option it says spring 10g/20g
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 12:03:53
August 18 2017 12:02 GMT
#8
In regards to the GH60, would it be possible to set the f keys to ONLY Q/W/E ingame without having to activate them by hitting space? And like you said we could make it toggle-able for windows.
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
tetrash0t
Profile Joined March 2010
United States42 Posts
August 18 2017 12:02 GMT
#9
I put some G20 ABS Keycaps on my Filco TKL with blue switches and I really like it as a Starcraft keyboard (specifically BW because of the flat keycap profile). They're not a very well known keycap style but there's a surprising amount of though behind the design. Check out some of the screenshots to see what I mean.

The uniform flat profile makes it easy to "feel" your way across the keys to hit the tough (default) hotkeys.

The top 'face' of they keycaps have more surface area and and there's less space between keys, which sounds like it would cause more accidental keystrokes but it actually decreases them for me. The squared off sides combined with the increased surface area make it easier to hit the key you're going for.

Plus, there's a shit ton of color choices and combinations and printing styles and even graphics to choose from if that's your thing!

P.S. And someone always asks so I'll answer in advance. The two 'homerow' keys have a slight circular indentation that your fingers can find pretty easily.
Its all about perspective
tobai
Profile Joined April 2017
28 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 12:08:24
August 18 2017 12:04 GMT
#10
On August 18 2017 21:00 TT1 wrote:
http://www.nizkeyboard.com/product/pre-ordernew-arrival-bluetooth-usb-ec-keyboard-758487108keys/

under option it says spring 10g/20g



Should be springs that go on top of the switch to add some more force:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
tobai
Profile Joined April 2017
28 Posts
August 18 2017 12:07 GMT
#11
On August 18 2017 21:02 TT1 wrote:
In regards to the GH60, would it be possible to set the f keys to ONLY Q/W/E ingame without having to activate them by hitting space? And like you said we could make it toggle-able for windows.


Yes absolutely, you can put any key in any position.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
August 18 2017 12:11 GMT
#12
Are there reliable posters who can put together a GH60 and program it for you? Maybe on Geekhack?
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
tobai
Profile Joined April 2017
28 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 12:21:31
August 18 2017 12:20 GMT
#13
I personally prefer deskthority.net but you will definitely find someone on geekhack as well.
I don't remember exactly how much you can do on a pok3r, but that might be easier for you.
On the pok3r you can remap stuff right on the keyboard without having to go into firmware. But i don't 100% remember if you can put any key on any position on it.

Downsides are:
- you can't do any real magic (like here https://docs.qmk.fm/, see "features"), just simple remapping and layers.
- only limited switch options
MperorM1
Profile Joined September 2015
90 Posts
August 18 2017 12:40 GMT
#14
On August 18 2017 20:48 TT1 wrote:
plum84 looks very interesting, thx. sadly it only comes in 35g, might give it a try tho.

whats the difference between 10g and 20g springs? makes it harder to press on keys?


the plum84 comes with external springs you can put under each keycap for extra weight, however that will change the force curve equally across the press, meaning that the switch will feel more linear, so it won't feel like 45 g topre.



My previous daily driver was a leopold fc980c but after trying 35 g topre clones, I can never go back. I personally absolutely love the 35 g feel, as the keyboard feels so light to type on.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-03 00:33:36
September 02 2017 22:28 GMT
#15
I just bought a plum nano 75, it's programmable but you can only change modes via a switch behind the keyboard.. so constantly switching between ur gaming layout and regular layout could get annoying.

I'll try re-binding my f keys closer but i honestly might keep them where they are. I really like the layout, the f keys are quite close and it's a small board so i can position my mouse closer to my keyboard.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Plum-nano75-45g-84-87-35g-electrostatic-capacitive-mechanical-keyboard-bluetooth-BT-mini-gaming-keyboard-PBT/818123_32823957286.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.5bdadf47u8F1rG

[image loading]

ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
vaL4r
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany240 Posts
September 03 2017 00:14 GMT
#16
This thread is a nice case in point for why "not being allowed to rebind all keys" is unenforceable.

Also: nice keyboard making skills!
You need to play starcraft with a light heart. If you play with a heavy heart, you can't win. -NaDa
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10668 Posts
September 03 2017 00:26 GMT
#17
Woah, that is amazing, I don't personally use Custom hotkeys ( Only changed Probe / Pylon to E, I could see the benifits of rebinding the F keys although.) This is fucking amazing, hat off to you and your custom Protoss Keyboard.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-03 01:40:57
September 03 2017 01:36 GMT
#18
tobai or MperorM1 have either of you heard of the KC60? Apparently it's a GH60 copy, i was thinking about buying 1 from someone (only 40$, it has gateron brown switches and PBT caps) but i'm not sure about the build quality, can't find too much info on it online either.

https://i.imgur.com/uIiPiht.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/s5vWjY1.jpg
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3392 Posts
September 03 2017 03:13 GMT
#19
Does Alt key do anything? I never used it. All I found that it might be any use is (from liquipedia entry):

Alt+Click on own unit: Select all units of its last group (group = units selected by any way)

...which I don't know what it actually means.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
September 03 2017 03:31 GMT
#20
alt tab?
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
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