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Information from Korea - Page 53

Forum Index > BW General
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L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
October 27 2017 19:57 GMT
#1041
Yea seems a little early to start putting professional players up against bots, at least based on what I saw when I watched some event a couple months ago.
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
B-royal
Profile Joined May 2015
Belgium1330 Posts
October 27 2017 20:49 GMT
#1042
On October 27 2017 16:08 JungleTerrain wrote:
That's not what I meant, I know about BWAI. I mean like in Dota where Elon Musk's team made an AI that was better than pros and could beat them consistently to the point that people wanted to train against the AI for practice. As in, an actual legit challenge for a pro in a showmatch (vs Stork?). I wasn't specific enough because screw me


Please don't intentionally spread misinformation.

1. the bot isn't consistently beating pro's.
2. it's 1v1 games which don't mean anything in a game like dota
3. the games had special rules/limitations such as no runes, no returning to fountain,...
4. the bot doesn't analyze pixels on the screen nor does it use a keyboard or anything as a form of input. This means it has a significant mechanical advantage.

http://www.wildml.com/2017/08/hype-or-not-some-perspective-on-openais-dota-2-bot/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15000779
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/6t8qvs/openai_bots_were_defeated_atleast_50_times/
https://readwrite.com/2017/08/15/openai-bot-dota2-al1/
new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||
afreecaTV.Char
Profile Joined December 2014
United States337 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-27 21:17:44
October 27 2017 21:17 GMT
#1043
On October 27 2017 17:11 HaN- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2017 11:18 K.H.J wrote:
Man vs AI

10/31 13:00 KST Sejong university

Stork vs MJ bot(korea) , ZZZK(Australia), TSCMO(Norway)

Total 3set


Do you know the stream link?


It will be streamed here - afreecatv.com/afstar1
Former AfreecaTV Esports Manager (2014-2024)
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
October 27 2017 21:29 GMT
#1044
I honestly dont know why anyone is interested in watching humans play vs ai. I mean, from one perspective, its inherently disinteresting as its a single player game, no competition. Snore. And on the other level, its even more boring, as the ai can only be competitive if it micros with 52397523950732 apm, something a human can not do. Which is not really 'intelligence' in any meaningful sense, so again, snore.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4163 Posts
October 27 2017 22:08 GMT
#1045
On October 28 2017 06:29 Dazed. wrote:
I honestly dont know why anyone is interested in watching humans play vs ai. I mean, from one perspective, its inherently disinteresting as its a single player game, no competition. Snore. And on the other level, its even more boring, as the ai can only be competitive if it micros with 52397523950732 apm, something a human can not do. Which is not really 'intelligence' in any meaningful sense, so again, snore.

I mean, ultimately the entertainment value depends on how good the AI is, seeing how the AI reacts to certain actions and how it copes with certain conditions can be interesting.
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
October 28 2017 01:43 GMT
#1046
On October 28 2017 06:29 Dazed. wrote:
I honestly dont know why anyone is interested in watching humans play vs ai. I mean, from one perspective, its inherently disinteresting as its a single player game, no competition. Snore. And on the other level, its even more boring, as the ai can only be competitive if it micros with 52397523950732 apm, something a human can not do. Which is not really 'intelligence' in any meaningful sense, so again, snore.


Right now, yea. But as the AI gets better and offers more of a challenge with less ridiculous APM it should become more interesting.
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
JungleTerrain
Profile Joined January 2012
Chile799 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-28 05:20:34
October 28 2017 05:18 GMT
#1047
On October 28 2017 05:49 B-royal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2017 16:08 JungleTerrain wrote:
That's not what I meant, I know about BWAI. I mean like in Dota where Elon Musk's team made an AI that was better than pros and could beat them consistently to the point that people wanted to train against the AI for practice. As in, an actual legit challenge for a pro in a showmatch (vs Stork?). I wasn't specific enough because screw me


Please don't intentionally spread misinformation.

1. the bot isn't consistently beating pro's.
2. it's 1v1 games which don't mean anything in a game like dota
3. the games had special rules/limitations such as no runes, no returning to fountain,...
4. the bot doesn't analyze pixels on the screen nor does it use a keyboard or anything as a form of input. This means it has a significant mechanical advantage.

http://www.wildml.com/2017/08/hype-or-not-some-perspective-on-openais-dota-2-bot/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15000779
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/6t8qvs/openai_bots_were_defeated_atleast_50_times/
https://readwrite.com/2017/08/15/openai-bot-dota2-al1/


If anyone is taking my vague comments on a game I don't even play on a forum that isn't even about that game as a credible source on the topic, that is not my problem. I'm just asking questions, and I actually find the topic interesting since BW is such a different game.

And most of my information comes from this, I don't care to be really accurate on this topic, though.

www.broodwarmaps.net
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42655 Posts
October 28 2017 05:21 GMT
#1048
That video is like if someone made a scout micro vs scourge bot and insisted warcraft 3 would never be the same again.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8507 Posts
October 29 2017 03:18 GMT
#1049
On October 28 2017 14:21 KwarK wrote:
That video is like if someone made a scout micro vs scourge bot and insisted warcraft 3 would never be the same again.


Good comparison.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
October 29 2017 04:20 GMT
#1050
On October 28 2017 10:43 L_Master wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2017 06:29 Dazed. wrote:
I honestly dont know why anyone is interested in watching humans play vs ai. I mean, from one perspective, its inherently disinteresting as its a single player game, no competition. Snore. And on the other level, its even more boring, as the ai can only be competitive if it micros with 52397523950732 apm, something a human can not do. Which is not really 'intelligence' in any meaningful sense, so again, snore.


Right now, yea. But as the AI gets better and offers more of a challenge with less ridiculous APM it should become more interesting.

Theres a thread on here somewhere about mining effiency, when your scvs mine minerals they will stop for a split second before returning the minerals.You can manually order the scv to return cargo and increase efficiency, which some pros will do very early game but some of these bots do it constantly through the whole game.

As far as advantages go thats i think one of the biggest over human players and personally i think that feature should be disabled vs humans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
KobraKay
Profile Joined March 2010
Portugal4231 Posts
October 29 2017 11:35 GMT
#1051
On October 29 2017 13:20 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2017 10:43 L_Master wrote:
On October 28 2017 06:29 Dazed. wrote:
I honestly dont know why anyone is interested in watching humans play vs ai. I mean, from one perspective, its inherently disinteresting as its a single player game, no competition. Snore. And on the other level, its even more boring, as the ai can only be competitive if it micros with 52397523950732 apm, something a human can not do. Which is not really 'intelligence' in any meaningful sense, so again, snore.


Right now, yea. But as the AI gets better and offers more of a challenge with less ridiculous APM it should become more interesting.

Theres a thread on here somewhere about mining effiency, when your scvs mine minerals they will stop for a split second before returning the minerals.You can manually order the scv to return cargo and increase efficiency, which some pros will do very early game but some of these bots do it constantly through the whole game.

As far as advantages go thats i think one of the biggest over human players and personally i think that feature should be disabled vs humans.


That would completely defeat the purpose in my eyes...if I want to see "someone" win by having better decision making all around and being a little more efficient than the opponent I watch Flash. (please disregard this if you were only talking about that specific thing, nevertheless my principle would still apply to that)

For me the point of having AI playing against humans is to be impressed with solutions and impossible tasks the AI can make in order to win a game. Those kind of "tricks" would show how far the game can be taken. Otherwise you would be hoping what? The AI invents strategies? The maps and scale of battles are small enough to have a big limitation on that. baiting and pushing the correct spots on the battle field to achieve a bigger win elsewhere on the map is something that pro's already do. Maybe new BO or BO optimization is what you want?
CJ Fighting! (--.--)
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11286 Posts
October 29 2017 12:08 GMT
#1052
Even as a guy who hasn't played DotA seriously in years, I can see how the video is trying to make too much out the AI's effect on competition.
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
K.H.J
Profile Blog Joined January 2017
Korea (South)769 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-29 13:36:08
October 29 2017 12:14 GMT
#1053
G-Star SCR league info

11/16~, Busan

Flash Bisu Larva Hero are seed.

This league will hold preliminary.

12 players from Preliminary + 4 players from seed

So, it will start Ro16

And info about Zotac Cup.

Larva will partucipate in Zotac Cup.

12/1~7 LA(USA)
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
October 29 2017 12:21 GMT
#1054
G-star SCR league? Who's running it?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51447 Posts
October 29 2017 12:31 GMT
#1055
last year VSL was running all the e-sports related events at g-star so i'm guessing it will be them again
Commentator
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
October 29 2017 13:56 GMT
#1056
On October 27 2017 23:55 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2017 23:52 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On October 27 2017 19:02 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i guess it made the news thanks to alphago but.. these AI from bw re so low skill...

Yup, the Zerg Ai bots just aren't as good as the terran ones.Won't be worth tuning in to those games.Would have liked to see him play Krasio instead.

LetaBot for that push IMO.



I am currently split between the BW bot and my new SC2 bot. But do tune in on the SSCAI stream after 20 December for the next AI tournament. There you'll see the new features of my bot in action.

http://www.sscaitournament.com/



As for that showmatch vs Stork, Stork will win easily. I guess he simply lives close by the university, or was available at that time or something, which is why they picked him.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
K.H.J
Profile Blog Joined January 2017
Korea (South)769 Posts
October 29 2017 14:14 GMT
#1057
On October 29 2017 22:56 LetaBot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2017 23:55 Jealous wrote:
On October 27 2017 23:52 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On October 27 2017 19:02 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i guess it made the news thanks to alphago but.. these AI from bw re so low skill...

Yup, the Zerg Ai bots just aren't as good as the terran ones.Won't be worth tuning in to those games.Would have liked to see him play Krasio instead.

LetaBot for that push IMO.



I am currently split between the BW bot and my new SC2 bot. But do tune in on the SSCAI stream after 20 December for the next AI tournament. There you'll see the new features of my bot in action.

http://www.sscaitournament.com/



As for that showmatch vs Stork, Stork will win easily. I guess he simply lives close by the university, or was available at that time or something, which is why they picked him.



Well... Stork graduated Sejong university.

And, AI cant play against Zerg or Terran.

Only vs Protoss.

So this university chose stork.

K.H.J
Profile Blog Joined January 2017
Korea (South)769 Posts
October 30 2017 03:56 GMT
#1058
info about ASL5

Some popular players will go army in January, so ASL5 will start right after ASL4.


BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-30 04:29:44
October 30 2017 04:29 GMT
#1059
On October 30 2017 12:56 K.H.J wrote:
info about ASL5

Some popular players will go army in January, so ASL5 will start right after ASL4.



who are these popular players? Bisu? Jaedong? Thanks for the info!
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3095 Posts
October 30 2017 04:34 GMT
#1060
Holy molly, Straight up another ASL. That sounds insane. Guess they want to get another one out of the way before the big draws have to do there military service.

Thanks for the updates man.
Artosis loves Starcraft
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