• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:47
CEST 18:47
KST 01:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!31Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week5Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Starcraft2 player guess game is Coming~!
Tourneys
Wh#tsApp +17423896840 Mighty Hacker Recovery — Dig Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini !!!NEW BUG!!! FIRE ARCHONS [Visual] BW General Discussion New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10073 users

Brood War balance research? Here is mine... - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
tanngard
Profile Joined April 2011
Norway1325 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-15 13:19:18
May 15 2017 13:18 GMT
#21
On May 15 2017 20:35 LaStScan wrote:
I heard a rumor that map testers in the past were BoxeR and Reach only. No zerg tester.
In addition, there was only 1 terran player in top 10 list in 2010. Other terran players couldn't.
Pretty much a lot of terran players learned FlaSh's TvP in the past. There were probably some few cool playstyle players, but FanTaSy was the only one could've come all the way to top list.

FanTaSy's vulture with a dropship play was so insane in the back day.

There was 2-4 terran players in the top 10 kespa rankings in 2010, always. Usually Flash, Fantasy, Light and Sea.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/kespa_ranking.php?section=korean&year=2010&month=12&action=Update
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
May 15 2017 14:24 GMT
#22
On May 15 2017 21:06 Qikz wrote:
That's the problem with this kind of thing as well. Terran could be the worst race, but you might have someone like Flash come along who just beats absolutely everyone and it skews the results.


The problem with this is that you're arbitrarily separating Flash's dominance with the issue of balance. You're saying that he is a complete outlier that is not connected to balance at all.
MiCroLiFe
Profile Joined March 2012
Norway275 Posts
May 15 2017 14:33 GMT
#23
can you do this in sc2 aswell?
Im Terran. Yes i will balance whine somethimes. And thats how we terrans survive, Hoping for balance patches<3
Bonyth
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland611 Posts
May 15 2017 14:34 GMT
#24
http://screenshot.sh/mMDkXHw0kDwVH
CrymeaTerran
Profile Joined May 2017
149 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-15 14:49:07
May 15 2017 14:48 GMT
#25
^ That screenshot, golden. Can confirm
Sziky = Love
LUCKY_NOOB
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Bulgaria1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-15 15:08:50
May 15 2017 14:59 GMT
#26
On May 15 2017 23:33 MiCroLiFe wrote:
can you do this in sc2 aswell?


Yes! If anyone plays SC2 in 10 years I might post something like this about it....

To be fair to SC2 (AND I DONT HAVE TO BE FAIR TO SC2) its a work in progress...
ko-fi.com/luckynoob
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
May 15 2017 15:20 GMT
#27
Terran has always been the historically best race. I also think Terran is the strongest race at higher levels. It's also true that historically the best Protoss players have struggled to establish an era of dominance, as their counterparts in other races did. There is no protoss Bonjwa. + Show Spoiler +
all Bisu fans like myself can protest here, but the fact remains
In my opinion, protoss ist the most volatile race and the race that rewards very high skill the least.
Broodwar for life!
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-15 15:51:30
May 15 2017 15:49 GMT
#28
There have been a number of threads that try to crunch some numbers. Most of them are pretty boring, but there was one extremely good one that had lots of visual graphs, a lot of theory about why the person thought the numbers worked, how they adjusted based on maps and such, and how the S-class players tended to reverse the trend of P>T>Z>P, but for most other players it was generally true.

Unfortunately it's really pretty hard to find that thread using TL search engine. I can't find the one I'm thinking of, but this one has some daunting numbers No comment on the quality as I haven't read it recently. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/324598-balance-and-bonjwas-a-statistical-analysis

There's also been reports on map balance and other in depth things that I seem to recall went way deeper.

In my personal opinion though, part of the vicarious pleasure of StarCraft is that ever so slight perception of imbalance, which none the less is overcome by the strongest players. It's one of those things where you just think how it mirrors real life being imbalanced, but not hopelessly so.

I also think it's a common enough story that many people choose the 'hard' race on purpose in StarCraft, both as a buffer to their ego when they lose, and as a feeling of triumph when they finally win. I mean, that's the story of almost every Terran. It's just that at the pro level, the story kind of reverses, and the so called easy race of Protoss does not have many golden mouse holders.

You also have to just consider human factors at work, completely outside of racial balance, where tournament organizers try to select a map pool that will give good representation of all races, and maybe favour a race that is falling behind. ie the legend of the fall
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
rackdude
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States882 Posts
May 15 2017 18:16 GMT
#29
Here's an interesting discussion to dig up:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/featured/61932-how-zp-cause-t-dominance-math-model
Sweet.
_Animus_
Profile Joined February 2011
Bulgaria1064 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-15 19:29:07
May 15 2017 19:24 GMT
#30
Who doesnt know terran is OP?

Floating command center is huge, not only terran is best at defending, but also can lift his base and save it and then continue on same number of bases, unlike any other race. They have most damage in the game for the less money. They have biggest power and bigest range ground to ground and ground to air and if we include yamato it covers also air to air and air to ground.

On the highest level its the race that have best things in its pocket and when the player use it properly its a dominance over all races.

im posting a great video with all the points discussed in the korean bw community.
Luv ya BroodWar!
Bakuryu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany1065 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-15 20:11:49
May 15 2017 20:10 GMT
#31
whats the point of biggest range if your units die to manlots and zerglings? whats the point of best defence if you cant attack because zerg uses swarm/lurker or protoss blocks ramp with stasis? whats the point if you have the strongest 200/200 ball when zerg uses their mobility to attack undefended bases and protoss uses recall all over the map?

please stop posting that stupid clickbait video, i already explained what light did good and jaedong did bad the last time the video got posted........

in the end you need to explain what your definition of OP or imba is. for me, this is neither OP or imba.

i hope that 1 day, people will stop the balance whine..... welp, hope dies last....
sCuMBaG
Profile Joined August 2006
United Kingdom1144 Posts
May 16 2017 10:01 GMT
#32
On May 16 2017 05:10 Bakuryu wrote:
whats the point of biggest range if your units die to manlots and zerglings? whats the point of best defence if you cant attack because zerg uses swarm/lurker or protoss blocks ramp with stasis? whats the point if you have the strongest 200/200 ball when zerg uses their mobility to attack undefended bases and protoss uses recall all over the map?

please stop posting that stupid clickbait video, i already explained what light did good and jaedong did bad the last time the video got posted........

in the end you need to explain what your definition of OP or imba is. for me, this is neither OP or imba.

i hope that 1 day, people will stop the balance whine..... welp, hope dies last....



The balance bitching will only become worse, now that there are potentially lots of SC2 kids playing some BW.

But honestly, I'm too old for that shit
As long as I get to play a couple of BW games with my old mates, I don't care.
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
May 16 2017 11:27 GMT
#33
The game was considered to be balanced for almost 2 decades and now that the remaster has been announced, then MAGICALLY bw is supposedly not balanced and terran is super op.

Every single person I've seen saying that terran is op and bw is imbalanced are people who registered on TL post-2010.

If balance do happen, it's gonna kill the remaster and everyone is just going to go back to 1.16, and honestly, I wouldn't mind one bit.
B-royal
Profile Joined May 2015
Belgium1330 Posts
May 16 2017 11:38 GMT
#34
The game is completely fine, some maps on the other hand...
new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
May 16 2017 11:38 GMT
#35
On May 16 2017 20:38 B-royal wrote:
The game is completely fine, some maps on the other hand...


Anyone who has been watching bw for more than a few years should know this.
NasKe_
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil570 Posts
May 16 2017 12:23 GMT
#36
On May 16 2017 20:27 Essbee wrote:
The game was considered to be balanced for almost 2 decades and now that the remaster has been announced, then MAGICALLY bw is supposedly not balanced and terran is super op.

Every single person I've seen saying that terran is op and bw is imbalanced are people who registered on TL post-2010.

If balance do happen, it's gonna kill the remaster and everyone is just going to go back to 1.16, and honestly, I wouldn't mind one bit.


And Blizzard know this. The last thing they want is a big hype about Broodwar, and everyone playing 1.16 instead of buying the remaster.
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-16 14:31:07
May 16 2017 14:30 GMT
#37
Protoss are the worst race because Scouts are not a viable opener ever unlike Mutas in all 3 matchups and Wraiths in 2. Clearly this is the most important and only metric that matters.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
May 16 2017 16:43 GMT
#38
scouts best finisher tho
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
SBL_HOST
Profile Joined August 2016
18 Posts
May 16 2017 16:45 GMT
#39
Just fix dragoon plz blizzard.
Starcraft Broodwar Latino
LUCKY_NOOB
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Bulgaria1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-16 16:54:21
May 16 2017 16:51 GMT
#40
On May 16 2017 23:30 Crisium wrote:
Protoss are the worst race because Scouts are not a viable opener ever unlike Mutas in all 3 matchups and Wraiths in 2. Clearly this is the most important and only metric that matters.


Vs Zerg



Vs Terran

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/1647_Bisu_vs_Hwasin/vod
ko-fi.com/luckynoob
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RotterdaM Event
16:30
Rotti's PatchesSC Open
RotterdaM464
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 464
ByuN 232
TKL 75
IndyStarCraft 48
Trap 17
BRAT_OK 16
MindelVK 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 32707
Calm 5018
Shuttle 1645
Mini 868
EffOrt 608
Soulkey 416
BeSt 338
firebathero 147
Snow 141
Yoon 95
[ Show more ]
Liquid`Ret 78
Zeus 66
Dewaltoss 62
Hyun 42
ToSsGirL 41
Mong 36
Barracks 33
Aegong 30
soO 26
zelot 19
Free 17
Hm[arnc] 14
Noble 10
sorry 9
Shine 9
Sacsri 6
Dota 2
Gorgc5672
qojqva3399
syndereN370
BananaSlamJamma224
Counter-Strike
fl0m4000
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu142
Other Games
singsing1890
crisheroes702
Beastyqt632
FrodaN607
B2W.Neo366
mouzStarbuck233
Hui .212
ArmadaUGS107
KnowMe96
C9.Mang086
Trikslyr48
QueenE43
Chillindude14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2658
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 48
• mYiSmile138
• 3DClanTV 23
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 23
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2036
• WagamamaTV654
League of Legends
• Nemesis1546
• Jankos1377
• TFBlade864
Other Games
• Shiphtur234
Upcoming Events
The PiG Daily
4h 13m
BASILISK vs TBD
Serral vs Rogue
Korean StarCraft League
9h 13m
GSL
18h 13m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 18h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
GSL
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-27
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 6
Light Tournament 2026
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.