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There's a (minor?) inconsistency with in-game UI. For some reason I can't post on the Blizz. forums.
While selecting an SCV, hit <B>. In 1.16, right clicking somewhere else would move you out of the menu. In 1.18, this leaves the build menu open.
Not completely game-breaking, but its affected me quite a bit. For instance, I would hit <B><E>, right click somewhere else on the map (realizing I want to place the ebay somewhere else), and then instinctively hit <B><E> again. In 1.16, this would work just fine, in 1.18 I end up building more barracks.
Also, maybe its just me, but the building commands also seem much more sluggish than before - even more so than the 'general unresponsiveness' that others have reported.
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I think it is difficult to argue that hotkey rebinds won't affect gameplay. Hotkey rebinds makes certain executions of mechanical skill slightly easier, thus gameplay is affected. Even if the time saved with a 'P' hotkey changed to 'S' or 'E' is a fraction of a millisecond, this still affects gameplay. Vulture micro or macroing with hatcheries or w/e it may be, becoming easier even if ever so slightly, affects gameplay. The question is whether the change is negligible or not. I am of the opinion that hotkey rebinds will not significantly affect gameplay in an overwhelming number of scenarios. Not only do I believe that to be the case, but it should also be mentioned that hotkey rebinds will be available to everyone. This means that it will be a level playing field. Anybody can change their hotkeys to whatever feels most comfortable to them. I do not see people suddenly beating people of higher skill than them just because they switched their hotkeys. Seems to me that some of the better players on Teamliquid or ICCup are of the same opinion. I have no idea what Korean former progamers have to say on this issue, but seeing as I haven't seen anything on the matter, it seems like it is not an issue for them at all. And a slippery slope argument seems rather contrary to what we've seen so far to me in that even the more controversial features of the 1.18 and remastered changes (widescreen, even the bnet UI, etc.) have been dealt with as their own separate and sensitive issues on forums, hotly contested either way. And everybody agrees that MBS and/or bigger control groups, or other changes of a similar nature will never happen, so why mention them?
On to relevance:
I've been getting disconnected from the server at random times, been playing on US West. Sometimes this happens while searching for a game, sometimes during a game, giving the message "Connection with the server has been lost."
I also noticed this while testing some resource gathering rates:
During a replay: The in-game timer is sometimes off when compared to the replay timer. Happened to me once so far, but the difference was about 15-20 seconds. Maybe there is a reason for this I'm not seeing? I'd have to go and see if I can reproduce the replay-ingame timer desync.
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On April 22 2017 20:59 trutaCz wrote:MBS or bigger control groups would change the game drastically, custom hotkeys dont change nothing at all. Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 20:41 r.Evo wrote:On April 22 2017 19:30 trutaCz wrote:
I am curious, what problems u have with rebinds? U dont have to use them, are you afraid u will be pushed miles behind in terms of getting better if u are not gonna use custom hotkeys and someone is going to, really? This just reminds me of thinking "what mouse should i buy to play better"..... This is really the thing which helps out newcomers, beginners, old school players to come back. If you ask me personally here are a few points, I'm probably missing some important ones but that's my take on it: 1) "Gameplay would not be changed from the original StarCraft: Brood War." - That's how the remaster was advertised and that's what at least I expected. Hotkey layouts, at least in my book, are part of the gameplay. That means either Blizzard doesn't consider these things part of gameplay (which is a scary idea because that means lots of other things aren't part of it either) or we've been told false info from the start. 2) We can all agree that hotkeys in BW aren't ideal. The question is whether this is a bad thing or not. After all the Brood War people grew up on, the Brood War that nurtured the scene for almost 20 years did just fine with them. Discussions around which pro does which setup are integral to learning a new race and part of it is working around the fixed layout. It's part of the game and gives it more flavor than everyone pressing the same buttons on the same grid. 3) The classic slippery slope argument: In a vacuum rebindable hotkeys are a good thing from my perspective. Some people have physical issues where this helps them, others like the same binds across multiple games, these types of things are all good valid reasons for something like this. However simply because it's a just a small QoL change I think it's a scary precedent. Now that we have higher resolution zooming out a bit would just be appropriate for modern times, right? Hell, things like MBS or bigger control groups can be great ideas with the exact same logic. What about a colorblind mode that adds better contrasts for everyone? Once you add too much QoL you start attacking the mechanical foundation of the gameplay and it's no longer even remotely the same. Overall, to me, everything that goes on after the five second countdown is part of the gameplay. Just pushing up resolution doesn't affect this but for example invisible units getting a better visible color would. Analogue even the most basic things like hotkeys aren't something you can seperate from the gameplay and claim it doesn't matter at all. It does influence gameplay, no matter how you look at it. Here my hope is that it's an absolute exception and not a sign of a basic design principle that shows how Blizzard understands "Gameplay won't be changed from the original". Can you bring some real situations from the game, how the custom hotkeys gonna negatively affect on it?
Did you miss the part where I said I think they're a good thing in a vacuum? =P
1) Setups become more optimal. By definition there is workload removed from the player when learning the game.
2) By definition a setup that is faster will be more optimal than one that is slower. Hence, given enough time, a player playing on the original hotkeys won't be able to keep up with himself had he changed his to a more optimal setup.
Saying they change nothing at all is ludicrous, saying you don't think they change enough to matter in the big picture, I can get behind that - as long as they're not a sign of a general philosophy.
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they didnt say anything about the wrong zealot sounds in the german version yet... 
pls blizzard...
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On April 22 2017 21:05 SleepyZergling wrote:
There's a (minor?) inconsistency with in-game UI. For some reason I can't post on the Blizz. forums.
While selecting an SCV, hit <B>. In 1.16, right clicking somewhere else would move you out of the menu. In 1.18, this leaves the build menu open.
Not completely game-breaking, but its affected me quite a bit. For instance, I would hit <B><E>, right click somewhere else on the map (realizing I want to place the ebay somewhere else), and then instinctively hit <B><E> again. In 1.16, this would work just fine, in 1.18 I end up building more barracks.
Also, maybe its just me, but the building commands also seem much more sluggish than before - even more so than the 'general unresponsiveness' that others have reported.
I thought that was just me, was it not like that normally before 1.18?
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On April 22 2017 17:46 Cele wrote:meh. i was hoping for no rebinds.
Adding hotkey rebinds to the game doesn't bother me IF they do it the right way. I don't mind having alphabetical key rebinds, BW already has localized keybinds that gives players from other countries advantageous hotkey bindings (for example the hotkey for probe is S in the German version of BW).
That said im against adding control group and F key rebinds because that'll affect the core gameplay of BW. Those commands add a very high skillcap to the game, mastering and using those keys efficiently is no easy task.
F keys and control groups play a part in macro, army rallies, micro/army engagement etc. (basically has has a huge impact on a player's mechanics, its an added layer of skill which allows players to differentiate themselves from one another). Adding alphabetical key bindings slightly reduces the barrier of entry while still maintaining the integrity of the game, it won't have an impact on gameplay at high levels.
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People want a real life example of how custom hotkeys will change things?
Right now if you want to attempt to micro with 2 control groups of flying units like wraiths or mutalisks there are 2 barriers:
1. Relevant/necessary hotkeys are scattered across the keyboard.
A super common setup for zerg is to have the first 4 hotkeys (1-4) dedicated to army and the latter 6 (5-0) to hatcheries.
The hotkeys necessary for micro are A (nicely accessible), H (still very accessible), M (barely accessible), P (inaccessible).
For the hotkey A/H: It is possible to remain with-in the standard zerg setup. You assign 1 and 2 to your mutalisks and without much effort you can start practicing Attack/Hold position micro with 2 control groups.
For the hotkey M: It is possible with-in the standard zerg setup. You can assign 1 and 2 to your mutalisks but you'll need to use a special hand positioning to execute the micro. For example, you could use your thumb on the M-key so your hand remains somewhat in its original orientation. You could also use quite a stretched position with your index finger on the M-key but I believe this is much more prone to errors.
For the hotkey P: It is impossible with-in the standard zerg setup. You will have to dedicate 2 hotkeys that are normally reserved for hatcheries towards mutalisks. This however is not the aspect that makes it virtually impossible or even discommended to attempt in a real game. It is the fact that you have to physically move your hand to the right side of the keyboard, which will slow you down considerably every time you attempt to go back to macro. The same can be said about the reverse situation, whenever you return from macroing to your mutalisk micro the process will not only be slow but it can easily result in a mistake.
Some actual in game examples where this could be useful are:
A. Terran hides a turret underneath a barracks. This requires patrol micro to be able to take it down.
B. When hovering over a mineral line, and turrets or only a couple of marines are shooting at you and are out of range, you can use patrol micro to direct shots at the SCVs. Using Hold position or Stop micro does not work in this case as the mutas will fly towards the turret/marine that's attacking it.
C. In a mutalisk vs scourge battle, being able to use patrol micro with 2 groups can severely nullify scourge.
D. Being able to use the Move key to navigate inside someone's base prevents the risk of accidentally right clicking a unit and slowing down.
E. Move micro with 2 groups will allow mutalisks to snipe buildings more smoothly/very effectively with less risk for accidental miss-clicks.
2. Lost keyboard input when holding down the mouse.
Point 2 is a very important gatekeeper of this type of micro. It necessitates perfect execution, which seems very logical considering the amount of power microing 2 groups of mutalisks/wraiths can have.
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On April 22 2017 22:28 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 21:05 SleepyZergling wrote:
There's a (minor?) inconsistency with in-game UI. For some reason I can't post on the Blizz. forums.
While selecting an SCV, hit <B>. In 1.16, right clicking somewhere else would move you out of the menu. In 1.18, this leaves the build menu open.
Not completely game-breaking, but its affected me quite a bit. For instance, I would hit <B><E>, right click somewhere else on the map (realizing I want to place the ebay somewhere else), and then instinctively hit <B><E> again. In 1.16, this would work just fine, in 1.18 I end up building more barracks.
Also, maybe its just me, but the building commands also seem much more sluggish than before - even more so than the 'general unresponsiveness' that others have reported. I thought that was just me, was it not like that normally before 1.18?
Sorry, i think I just messed up. The behavior was like that before in 1.16 (it cancels if you already selected the building and are choosing where to place it, but does not exit the menu if you have not selected anything).
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So it changes a bit, but negatively or positvely? I think is a positive change, it will be less bit hard for some things, just a bit because this game is super hard anyway, and there is plenty of areas to get better in.
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On April 22 2017 23:10 TT1 wrote:Adding hotkey rebinds to the game doesn't bother me IF they do it the right way. I don't mind having alphabetical key rebinds, BW already has localized keybinds that gives player's from other countries advantageous hotkey bindings (for example the hotkey for probe is S in the German version of BW). That said im against adding control group and F key rebinds because that'll affect the core gameplay of BW. Those commands add a very high skillcap to the game, mastering and using those keys efficiently is no easy task. F keys and control groups play a part in macro, army rallies, micro/army engagement etc. (basically has has a huge impact on a player's mechanics, its an added layer of skill which allows players to differentiate themselves from one another). Adding alphabetical key bindings slightly reduces the barrier of entry while still maintaining the integrity of the game, it won't have an impact on gameplay at high levels.
I think that's overall the most reasonable approach.
Especially because of the post below yours I'd argue Patrol/Hold/Move/Attack should also be non-modifiable. If those three categories are fixed I have no concerns about rebinds at all.
I'd be surprised if those kind of distinctions make it into the final implementation though.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 22 2017 23:10 TT1 wrote:Adding hotkey rebinds to the game doesn't bother me IF they do it the right way. I don't mind having alphabetical key rebinds, BW already has localized keybinds that gives player's from other countries advantageous hotkey bindings (for example the hotkey for probe is S in the German version of BW). That said im against adding control group and F key rebinds because that'll affect the core gameplay of BW. Those commands add a very high skillcap to the game, mastering and using those keys efficiently is no easy task. F keys and control groups play a part in macro, army rallies, micro/army engagement etc. (basically has has a huge impact on a player's mechanics, its an added layer of skill which allows players to differentiate themselves from one another). Adding alphabetical key bindings slightly reduces the barrier of entry while still maintaining the integrity of the game, it won't have an impact on gameplay at high levels.
I kind of agree with you, I think some will argue that it's an either or affair but I think granularity is fine.
Could also see not allowing rebinding of patrol because of patrol micro.
F1 should be disableable or rebindable tho ;p
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I think with rebindable hotkeys controlling Terran mech armies will become a lot easier. It puts mines, siege, patrol, irradiate etc. within reach of the left hand. It is hard to argue against though since different languages have different keyboard layouts.
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On April 23 2017 00:37 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 23:10 TT1 wrote:On April 22 2017 17:46 Cele wrote:meh. i was hoping for no rebinds. Adding hotkey rebinds to the game doesn't bother me IF they do it the right way. I don't mind having alphabetical key rebinds, BW already has localized keybinds that gives player's from other countries advantageous hotkey bindings (for example the hotkey for probe is S in the German version of BW). That said im against adding control group and F key rebinds because that'll affect the core gameplay of BW. Those commands add a very high skillcap to the game, mastering and using those keys efficiently is no easy task. F keys and control groups play a part in macro, army rallies, micro/army engagement etc. (basically has has a huge impact on a player's mechanics, its an added layer of skill which allows players to differentiate themselves from one another). Adding alphabetical key bindings slightly reduces the barrier of entry while still maintaining the integrity of the game, it won't have an impact on gameplay at high levels. I kind of agree with you, I think some will argue that it's an either or affair but I think granularity is fine. Could also see not allowing rebinding of patrol because of patrol micro. F1 should be disableable or rebindable tho ;p
they should add f1 as another f key but i dunno how hard it would be to do that coding-wise
dont mind not being able to rebind stuff like patrol and hold position, thats fair
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On April 23 2017 00:37 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 23:10 TT1 wrote:On April 22 2017 17:46 Cele wrote:meh. i was hoping for no rebinds. Adding hotkey rebinds to the game doesn't bother me IF they do it the right way. I don't mind having alphabetical key rebinds, BW already has localized keybinds that gives player's from other countries advantageous hotkey bindings (for example the hotkey for probe is S in the German version of BW). That said im against adding control group and F key rebinds because that'll affect the core gameplay of BW. Those commands add a very high skillcap to the game, mastering and using those keys efficiently is no easy task. F keys and control groups play a part in macro, army rallies, micro/army engagement etc. (basically has has a huge impact on a player's mechanics, its an added layer of skill which allows players to differentiate themselves from one another). Adding alphabetical key bindings slightly reduces the barrier of entry while still maintaining the integrity of the game, it won't have an impact on gameplay at high levels. I kind of agree with you, I think some will argue that it's an either or affair but I think granularity is fine. Could also see not allowing rebinding of patrol because of patrol micro. F1 should be disableable or rebindable tho ;p
Patrol is R in the Spanish localization. I think that precedent has already been broken.
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On April 23 2017 01:03 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2017 00:37 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On April 22 2017 23:10 TT1 wrote:On April 22 2017 17:46 Cele wrote:meh. i was hoping for no rebinds. Adding hotkey rebinds to the game doesn't bother me IF they do it the right way. I don't mind having alphabetical key rebinds, BW already has localized keybinds that gives player's from other countries advantageous hotkey bindings (for example the hotkey for probe is S in the German version of BW). That said im against adding control group and F key rebinds because that'll affect the core gameplay of BW. Those commands add a very high skillcap to the game, mastering and using those keys efficiently is no easy task. F keys and control groups play a part in macro, army rallies, micro/army engagement etc. (basically has has a huge impact on a player's mechanics, its an added layer of skill which allows players to differentiate themselves from one another). Adding alphabetical key bindings slightly reduces the barrier of entry while still maintaining the integrity of the game, it won't have an impact on gameplay at high levels. I kind of agree with you, I think some will argue that it's an either or affair but I think granularity is fine. Could also see not allowing rebinding of patrol because of patrol micro. F1 should be disableable or rebindable tho ;p Patrol is R in the Spanish localization. I think that precedent has already been broken.
sneaky bastards
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Norway28715 Posts
saying you can't modify patrol because that key is too far to the right and patrol micro has to be as difficult as it currently is, is too arbitrary.
Hotkey rebinding is a big improvement. And I think exactly 0 players who can't cut it with the current hotkey setup are going to become powerhouses because they're able to rebind them. It's just a way of making it a bit easier to start playing the game from scratch nowadays and a way of not instantly turning off part of a generation of younger gamers without influencing the balance or skill cap or skill differentiation in any notable way. Myself I was on the fence until I got to try rebinding, and then noticing that I actually enjoyed playing more with probe and pylon at e instead of p and marine on a instead of m made it a real no-brainer.
I've spent like 19 years playing with the old hotkey setup, if rebinding gives me increased enjoyment after 3 games of playing with the new setup, then wtf. Obviously permit that. I have zero illusions of this suddenly making me catch up to players that are currently better than me anyway.
Hotkey groupings is a different beast.
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On April 23 2017 01:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
saying you can't modify patrol because that key is too far to the right and patrol micro has to be as difficult as it currently is, is too arbitrary.
Hotkey rebinding is a big improvement. And I think exactly 0 players who can't cut it with the current hotkey setup are going to become powerhouses because they're able to rebind them. It's just a way of making it a bit easier to start playing the game from scratch nowadays and a way of not instantly turning off part of a generation of younger gamers without influencing the balance or skill cap or skill differentiation in any notable way. Myself I was on the fence until I got to try rebinding, and then noticing that I actually enjoyed playing more with probe and pylon at e instead of p and marine on a instead of m made it a real no-brainer.
I've spent like 19 years playing with the old hotkey setup, if rebinding gives me increased enjoyment after 3 games of playing with the new setup, then wtf. Obviously permit that. I have zero illusions of this suddenly making me catch up to players that are currently better than me anyway.
Hotkey groupings is a different beast. 100% this. Had this game since i was 5, when the game came out. Hotkey rebinding is great.
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France1920 Posts
Please fix the game list constantly moving so that I always click on the wrong game TT
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Making hotkeys rebindable will greatly increase the chances of new players sticking around, and of people who enjoy both SC2 and Brood War to keep playing both.
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On April 23 2017 03:57 Mangemongen wrote:
Making hotkeys rebindable will greatly increase the chances of new players sticking around, and of people who enjoy both SC2 and Brood War to keep playing both.
Who cares about new players. All they do is getting roflstomped anyways, keybinds or not. Survival of the fittest
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EPT
