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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
On August 29 2009 18:40 7mk wrote: whoooooah, this game is jawdropping and in my case I mean that literally !! kinda like this? =P + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/75/asdffkj8.png) or this =P ![[image loading]](http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4430/82skvs6pvst200908101141.jpg) but yeah, it was an unbelievable match, i was on the edge of my seat from beginning to end | ||
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zazen
Brazil695 Posts
Every Starcraft fan needs to watch this game. Both players bringing in their A-game, the display of micro is just incredible. After the game, Bisu and Flash walked away from their booths absolutely sure that everybody was entertained. I guess not everything is lost if JD really quits... | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
First + Show Spoiler [VOD] + Actually, I'd recommend watching the whole series--it's ZvZ, so doesn't take that long. All the games are more about strategy than about micro (neither player has consistently good micro--if you've only ever watched JvZs, then you've been spoiled). But if you only want to watch one game, or don't like the match-up, watch this one: an extremely unconventional ZvZ, featuring some great strategic play. Even if you normally dislike ZvZs, it's worth watching this one for the novelty factor alone. | ||
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marcoso
Brazil818 Posts
 Calm vs Kwanro+ Show Spoiler [why you should watch] + 1) smart smart smart play until the end (1st game); 2)  ToSsGirL is in the crowd; 3) for the sake of all who disrespected the finals and its players; 4) it's a lot more entertaining than the OSL finals | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
On August 31 2009 06:05 qrs wrote: + Show Spoiler [game #] + First + Show Spoiler [VOD] + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inyvIb0Af98 Actually, I'd recommend watching the whole series--it's ZvZ, so doesn't take that long. All the games are more about strategy than about micro (neither player has consistently good micro--if you've only ever watched JvZs, then you've been spoiled). But if you only want to watch one game, or don't like the match-up, watch this one: an extremely unconventional ZvZ, featuring some great strategic play. Even if you normally dislike ZvZs, it's worth watching this one for the novelty factor alone. Calm has very good micro, he's outmicrod JD and Effort on a number of occasions recently, but yeah his forte is his strategy for sure (he does things that other zerg do not and it's pretty awesome) | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
Anyway, when did Calm straight-up outmicro either Effort or JD, recently, without gaining some sort of advantage first (9-pool vs. 12-hatch, +1-attack vs. unupgraded, etc.)? | ||
Harem
United States11390 Posts
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
Seemed like Luxury choked after winning that muta battle. | ||
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
On August 31 2009 20:49 qrs wrote: ^yeah, thought about recommending that one, too. Game was not bad, and it was very tense. + Show Spoiler [spoiler] + Seemed like Luxury choked after winning that muta battle. + Show Spoiler + He ended up with 2 mutas with very little health left - it's not like he was that far ahead | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On August 30 2009 01:15 blahman3344 wrote: kinda like this? =P + Show Spoiler + or this =P but yeah, it was an unbelievable match, i was on the edge of my seat from beginning to end I must honestly have looked just like bisu in the first pic On September 01 2009 06:46 Crunchums wrote: + Show Spoiler + He ended up with 2 mutas with very little health left - it's not like he was that far ahead Yeah today I played a ZvZ in which I was in a very very similar situation + Show Spoiler + and I also got fucked because my mutas got owned by scourge cause I just didnt have enough mutas to snipe them... but I also couldn't just sit at home with my mutas because If I had done that he would have just gotten bigger because of the extra gas, same with luxury here | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9104 Posts
On August 31 2009 06:05 qrs wrote: + Show Spoiler [game #] + First + Show Spoiler [VOD] + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inyvIb0Af98 Actually, I'd recommend watching the whole series--it's ZvZ, so doesn't take that long. All the games are more about strategy than about micro (neither player has consistently good micro--if you've only ever watched JvZs, then you've been spoiled). But if you only want to watch one game, or don't like the match-up, watch this one: an extremely unconventional ZvZ, featuring some great strategic play. Even if you normally dislike ZvZs, it's worth watching this one for the novelty factor alone. + Show Spoiler + I feel like if Kwanro had just hit the morphing sunken instead of trying to go for drones he could've ended it. He had a 5 pool going against what I think was a 12 hatch. Going for the workers is almost always right but I really feel like he should've been able to end it right there. | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
On August 31 2009 19:15 qrs wrote: Calm has good micro for sure, sometimes, but not always; that's why I said "consistently good". But yeah, Calm's micro overall is better than Kwanro's. Anyway, when did Calm straight-up outmicro either Effort or JD, recently, without gaining some sort of advantage first (9-pool vs. 12-hatch, +1-attack vs. unupgraded, etc.)? Calm had BO disadvantage in 2/3 games he won vs JD and was even in the other, and had to do some nice outmicro vs JD in the air to win the game, but yeah Calm typically will engage in situations where he has some sort of advantage if at all possible, so I guess your point is valid  | ||
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
from the OnGameNet Pre-Match Team Evaluations that happened just now | ||
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Blind
United States2528 Posts
On September 04 2009 17:32 Crunchums wrote: leta vs stork @ outsider from the OnGameNet Pre-Match Team Evaluations that happened just now VOD for this game: | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On September 04 2009 15:02 tedster wrote: Calm had BO disadvantage in 2/3 games he won vs JD and was even in the other, and had to do some nice outmicro vs JD in the air to win the game, but yeah Calm typically will engage in situations where he has some sort of advantage if at all possible, so I guess your point is valid BO disadvantage is an outdated notion--Calm is showing this even more than Jaedong, these days. Except in extreme cases, different BOs have different pros and cons, that's all. In the games Calm won against Jaedong, he had: 1) 1 base 2-hatch against 2 base 2-hatch. Mutas and more lings against no mutas and fewer lings. 2) Upgraded +1 attack mutas against unupgraded mutas. 3) More lings than Jaedong--with a couple of them hidden, so he was able to take Jaedong by surprise at the start of the attack. Watch the games again closely or just read Hot Bid's summaries I'm not trying to take anything away from Calm--on the contrary, his dominance relying on strategy over micro is one of the more impressive things we've seen lately. But it's just not true to say that he beat Jaedong on his micro. There isn't a Zerg alive who can straight-up outmicro Jaedong except maybe Effort on a good day, if Jaedong is having a bad one. | ||
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
On September 04 2009 22:12 qrs wrote: BO disadvantage is an outdated notion--Calm is showing this even more than Jaedong, these days. Except in extreme cases, different BOs have different pros and cons, that's all. In the games Calm won against Jaedong, he had: 1) 1 base 2-hatch against 2 base 2-hatch. Mutas and more lings against no mutas and fewer lings. 2) Upgraded +1 attack mutas against unupgraded mutas. 3) More lings than Jaedong--with a couple of them hidden, so he was able to take Jaedong by surprise at the start of the attack. Watch the games again closely or just read Hot Bid's summaries I'm not trying to take anything away from Calm--on the contrary, his dominance relying on strategy over micro is one of the more impressive things we've seen lately. But it's just not true to say that he beat Jaedong on his micro. There isn't a Zerg alive who can straight-up outmicro Jaedong except maybe Effort on a good day, if Jaedong is having a bad one. ZvZ still has build order disadvantages it's just that Jaedong has showed that having one is not the end of the world. But things like 9pool vs overpool can still be game deciding if the overpool player covers all his bases and doesn't fuck anything up (I'm thinking Jaedong vs Luxury from WCG). I'm not sure what you qualify as an "extreme" example but 12hatch vs 9pool speed on, say, Outsider is another example - unless it's me vs Jaedong the 12hatch player is not very likely to win. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On September 05 2009 01:43 Crunchums wrote: ZvZ still has build order disadvantages it's just that Jaedong has showed that having one is not the end of the world. But things like 9pool vs overpool can still be game deciding if the overpool player covers all his bases and doesn't fuck anything up (I'm thinking Jaedong vs Luxury from WCG). I'm not sure what you qualify as an "extreme" example but 12hatch vs 9pool speed on, say, Outsider is another example - unless it's me vs Jaedong the 12hatch player is not very likely to win. 12 hatch vs. 9 pool speed on a map like Outsider is pretty much what I meant by the extreme case: the greediest viable build, vs. the most aggressive viable build on a map with a short rush distance. 9-pool vs. overpool though--I'm not so sure: of course the second player has the economic edge, but the 9-pool player will tend to have the faster gas, I believe. In a match-up where timing windows a few seconds wide can decide a game, I don't think that that can be dismissed. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
so siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick xD + Show Spoiler + I just regained a bunch more respect for Leta. | ||
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
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Shadeye
Australia75 Posts
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EPT
