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halomonian
Brazil255 Posts
On January 16 2017 09:09 duke91 wrote: Jaedong vs Flash is what Jangbi vs Fantasy could have been I wonder what's became of Fantasea and Jangbi. Military? I want so hard for them to come back | ||
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Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
Flash went 14 CC 15 times and Jaedong 3 Hatch no Pool 13 times. Flash went Rax first 7 times and Jaedong 4-9 Pool 8 times. If you count Overpool to aggressive openings it makes 10 times. What I noticed when going through the games was that until Hana Daetoo MSL happened with the infamous 3 14 CCs in a row, Jaedong already pulled the 3 Hatch no Pool opening 8 times while Flash opened with 14 CC only 5 times. That could have played a part in his gamble during the MSL finals. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On January 17 2017 07:12 Freezard wrote: I think the whole Flash-best-progamer-in-all-of-esports is exaggerated, yes he was the greatest player of all time in BW if we're talking pure skills but that's not really surprising since that's the same case in every sport - sports evolve and players get better both physically and tactically, it's pretty natural for currently active players to be the best. However, some people have to pave way for the evolution of sports and that is for me an underrated feat, it takes someone special to do that as well, usually in esports it's about pushing out strategies that no one else had thought about which becomes new metas. You have to compare all these things relatively to when the player played, as well as what competition they had, it's pretty complicated really. I understand the distinction you're making between being the best (a label that requires you to be an active member of the most current generation of players and thus excludes Boxer, Nada, July, etc.) and being the greatest (a label that is more about dominance relative to peers and about popularizing/developing the game, and that sticks with you even after you stop being the best). I also understand what you're saying about how greatest is very subjective and even less measurable than best. If anyone wants to argue for Boxer or Nada as greatest ever, I can respect that, but after watching Flash "win the StarCraft multiplayer campaign" in 2010 and rewrite every Terran matchup, I personally can't pick anyone else as greatest of BW. (Edit: What I meant to convey here is that in addition to being the best for a long time, Flash has been no slouch in "paving the way for the evolution" of BW.) As for "greatest of all eSports," I don't think that's a sensible label, but given that BW is the greatest eSport, I suppose Flash takes it anyway  | ||
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MicMacAngl
Germany11 Posts
On January 16 2017 09:09 duke91 wrote: Jaedong vs Flash is what Jangbi vs Fantasy could have been Those 2 are with no doubt ledgends in this game, too and there was a great rivalary at the "end" of KESPA SCBW. However (at least the last OSL) that beeing at a time when almost all practiced sc2. So it's very hard to say if there would have been a rivalary if sc2 didn't exit, not meaning that Fantasy or JangBi wouldn't have great success anyways. But other top tier players would probably have done a little bit better (those noone will be ever able to prove that). So just my opinion. Hope those 2 come back to BW though, that would be awesome. Want to see a tourney with more greats of that era: Fantasy, Bisu, Stork, Jangbi, Flash, Jaedong, Kal, Soo, Sea, Paralyze, Stats, Zero, Soulkey, Effort, Baby, Bogus (yeah ok, TY and Innovation), Free, Best, Hiya, Movie, Last, Sun (the 7th Dragon "Rain"), Stardust, SSak, ForGG , skyHigh, s2, ........ Can this dream come true? Go Jaedong! | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On January 17 2017 05:13 Rucho wrote: You should have included one of the best BW games of all time, WCG Flash vs Jaedong, cast by Apollo and some dude. Back and forth game, all sorts of tech switches, harass, etc. It's beautiful. I remember when I started watching Starcraft 2 and heard Apollo casting. I was like "Isn't this that guy that cast WCG that one time who kept calling mutalisks 'mutes' and kept repeating the phrase 'detrimental damage'?" Good times. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On January 17 2017 13:15 Cryoc wrote: I made the effort and watched the openings of all 49 Flash vs Jaedong games and both went a pretty similar amount of times non-standard vs each other. Flash went 14 CC 15 times and Jaedong 3 Hatch no Pool 13 times. Flash went Rax first 7 times and Jaedong 4-9 Pool 8 times. If you count Overpool to aggressive openings it makes 10 times. What I noticed when going through the games was that until Hana Daetoo MSL happened with the infamous 3 14 CCs in a row, Jaedong already pulled the 3 Hatch no Pool opening 8 times while Flash opened with 14 CC only 5 times. That could have played a part in his gamble during the MSL finals. Please tell me you know who won who in all the 3 hatch no pool, rax first and pool first games. | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
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shall_burn
252 Posts
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linkhimura
Argentina231 Posts
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
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Lgnarrow
104 Posts
On January 17 2017 19:46 linkhimura wrote: Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have seen now that various sc2 pros (like these two) that went back to brood war. Why is that? Better prizes or...? I guess the money is still bigger in sc2. IMO brood war is the game they love, and thats why they quit sc2. | ||
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Michael_bg
Bulgaria2 Posts
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torm3ntin
Brazil2534 Posts
History was made that day! | ||
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Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
On January 17 2017 18:17 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Please tell me you know who won who in all the 3 hatch no pool, rax first and pool first games. Jaedong won 4 out of 13 games with 3 Hatch no Pool, 9 out of 11 of all Pool first games and from all games where Flash opened with 1 Rax CC, Jaedong won 13 out of 24. Mind you this game data overlaps. Just looking at the results from the 1 Rax CC vs 3 Hatch no Pool games, they are tied at 3-3. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Miragee
8656 Posts
On January 18 2017 02:28 Cryoc wrote: Jaedong won 4 out of 13 games with 3 Hatch no Pool, 9 out of 11 of all Pool first games and from all games where Flash opened with 1 Rax CC, Jaedong won 13 out of 24. Mind you this game data overlaps. Just looking at the results from the 1 Rax CC vs 3 Hatch no Pool games, they are tied at 3-3. Very interesting, thank you! | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
On January 16 2017 09:09 duke91 wrote: Jaedong vs Flash is what Jangbi vs Fantasy could have been It's pretty unfortunate that BW had it's downfall right when FanTaSy was looking to be the next greatest Terran. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On January 18 2017 02:28 Cryoc wrote: Jaedong won 4 out of 13 games with 3 Hatch no Pool, 9 out of 11 of all Pool first games and from all games where Flash opened with 1 Rax CC, Jaedong won 13 out of 24. Mind you this game data overlaps. Just looking at the results from the 1 Rax CC vs 3 Hatch no Pool games, they are tied at 3-3. thanks for sharing those, surprising that 3 hatch before pool worked so not well for Jaedong back then. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
On January 18 2017 04:07 LRM)TechnicS wrote: thanks for sharing those, surprising that 3 hatch before pool worked so not well for Jaedong back then. Might have to do with the fact that in the remaining 7 games he opened 3 Hatch before Pool, Flash went 14 CC so there was no build order advantage for him. | ||
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zeratul4u
4 Posts
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