except that without a name change that map will never be played by a blizzard sponsored, tastosis casted tournament which already has a desert overwatch map with big overwatch symbol (also best tileset for that symbol), while the tournament is interrupted by overwatch commercials......

Peeano

Netherlands5042 Posts

July 17 2016 03:49 GMT

#62

Wall ins for Overwatch:
T1;
+ Show Spoiler +

T5;
+ Show Spoiler +

T7;
+ Show Spoiler +

T11;
+ Show Spoiler +

P1;
+ Show Spoiler +

P5;
+ Show Spoiler +

Note:
While this can be done with 2 zealots, it is practically impossible to block lings with 2 zealots; adding a probe or a 3rd zealot is advised!

P7;
+ Show Spoiler +

P11;
+ Show Spoiler +

Note:
While this can be done with 2 zealots, it is practically impossible to block lings with 2 zealots; adding a probe or a 3rd zealot is advised!

Obviously there are more ways to wall in, but I think these are the only practical ones (and most optimal).
This means if there isn't a ling tight option shown for a certain position, it means there is no practical option available.
(However this does not mean you cannot create something ling tight.)

In my opinion P11 is your least favourite spawning point vs. Zerg

Full Album

Peeano

Netherlands5042 Posts

July 17 2016 03:53 GMT

#63

Sorry for the delay, casters.

On July 14 2016 17:43 Freakling wrote:
@Peeano: The new map versions are actually not protected, you could save a lot of time by using SCMDraft to test walls (using the debug/enable debug+show unit collision sizes options).

Thanks, I'll keep it in mind if I end up creating another album in the future.

idegelchik

Russian Federation382 Posts

July 19 2016 16:54 GMT

#64

green map antiprotoss map, t and z can off natural very easy(today hero with 2 lurks off best' natural).

BisuDagger

Bisutopia19246 Posts

July 19 2016 17:00 GMT

#65

So Best went for a pylon hugging the wall at the natural for the P7 spawn. This let him build a gateway next to his mineral line to hold. Hero exposed the issue of zerglings taking down the nuetral temple.

classicyellow83

United States2393 Posts

July 19 2016 17:03 GMT

#66

Overwatch is being patched and Taebaek should be replaced. It's not something new to replace a map during season due to insane imbalance.

Peeano

Netherlands5042 Posts

July 19 2016 17:18 GMT

#67

On July 20 2016 02:00 BisuDagger wrote:
So Best went for a pylon hugging the wall at the natural for the P7 spawn. This let him build a gateway next to his mineral line to hold. Hero exposed the issue of zerglings taking down the nuetral temple.

Best's wall in wasn't ling tight on the right side of the forge. However one interesting thing to point out is that his pylon placement allows for a cannon that can range the mineral stack (granted there is high ground vision)

Peeano

Netherlands5042 Posts

July 19 2016 18:58 GMT

#68

With the idea of ranging the stacked minerals on the high ground I think the setup below would be slightly better than what Best did:
+ Show Spoiler +

Personally I'd really like the red rectangle to be made buildable, but the map still seems bad...
As long as only mirror match ups - namely PvP - are played on it, it should be a fun map.

Freakling

Germany1529 Posts

July 19 2016 19:06 GMT

#69

On July 20 2016 02:03 classicyellow83 wrote:
Overwatch is being patched and Taebaek should be replaced. It's not something new to replace a map during season due to insane imbalance.

Yeah, but it still leaves one wondering why they keep picking up maps which are in dire need of extensive patching and/or have a ton of very predictable, cheesy imbalances in the first place.

classicyellow83

United States2393 Posts

July 19 2016 21:38 GMT

#70

On July 20 2016 04:06 Freakling wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah, but it still leaves one wondering why they keep picking up maps which are in dire need of extensive patching and/or have a ton of very predictable, cheesy imbalances in the first place.

Because they are letting people with no understanding of the game make maps and not listening to the actual players' inputs.

GTR

51468 Posts

July 19 2016 23:06 GMT

#71

and you're saying that ragnarok[valkyrie], a guy who's made maps professionally since 2002 has no understanding of the game?
i'm more than certain the reason why the maps have bugs in them is because these are the first maps he's probably made since the kespa era and that he hasn't had much time considering he's probably got a job/family and what not.

Peeano

Netherlands5042 Posts

July 19 2016 23:39 GMT

#72

Concerning BeSt vs hero and how we're all crying how bad this Taebaek Mountains is, because it is.
+ Show Spoiler [(ASL Ro16 day 2)] +

BeSt had a great early game with 3 drone kills in addition to making hero expand to the right top first rather than his natural.
That created a significant lead that gave BeSt a good chance to win. However he failed to do so. His main fail, (other than micro fails which I'm not looking to discuss here), was that he suffered severe economical damage from lurkers on his natural high ground.

Let me show you where BeSt could have improved his build using his own idea of how to play FFE on this map:
P7;
+ Show Spoiler +

BeSt's wall at the right side of the forge wasn't ling tight, but hero didn't try to abuse it. The option below would be better.

[image loading]

Far right cannon can range an enemy worker trying to mine the stacked mineral field on the high ground granted you provide high ground vision. Which I believe was the idea behind BeSt's wall in.

[image loading]

BeSt's pylon, as well as cybernatic core placement, only allowed 1 cannon which really fucked him over. You need a minimum of 3 cannons to make sure Lurkers can't camp your mineral line. Hero placed his Lukers just outside cannon range. BeSt's usage of corsairs for vision was good, but in BeSt's situation I'd suggest keeping vision of that high ground once Lurkers are out at all times.

[image loading]

Cannons are placed so they are out of reach of range hydra, yet cover all high ground behind the minerals and don't mess up your mining.

P11;
+ Show Spoiler +

Top right cannon can range an enemy worker trying to mine the stacked mineral field on the high ground granted you provide high ground vision.

[image loading]

Same as above, but a Dragoon can pass without destroying your stuff.
Note:
Gap below the forge can be blocked with just 1 zealot, but it's tricky.

[image loading]

Cannons are placed so they are out of reach of range hydra, yet cover all high ground behind the minerals and don't mess up your mining.

Full album

prech

United States2948 Posts

July 19 2016 23:44 GMT

#73

^^Good stuff, thanks, Peeano. Also for the wall-ins

Freakling

Germany1529 Posts

July 20 2016 00:04 GMT

#74

@Peeano: With that amount of cannon, he should have probably just cannon rushed!

On July 20 2016 08:06 GTR wrote:
and you're saying that ragnarok[valkyrie], a guy who's made maps professionally since 2002 has no understanding of the game?
i'm more than certain the reason why the maps have bugs in them is because these are the first maps he's probably made since the kespa era and that he hasn't had much time considering he's probably got a job/family and what not.

Meaningless drivel, driven by logical fallacies. It's not even consistent in itself. First you make a purely rhetoric argument for his alleged professionalism, just to then explain at length how this guy cannot be considered a professional at all.
(and don't even try to make the argument that he might have been paid to make these maps. In that case I am just assuming they got exactly what they paid for while he probably got minimum wage...)

Peeano

Netherlands5042 Posts

July 20 2016 00:06 GMT

#75

On July 20 2016 09:04 Freakling wrote:
@Peeano: With that amount of cannon, he should have probably just cannon rushed!

You know I only did that to show all cannons that can be powered by the initial pylon. Come on...

Freakling

Germany1529 Posts

July 20 2016 00:36 GMT

#76

The amount of extra cannons Protoss need just to cover everything is still a problem all of its own. And we haven't even seen a Hydra bust yet.

outscar

2832 Posts

July 20 2016 00:59 GMT

#77

At least Overwatch is better map (or was that matchup and players we saw were great?). Open, macro, multiple choices and standart. But this map was asking to be punished from very start, just look how weird it is lol.

BisuDagger

Bisutopia19246 Posts

July 20 2016 01:23 GMT

#78

On July 20 2016 09:36 Freakling wrote:
The amount of extra cannons Protoss need just to cover everything is still a problem all of its own. And we haven't even seen a Hydra bust yet.

That's the problem I see. Protoss has to waste so much time covering their ass. I think 2base turtle into sair/shuttle/reaver or dt is the best option. Fast shuttle reaver may pay off really nicely actually.

Freakling

Germany1529 Posts

July 20 2016 08:47 GMT

#79

On July 20 2016 09:59 outscar wrote:
At least Overwatch is better map (or was that matchup and players we saw were great?). Open, macro, multiple choices and standart. But this map was asking to be punished from very start, just look how weird it is lol.

Standard is the buzzword here. Grand imbalances were never to be expected to begin with (and besides, it is still to early to really judge balance). With the most map-breaking bugs and "features" fixed (the random cover-providing tiles on the north ridge and the weird haphazard tank angles on the mineral onlies) it is now actually a playable, if boring and bland-looking, map.

classicyellow83

United States2393 Posts

July 20 2016 18:36 GMT

#80

Ok guys. Update on what ASL is going to do about the new maps.

OverWatch - Will fix the mineral mining problem at 1 o'clock and 5 o'clock.

TaeBaek Mountain - This map will be used till the end of round 16. Will try to balance the map before round 8. But, if the map is still not balanced after testing, will be removed from the map pool and will use another map.

Source