• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:24
CEST 08:24
KST 15:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL61Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event19Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Korean Starcraft League Week 77 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL ASL20 Preliminary Maps SC uni coach streams logging into betting site BGH Mineral Boosts Tutorial Video
Tourneys
[BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 527 users

[ASL] New maps: Taebaek Mountains and Overwatch - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
115 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-12 15:27:03
July 12 2016 15:05 GMT
#21
On July 12 2016 21:29 classicyellow83 wrote:
So many players have problems with the new maps. They want them gone. >.<

How surprising (that's sarcasm!).
Seriously, these are still badly made and imbalanced.
They did actually hardly fix any of the bugs I pointed out (although they at least did some of the obvious changes, but it's really too little)... At least the random cover tiles on Overwatch are gone, as a by-effect of making the high ground ring buildable. However, that and the extra ramp making the 3rd gas expansion much easier accessible will probably make this another Terran-favoured map – not what the meta need right now.


On July 12 2016 23:13 Peeano wrote:
I've done little testing, but I think I found an error:
After you kill 1 temple of the temple stack, the temple stack remains impassable terrain, but it does become buildable terrain.
[image loading]
[image loading]

That's normal, it's just how stacked buildings work. You can do the same on Heartbreak Ridge (for example) Good practice would be to make terrain under stacked building blocks unbuildable, just in case. However, these map makers seem to understand painfully little about the underlying game mechanics of things, so they haven't got any good practices to avoid weirdness like this.


I've also found something that surprised me a lot:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

Neither a probe, marine, firebat, medic, nor ghost could pass there, but a zealot could. Wtf?
If that is intentional it's quite ingenious. (No, I didn't test with lings, yet)

(My testing was done offline: singleplayer>scexp>custom)
If Zealots fit through, lings do as well.
The simple explanation is the difference in collision box height:
Zergling: 16 px
Zealot: 19 px
Marine, Medic: 20 px
Ghost, Firebat: 22 px
Worker: 23 px
A Zealot barely fits throught the gap here, anything higher gets stuck:
[image loading]

Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4985 Posts
July 12 2016 15:22 GMT
#22
Thanks for clarification, Freakling. I didn't think of the different height n width in units tbh. I always thought a ghost was even tinier than a zergling, but I guess that's only true for the box width?

these map makers seem to understand painfully little about the underlying game mechanics of things, so they haven't got any good practices to avoid weirdness like this

I think that's very sad and inexcusable bad for BW in general.


I wanted to make a thorough post on wall ins. I'm not gonna bother if there are this many problems already.
FBH #1!
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-12 22:55:52
July 12 2016 15:24 GMT
#23
Also wanted to show these. It's a terrain level analysis (using chkdraft). green is low ground, red is high ground (sorry, red-green-blind people, I did not pick the colours, but if you cannot make out anything, I could colour-shift the pictures for you).
Observe this weirdness:
[image loading]
[image loading]
To be fair, though, neither of these is particularly bad when compared many other popular maps. For the longest time there simply has no proper tool been around for efficiently finding and fixing these kind of bugs. However, now there is. It should be made good use of!
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
July 12 2016 15:25 GMT
#24
On July 13 2016 00:22 Peeano wrote:
Thanks for clarification, Freakling. I didn't think of the different height n width in units tbh. I always thought a ghost was even tinier than a zergling, but I guess that's only true for the box width?

Exactly. Zergling is 16 wide, ghost only 15 (hence they can pass Troy gates, but Lings cannot)
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4985 Posts
July 12 2016 15:30 GMT
#25
If you ask me ASL should just hire Freakling to make the maps or either have him educate Ragnarok[Valkyrie]...
FBH #1!
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-12 15:57:24
July 12 2016 15:46 GMT
#26
On July 12 2016 23:13 Peeano wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2016 21:41 BisuDagger wrote:
On July 12 2016 20:59 Seeker wrote:
Lol, Overwatch map already? These damn clever Koreans. Taebaek Mountains looks fun but doesn't really look like a memorable map. But who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.

The map is terrible for protoss. Two entrances into the main and you can't wall of either effectively.

If anyone has time to test walls for any of the races, please post pics here.

Do you mean into the natural? You're talking about Taebaek Mountains, right?

I've done little testing, but I think I found an error:
After you kill 1 temple of the temple stack, the temple stack remains impassable terrain, but it does become buildable terrain.
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]


I've also found something that surprised me a lot:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

Neither a probe, marine, firebat, medic, nor ghost could pass there, but a zealot could. Wtf?
If that is intentional it's quite ingenious. (No, I didn't test with lings, yet)

(My testing was done offline: singleplayer>scexp>custom)


Unit sizes

TL:DR: yes, thats normal. a zeal is only 19 wide while all units you mentioned are wider. Is that wall lingtight over the gate? in that case i like it. 1 gap wall blockable with 1 zeal.

€: already answered.
Broodwar for life!
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
July 12 2016 15:57 GMT
#27
On July 13 2016 00:22 Peeano wrote:
Thanks for clarification, Freakling. I didn't think of the different height n width in units tbh. I always thought a ghost was even tinier than a zergling, but I guess that's only true for the box width?

Show nested quote +
these map makers seem to understand painfully little about the underlying game mechanics of things, so they haven't got any good practices to avoid weirdness like this

I think that's very sad and inexcusable bad for BW in general.


I wanted to make a thorough post on wall ins. I'm not gonna bother if there are this many problems already.


do it anyway pls. If the map doesn't get ditched last sec, it will be valuable for viewers who are watching ASL and to the TL Coverage (Cast&Article)

I'd do it myself, but walls are not my strong suit. I can help u test though if u want (;
Broodwar for life!
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
July 12 2016 16:26 GMT
#28
On July 13 2016 00:46 Cele wrote:TL:DR: yes, thats normal. a zeal is only 19 wide while all units you mentioned are wider. Is that wall lingtight over the gate? in that case i like it. 1 gap wall blockable with 1 zeal.
No wall is ever ling-tight above the gate (unless there is a pre-placed unwalkable tile at the top right edge or something like a neutral egg plugging the gap, neither of which is the case here).
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19229 Posts
July 12 2016 17:32 GMT
#29
On July 13 2016 01:26 Freakling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2016 00:46 Cele wrote:TL:DR: yes, thats normal. a zeal is only 19 wide while all units you mentioned are wider. Is that wall lingtight over the gate? in that case i like it. 1 gap wall blockable with 1 zeal.
No wall is ever ling-tight above the gate (unless there is a pre-placed unwalkable tile at the top right edge or something like a neutral egg plugging the gap, neither of which is the case here).

We need more neutral eggs.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4985 Posts
July 12 2016 18:58 GMT
#30
I just want to note that in Celes' explanation, he mixed up units' width with height.

And if it can be confirmed that these maps are going to be played, I'd be happy to provide wall ins coverage. Otherwise I don't see the point.
FBH #1!
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19229 Posts
July 12 2016 19:02 GMT
#31
On July 13 2016 03:58 Peeano wrote:
I just want to note that in Celes' explanation, he mixed up units' width with height.

And if it can be confirmed that these maps are going to be played, I'd be happy to provide wall ins coverage. Otherwise I don't see the point.

Please do. They will be played and the effort would be greatly appreciated.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
July 12 2016 19:35 GMT
#32
adding neutral eggs doesnt solve the issue though, only placates it
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19229 Posts
July 12 2016 19:46 GMT
#33
On July 13 2016 04:35 amazingxkcd wrote:
adding neutral eggs doesnt solve the issue though, only placates it

I was just being silly.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
prech
Profile Joined March 2014
United States2948 Posts
July 12 2016 20:40 GMT
#34
Some Overwatch testing from a YGOSU poster:

http://www.ygosu.com/community/st/319932

Showing how vulnerable the 3/6/9/12 expansions are to seige from down-below, much like FS
[image loading]

As well as the mineral-only thirds from a small nook/cranny
[image loading]

How minerals can be harvested from behind the patches
[image loading]
Liquipedia
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
July 12 2016 22:02 GMT
#35
On July 13 2016 03:58 Peeano wrote:
I just want to note that in Celes' explanation, he mixed up units' width with height.

And if it can be confirmed that these maps are going to be played, I'd be happy to provide wall ins coverage. Otherwise I don't see the point.


i did. My offer still stands to accompany you with testing though (;
Broodwar for life!
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-13 16:31:40
July 12 2016 22:20 GMT
#36
On July 13 2016 05:40 prech wrote:
Some Overwatch testing from a YGOSU poster:

http://www.ygosu.com/community/st/319932

Showing how vulnerable the 3/6/9/12 expansions are to seige from down-below, much like FS
+ Show Spoiler [Image] +
[image loading]
You could call this a feature ;D

As well as the mineral-only thirds from a small nook/cranny
+ Show Spoiler [Image] +
[image loading]
Yeah, that tank hole should have been plugged...

How minerals can be harvested from behind the patches
+ Show Spoiler [Image] +
[image loading]
And by "can" you probably mean "workers go there on their own account", i.e. there is a worker migration problem through the gap?

They seem to also have realized the obvious differences in vision (and hence terrain elevation) between the ramps.

The unequal walling options at the nats are also a real positional balance problem (and even more so in ZvP):
+ Show Spoiler [Images] +
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4985 Posts
July 12 2016 22:50 GMT
#37
On July 13 2016 07:02 Cele wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2016 03:58 Peeano wrote:
I just want to note that in Celes' explanation, he mixed up units' width with height.

And if it can be confirmed that these maps are going to be played, I'd be happy to provide wall ins coverage. Otherwise I don't see the point.


i did. My offer still stands to accompany you with testing though (;

I appreciate that but I feel it's easier to do it by myself. And it will take some time with making the right screenshots, so I'd feel like I'd be wasting your time.
FBH #1!
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
July 12 2016 22:52 GMT
#38
looks like overwatch is still a garbage map lol
vibeo gane,
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4985 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-12 23:10:40
July 12 2016 23:05 GMT
#39
On July 13 2016 07:20 Freakling wrote:
And by "can" you probably mean "workers go there on their own account", i.e. there is a worker migration problem through the gap?

Yep, I can confirm that's the case for 5, 7 and 11. I imagine it's true for 1 as well, but as I was about to test that I accidentally ended the game and I can't be bothered to redo it.

Edit: Just checked ygosu and it appears to be true for 1 as well.
FBH #1!
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-14 08:07:52
July 12 2016 23:11 GMT
#40
On July 13 2016 08:05 Peeano wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2016 07:20 Freakling wrote:
And by "can" you probably mean "workers go there on their own account", i.e. there is a worker migration problem through the gap?

Yep, I can confirm that's the case for 5, 7 and 11. I imagine it's true for 1 as well, but as I was about to test that I accidentally ended the game and I can't be bothered to redo it.

It's a minor issue, though. Even more so as all starting points have it to more or less the same extend.
Actually, mining in general is surprisingly good for Overwatch (at least as far as Protoss is concerned). I could only find three major worker pathfinding bugs at the bottom 3rd as well as some fairly minor ones at the left mineral only(1), the left nat (1) ant the top 3rd (2).
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 36m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 705
Barracks 37
LuMiX 2
Dota 2
XaKoH 470
League of Legends
JimRising 785
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K641
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor196
Other Games
summit1g9015
WinterStarcraft589
SortOf110
ProTech49
kaitlyn40
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH335
• Hupsaiya 103
• Sammyuel 48
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota267
League of Legends
• Lourlo1295
• masondota2691
• Stunt436
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
3h 36m
Clem vs Classic
SHIN vs Cure
FEL
5h 36m
WardiTV European League
5h 36m
BSL: ProLeague
11h 36m
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2v2 Season 3
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.