With the Ro16 a week away, the two new competition maps, version 1.1, have been released by Afreeca. And as of July 29, a version 1.2 with various fixes. As of August 5, a new version of each with various fixes. New version of Taebaek Mountains (2.1) released in mid-August.
Making a new thread to avoid this getting lost in the other ASL threads:
Google Translate description ▶ number of people: 2 people ▶ Size: 112 × 128 ▶ Tileset: Jungle ▶ Map Style: Melee map type Foothills ▶ Rush Street: 34 seconds (headquarters entrance entrance ↔ travel time workers) ▶ Concept - With a map of South Korea with the theme features mountainous terrain, the rough-and-tumble street map consisting of a headquarters and various branches, symbolizing the mountain foothills type of branched
▶ Features of the map - Headquarters and the front yard is because it is good to take advantage of a basin surrounded by hills air units can spread a variety of strategies, including a guerrilla war, former transport use them. - Even when the front entry to the blocked routes to bypass the entrance there are two, and induced a guerrilla war through various branches and the way it is deployed as a one-way melee combat, etc., which may break out. - It consists of a central battleground hills shaped by shaping the mountains are some of the variables as a tactical move when remote unit can be operated with a relative. - Routes that can take over a yard behind a hill 20 0 old mineral pits and fitness-old 1500 , six buildings are overlaid. Minerals are 1 minute 20 seconds to remove the workers first term basis, so simultaneous sampling is possible when you bring in many workers are much shorter time.
▶ Uniqueness - Entrance to the headquarters, but can stop a pylon workman passes. - Hill back yard is only 5 units or more range it is possible to check workers. (Marine Business, Business Hydra, beolcheo etc.) - 11:00, and 7:00 nook amount per 1,000 loaves of multi-minerals.
▶ 1.1 fixes - The headquarters moved to a little more inside. No resources away from the Siege Tanks behind the hill - Modifications that could go up to attack the building entrance area next to the unit entrance forecourt Hill - Hold the back yard increase in building stamina 1,500 dollar in three to six (total Stamina 4,500 → 9,000) - Move the position of the gas to the bottom of the central public multi 3:00
▶ 1.2 fixes - Sampling rate before modification of local resources - SimCity is modified so evenly using the Barracks, the headquarters entrance Supple - 12:00 modified to cross the front yard landscape units could not pass the rear minerals
▶ 1.90 fixes - Complement and balance each species, has been modified to go on to the good operation utilizing the original concept was air units. (Formerly) was deleted a little over the hill hit the front yard restraining element in the Taebaek Mountains, in view of the fact that the amount of gas has been difficult to obtain multi-gas exchanger placed for easy and secure small but 2/3 level. - Delete the hill back yard - The front yard is more Byway right away (Siege Artillery Hill X) is neutral building deleted. Change mineral blocking the entrance to pit five-eight (two leading defense easily utilized) - Left front yard sideways direction is connected to the left front yard, a few honeycombs (leave the unit back jotahjim) - Add City, in 3000 Mineral-old multi-gas at 7, 11 - 7:00 two, a fitness alleys that connect to multi neutral old buildings placed at 11 5000
▶ New Taebaek Mountain Range 1.90 → 2.0 fixes - Increase in the mineral-old front yard sideways eight loaves of 5 to 8 pit. (Terran is modified to a more risk when accompanied by an herbal drilling workers in surprise) - SimCity both the front yard is modified to equal as possible (when the film is the entrance to the two terrans Supple 12:00 1 Marine Barracks watering inside, toss 1 12:00 1 Forge Gate 2 zealots such as juggling can avoid intruding) → details see screenshots - Multi-hill driveway of the gas during one also that three pylons to prevent inrush beolcheo
▶ New Taebaek Mountains 2.0 → 2.1 fixes - Fix so that the right front yard sideways minerals can be taken care of once you click
Google Translate description ▶ number of people: 4 people ▶ Size : 128- × 128- ▶ Tileset : Desert ▶ Map Style : Foothills map type to fight the Central Powers
▶ Concept - Headquarters and in the front yard crystallized form , place a multi Although a donut-shaped hilly central maps fighting force gave a slight change to configure the battlefield that can be used as a more tactical .
▶ Features of the map - Headquarters and the front yard , a multi-mineral headquarters fight with the strength of the public gas multi-crystallized form in the map attached batch placed on the north, south, east and west . - Relative because even the location in which direction the public is so multi-gas can continue to deploy the forces placed on the same distance relative to the front yard , which have the resources and facilitate the deployment of the force can continue to fight . - Just because the root is important to advance the center it consists of hilly type , too, if you can get to operate defensively occupied the hill, so it is important to secure a tactical move through the hub .
▶ Uniqueness - Headquarters amount per pit next to a multi-mineral 1000 is . - 3, 6, 9, 12, the center of the gas inlet side when the multi pylon 3 can be prevented dogs . ▶ 1.1 fixes - More space to build a building and secured by slightly modifying the layout of the forecourt minerals.
▶ 1.2 version fixes - Sampling rate before modification of local resources - Barnyard modified minerals located at 11 at 5:00. Building location has moved one notch resources, minerals that can pass through the unit back - Modify the terrain using SimCity related command center and headquarters entrance forecourt - The number of pit mineral multi increased from 8 to 9 Pit Pit (the same amount as the existing 1,000)
▶ 1.3 fixes - Fixed a rare occurrence that may be pinching unit bugs terrain and yard driveway to the same size as the fighting spirit, circuit breakers. - 5:00, 11:00 front yard and driveway modified slightly modify the terrain with wide courtyard spaces 7 → 8 column (The same fighting spirit as the circuit breaker can not prevent the entrance to the Barracks 1 2 Supple) - Modify the terrain unit that might get caught in the central part of the terrain
Note TLPD links will work after maps become used for the first time and become logged in the system
Lol, Overwatch map already? These damn clever Koreans. Taebaek Mountains looks fun but doesn't really look like a memorable map. But who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.
On July 12 2016 20:59 Seeker wrote: Lol, Overwatch map already? These damn clever Koreans. Taebaek Mountains looks fun but doesn't really look like a memorable map. But who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.
The map is terrible for protoss. Two entrances into the edit: natural and you can't wall of either effectively.
If anyone has time to test walls for any of the races, please post pics here.
On July 12 2016 20:59 Seeker wrote: Lol, Overwatch map already? These damn clever Koreans. Taebaek Mountains looks fun but doesn't really look like a memorable map. But who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.
The map is terrible for protoss. Two entrances into the main and you can't wall of either effectively.
If anyone has time to test walls for any of the races, please post pics here.
On July 12 2016 20:59 Seeker wrote: Lol, Overwatch map already? These damn clever Koreans. Taebaek Mountains looks fun but doesn't really look like a memorable map. But who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.
The map is terrible for protoss. Two entrances into the main and you can't wall of either effectively.
If anyone has time to test walls for any of the races, please post pics here.
On July 12 2016 20:59 Seeker wrote: Lol, Overwatch map already? These damn clever Koreans. Taebaek Mountains looks fun but doesn't really look like a memorable map. But who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.
The map is terrible for protoss. Two entrances into the main and you can't wall of either effectively.
If anyone has time to test walls for any of the races, please post pics here.
Thanks to that, I noticed the map posted is different from version 0.9. Bah, both maps still lack that design-feel of yesteryear's maps. I want my Avalon back.
On July 12 2016 20:59 Seeker wrote: Lol, Overwatch map already? These damn clever Koreans. Taebaek Mountains looks fun but doesn't really look like a memorable map. But who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.
The map is terrible for protoss. Two entrances into the main and you can't wall of either effectively.
If anyone has time to test walls for any of the races, please post pics here.
Do you mean into the natural? You're talking about Taebaek Mountains, right?
I've done little testing, but I think I found an error: After you kill 1 temple of the temple stack, the temple stack remains impassable terrain, but it does become buildable terrain. + Show Spoiler +
I've also found something that surprised me a lot: + Show Spoiler +
Neither a probe, marine, firebat, medic, nor ghost could pass there, but a zealot could. Wtf? If that is intentional it's quite ingenious. (No, I didn't test with lings, yet)
(My testing was done offline: singleplayer>scexp>custom)
On July 12 2016 20:59 Seeker wrote: Lol, Overwatch map already? These damn clever Koreans. Taebaek Mountains looks fun but doesn't really look like a memorable map. But who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.
The map is terrible for protoss. Two entrances into the main and you can't wall of either effectively.
If anyone has time to test walls for any of the races, please post pics here.
On July 12 2016 21:29 classicyellow83 wrote: So many players have problems with the new maps. They want them gone. >.<
Do players just dislike new maps in general? I feel like they only want to play in FS and CB.
Have the maps changed since they were released to the public? Taebaek Mts still look plain with lots of ridges imo.
They seem to have issues with balance.. I haven't seen a single match where protoss won on either of the maps in pvz. Taebaek is impossible for protoss to win. Overwatch is like PvZ circuit breaker, but much harder due to not enough space for cannons on expansion and the third base being minernal only and being hard to defend. Both maps seems favor Zerg on both maps zvt especially taebaek. There is no answer for 2 hatch muta on taebaek. They are saying overwatch is sort of like circuit but better for zerg in zvt. Even Flash can't seem to win on that map.
On July 12 2016 20:59 Seeker wrote: Lol, Overwatch map already? These damn clever Koreans. Taebaek Mountains looks fun but doesn't really look like a memorable map. But who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.
The map is terrible for protoss. Two entrances into the main and you can't wall of either effectively.
If anyone has time to test walls for any of the races, please post pics here.
Do you mean into the natural? You're talking about Taebaek Mountains, right?
I've done little testing, but I think I found an error: After you kill 1 temple of the temple stack, the temple stack remains impassable terrain, but it does become buildable terrain. + Show Spoiler +
I've also found something that surprised me a lot: + Show Spoiler +
Neither a probe, marine, firebat, medic, nor ghost could pass there, but a zealot could. Wtf? If that is intentional it's quite ingenious. (No, I didn't test with lings, yet)
(My testing was done offline: singleplayer>scexp>custom)
Cele and I did ling testing last night and it was horrible. You can't pylon block the high ground back door. You can't get better than a two-hole wall at either natural. If you pylon+cannon the backdoor by clogging the lane, you can still get by with several lings unless you add a probe to block. At this point zealots can't defend if range hydras backdoor the natural. Hydras + range can hit the farside of the natural mineral patchers. Lurkers can wreck everything.
On July 12 2016 21:29 classicyellow83 wrote: So many players have problems with the new maps. They want them gone. >.<
How surprising (that's sarcasm!). Seriously, these are still badly made and imbalanced. They did actually hardly fix any of the bugs I pointed out (although they at least did some of the obvious changes, but it's really too little)... At least the random cover tiles on Overwatch are gone, as a by-effect of making the high ground ring buildable. However, that and the extra ramp making the 3rd gas expansion much easier accessible will probably make this another Terran-favoured map – not what the meta need right now.
On July 12 2016 23:13 Peeano wrote: I've done little testing, but I think I found an error: After you kill 1 temple of the temple stack, the temple stack remains impassable terrain, but it does become buildable terrain.
That's normal, it's just how stacked buildings work. You can do the same on Heartbreak Ridge (for example) Good practice would be to make terrain under stacked building blocks unbuildable, just in case. However, these map makers seem to understand painfully little about the underlying game mechanics of things, so they haven't got any good practices to avoid weirdness like this.
I've also found something that surprised me a lot: + Show Spoiler +
Neither a probe, marine, firebat, medic, nor ghost could pass there, but a zealot could. Wtf? If that is intentional it's quite ingenious. (No, I didn't test with lings, yet)
(My testing was done offline: singleplayer>scexp>custom)
If Zealots fit through, lings do as well. The simple explanation is the difference in collision box height: Zergling: 16 px Zealot: 19 px Marine, Medic: 20 px Ghost, Firebat: 22 px Worker: 23 px A Zealot barely fits throught the gap here, anything higher gets stuck:
Thanks for clarification, Freakling. I didn't think of the different height n width in units tbh. I always thought a ghost was even tinier than a zergling, but I guess that's only true for the box width?
these map makers seem to understand painfully little about the underlying game mechanics of things, so they haven't got any good practices to avoid weirdness like this
I think that's very sad and inexcusable bad for BW in general.
I wanted to make a thorough post on wall ins. I'm not gonna bother if there are this many problems already.
Also wanted to show these. It's a terrain level analysis (using chkdraft). green is low ground, red is high ground (sorry, red-green-blind people, I did not pick the colours, but if you cannot make out anything, I could colour-shift the pictures for you). Observe this weirdness: To be fair, though, neither of these is particularly bad when compared many other popular maps. For the longest time there simply has no proper tool been around for efficiently finding and fixing these kind of bugs. However, now there is. It should be made good use of!
On July 13 2016 00:22 Peeano wrote: Thanks for clarification, Freakling. I didn't think of the different height n width in units tbh. I always thought a ghost was even tinier than a zergling, but I guess that's only true for the box width?
Exactly. Zergling is 16 wide, ghost only 15 (hence they can pass Troy gates, but Lings cannot)
On July 12 2016 20:59 Seeker wrote: Lol, Overwatch map already? These damn clever Koreans. Taebaek Mountains looks fun but doesn't really look like a memorable map. But who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.
The map is terrible for protoss. Two entrances into the main and you can't wall of either effectively.
If anyone has time to test walls for any of the races, please post pics here.
Do you mean into the natural? You're talking about Taebaek Mountains, right?
I've done little testing, but I think I found an error: After you kill 1 temple of the temple stack, the temple stack remains impassable terrain, but it does become buildable terrain. + Show Spoiler +
I've also found something that surprised me a lot: + Show Spoiler +
Neither a probe, marine, firebat, medic, nor ghost could pass there, but a zealot could. Wtf? If that is intentional it's quite ingenious. (No, I didn't test with lings, yet)
(My testing was done offline: singleplayer>scexp>custom)
TL:DR: yes, thats normal. a zeal is only 19 wide while all units you mentioned are wider. Is that wall lingtight over the gate? in that case i like it. 1 gap wall blockable with 1 zeal.
On July 13 2016 00:22 Peeano wrote: Thanks for clarification, Freakling. I didn't think of the different height n width in units tbh. I always thought a ghost was even tinier than a zergling, but I guess that's only true for the box width?
these map makers seem to understand painfully little about the underlying game mechanics of things, so they haven't got any good practices to avoid weirdness like this
I think that's very sad and inexcusable bad for BW in general.
I wanted to make a thorough post on wall ins. I'm not gonna bother if there are this many problems already.
do it anyway pls. If the map doesn't get ditched last sec, it will be valuable for viewers who are watching ASL and to the TL Coverage (Cast&Article)
I'd do it myself, but walls are not my strong suit. I can help u test though if u want (;
On July 13 2016 00:46 Cele wrote:TL:DR: yes, thats normal. a zeal is only 19 wide while all units you mentioned are wider. Is that wall lingtight over the gate? in that case i like it. 1 gap wall blockable with 1 zeal.
No wall is ever ling-tight above the gate (unless there is a pre-placed unwalkable tile at the top right edge or something like a neutral egg plugging the gap, neither of which is the case here).
On July 13 2016 00:46 Cele wrote:TL:DR: yes, thats normal. a zeal is only 19 wide while all units you mentioned are wider. Is that wall lingtight over the gate? in that case i like it. 1 gap wall blockable with 1 zeal.
No wall is ever ling-tight above the gate (unless there is a pre-placed unwalkable tile at the top right edge or something like a neutral egg plugging the gap, neither of which is the case here).
On July 13 2016 03:58 Peeano wrote: I just want to note that in Celes' explanation, he mixed up units' width with height.
And if it can be confirmed that these maps are going to be played, I'd be happy to provide wall ins coverage. Otherwise I don't see the point.
i did. My offer still stands to accompany you with testing though (;
I appreciate that but I feel it's easier to do it by myself. And it will take some time with making the right screenshots, so I'd feel like I'd be wasting your time.
On July 13 2016 07:20 Freakling wrote: And by "can" you probably mean "workers go there on their own account", i.e. there is a worker migration problem through the gap?
Yep, I can confirm that's the case for 5, 7 and 11. I imagine it's true for 1 as well, but as I was about to test that I accidentally ended the game and I can't be bothered to redo it.
Edit: Just checked ygosu and it appears to be true for 1 as well.
On July 13 2016 07:20 Freakling wrote: And by "can" you probably mean "workers go there on their own account", i.e. there is a worker migration problem through the gap?
Yep, I can confirm that's the case for 5, 7 and 11. I imagine it's true for 1 as well, but as I was about to test that I accidentally ended the game and I can't be bothered to redo it.
It's a minor issue, though. Even more so as all starting points have it to more or less the same extend. Actually, mining in general is surprisingly good for Overwatch (at least as far as Protoss is concerned). I could only find three major worker pathfinding bugs at the bottom 3rd as well as some fairly minor ones at the left mineral only(1), the left nat (1) ant the top 3rd (2).
Is there any actual way we could get the korean organizers/players to know about the great foreign mapmakers we have in our community? They should definitely check the maps that have been made and consider them. Overwatch is such a goddamn joke. I wouldn't mind if it was original and unorthodox in term of balance because it has the potential to bring epic games (see Pathfinder) but it just feels like a totally worse FS kinda clone (or Jade). Hard to believe they would choose such a map for the ASL....
Maybe they could host some sort of mapping competition and judge them (players and organizers)?
On July 14 2016 06:57 Essbee wrote: Is there any actual way we could get the korean organizers/players to know about the great foreign mapmakers we have in our community? They should definitely check the maps that have been made and consider them. Overwatch is such a goddamn joke. I wouldn't mind if it was original and unorthodox in term of balance because it has the potential to bring epic games (see Pathfinder) but it just feels like a totally worse FS kinda clone (or Jade). Hard to believe they would choose such a map for the ASL....
Maybe they could host some sort of mapping competition and judge them (players and organizers)?
This gave me a great idea. If the foreign community could vote on their top 3 new maps that'd be a huge help.
On July 14 2016 06:57 Essbee wrote: Is there any actual way we could get the korean organizers/players to know about the great foreign mapmakers we have in our community? They should definitely check the maps that have been made and consider them. Overwatch is such a goddamn joke. I wouldn't mind if it was original and unorthodox in term of balance because it has the potential to bring epic games (see Pathfinder) but it just feels like a totally worse FS kinda clone (or Jade). Hard to believe they would choose such a map for the ASL....
Maybe they could host some sort of mapping competition and judge them (players and organizers)?
This gave me a great idea. If the foreign community could vote on their top 3 new maps that'd be a huge help.
On July 14 2016 06:57 Essbee wrote: Is there any actual way we could get the korean organizers/players to know about the great foreign mapmakers we have in our community? They should definitely check the maps that have been made and consider them. Overwatch is such a goddamn joke. I wouldn't mind if it was original and unorthodox in term of balance because it has the potential to bring epic games (see Pathfinder) but it just feels like a totally worse FS kinda clone (or Jade). Hard to believe they would choose such a map for the ASL....
Maybe they could host some sort of mapping competition and judge them (players and organizers)?
This gave me a great idea. If the foreign community could vote on their top 3 new maps that'd be a huge help.
What do you have in mind?
And I wonder if Tasteless could help with this.
I am working closely with KCM. Recently there was a foreign fund raiser to hold a KCM legends match. We are working hard to reboot the series. I think I can have him use the foreign maps during the foreign sponsored day.
On July 14 2016 06:57 Essbee wrote: Is there any actual way we could get the korean organizers/players to know about the great foreign mapmakers we have in our community? They should definitely check the maps that have been made and consider them. Overwatch is such a goddamn joke. I wouldn't mind if it was original and unorthodox in term of balance because it has the potential to bring epic games (see Pathfinder) but it just feels like a totally worse FS kinda clone (or Jade). Hard to believe they would choose such a map for the ASL....
Maybe they could host some sort of mapping competition and judge them (players and organizers)?
This gave me a great idea. If the foreign community could vote on their top 3 new maps that'd be a huge help.
What do you have in mind?
And I wonder if Tasteless could help with this.
I am working closely with KCM. Recently there was a foreign fund raiser to hold a KCM legends match. We are working hard to reboot the series. I think I can have him use the foreign maps during the foreign sponsored day.
Yeah I donated for that Would be good to see it again.
Workers and DTs can pass via the bottom, but not via the top.
Dragoons can fit through the gap + allows for decent cannon placement vs. hydra bust. Note: Place the zealot closer to the gateway than the cliff or it won't be ling tight.
@Peeano: The new map versions are actually not protected, you could save a lot of time by using SCMDraft to test walls (using the debug/enable debug+show unit collision sizes options).
On July 14 2016 06:57 Essbee wrote: Is there any actual way we could get the korean organizers/players to know about the great foreign mapmakers we have in our community? They should definitely check the maps that have been made and consider them. Overwatch is such a goddamn joke. I wouldn't mind if it was original and unorthodox in term of balance because it has the potential to bring epic games (see Pathfinder) but it just feels like a totally worse FS kinda clone (or Jade). Hard to believe they would choose such a map for the ASL....
Maybe they could host some sort of mapping competition and judge them (players and organizers)?
It's not as if Korea lacked talented map makers of their own. Just look at the maps of LatiAs, Noah2nd, twos/single[nemec](he's used different pseudonyms) or Herb, just to name a few who have been recently active (and that's not to speak of the thriving map making community there was before SC2). And as I understand it, all of them have taken steps to promote their own maps and inform about the flaws of designated "official" maps like these. But it seems like the message simply does not get through. Seems like, whenever they want a new "official" map for an upcoming competition, Korean tournament hosts, no matter whether they are Sonic, or whoever is responsible on Afreeca right now, just keep to asking some former "pro mapper" to hastily patch together some more or less badly-made and completely untested map (and by untested I mean that you cannot even just start a game on them and be sure your mining workers won't bug out). Maybe they figure that mappers are just too biassed and jealous when their own maps are not being picked. It is a bad reason to dismiss actual solid arguments for though.
Lol those mains in TaekB TvZ. I guess they want zergs to win, since they've been doing poorly lately. I'd suspect mech, but its not that easy to get a third, but once it gets going hydras will be useless, only mutas and drops will be able to do something, but valks and tanks are good vs that.
Its not like its bad zvp either. High ground/choke lurkers? Yes please.
Its gonna be ridiculous tvt with those high grounds all around the mains and expos. I suspect wraiths/drops will be used more often by some people.
TvP its gonna be easy for terran to attack/defend, and easy fpr toss to take expos. These can balance out, or not, depending on the playstyles and openers. Carriers and recalls will be funny, as well as late game terran pushes.
Pvp will be full of allins/reaver drops vs defensive goons and high ground hoging with dragoons. 3 gate goons will be funny.
On July 15 2016 11:26 BLinD-RawR wrote: both came out about the same time, latiAs has some great maps which definitely need a push, lets see if we can make that happen BisuDagger.
Yeah. I'll talk with KCM once we finalize the sponsor stuff. I'd love for CardinalAllin and Freakling to get their maps played on by Free, Flash, Zero, etc...
On July 15 2016 11:26 BLinD-RawR wrote: both came out about the same time, latiAs has some great maps which definitely need a push, lets see if we can make that happen BisuDagger.
Yeah. I'll talk with KCM once we finalize the sponsor stuff. I'd love for CardinalAllin and Freakling to get their maps played on by Free, Flash, Zero, etc...
if you need a good highly tested, tournament proven map, look no further than this one right here.
On July 15 2016 11:26 BLinD-RawR wrote: both came out about the same time, latiAs has some great maps which definitely need a push, lets see if we can make that happen BisuDagger.
Yeah. I'll talk with KCM once we finalize the sponsor stuff. I'd love for CardinalAllin and Freakling to get their maps played on by Free, Flash, Zero, etc...
if you need a good highly tested, tournament proven map, look no further than this one right here.
Protoss were crying over it...
However, if they are looking for an Overwatch map, I am sure we could come up with a version that has the logo on it...
if i were in charge in would rename our twilight overwatch map + use cardinal's version of latias' overwatch map and then send both maps to some korean who could help us...... and that as fast as possible (preferably yesterday)
On July 16 2016 00:14 Bakuryu wrote: if i were in charge in would rename our twilight overwatch map + use cardinal's version of latias' overwatch map and then send both maps to some korean who could help us...... and that as fast as possible (preferably yesterday)
i made that map back in 2013, so if anything i think blizz should rename their game instead
On July 15 2016 11:26 BLinD-RawR wrote: both came out about the same time, latiAs has some great maps which definitely need a push, lets see if we can make that happen BisuDagger.
Yeah. I'll talk with KCM once we finalize the sponsor stuff. I'd love for CardinalAllin and Freakling to get their maps played on by Free, Flash, Zero, etc...
if you need a good highly tested, tournament proven map, look no further than this one right here.
lol sure this map was played in leagues but this map was actually terrible for non terran users :D
On July 16 2016 00:42 -NegativeZero- wrote:i made that map back in 2013, so if anything i think blizz should rename their game instead
Didn't you rip the name off Half Life? Maybe Valve should take legal action ;D
On July 16 2016 00:14 Bakuryu wrote: if i were in charge in would rename our twilight overwatch map + use cardinal's version of latias' overwatch map and then send both maps to some korean who could help us...... and that as fast as possible (preferably yesterday)
I am pretty sure LatiAs already advertised his map himself...
On July 15 2016 11:26 BLinD-RawR wrote: both came out about the same time, latiAs has some great maps which definitely need a push, lets see if we can make that happen BisuDagger.
Yeah. I'll talk with KCM once we finalize the sponsor stuff. I'd love for CardinalAllin and Freakling to get their maps played on by Free, Flash, Zero, etc...
if you need a good highly tested, tournament proven map, look no further than this one right here.
I fucking adore that map! Don't know why iCCup didn't add it to pack long ago when everybody pleased with it.
NegativeZero congratz also with getting your map into sc2 ladder. I miss your SC2 to BW ports.
On July 16 2016 00:14 Bakuryu wrote: if i were in charge in would rename our twilight overwatch map + use cardinal's version of latias' overwatch map and then send both maps to some korean who could help us...... and that as fast as possible (preferably yesterday)
i made that map back in 2013, so if anything i think blizz should rename their game instead
except that without a name change that map will never be played by a blizzard sponsored, tastosis casted tournament which already has a desert overwatch map with big overwatch symbol (also best tileset for that symbol), while the tournament is interrupted by overwatch commercials......
Note: While this can be done with 2 zealots, it is practically impossible to block lings with 2 zealots; adding a probe or a 3rd zealot is advised!
Obviously there are more ways to wall in, but I think these are the only practical ones (and most optimal). This means if there isn't a ling tight option shown for a certain position, it means there is no practical option available. (However this does not mean you cannot create something ling tight.)
In my opinion P11 is your least favourite spawning point vs. Zerg
On July 14 2016 17:43 Freakling wrote: @Peeano: The new map versions are actually not protected, you could save a lot of time by using SCMDraft to test walls (using the debug/enable debug+show unit collision sizes options).
Thanks, I'll keep it in mind if I end up creating another album in the future.
So Best went for a pylon hugging the wall at the natural for the P7 spawn. This let him build a gateway next to his mineral line to hold. Hero exposed the issue of zerglings taking down the nuetral temple.
On July 20 2016 02:00 BisuDagger wrote: So Best went for a pylon hugging the wall at the natural for the P7 spawn. This let him build a gateway next to his mineral line to hold. Hero exposed the issue of zerglings taking down the nuetral temple.
Best's wall in wasn't ling tight on the right side of the forge. However one interesting thing to point out is that his pylon placement allows for a cannon that can range the mineral stack (granted there is high ground vision)
With the idea of ranging the stacked minerals on the high ground I think the setup below would be slightly better than what Best did: + Show Spoiler +
Personally I'd really like the red rectangle to be made buildable, but the map still seems bad... As long as only mirror match ups - namely PvP - are played on it, it should be a fun map.
On July 20 2016 02:03 classicyellow83 wrote: Overwatch is being patched and Taebaek should be replaced. It's not something new to replace a map during season due to insane imbalance.
Yeah, but it still leaves one wondering why they keep picking up maps which are in dire need of extensive patching and/or have a ton of very predictable, cheesy imbalances in the first place.
On July 20 2016 02:03 classicyellow83 wrote: Overwatch is being patched and Taebaek should be replaced. It's not something new to replace a map during season due to insane imbalance.
Yeah, but it still leaves one wondering why they keep picking up maps which are in dire need of extensive patching and/or have a ton of very predictable, cheesy imbalances in the first place.
Because they are letting people with no understanding of the game make maps and not listening to the actual players' inputs.
and you're saying that ragnarok[valkyrie], a guy who's made maps professionally since 2002 has no understanding of the game? i'm more than certain the reason why the maps have bugs in them is because these are the first maps he's probably made since the kespa era and that he hasn't had much time considering he's probably got a job/family and what not.
BeSt had a great early game with 3 drone kills in addition to making hero expand to the right top first rather than his natural. That created a significant lead that gave BeSt a good chance to win. However he failed to do so. His main fail, (other than micro fails which I'm not looking to discuss here), was that he suffered severe economical damage from lurkers on his natural high ground.
Let me show you where BeSt could have improved his build using his own idea of how to play FFE on this map: P7; + Show Spoiler +
BeSt's wall at the right side of the forge wasn't ling tight, but hero didn't try to abuse it. The option below would be better.
Far right cannon can range an enemy worker trying to mine the stacked mineral field on the high ground granted you provide high ground vision. Which I believe was the idea behind BeSt's wall in.
BeSt's pylon, as well as cybernatic core placement, only allowed 1 cannon which really fucked him over. You need a minimum of 3 cannons to make sure Lurkers can't camp your mineral line. Hero placed his Lukers just outside cannon range. BeSt's usage of corsairs for vision was good, but in BeSt's situation I'd suggest keeping vision of that high ground once Lurkers are out at all times.
Cannons are placed so they are out of reach of range hydra, yet cover all high ground behind the minerals and don't mess up your mining.
@Peeano: With that amount of cannon, he should have probably just cannon rushed!
On July 20 2016 08:06 GTR wrote: and you're saying that ragnarok[valkyrie], a guy who's made maps professionally since 2002 has no understanding of the game? i'm more than certain the reason why the maps have bugs in them is because these are the first maps he's probably made since the kespa era and that he hasn't had much time considering he's probably got a job/family and what not.
Meaningless drivel, driven by logical fallacies. It's not even consistent in itself. First you make a purely rhetoric argument for his alleged professionalism, just to then explain at length how this guy cannot be considered a professional at all. (and don't even try to make the argument that he might have been paid to make these maps. In that case I am just assuming they got exactly what they paid for while he probably got minimum wage...)
At least Overwatch is better map (or was that matchup and players we saw were great?). Open, macro, multiple choices and standart. But this map was asking to be punished from very start, just look how weird it is lol.
On July 20 2016 09:36 Freakling wrote: The amount of extra cannons Protoss need just to cover everything is still a problem all of its own. And we haven't even seen a Hydra bust yet.
That's the problem I see. Protoss has to waste so much time covering their ass. I think 2base turtle into sair/shuttle/reaver or dt is the best option. Fast shuttle reaver may pay off really nicely actually.
On July 20 2016 09:59 outscar wrote: At least Overwatch is better map (or was that matchup and players we saw were great?). Open, macro, multiple choices and standart. But this map was asking to be punished from very start, just look how weird it is lol.
Standard is the buzzword here. Grand imbalances were never to be expected to begin with (and besides, it is still to early to really judge balance). With the most map-breaking bugs and "features" fixed (the random cover-providing tiles on the north ridge and the weird haphazard tank angles on the mineral onlies) it is now actually a playable, if boring and bland-looking, map.
Ok guys. Update on what ASL is going to do about the new maps.
OverWatch - Will fix the mineral mining problem at 1 o'clock and 5 o'clock.
TaeBaek Mountain - This map will be used till the end of round 16. Will try to balance the map before round 8. But, if the map is still not balanced after testing, will be removed from the map pool and will use another map.
On July 21 2016 03:36 classicyellow83 wrote: Ok guys. Update on what ASL is going to do about the new maps.
OverWatch - Will fix the mineral mining problem at 1 o'clock and 5 o'clock.
TaeBaek Mountain - This map will be used till the end of round 16. Will try to balance the map before round 8. But, if the map is still not balanced after testing, will be removed from the map pool and will use another map.
LOL shouldnt that be done before start of the tournament, to avoid such problems? Players suggested imbalances, but why nobody listen to them? There is serious problem in the organisation of the tournament and as u said its been given credit to people to manage things that they dont understand.
On July 21 2016 04:05 Wrath wrote: Sounds good. But what could they replace it with? Blue Storm? Neo Jade?
depends on what criteria they want to be met for the map. Number of players, racial balance, more of a "standard layout" (not taebaek mnts ^^) or a tricky map.
If it should be a tricky 2 player map, i could think of Heartbreak Ridge as well. Destination is an option for that too imo. But we know to little about the selection process to say.
So this is the only of your suggestions that would make sense, in a way. I still think they would probably rather go with some conservative choice among the old Kespa maps (Blue Storm, Matchpoint...)
Disclaimer: Not saying all of these are balanced (hard to be worse than Taebaek, though, I guess) or bug-free (in fact, I know about bugs on most of them). But there is definitely not a lack of choices, more a lack of will and knowledge I guess...
So this is the only of your suggestions that would make sense, in a way. I still think they would probably rather go with some conservative choice among the old Kespa maps (Blue Storm, Matchpoint...)
Disclaimer: Not saying all of these are balanced (hard to be worse than Taebaek, though, I guess) or bug-free (in fact, I know about bugs on most of them). But there is definitely not a lack of choices, more a lack of will and knowledge I guess...
PImp those maps Freaky! Not even need to change a lot things, just fixes. I'm sure All or Nothing looks interesting if you remove stupid 2ng gas under temple and remove logo and make some changes, maybe on middle. And do you think you can balance Taebaek Mountains, let us see which changes you wanna made. I'm sure classicyellow will try to reach out guys from Ygosu and they Afreeca.
Of course foreigner Overwatch looks gorgeous! Silvery Waves has been considering so far so good and declined just because stupid OGN was afraid to try new things. Tar Basin reminders me desert Paranoid Android. But my most favourite is Oxide FTW.
This is the GOAT forgotten map 4ever. They just need to raise mineral counts from main to 9, from natural to 8 and 3rds. AI is going crazy on this map, try 1x4 zergs.
- Sampling rate before modification of local resources - SimCity is modified so evenly using the Barracks, the headquarters entrance Supple - 12:00 modified to cross the front yard landscape units could not pass the rear minerals
Overwatch ▶ 1.2 version fixes
- Sampling rate before modification of local resources - Barnyard modified minerals located at 11 at 5:00. Building location has moved one notch resources, minerals that can pass through the unit back - Modify the terrain using SimCity related command center and headquarters entrance forecourt - The number of pit mineral multi increased from 8 to 9 Pit Pit (the same amount as the existing 1,000)
Instead of using google translate for Korean, I guess one could just cite a recipe for spaghetti or something, it would make just as much sense in context...
But tldr seems to be: They eventually did do something about some of the mining bugs and finally started to put some thoughts into how players could be walling in.
The changes to the cliffs behind the naturals on Taebaek are obvious.
I find it funny how the one screwed up doodad in the bottom left centre on Overwatch was fixed, but nothing whatsoever was done about the ugly and buggy ramps...
Pretty insightful analysis guys, thanks. I wonder whether we would see a change in meta if some classic maps were used so that we could see how BW matchup understanding evolved, or didn't.
Saw this on Ygosu, looks like the map creator updated both maps. The biggest changes seemed to have been made to Taebaek Mountains, e.g. the back cliff behind each natural has been eliminated, as well as a Xel'Naga Temples added to those corner expansions at 7 & 11.
Fixes, images, and download links updated in top post
I cannot help but notice a certain ineptness in fixing the ramps; or wonder why they haven't been given the overdue cosmetic overhaul while they were at it...
On August 06 2016 12:59 prech wrote: Saw this on Ygosu, looks like the map creator updated both maps. The biggest changes seemed to have been made to Taebaek Mountains, e.g. the back cliff behind each natural has been eliminated, as well as a Xel'Naga Temples added to those corner expansions at 7 & 11.
Gasses have been added to 7/11 are another big change. Also they did not move the ridges in front of the natural with the natural movement towards the edges, which leads to that nice uninspired area.
Red also has the more optimal gas placements for its expansions compared to blue, could affect mirrors (zvz?).
so the new map is pretty much the same concept of Loki II ? im not sure it was the way to go,i prefered the old one just blocking the ramp with minerals
Noticed Taebaek Mountains went through some smaller changes last week during/before the Ro8 to make the two chokes symmetric. I think the creator also notes some subtle changes to some mineral patches. Now formally named "New Taebaek Mountains", version 2.1
Must stink for the ASL quarterfinalists to have to keep finding revised map iterations :/
Links and pictures updated in the top post. Will update the map downloads in TLPD to the final versions after ASL concludes, just in case more changes await
EPT
Taebaek Mountains v2.1 (TLPD) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LeEJ2Zo.jpg)
v1.9, v1.2, v1.1![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9D4w6Bc.jpg)
v1.2, v1.1
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Would be good to see it again.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Qcyjv9l.png)
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