On July 07 2014 22:45 Letmelose wrote: My personal list, with token leagues often remembered by the general populus,
1) Coca Cola OGN StarLeague: The birthplace of the epic rivalry between BoxeR and YellOw, but really man, considering how heavily OGN "tweaked" things just to put BoxeR on a pedestal, it delegitimizes the entire tournament for me.
2) 2002 SKY OGN StarLeague: The origin of the "Legend of the Fall", and the rise of a new hero for the protoss race. The finals had more than 25,000 people attending live, probably the most fondly remembered league for protoss fans in Korea.
3) Gillette OGN StarLeague: There's a saying in Korea, which roughly translates into, "did you only start watching OGN since Gillette OGN StarLeague you newb?", the duo-viewer magnets of BoxeR and YellOw both failed to qualify, but this league kind of signified a new era, with great games to go along with the ride. My personal favourite by far.
4) 2004 EVER StarLeague: The most fondly remembered league by many, due to 7 out of the 8 quarter-finalists having been previous OGN StarLeague/MSL winners (the odd man out being YellOw). Probably the go to choice for many. If I'm to be honest, I'm a little tired of any half decent league with BoxeR doing well in it being praised as the greatest ever.
6) YATGK MSL: One of the most thoroughly planned league, that sacrificed commercially successful elements to ensure the best players were rewarded. Some really classic match-ups, and the birth of the "Tim-Dal-Rok", the best rivalry going when the triumvirate of July, NaDa, and GoRush ruled supreme.
5) So1 OGN StarLeague: The most commercially successful league. I remember hating the horrid map pool with a vengeance, but people always wanted to see BoxeR do well, and boy did he deliver in spades. Personally, the rise of the neo-triumvirate of the protoss race (PuSan, Anytime, and Stork) was noteworthy.
6) UZOO MSL: In the same vein as YATGK MSL, one of the most highly concentrated leagues in terms of game quality, with the rise of one incredibly talented IPXZerg, some fantastic games from the legend Reach, and a back-up cast of some of the most talented players from the era. I personally think despite the commercial success of the GomTV leagues (due to the ease of access from the viewers), the vintage MSL from the days when double-elimination were the real deal, MBCGame actually brought a fresh angle that OGN StarLeague repeatidly failed to give (Jesus Christ, we get it, you want BoxeR to do well, just stop making it so goddamned obvious OGN).
To be honest, I loved them all. Even when OGN did their weird decisions just to appease the BoxeR fetish, even when MSL tried to go in a direction that I disliked just to stay afloat business-wise. But if I had to choose, I personally prefer the individual leagues that happened before the rise of the ProLeague (which took away the limelight from the individual leagues both in terms of viewership and progamer priorities), the leagues that didn't go out of their way just to cling on to the blockbuster stars of the time just to succeed commercially, and had the confidence in the participating players to create new and exciting storylines. And in the height of Starcraft's success in Korea, circa 2004~2005, when the old guard were still there, and the new blood were hungry to get the limelight the likes of BoxeR enjoyed, it was simply a pleasure to watch.
But that's just me. We all have our favourites. I mean, there's magic to be found in each and every one.
can you expand on how ogn tweaked the coca cola osl in boxer's favor? and other starleagues? i'm really curious
It's already been explained pretty well, but I'll get into the specifics.
1) Ragnarok, widely regarded as one of the worst abominations ever created, was strangely chosen as the map whenever BoxeR played with an inexplicable frequency. BoxeR played SEVEN games on Ragnarok, which is a far greater number than he should have played under reasonable circumstances. No other champion I know of gained their championship by essentially playing HALF their games under what were basically free-win conditions.
2) BoxeR actually struggled during the group stages, and was due for a tie-breaker. However, due to this strange "point system", where the points (which appears on the screen at the end of the game) were added up, and BoxeR was allowed to go through without having to do a tie-breaker. This horrible system was introduced just for this tournament, and was abandoned afterwards. Terrans are always guaranteed good points versus the zerg race due to how the match-up works, and the efficiency of their units, and I'm willing to bet any number of cash that if BoxeR was somehow disadvantaged due to this retarded system, it wouldn't have been implemented.
3) There are numerous instances where OGN got out of their way to help BoxeR, and my god were they rewarded with commercial success, which urged them to push their agenda even further. The guy was a genius, and a fine poster boy for the scene, but due to the circumstances mentioned before, I really had trouble fully enjoying any of his successful leagues. There were certain scenarios that tickled the masses just right, and successful players that didn't gain enough public approval were never backed the way popular players were (case in point, July). It's not that OGN didn't try, but once their efforts fell flat, they were quick to abandon certain players in order to make "stars" of more commercially viable pretty boys.
By the way, while it was the most obvious with BoxeR, it was never an even playing field for all the players involved. That's why I love Gillette OGN StarLeague the most. July was never meant to win. He played the "hideous alien" race, he was from a terrible non-sponsored team that nobody supported, he was a nobody, and on top of that he didn't have the pretty-boy looks that was oh so important for those fan-girls. He won his fans over with his dedication, his gutsy play, and out of the world mechanics for his time. It was such a cinderella story, but alas, he didn't have the face for it. But I'll always remember.
this actually makes me happy boxer never won the golden mouse.
1- EVER 2004 OSL - Best storyline 2- Korean Air OSL S1 - i was rooting for effort so badly, i hated FlaSh at the time... i was so happy when effort won, great memories 3- ClubDay Online MSL - i'm a Bisu fan <3
1- EVER 2004 OSL - Best storyline 2- Korean Air OSL S1 - i was rooting for effort so badly, i hated FlaSh at the time... i was so happy when effort won, great memories 3- ClubDay Online MSL - i'm a Bisu fan <3
1- EVER 2004 OSL - Best storyline 2- Korean Air OSL S1 - i was rooting for effort so badly, i hated FlaSh at the time... i was so happy when effort won, great memories 3- ClubDay Online MSL - i'm a Bisu fan <3
My favorite would be the 5 straight MSL finals that sAviOr appeared. I only watched VioleTAK's videos back then and the only games he posted of sAviOr was when he won so I actually thought this guy was completely invincible. The only game I saw sAviOr lose was that semi-final game 1 vs Nal_Ra where it came down to 1 pylon and 1 extractor.
1- EVER 2004 OSL - Best storyline 2- Korean Air OSL S1 - i was rooting for effort so badly, i hated FlaSh at the time... i was so happy when effort won, great memories 3- ClubDay Online MSL - i'm a Bisu fan <3
That was the finals of EVER OSL 2008 (July's golden mouse run). I loved that finals mostly because I was totally pumped for either player to win. Best was one of my top 2 or 3 favorite players at the time, but you just couldnt help but want Tushin to pull it off.
I still think Daum OSL where GGPlay beat Iris was the best that I ever got to watch while it was airing. I was rooting for Iris and started watching in the middle of the second game, and by the end of it I was so pissed at GGPlay for denying Iris, but also rooting for him because the kid had nerves of steel.
EVER2008 was amazing. Not just the finals but also Luxury's and Best's runs. Jinair 2011 had the most memorable finals for me. And of course the last OSL was amazing not because of the games, but for the closing ceremony, especially what Kim Carrier said.
The troll in me(and the rest of me too) still loves Arena MSL; everything seemed to be saying Flash vs Jaedong and fOrGG basically went "fuck that shit I'ma gonna crush all of you."
Also I'm still of the opinion that the fOrGG vs Kal quarterfinal series was the most underrated series since at least the beginning 2008, that was hilarious.
Does anyone know off the top of their head if this was the toughest road to starleague championship? Flash had to beat JD, Bisu, and Stork...one guy from TaekBang LeeSsang rising above and beating the other three consecutively...a truly worthy of a feat for a OSL champion.
Does anyone know off the top of their head if this was the toughest road to starleague championship? Flash had to beat JD, Bisu, and Stork...one guy from TaekBang LeeSsang rising above and beating the other three consecutively...a truly worthy of a feat for a OSL champion.
Let's take a statistical look at it. The player's opponents will be rated by their Y-Rankings (rankings used by YGOSU) at the time of the match-up.
Flash's Bacchus OGN StarLeague 2008 run.
RO16 opponents 1) Rumble: Outside of the top 30 2) Rock: Outside of the top 30 3) Stork: Ranked 1st
RO8 opponent: Jaedong Ranked 2nd
RO4 opponent: Bisu Ranked 4th
Finals opponent: Stork Ranked 2nd
So Flash's RO16 opponents were extremely soft, except for Stork, who was ranked 1st at the time. He then proceded to defeat three top four players. Stork's Y-Ranking dropped from 1st place to 2nd by the time the finals took place since Jaedong overtook him due to performing better in the same period.
Off the top of my head, ForGG's Arena MSL run could be regarded as just as hard.
RO16 opponent: Sea Ranked 5th
RO8 opponent: Kal Ranked 9th
RO4 opponent: Flash Ranked 2nd
Finals opponent: Jaedong Ranked 1st
I'll count ForGG's opponents from RO16 onwards since I can't be bothered matching the lower platforms of the OGN tournaments that corresponds to the RO32 stages of the MSL. While his round of eight opponent is of a lesser calibre, his RO16, RO4 and Finals opponents were performing better statistically. Whether you weigh the rounds accordingly, or just take the average strength of the opponents, ForGG's opponents during his run from RO16 onwards were better just in terms of statistics.
I know that the story of Flash defeating all the members of the Taek-Beng-LeeSsang was quite the storyline considering the legacy all those four players have built since then, but just take into consideration that these four players had a total of TWO OGN StarLeague trophies between them at the time (even if you include Flash's debut title at that tournament), so there were more "decorated" bracket line-ups in history, and I just pointed out how 2008 Bacchus OGN StarLeague wasn't necessarily the toughest bracket if you just look at the statistical rankings of the players at the time, especially so if you take into account the RO16.
Of course, you can argue that ForGG depended on a lot of cheese to overcome his opponents, but the same could be said for Flash. Both their victories were dependent on unorthodox builds that worked just right at the time, but probably would have worked the second time they were used.
Does anyone know off the top of their head if this was the toughest road to starleague championship? Flash had to beat JD, Bisu, and Stork...one guy from TaekBang LeeSsang rising above and beating the other three consecutively...a truly worthy of a feat for a OSL champion.
Let's take a statistical look at it. The player's opponents will be rated by their Y-Rankings (rankings used by YGOSU) at the time of the match-up.
Flash's Bacchus OGN StarLeague 2008 run.
RO16 opponents 1) Rumble: Outside of the top 30 2) Rock: Outside of the top 30 3) Stork: Ranked 1st
RO8 opponent: Jaedong Ranked 2nd
RO4 opponent: Bisu Ranked 4th
Finals opponent: Stork Ranked 2nd
So Flash's RO16 opponents were extremely soft, except for Stork, who was ranked 1st at the time. He then proceded to defeat three top four players. Stork's Y-Ranking dropped from 1st place to 2nd by the time the finals took place since Jaedong overtook him due to performing better in the same period.
Off the top of my head, ForGG's Arena MSL run could be regarded as just as hard.
RO16 opponent: Sea Ranked 5th
RO8 opponent: Kal Ranked 9th
RO4 opponent: Flash Ranked 2nd
Finals opponent: Jaedong Ranked 1st
I'll count ForGG's opponents from RO16 onwards since I can't be bothered matching the lower platforms of the OGN tournaments that corresponds to the RO32 stages of the MSL. While his round of eight opponent is of a lesser calibre, his RO16, RO4 and Finals opponents were performing better statistically. Whether you weigh the rounds accordingly, or just take the average strength of the opponents, ForGG's opponents during his run from RO16 onwards were better just in terms of statistics.
I know that the story of Flash defeating all the members of the Taek-Beng-LeeSsang was quite the storyline considering the legacy all those four players have built since then, but just take into consideration that these four players had a total of TWO OGN StarLeague trophies between them at the time (even if you include Flash's debut title at that tournament), so there were more "decorated" bracket line-ups in history, and I just pointed out how 2008 Bacchus OGN StarLeague wasn't necessarily the toughest bracket if you just look at the statistical rankings of the players at the time, especially so if you take into account the RO16.
Of course, you can argue that ForGG depended on a lot of cheese to overcome his opponents, but the same could be said for Flash. Both their victories were dependent on unorthodox builds that worked just right at the time, but probably would have worked the second time they were used.
Does anyone know off the top of their head if this was the toughest road to starleague championship? Flash had to beat JD, Bisu, and Stork...one guy from TaekBang LeeSsang rising above and beating the other three consecutively...a truly worthy of a feat for a OSL champion.
Let's take a statistical look at it. The player's opponents will be rated by their Y-Rankings (rankings used by YGOSU) at the time of the match-up.
Flash's Bacchus OGN StarLeague 2008 run.
RO16 opponents 1) Rumble: Outside of the top 30 2) Rock: Outside of the top 30 3) Stork: Ranked 1st
RO8 opponent: Jaedong Ranked 2nd
RO4 opponent: Bisu Ranked 4th
Finals opponent: Stork Ranked 2nd
So Flash's RO16 opponents were extremely soft, except for Stork, who was ranked 1st at the time. He then proceded to defeat three top four players. Stork's Y-Ranking dropped from 1st place to 2nd by the time the finals took place since Jaedong overtook him due to performing better in the same period.
Off the top of my head, ForGG's Arena MSL run could be regarded as just as hard.
RO16 opponent: Sea Ranked 5th
RO8 opponent: Kal Ranked 9th
RO4 opponent: Flash Ranked 2nd
Finals opponent: Jaedong Ranked 1st
I'll count ForGG's opponents from RO16 onwards since I can't be bothered matching the lower platforms of the OGN tournaments that corresponds to the RO32 stages of the MSL. While his round of eight opponent is of a lesser calibre, his RO16, RO4 and Finals opponents were performing better statistically. Whether you weigh the rounds accordingly, or just take the average strength of the opponents, ForGG's opponents during his run from RO16 onwards were better just in terms of statistics.
I know that the story of Flash defeating all the members of the Taek-Beng-LeeSsang was quite the storyline considering the legacy all those four players have built since then, but just take into consideration that these four players had a total of TWO OGN StarLeague trophies between them at the time (even if you include Flash's debut title at that tournament), so there were more "decorated" bracket line-ups in history, and I just pointed out how 2008 Bacchus OGN StarLeague wasn't necessarily the toughest bracket if you just look at the statistical rankings of the players at the time, especially so if you take into account the RO16.
Of course, you can argue that ForGG depended on a lot of cheese to overcome his opponents, but the same could be said for Flash. Both their victories were dependent on unorthodox builds that worked just right at the time, but probably would have worked the second time they were used.
Thanks for this. What about Mind's MSL run?
Just take a quick look at his opponents, the dates of their games, and match it to the nearest date possible on this site, and make sure the dates of the rankings precedes the games in question so that the result of the actual games don't affect the actual rankings.
Bisu isn't ranked as high as one imagines, because of his horrid ProLeague record at the time, sAviOr's past results have decayed enough to drop him from first place, and the rest of the players, while worthy opponents, aren't anything of note in the grand scale of things.
EPT
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