Inspired by the greatest game of BW ever thread...
Let's go through each OSL/KPGA/MSL season one-by-one shall we? I'll try my best to remember storylines and stuff from each.
OSL PKO '99 - First ever major Starcraft league Hanaro OSL - First time league on the new OGN channel, first (and only) foreigner to win an OSL (Grrrr...) Freechal OSL - First OSL played at the Megaweb Studio in COEX, First OSL to have an external venue for the finals. Legend of the Fall is created. Hanbitsoft OSL - First instance of the 'Royal Roader' (Boxer) Coca-Cola OSL - First instance of the Lim/Jin-rok Rivalry (Boxer vs Yellow) SKY 2001 OSL - Legend of the Fall comes back. Third foreigner to play in an OSL (Asmodey, after Pillars and Grrrr...). NATE OSL - 'The Forgotten OSL' due to the 2002 World Cup running at the same time. SKY 2002 OSL - Legend of the Fall returns (Reach). Fourth (and last) foreigner in an OSL (ElkY). Panasonic OSL - Nada royal roads. Last appearance of GARIMTO and many other veterans, signifying the end of the 'first-generation' of Starcraft professionals. Olympus OSL - Yellow loses opportunity to secure an OSL. Beginning of the 'second-generation' of Starcraft professionals.
mycube OSL - Boxer vs Joyo. Baseball stadium finals. Paradoxx ruined Zergs. NHN OSL - Silent_Control cheeses his way to 3rd place. Veteran Zeus finally makes it to an OSL final, only to be stopped by Nal_rA. Gillette OSL - First OSL played in the renovated Megaweb studio. First appearance of iloveoov and JulyZerg, who royal roads this season. Boxer fails to qualify for an OSL for the first time. EVER 2004 OSL - Boxer returns all the way from the qualifiers to make it to the final, dispatching long-time rival Yellow on the way in dramatic fashion. However, he is stopped by his protege, iloveoov. IOPS OSL - Second peak of Nada. First league to ever have only one representative of a race (Reach, Protoss). EVER 2005 OSL - July's second title. So1 OSL - Golden Mouse created. Boxer's attempts to win the Golden Mouse ended by Royal Roader Anytime, thus resurrecting the myth of The Legend of the Fall. Shinhan 2005 OSL - First of four OSL's sponsored by Shinhan Bank consecutively. iloveoov sweeps the finals 3-0 vs July. Shinhan 2006 OSL S1 - First OSL to move to a 24 player tournament. Casy gets luckiest bracket ever and wins. Shinhan 2006 OSL S2 - Nada eludes personal tragedy and the Legend of the Fall to win the first Golden Mouse trophy. First OSL to be played at the newly built e-Sports Stadium in iPark Mall, Yongsan. Shinhan 2006 OSL S3 - Savior confirms his 'bonjwa' status by finally winning an OSL title. The 'third-generation' of Starcraft professionals begin to take over.
Daum OSL - Return to the 16 player tournament format. First OSL for 'wonderkid' Flash who places fourth. GGPlay is the first ever player to win a final down two sets. EVER 2007 OSL - Jaedong royal roads. First instance of 'Taek-Bang-Leessang' all appearing in an OSL. Bacchus 2008 OSL - Flash wins his first OSL title. First instance of a map being removed halfway through the tournament (Demon's Forest). EVER 2008 OSL - First OSL to introduce the 36-man format. July comes out of nowhere and acquires the second Golden Mouse. Incruit OSL - After two second-place finishes, Stork finally wins an OSL. Fantasy revolutionizes TvZ with his mech build. Batoo OSL - Fantasy loses his second consecutive OSL final. Bacchus 2009 OSL - Jaedong acquires the third Golden Mouse and is the first back-to-back champion since Boxer in 2001. EVER 2009 OSL - Flash dominates the competition and marks the beginning of his 'god' reign. Korean Air OSL S1 - Greatest OSL finals venue ever? Effort takes the surprise win over Flash. Korean Air OSL S2 - First OSL finals overseas (Shanghai, China). First (and only) Leessang OSL final. Flash claims the fourth (and final) Golden Mouse. Bacchus 2010 OSL - Fantasy finally wins an OSL. Jin Air OSL - First OSL after a six month hiatus. Return to the 16 man format. Jangbi fulfills Legend of the Fall. tving OSL - The last Starleague. First ever back-to-back finalists. Consecutive wins for Jangbi.
KPGA/MSL KPGA 1st Tour - Dunno? Reebok KPGA - Beginning of Nada's first dominance era. Pepsi Twist KPGA - It's Nada again. Baskin and Robbins KPGA - Nada wins three in a row, foreshadows what would happen again in the Panasonic OSL a few weeks later.
Stout MSL - First MSL since geMBC rebrands to MBCgame, new studio at Sejong Game World. New double-elimination tournament format. TriGem MSL - Yellow once again fails to win a major title. Beginning of iloveoov's period of dominance. HanaFOS CenGame MSL - Dunno? SPRIS MSL - Nal_rA recall game.
You Are The Golf King MSL - First (and only) MSL final that was Bo7. UZOO MSL - Beginning of sAviOr's dominance era. CYON MSL - Dunno? Pringles MSL S1 - Format change to Ro16 dual-tournament format. First MSL in newly renovated studio at Sejong Game World. Pringles MSL S2 - sAviOr's third title.
GOMTV MSL S1 - 3/3 revolution. sAviOr falls from grace. Beginning of 18 month sponsorship by GOMTV. First MSL in new studio at COEX. GOMTV MSL S2 - Bisu wins back to back MSL's. Format changes to Ro32. GOMTV MSL S3 - Mind upsets Bisu in finals. GOMTV MSL S4 - Jaedong wins first MSL. Arena MSL - First MSL in new studio at LOOX. Birth of 'the pretender'. ClubDay Online MSL - Bisu earns third MSL title.
Lost Saga MSL - Avalon MSL - Zerg mirrors all day. NATE MSL - Infamous power outage final. Hana Daetoo Securities MSL - Bigfile MSL - Awesome semi-finals. PDPOP MSL - ABC Mart MSL - The last ever MSL.
Personally for me; Best OSL - EVER 2004, but tving has a really close spot to my heart because I was there for the semi-finals and finals live in person. Best MSL - Bigfile MSL
스마트폰의 시작, 마이큐브! The start of the smartphone, mycube! 따라올 수 없는 재미, 한게임! Unmatched fun, Hangame! 내 생애 첫 면도는 질레트와 함께! / 넘버 원은 넘버 원 다워야 한다, 질레트! Your first and only shave should be Gillette! / Number one is supposed to be number one, Gillette! 나를 새롭게 만드는 휴대폰, EVER! Create me a new cell phone, EVER! 보여주고 싶은 MP3, IOPS! Show me your MP3 player, IOPS! 나를 새롭게 하는 휴대폰, EVER! My new cell phone, EVER! 모든 휴대폰은 So1에서 만난다, 오픈 모바일 So1! Meet all the cell phones at So1, Open Mobile So1! 처음부터 끝까지 함께하는 신한은행! Together from the beginning to the end, Shinhan Bank! 도전하는 젊음과 함께하는 더 큰 감동! The challenge of youth, and an even bigger sensation that everyone experiences! UCC 세상, 다음! UCC World, Daum! 세상의 SHOW, 에버와 즐겨라! World's SHOW, enjoy EVER! 지치지 않는 열정, 박카스! Tireless enthusiasm, Bacchus! 더하는 즐거움, 함께 나누는 감동, EVER! Attaching pleasure in sharing emotion, EVER! 나만의 취업전략, 인크루트! My own employment strategy, Incruit! 이제는 바투 한판! Play Batoo now! 나를 강하게 하는 친구, 박카스! Be stronger with friends, Bacchus! 유쾌한 상상, 넘치는 즐거움, EVER! Imagine delight and enjoyment, EVER! 새로운 세상을 여는 첫 걸음, 대한항공! The first step in opening a whole new world, Korean Air! 꿈을 향한 비상, 대한항공! Flying towards a dream, Korean Air! 당신의 진짜 피로 회복제, 박카스! The real remedy to fatigue, Bacchus! 색다른 도전의 시작, 진에어! The beginning of a different challenge, Jin Air! 세상의 모든 동영상을 담다, 티빙! All of the world's videos in a box, Tving!
I'm gonna have to go back and watch a bunch of games to jog my memory, but i remember GOMTV3 (MInd vs Bisu finals) having some really exciting games, for me probably that one or Pringles off the top of my head. EVER 2004 OSL was insanely good, but I also like EVER 2008 (July's golden mouse).
Savior's OSL win was pretty sick. I've seen pretty much everything from 2004 til the end of bw and I honestly can not pick out a "best" season. So much nostalgia just reading those short storylines. I want to rewatch them all
Shinhan 2006 OSL S2 for me was solid all around. I was really invoved in it. Shinhan 2006 OSL S3 was one of the best when it came to drama and quality of games too.
EVER 2004 OSL - Boxer returns all the way from the qualifiers to make it to the final, dispatching long-time rival Yellow on the way in dramatic fashion. However, he is stopped by his protege, iloveoov.
and
GOMTV MSL S1 - 3/3 revolution. sAviOr falls from grace. Beginning of 18 month sponsorship by GOMTV. First MSL in new studio at COEX.
The Tving one had this bittersweet apocalyptic feel. Everyone was playing out of their minds for the last chance to win. Ro8, ro4, finals, all were sick matches. Especially Jangbi vs Zero. That was tense.
Tyving OSL had a really disappointing finals though. I still made a mousepad out of it though.
For me, there were a couple of big OSLs, but I generally rank them based on the finals. Ever 2007 because that was an amazing comeback for Jaedong. First game loss but absolute domination over the next 3 games. Ever 2008 because literally no one predicted July to come in from nowhere let alone win the finals 3-0. Batoo for the sheer wtf factor of the finals (Jaedongggguuuu). Korean Air 1 was great but Effort completely wrecked the event planner's plans XD. To be frank, I'd probably pick Jin Air OSL just because it was literally the least likely comeback I've ever seen. Batoo was pretty crazy but Jangbi's games were insane.
In terms of finals, Jaedong vs. fantasy at Batoo was probably the best set of games I remember... closely followed byt JangBi vs. fantasy at Jin Air. But I have to mention the one that got me into watching Starcraft, years and years ago - the TriGem MSL (iloveoov vs. YellOw).
nostalgia hitting me harder for incruit osl (fantasy osl run), but digging through some liquipedias I'm not sure what I would call the best from the elimination brackets, and I can't really remember as much of the group stage (eg like leta pure ro36 in ever osl).
First ever OSL I ever watched was EVER 2008 when July beat BeSt. Back then, I remember watching Luxury beat FlaSh and was like "Oh, cool, he used Guardians." Back then, I had no clue who anyone was and didn't know that FlaSh had just won an OSL. Luxury ended up being one of my favorite players, and oh how I regret that now...
Favorite season of OSL/MSL either has to be Arena MSL or Lost Saga MSL. Arena MSL because of fOrGG's epic run to victory, beating KaL in that epic 5-game series including the two games on Colosseum. Then, he beats FlaSh in the semis and then dismantles his then-teammate Jaedong and comes out of nowhere to win. Lost Saga MSL probably because of the awesome group selections, where maGma talked crap about Bisu and anyone that doubted him, sAviOr and his decent run, and my then-favorite player Luxury winning it all.
I really liked the MSL's... Enjoyed Kim Min Chul and Lee Seung Won.
I think it would be much much easier to identify a worst OSL/MSL, every OSL/MSL I can remember a fan favorite gets eliminated in the Ro32 or not qualify at all so there's bound to be somebody who's salty about it. My vote is for BigFile for the quality of Ro16+.
On July 07 2014 04:30 Caihead wrote: I think it would be much much easier to identify a worst OSL/MSL, every OSL/MSL I can remember a fan favorite gets eliminated in the Ro32 or not qualify at all so there's bound to be somebody who's salty about it. My vote is for BigFile for the quality of Ro16+.
Worst would easily be the Nate MSL (if only for the final). The finals was a complete joke from start to finish, starting with the players being in an entirely seperate building/area to the fans and secondly the powercut which basically destroyed any hope of Flash winning that series. He was in such a good place to make the comeback and had that power cut never happened he probably would've won that game. I still to this day don't understand the referees decision. That made me salty all weekend.
That and seeing Jangbi cheese Fanta out of the final OSL with DTs ruined my day too, but it was still a good OSL.
On July 07 2014 04:30 Caihead wrote: I think it would be much much easier to identify a worst OSL/MSL, every OSL/MSL I can remember a fan favorite gets eliminated in the Ro32 or not qualify at all so there's bound to be somebody who's salty about it. My vote is for BigFile for the quality of Ro16+.
Worst would easily be the Nate MSL (if only for the final). The finals was a complete joke from start to finish, starting with the players being in an entirely seperate building/area to the fans and secondly the powercut which basically destroyed any hope of Flash winning that series. He was in such a good place to make the comeback and had that power cut never happened he probably would've won that game. I still to this day don't understand the referees decision. That made me salty all weekend.
That and seeing Jangbi cheese Fanta out of the final OSL with DTs ruined my day too, but it was still a good OSL.
That salt.
The less terrans you have in the Ro8 the less exciting it is imo, Avalon / PDPop never forget.
On July 06 2014 18:00 GTR wrote: OSL (...) SKY 2001 OSL - Legend of the Fall comes back. Third foreigner to play in an OSL (Asmodey, after Pillars and Grrrr...). SKY 2002 OSL - Legend of the Fall returns (Reach). Fourth (and last) foreigner in an OSL (ElkY).
Ever 2009 was pretty great, and that was the first time I actually started really following BW and watched every single game. Jin Air, those two games on Pathfinder in the finals... Tving.
Well, I joined TL too late (November 2009) to watch most leagues live (and watching past VODs doesn't necessarily capture the feel of the OSL/MSL as a whole), but I thought JangBi's story in Jin Air literally could not be more fairytale than it was.
It'd be easier to identify the bad seasons. BW had such a wonderful run EVER04, Avalon, Lost Saga, Bacchus, Daum, Korea Air... maaan wonderful seasons, all of them.
There are few moments in all of starcraft history that changed the game as much as this one series. A dominating zerg hero faces a massive underdog in the young protoss Bisu. The finals that changed everything.
Savior was so good in the rest of that msl and so oblivious during the finals, given that he was such a massive favorite--makes me wonder whether that was a series he threw...
On July 07 2014 16:35 Chameleon wrote: Savior was so good in the rest of that msl and so oblivious during the finals, given that he was such a massive favorite--makes me wonder whether that was a series he threw...
screw savior
LoL - look at the careers of Bisu and sAviOr after the final. It was obviously not a throw. sAviOr career more or less collapsed after Bisu's revolution while Bisu skyrocketed to fame and was forever known as the best PvZ player of all time and probably the best Protoss as well - he is the only protoss to win more than 2 starcraft leagues (and only three protosses won 2: GARIMTO, Nal_ra and JangBi).
I can't imagine what amount of money would have sAviOr to get in order to sacrifice his career for it.
On July 07 2014 16:35 Chameleon wrote: Savior was so good in the rest of that msl and so oblivious during the finals, given that he was such a massive favorite--makes me wonder whether that was a series he threw...
screw savior
LoL - look at the careers of Bisu and sAviOr after the final. It was obviously not a throw. sAviOr career more or less collapsed after Bisu's revolution while Bisu skyrocketed to fame and was forever known as the best PvZ player of all time and probably the best Protoss as well - he is the only protoss to win more than 2 starcraft leagues (and only three protosses won 2: GARIMTO, Nal_ra and JangBi).
I can't imagine what amount of money would have sAviOr to get in order to sacrifice his career for it.
He didn't need any money. He just saw Bisu's face and he knew that was it. He converted to the church of BSports.
The entire purpose of his career was from then on to give Bisu a true rise to power that he deserved.
The exposure in the opening video, of course, was a result of this being Reach's return to OSL after a long hiatus thanks to the extraordinary exhibition of manliness that was Reach vs. Sea on Hitchhiker.
Also featured Reach cruising through his group 3-0 only to lose a heartbreaker to Stork 1-2 in the Ro8.
Sick opening video + lots of Reach + the first OSL I watched = probably my favorite OSL, although there were certainly others with better games and it always annoyed me that GGplay won instead of Iris.
On July 07 2014 16:35 Chameleon wrote: Savior was so good in the rest of that msl and so oblivious during the finals, given that he was such a massive favorite--makes me wonder whether that was a series he threw...
screw savior
LoL - look at the careers of Bisu and sAviOr after the final. It was obviously not a throw. sAviOr career more or less collapsed after Bisu's revolution while Bisu skyrocketed to fame and was forever known as the best PvZ player of all time and probably the best Protoss as well - he is the only protoss to win more than 2 starcraft leagues (and only three protosses won 2: GARIMTO, Nal_ra and JangBi).
I can't imagine what amount of money would have sAviOr to get in order to sacrifice his career for it.
He didn't need any money. He just saw Bisu's face and he knew that was it. He converted to the church of BSports.
The entire purpose of his career was from then on to give Bisu a true rise to power that he deserved.
It's funny how god of crushing terrans sacrificed himself to give power to someone whose ability to fight top terrans was always in question
On July 07 2014 16:35 Chameleon wrote: Savior was so good in the rest of that msl and so oblivious during the finals, given that he was such a massive favorite--makes me wonder whether that was a series he threw...
screw savior
LoL - look at the careers of Bisu and sAviOr after the final. It was obviously not a throw. sAviOr career more or less collapsed after Bisu's revolution while Bisu skyrocketed to fame and was forever known as the best PvZ player of all time and probably the best Protoss as well - he is the only protoss to win more than 2 starcraft leagues (and only three protosses won 2: GARIMTO, Nal_ra and JangBi).
I can't imagine what amount of money would have sAviOr to get in order to sacrifice his career for it.
He didn't need any money. He just saw Bisu's face and he knew that was it. He converted to the church of BSports.
The entire purpose of his career was from then on to give Bisu a true rise to power that he deserved.
It's funny how god of crushing terrans* sacrificed himself to give power to someone whose ability to fight top terrans was always in question
* rule does not contain firebats and terrans with wacky celebrations
The whole problem is the same as in the "best game ever" problem: what qualifies as a best league?
Best players? Best Finals? Around the same numbers of T/P/Z ? Best maps? Best storyline? It's hard to tell really.
Let's try : MSLs :
I personnally enjoyed a lot the You are the golf king MSL, not only for its stupid name, but also its storyline, the comeback of the spoiled kid Gorush who showed his immense skill at the game. The Bo7 final against Nada was great. Not a lot of Protoss though.
On other sides, i loved LG Cyon MSL and GOM season 1 because of the Savior rise and fall. I know he already won Uzoo before and he didn't even win LG Cyon, but it was in that MSL that he managed to go 5-0 against Oov, totally setting new standards for ZvT. The game on Ride of Valkyries is one of my favourites ever with the 2 big armies facing each other on high ground... One of the best ever for sure, it was noted by someone in the "best game" thread btw. Also, it was a great time to be on TL, the atmosphere was just great, and Chojja winning wasn't a bad thing, after all his crushing defeats, it also allowed some fun on tl since tfeign could pretend Chojja was the best player of the moment, which was very much debatable Also contained in this msl, beginning of the Ra vs Savior rivalry. Gom Season 1 was the fall, after so much domination, trouble maintaining his dominance over terrans (the semi final against Hwasin was awesome, never saw a zerg preventing dropships this well), Savior, just like Oov before him, lost to a promising newcomer who set new standards for PvZ, letting the old king wondering. Games, especially the finals, were not that great to be honest, but the story is great and the fact that the "03-03" thread is revived every single year shows how influencial it was.
The one i hate most is probably KPGA 2nd tour, Yellow was up 2-0 and still managed to lose. Damn it.
About OSLs, i still need to think about it, i started watching those during Coca Cola OSL..
My personal list, with token leagues often remembered by the general populus,
1) Coca Cola OGN StarLeague: The birthplace of the epic rivalry between BoxeR and YellOw, but really man, considering how heavily OGN "tweaked" things just to put BoxeR on a pedestal, it delegitimizes the entire tournament for me.
2) 2002 SKY OGN StarLeague: The origin of the "Legend of the Fall", and the rise of a new hero for the protoss race. The finals had more than 25,000 people attending live, probably the most fondly remembered league for protoss fans in Korea.
3) Gillette OGN StarLeague: There's a saying in Korea, which roughly translates into, "did you only start watching OGN since Gillette OGN StarLeague you newb?", the duo-viewer magnets of BoxeR and YellOw both failed to qualify, but this league kind of signified a new era, with great games to go along with the ride. My personal favourite by far.
4) 2004 EVER StarLeague: The most fondly remembered league by many, due to 7 out of the 8 quarter-finalists having been previous OGN StarLeague/MSL winners (the odd man out being YellOw). Probably the go to choice for many. If I'm to be honest, I'm a little tired of any half decent league with BoxeR doing well in it being praised as the greatest ever.
6) YATGK MSL: One of the most thoroughly planned league, that sacrificed commercially successful elements to ensure the best players were rewarded. Some really classic match-ups, and the birth of the "Tim-Dal-Rok", the best rivalry going when the triumvirate of July, NaDa, and GoRush ruled supreme.
5) So1 OGN StarLeague: The most commercially successful league. I remember hating the horrid map pool with a vengeance, but people always wanted to see BoxeR do well, and boy did he deliver in spades. Personally, the rise of the neo-triumvirate of the protoss race (PuSan, Anytime, and Stork) was noteworthy.
6) UZOO MSL: In the same vein as YATGK MSL, one of the most highly concentrated leagues in terms of game quality, with the rise of one incredibly talented IPXZerg, some fantastic games from the legend Reach, and a back-up cast of some of the most talented players from the era. I personally think despite the commercial success of the GomTV leagues (due to the ease of access from the viewers), the vintage MSL from the days when double-elimination were the real deal, MBCGame actually brought a fresh angle that OGN StarLeague repeatidly failed to give (Jesus Christ, we get it, you want BoxeR to do well, just stop making it so goddamned obvious OGN).
To be honest, I loved them all. Even when OGN did their weird decisions just to appease the BoxeR fetish, even when MSL tried to go in a direction that I disliked just to stay afloat business-wise. But if I had to choose, I personally prefer the individual leagues that happened before the rise of the ProLeague (which took away the limelight from the individual leagues both in terms of viewership and progamer priorities), the leagues that didn't go out of their way just to cling on to the blockbuster stars of the time just to succeed commercially, and had the confidence in the participating players to create new and exciting storylines. And in the height of Starcraft's success in Korea, circa 2004~2005, when the old guard were still there, and the new blood were hungry to get the limelight the likes of BoxeR enjoyed, it was simply a pleasure to watch.
But that's just me. We all have our favourites. I mean, there's magic to be found in each and every one.
On July 07 2014 16:35 Chameleon wrote: Savior was so good in the rest of that msl and so oblivious during the finals, given that he was such a massive favorite--makes me wonder whether that was a series he threw...
screw savior
LoL - look at the careers of Bisu and sAviOr after the final. It was obviously not a throw. sAviOr career more or less collapsed after Bisu's revolution while Bisu skyrocketed to fame and was forever known as the best PvZ player of all time and probably the best Protoss as well - he is the only protoss to win more than 2 starcraft leagues (and only three protosses won 2: GARIMTO, Nal_ra and JangBi).
I can't imagine what amount of money would have sAviOr to get in order to sacrifice his career for it.
I agree with your main point, but sAviOr's career didn't collapse after that final; he was still the indisputable best zerg player in the world and consistently top 5 for at least another 6 months after that final.
"EVER 2008 OSL - First OSL to introduce the 36-man format. July comes out of nowhere and acquires the second Golden Mouse. Incruit OSL - After two second-place finishes, Stork finally wins an OSL. Fantasy revolutionizes TvZ with his mech build. Batoo OSL - Fantasy loses his second consecutive OSL final. Bacchus 2009 OSL - Jaedong acquires the third Golden Mouse and is the first back-to-back champion since Boxer in 2001."
Can someone help me clarify this.
1st. July wins Golden Mouse (2) 2nd. Stork wins OSL. Fantasy 2nd place 3rd. Fantasy 2nd place. 4th. Jaedong wins Golden Mouse (3) - But also back to back champion, winning over Fantasy in Batoo OSL.
My question is
Who did Jaedong play in the finals @ Bacchus '09 OSL finals ??
"EVER 2008 OSL - First OSL to introduce the 36-man format. July comes out of nowhere and acquires the second Golden Mouse. Incruit OSL - After two second-place finishes, Stork finally wins an OSL. Fantasy revolutionizes TvZ with his mech build. Batoo OSL - Fantasy loses his second consecutive OSL final. Bacchus 2009 OSL - Jaedong acquires the third Golden Mouse and is the first back-to-back champion since Boxer in 2001."
Can someone help me clarify this.
1st. July wins Golden Mouse (2) 2nd. Stork wins OSL. Fantasy 2nd place 3rd. Fantasy 2nd place. 4th. Jaedong wins Golden Mouse (3) - But also back to back champion, winning over Fantasy in Batoo OSL.
My question is
Who did Jaedong play in the finals @ Bacchus '09 OSL finals ??
"EVER 2008 OSL - First OSL to introduce the 36-man format. July comes out of nowhere and acquires the second Golden Mouse. Incruit OSL - After two second-place finishes, Stork finally wins an OSL. Fantasy revolutionizes TvZ with his mech build. Batoo OSL - Fantasy loses his second consecutive OSL final. Bacchus 2009 OSL - Jaedong acquires the third Golden Mouse and is the first back-to-back champion since Boxer in 2001."
Can someone help me clarify this.
1st. July wins Golden Mouse (2) 2nd. Stork wins OSL. Fantasy 2nd place 3rd. Fantasy 2nd place. 4th. Jaedong wins Golden Mouse (3) - But also back to back champion, winning over Fantasy in Batoo OSL.
My question is
Who did Jaedong play in the finals @ Bacchus '09 OSL finals ??
On July 07 2014 04:16 Plexa wrote: So1 is the correct answer. EVER04 also acceptable. Shinhan S3 not bad either.
Yup it's So1 for me too. I can't remember the quality of the games but as a Boxer fan his fight for the golden mouse was so exiting. The Ro8 also had some of my all time favorite players in it with BoxeR, Reach, Goodfriend, Pusan, oov, July, XellOs and Anytime.
On July 07 2014 22:45 Letmelose wrote: My personal list, with token leagues often remembered by the general populus,
1) Coca Cola OGN StarLeague: The birthplace of the epic rivalry between BoxeR and YellOw, but really man, considering how heavily OGN "tweaked" things just to put BoxeR on a pedestal, it delegitimizes the entire tournament for me.
2) 2002 SKY OGN StarLeague: The origin of the "Legend of the Fall", and the rise of a new hero for the protoss race. The finals had more than 25,000 people attending live, probably the most fondly remembered league for protoss fans in Korea.
3) Gillette OGN StarLeague: There's a saying in Korea, which roughly translates into, "did you only start watching OGN since Gillette OGN StarLeague you newb?", the duo-viewer magnets of BoxeR and YellOw both failed to qualify, but this league kind of signified a new era, with great games to go along with the ride. My personal favourite by far.
4) 2004 EVER StarLeague: The most fondly remembered league by many, due to 7 out of the 8 quarter-finalists having been previous OGN StarLeague/MSL winners (the odd man out being YellOw). Probably the go to choice for many. If I'm to be honest, I'm a little tired of any half decent league with BoxeR doing well in it being praised as the greatest ever.
6) YATGK MSL: One of the most thoroughly planned league, that sacrificed commercially successful elements to ensure the best players were rewarded. Some really classic match-ups, and the birth of the "Tim-Dal-Rok", the best rivalry going when the triumvirate of July, NaDa, and GoRush ruled supreme.
5) So1 OGN StarLeague: The most commercially successful league. I remember hating the horrid map pool with a vengeance, but people always wanted to see BoxeR do well, and boy did he deliver in spades. Personally, the rise of the neo-triumvirate of the protoss race (PuSan, Anytime, and Stork) was noteworthy.
6) UZOO MSL: In the same vein as YATGK MSL, one of the most highly concentrated leagues in terms of game quality, with the rise of one incredibly talented IPXZerg, some fantastic games from the legend Reach, and a back-up cast of some of the most talented players from the era. I personally think despite the commercial success of the GomTV leagues (due to the ease of access from the viewers), the vintage MSL from the days when double-elimination were the real deal, MBCGame actually brought a fresh angle that OGN StarLeague repeatidly failed to give (Jesus Christ, we get it, you want BoxeR to do well, just stop making it so goddamned obvious OGN).
To be honest, I loved them all. Even when OGN did their weird decisions just to appease the BoxeR fetish, even when MSL tried to go in a direction that I disliked just to stay afloat business-wise. But if I had to choose, I personally prefer the individual leagues that happened before the rise of the ProLeague (which took away the limelight from the individual leagues both in terms of viewership and progamer priorities), the leagues that didn't go out of their way just to cling on to the blockbuster stars of the time just to succeed commercially, and had the confidence in the participating players to create new and exciting storylines. And in the height of Starcraft's success in Korea, circa 2004~2005, when the old guard were still there, and the new blood were hungry to get the limelight the likes of BoxeR enjoyed, it was simply a pleasure to watch.
But that's just me. We all have our favourites. I mean, there's magic to be found in each and every one.
PDPOP MSL was Hydra vs great. If you want to watch insane Hive tech ZvZ you just have to watch the finals. The last MSL was Flash vs Zero and I think it featured a TBLS group of death (?) I don't remember for sure.
On July 07 2014 22:45 Letmelose wrote: My personal list, with token leagues often remembered by the general populus,
1) Coca Cola OGN StarLeague: The birthplace of the epic rivalry between BoxeR and YellOw, but really man, considering how heavily OGN "tweaked" things just to put BoxeR on a pedestal, it delegitimizes the entire tournament for me.
2) 2002 SKY OGN StarLeague: The origin of the "Legend of the Fall", and the rise of a new hero for the protoss race. The finals had more than 25,000 people attending live, probably the most fondly remembered league for protoss fans in Korea.
3) Gillette OGN StarLeague: There's a saying in Korea, which roughly translates into, "did you only start watching OGN since Gillette OGN StarLeague you newb?", the duo-viewer magnets of BoxeR and YellOw both failed to qualify, but this league kind of signified a new era, with great games to go along with the ride. My personal favourite by far.
4) 2004 EVER StarLeague: The most fondly remembered league by many, due to 7 out of the 8 quarter-finalists having been previous OGN StarLeague/MSL winners (the odd man out being YellOw). Probably the go to choice for many. If I'm to be honest, I'm a little tired of any half decent league with BoxeR doing well in it being praised as the greatest ever.
6) YATGK MSL: One of the most thoroughly planned league, that sacrificed commercially successful elements to ensure the best players were rewarded. Some really classic match-ups, and the birth of the "Tim-Dal-Rok", the best rivalry going when the triumvirate of July, NaDa, and GoRush ruled supreme.
5) So1 OGN StarLeague: The most commercially successful league. I remember hating the horrid map pool with a vengeance, but people always wanted to see BoxeR do well, and boy did he deliver in spades. Personally, the rise of the neo-triumvirate of the protoss race (PuSan, Anytime, and Stork) was noteworthy.
6) UZOO MSL: In the same vein as YATGK MSL, one of the most highly concentrated leagues in terms of game quality, with the rise of one incredibly talented IPXZerg, some fantastic games from the legend Reach, and a back-up cast of some of the most talented players from the era. I personally think despite the commercial success of the GomTV leagues (due to the ease of access from the viewers), the vintage MSL from the days when double-elimination were the real deal, MBCGame actually brought a fresh angle that OGN StarLeague repeatidly failed to give (Jesus Christ, we get it, you want BoxeR to do well, just stop making it so goddamned obvious OGN).
To be honest, I loved them all. Even when OGN did their weird decisions just to appease the BoxeR fetish, even when MSL tried to go in a direction that I disliked just to stay afloat business-wise. But if I had to choose, I personally prefer the individual leagues that happened before the rise of the ProLeague (which took away the limelight from the individual leagues both in terms of viewership and progamer priorities), the leagues that didn't go out of their way just to cling on to the blockbuster stars of the time just to succeed commercially, and had the confidence in the participating players to create new and exciting storylines. And in the height of Starcraft's success in Korea, circa 2004~2005, when the old guard were still there, and the new blood were hungry to get the limelight the likes of BoxeR enjoyed, it was simply a pleasure to watch.
But that's just me. We all have our favourites. I mean, there's magic to be found in each and every one.
can you expand on how ogn tweaked the coca cola osl in boxer's favor? and other starleagues? i'm really curious
- finals map order was heavily in favour of boxer (for coca-cola), neo hall of valhalla was going to be played twice which was awful for yellow.
- rumors floated around that the golden mouse was created solely just for boxer to 'win' to help cement his place in starcraft history (all the so1 hype was literally 'can boxer win the golden mouse?)
- when the osl shifted to a 24 man format for shinhan 2006 season 1, many speculated it was only because they wanted boxer in the league as he failed to qualify for the initial 16 man tournament.
honestly though you can't really blame the ogn pd's for their decisions, boxer was starcraft's golden boy and they (ogn) had to try and keep him relevant as much as possible without looking too suspicious.
On July 07 2014 22:45 Letmelose wrote: My personal list, with token leagues often remembered by the general populus,
1) Coca Cola OGN StarLeague: The birthplace of the epic rivalry between BoxeR and YellOw, but really man, considering how heavily OGN "tweaked" things just to put BoxeR on a pedestal, it delegitimizes the entire tournament for me.
2) 2002 SKY OGN StarLeague: The origin of the "Legend of the Fall", and the rise of a new hero for the protoss race. The finals had more than 25,000 people attending live, probably the most fondly remembered league for protoss fans in Korea.
3) Gillette OGN StarLeague: There's a saying in Korea, which roughly translates into, "did you only start watching OGN since Gillette OGN StarLeague you newb?", the duo-viewer magnets of BoxeR and YellOw both failed to qualify, but this league kind of signified a new era, with great games to go along with the ride. My personal favourite by far.
4) 2004 EVER StarLeague: The most fondly remembered league by many, due to 7 out of the 8 quarter-finalists having been previous OGN StarLeague/MSL winners (the odd man out being YellOw). Probably the go to choice for many. If I'm to be honest, I'm a little tired of any half decent league with BoxeR doing well in it being praised as the greatest ever.
6) YATGK MSL: One of the most thoroughly planned league, that sacrificed commercially successful elements to ensure the best players were rewarded. Some really classic match-ups, and the birth of the "Tim-Dal-Rok", the best rivalry going when the triumvirate of July, NaDa, and GoRush ruled supreme.
5) So1 OGN StarLeague: The most commercially successful league. I remember hating the horrid map pool with a vengeance, but people always wanted to see BoxeR do well, and boy did he deliver in spades. Personally, the rise of the neo-triumvirate of the protoss race (PuSan, Anytime, and Stork) was noteworthy.
6) UZOO MSL: In the same vein as YATGK MSL, one of the most highly concentrated leagues in terms of game quality, with the rise of one incredibly talented IPXZerg, some fantastic games from the legend Reach, and a back-up cast of some of the most talented players from the era. I personally think despite the commercial success of the GomTV leagues (due to the ease of access from the viewers), the vintage MSL from the days when double-elimination were the real deal, MBCGame actually brought a fresh angle that OGN StarLeague repeatidly failed to give (Jesus Christ, we get it, you want BoxeR to do well, just stop making it so goddamned obvious OGN).
To be honest, I loved them all. Even when OGN did their weird decisions just to appease the BoxeR fetish, even when MSL tried to go in a direction that I disliked just to stay afloat business-wise. But if I had to choose, I personally prefer the individual leagues that happened before the rise of the ProLeague (which took away the limelight from the individual leagues both in terms of viewership and progamer priorities), the leagues that didn't go out of their way just to cling on to the blockbuster stars of the time just to succeed commercially, and had the confidence in the participating players to create new and exciting storylines. And in the height of Starcraft's success in Korea, circa 2004~2005, when the old guard were still there, and the new blood were hungry to get the limelight the likes of BoxeR enjoyed, it was simply a pleasure to watch.
But that's just me. We all have our favourites. I mean, there's magic to be found in each and every one.
can you expand on how ogn tweaked the coca cola osl in boxer's favor? and other starleagues? i'm really curious
- finals map order was heavily in favour of boxer (for coca-cola), neo hall of valhalla was going to be played twice which was awful for yellow.
- rumors floated around that the golden mouse was created solely just for boxer to 'win' to help cement his place in starcraft history (all the so1 hype was literally 'can boxer win the golden mouse?)
- when the osl shifted to a 24 man format for shinhan 2006 season 1, many speculated it was only because they wanted boxer in the league as he failed to qualify for the initial 16 man tournament.
honestly though you can't really blame the ogn pd's for their decisions, boxer was starcraft's golden boy and they (ogn) had to try and keep him relevant as much as possible without looking too suspicious.
Oh wow. You really should write down the history of professional SC:BW: from start-ups into KeSPA to the Hybrid Proleague sad finale.
And you still missed eVERLAST as first foreign progamer in OSL unless he is 0th progamer, being in PKO etc.
On July 07 2014 22:45 Letmelose wrote: My personal list, with token leagues often remembered by the general populus,
1) Coca Cola OGN StarLeague: The birthplace of the epic rivalry between BoxeR and YellOw, but really man, considering how heavily OGN "tweaked" things just to put BoxeR on a pedestal, it delegitimizes the entire tournament for me.
2) 2002 SKY OGN StarLeague: The origin of the "Legend of the Fall", and the rise of a new hero for the protoss race. The finals had more than 25,000 people attending live, probably the most fondly remembered league for protoss fans in Korea.
3) Gillette OGN StarLeague: There's a saying in Korea, which roughly translates into, "did you only start watching OGN since Gillette OGN StarLeague you newb?", the duo-viewer magnets of BoxeR and YellOw both failed to qualify, but this league kind of signified a new era, with great games to go along with the ride. My personal favourite by far.
4) 2004 EVER StarLeague: The most fondly remembered league by many, due to 7 out of the 8 quarter-finalists having been previous OGN StarLeague/MSL winners (the odd man out being YellOw). Probably the go to choice for many. If I'm to be honest, I'm a little tired of any half decent league with BoxeR doing well in it being praised as the greatest ever.
6) YATGK MSL: One of the most thoroughly planned league, that sacrificed commercially successful elements to ensure the best players were rewarded. Some really classic match-ups, and the birth of the "Tim-Dal-Rok", the best rivalry going when the triumvirate of July, NaDa, and GoRush ruled supreme.
5) So1 OGN StarLeague: The most commercially successful league. I remember hating the horrid map pool with a vengeance, but people always wanted to see BoxeR do well, and boy did he deliver in spades. Personally, the rise of the neo-triumvirate of the protoss race (PuSan, Anytime, and Stork) was noteworthy.
6) UZOO MSL: In the same vein as YATGK MSL, one of the most highly concentrated leagues in terms of game quality, with the rise of one incredibly talented IPXZerg, some fantastic games from the legend Reach, and a back-up cast of some of the most talented players from the era. I personally think despite the commercial success of the GomTV leagues (due to the ease of access from the viewers), the vintage MSL from the days when double-elimination were the real deal, MBCGame actually brought a fresh angle that OGN StarLeague repeatidly failed to give (Jesus Christ, we get it, you want BoxeR to do well, just stop making it so goddamned obvious OGN).
To be honest, I loved them all. Even when OGN did their weird decisions just to appease the BoxeR fetish, even when MSL tried to go in a direction that I disliked just to stay afloat business-wise. But if I had to choose, I personally prefer the individual leagues that happened before the rise of the ProLeague (which took away the limelight from the individual leagues both in terms of viewership and progamer priorities), the leagues that didn't go out of their way just to cling on to the blockbuster stars of the time just to succeed commercially, and had the confidence in the participating players to create new and exciting storylines. And in the height of Starcraft's success in Korea, circa 2004~2005, when the old guard were still there, and the new blood were hungry to get the limelight the likes of BoxeR enjoyed, it was simply a pleasure to watch.
But that's just me. We all have our favourites. I mean, there's magic to be found in each and every one.
can you expand on how ogn tweaked the coca cola osl in boxer's favor? and other starleagues? i'm really curious
It's already been explained pretty well, but I'll get into the specifics.
1) Ragnarok, widely regarded as one of the worst abominations ever created, was strangely chosen as the map whenever BoxeR played with an inexplicable frequency. BoxeR played SEVEN games on Ragnarok, which is a far greater number than he should have played under reasonable circumstances. No other champion I know of gained their championship by essentially playing HALF their games under what were basically free-win conditions.
2) BoxeR actually struggled during the group stages, and was due for a tie-breaker. However, due to this strange "point system", where the points (which appears on the screen at the end of the game) were added up, and BoxeR was allowed to go through without having to do a tie-breaker. This horrible system was introduced just for this tournament, and was abandoned afterwards. Terrans are always guaranteed good points versus the zerg race due to how the match-up works, and the efficiency of their units, and I'm willing to bet any number of cash that if BoxeR was somehow disadvantaged due to this retarded system, it wouldn't have been implemented.
3) There are numerous instances where OGN got out of their way to help BoxeR, and my god were they rewarded with commercial success, which urged them to push their agenda even further. The guy was a genius, and a fine poster boy for the scene, but due to the circumstances mentioned before, I really had trouble fully enjoying any of his successful leagues. There were certain scenarios that tickled the masses just right, and successful players that didn't gain enough public approval were never backed the way popular players were (case in point, July). It's not that OGN didn't try, but once their efforts fell flat, they were quick to abandon certain players in order to make "stars" of more commercially viable pretty boys.
By the way, while it was the most obvious with BoxeR, it was never an even playing field for all the players involved. That's why I love Gillette OGN StarLeague the most. July was never meant to win. He played the "hideous alien" race, he was from a terrible non-sponsored team that nobody supported, he was a nobody, and on top of that he didn't have the pretty-boy looks that was oh so important for those fan-girls. He won his fans over with his dedication, his gutsy play, and out of the world mechanics for his time. It was such a cinderella story, but alas, he didn't have the face for it. But I'll always remember.
1) Ragnarok, widely regarded as one of the worst abominations ever created, was strangely chosen as the map whenever BoxeR played with an inexplicable frequency. BoxeR played SEVEN games on Ragnarok, which is a far greater number than he should have played under reasonable circumstances. No other champion I know of gained their championship by essentially playing HALF their games under what were basically free-win conditions.
O wow - when I looked up statistics, in the final there was only one fairly balanced map (55% TvZ) and YellOw won on it. Two maps were incredibly imbalanced (Ragnarok and Neo Legacy of Char - one point for each of them) and Neo Hall of Valhalla twice - 66% TvZ.
1) Ragnarok, widely regarded as one of the worst abominations ever created, was strangely chosen as the map whenever BoxeR played with an inexplicable frequency. BoxeR played SEVEN games on Ragnarok, which is a far greater number than he should have played under reasonable circumstances. No other champion I know of gained their championship by essentially playing HALF their games under what were basically free-win conditions.
O wow - when I looked up statistics, in the final there was only one fairly balanced map (55% TvZ) and YellOw won on it. Two maps were incredibly imbalanced (Ragnarok and Neo Legacy of Char - one point for each of them) and Neo Hall of Valhalla twice - 66% TvZ.
yeah, but was it the map that were imbalanced, or the metagame at thattime on these maps ?
1) Ragnarok, widely regarded as one of the worst abominations ever created, was strangely chosen as the map whenever BoxeR played with an inexplicable frequency. BoxeR played SEVEN games on Ragnarok, which is a far greater number than he should have played under reasonable circumstances. No other champion I know of gained their championship by essentially playing HALF their games under what were basically free-win conditions.
O wow - when I looked up statistics, in the final there was only one fairly balanced map (55% TvZ) and YellOw won on it. Two maps were incredibly imbalanced (Ragnarok and Neo Legacy of Char - one point for each of them) and Neo Hall of Valhalla twice - 66% TvZ.
yeah, but was it the map that were imbalanced, or the metagame at thattime on these maps ?
Well the balance of a map has sense only in the context of given metagame. If the amateurs - for example - have around 80% winrate in TvZ in specific map but it is "balanced" when played by pros in Korea, that's little consolation, because maybe it requires mechanics for Z that are way beyond their skill. Similarly I don't see how it would help the situation if Ragnarok would turn out to be balanced after sAviOr reshaped the matchup (I'm not saying it is balanced - just making a point).
Such excellent posts from you Letmelose. I share your feelings about OGN, about how proleague became too important while i always thought individual leagues should have been the real deal..
OSL had a lot of controversies. Of course choosing Valhalla to be played twice in Coca cola OSL was one of them. I became of fan of Yellow because of game 1 of this final, a 50 minutes desperate attempt at surviving (also because of his desperate sunken rush on the worst map of all, Ragnarok). I have to say that Boxer also got owned by OGN when they edited Incubus before his final against Garimto and he couldn't land a tank on a small island behind the natural..
I think i agree with you on Gillette. The level was very good, most series went the distance, July was the first zerg to win, in a SL with only 3 zergs, there was a come back to form from Reach and that semifinal against Oov, omg such a good moment in BW ! Oov was the ultimate challenge, no one could imagine him lose, especially in a bo5, against a no name zerg. This osl had it all, even race and match-up distribution was ok, since July made it far.
It's strange that another OSL which stands out for me is Ever2005, also won by July. This time it was mostly about tvz and again July showed how good he was. The last game was crazy, the best final game i've watched and i've watched many. Yes, i think it was better than the Jangbi comeback against Fantasy. It shadows almost everything else, although i remember good semifinals.
Shinhan bank season 2 and 3 were good ones. Season 2 could have got better if Anytime actually managed to win but it was still a good osl. Season 3 had the whole "Finally Savior managed to qualify for an osl" story. He did through an ODT group containing Jaedong, Casy and Sea... That was already something. Then some rivalries appeared, with a red hot Midas, with his teammate Iris and of course Nada. The only problem i had with those OSLs is the stupid 24 men format which made the group phase almost irrelevant since only the last guy was eliminated. I just couldn't stand it, it took out half the fun.
Daum OSL was a good one in terms of gameplay even though i never really felt connected anyhow to GGPlay, he was mechanically great but it was emotionally not that good.
Curiously, the lastest OSLs have left less impressions on me, even though i really liked Jaedong and Flash. That's strange when i realize the crazy run of Flash against Jaedong, Bisu and Stork to win his first title, but i don't remember any of it except for the final shutdown. Same thing for the first Jangbi title, a long time coming one, but i forgot the circumstances. Maybe it's because the times were more about proleague, i don't know.
Ragnarock was a bad map, whatever metagame you consider. It had an impact of course but not that much. It's just that the nat was in a dumb place that made it easy to defend as terran with tanks and difficult as zerg because the travel distance was quite long. Any competent terran would prevent zerg from expanding and would win easily from there.
Btw, it was on that map that Boxer played 7 times (7/0) during Coca-Cola OSL, including 1 tvp. He played Valhalla 4 times (4/0), Jungle Story (a quite fair map by 2001 standards) twice and Legacy of Char (very good for zerg) twice, and he lost the 4 games on those 2 maps. It makes me mad to think about it actually.
Savior > Nada @ Shinhan 2006. The rivalry between these two at this time was epic. Savior was just so good back then it was almost unfair. There was so much hype before this game.
GGPlay > Iris @ Daum 07. The players themselves weren't huge names in the history or BW stars but I think this was this was the best finals in terms of game quality. It didn't have the hype of a Savior vs Nada but the games were amazing. GGPlay's play in game 3 under the most intense pressure is one of the most incredible BW feats I've seen. An amazing hold.
Garimto > Boxer @ SKY 2001. The first OSL final I ever saw. Boxer was pretty unbeatable at the time so this was a big upset.
Honourable mention to Jangbang in the Jin Air final. Intense play under huge pressure.
Was never into the MSL as much as OSL but you can't go past Bisu > Savior. Was it ever confirmed if Savior threw this series? Still, this ranks as the biggest ever BW upset, IMO.
After thinking this through I decided that the most memorable OSLs for me were the last two.
JangBi's first OSL was memorable because it was such indredible cindirella story - lucky wild card tournament won, than being 0-1 behind Flash but eventually getting to the final which was so exciting. And the last game with carriers (IIRC) - couldn't be better.
JangBi's second OSL was memorable mostly for the final, were so many legends assembled to say good bye to the scene that was so kind to them. I don't remember much about this tournament, but the final goodbye was truly amazing.
Of all the MSLs I remember two the most. When Flash won Golden Badge because I facepalmed so hard when Jaedong lost to Zero and king of "14cc into yaaawn..." repeated NaDa's feat but with WCG gold on top of that and the previous one when Flash went all "LoL I'm fabulous" into "0-2", I rooted so HARD for Jaedong's Golden Badge and then evenly hard facepalmed when he lost to Hydra in semis.
Which translates that I remember mostly OSLs when I was happy for JangBi and MSLs I was frustrated by Jaedong. It's incredible that player with so immaculate ZvZ (73% based on TLPD!) lost three times in MSL semis in ZvZ. Especially in PDPop when he knew there was no terran waiting for him, no Flash, no doom. This was his one sure shot at golden badge.
From the tournaments that happened before I started watching SC:BW I think I liked July's titles the most, especially the 3rd one. He was obviously excited about getting golden mouse, so unlike Nada.
To me, even as a Terran, I loved the Dragon season. Bisu was SOOO close to making it past Stork in the Ro16, and then messed up his micro to lose. Stork went on to win that OSL. After that match Bisu suddenly turned on this gear that made him dominant in PvP/PvT, the 2 match up he always had trouble with. He won the MSL/GOM Thing and was beyond great for his team.
The second would have to be Flash's emergence the second time, to be arguably the most dominant player of all time. He went from be this turtle style player to reinventing himself for 3 whole seasons. Eventually he won both the MSL and OSL in the same season.
And for nostalgia sake, Savior's final title in the OSL was amazing after going through all these maps "intended" to destroy him and Zergs.
On July 07 2014 22:45 Letmelose wrote: My personal list, with token leagues often remembered by the general populus,
1) Coca Cola OGN StarLeague: The birthplace of the epic rivalry between BoxeR and YellOw, but really man, considering how heavily OGN "tweaked" things just to put BoxeR on a pedestal, it delegitimizes the entire tournament for me.
2) 2002 SKY OGN StarLeague: The origin of the "Legend of the Fall", and the rise of a new hero for the protoss race. The finals had more than 25,000 people attending live, probably the most fondly remembered league for protoss fans in Korea.
3) Gillette OGN StarLeague: There's a saying in Korea, which roughly translates into, "did you only start watching OGN since Gillette OGN StarLeague you newb?", the duo-viewer magnets of BoxeR and YellOw both failed to qualify, but this league kind of signified a new era, with great games to go along with the ride. My personal favourite by far.
4) 2004 EVER StarLeague: The most fondly remembered league by many, due to 7 out of the 8 quarter-finalists having been previous OGN StarLeague/MSL winners (the odd man out being YellOw). Probably the go to choice for many. If I'm to be honest, I'm a little tired of any half decent league with BoxeR doing well in it being praised as the greatest ever.
6) YATGK MSL: One of the most thoroughly planned league, that sacrificed commercially successful elements to ensure the best players were rewarded. Some really classic match-ups, and the birth of the "Tim-Dal-Rok", the best rivalry going when the triumvirate of July, NaDa, and GoRush ruled supreme.
5) So1 OGN StarLeague: The most commercially successful league. I remember hating the horrid map pool with a vengeance, but people always wanted to see BoxeR do well, and boy did he deliver in spades. Personally, the rise of the neo-triumvirate of the protoss race (PuSan, Anytime, and Stork) was noteworthy.
6) UZOO MSL: In the same vein as YATGK MSL, one of the most highly concentrated leagues in terms of game quality, with the rise of one incredibly talented IPXZerg, some fantastic games from the legend Reach, and a back-up cast of some of the most talented players from the era. I personally think despite the commercial success of the GomTV leagues (due to the ease of access from the viewers), the vintage MSL from the days when double-elimination were the real deal, MBCGame actually brought a fresh angle that OGN StarLeague repeatidly failed to give (Jesus Christ, we get it, you want BoxeR to do well, just stop making it so goddamned obvious OGN).
To be honest, I loved them all. Even when OGN did their weird decisions just to appease the BoxeR fetish, even when MSL tried to go in a direction that I disliked just to stay afloat business-wise. But if I had to choose, I personally prefer the individual leagues that happened before the rise of the ProLeague (which took away the limelight from the individual leagues both in terms of viewership and progamer priorities), the leagues that didn't go out of their way just to cling on to the blockbuster stars of the time just to succeed commercially, and had the confidence in the participating players to create new and exciting storylines. And in the height of Starcraft's success in Korea, circa 2004~2005, when the old guard were still there, and the new blood were hungry to get the limelight the likes of BoxeR enjoyed, it was simply a pleasure to watch.
But that's just me. We all have our favourites. I mean, there's magic to be found in each and every one.
can you expand on how ogn tweaked the coca cola osl in boxer's favor? and other starleagues? i'm really curious
It's already been explained pretty well, but I'll get into the specifics.
1) Ragnarok, widely regarded as one of the worst abominations ever created, was strangely chosen as the map whenever BoxeR played with an inexplicable frequency. BoxeR played SEVEN games on Ragnarok, which is a far greater number than he should have played under reasonable circumstances. No other champion I know of gained their championship by essentially playing HALF their games under what were basically free-win conditions.
2) BoxeR actually struggled during the group stages, and was due for a tie-breaker. However, due to this strange "point system", where the points (which appears on the screen at the end of the game) were added up, and BoxeR was allowed to go through without having to do a tie-breaker. This horrible system was introduced just for this tournament, and was abandoned afterwards. Terrans are always guaranteed good points versus the zerg race due to how the match-up works, and the efficiency of their units, and I'm willing to bet any number of cash that if BoxeR was somehow disadvantaged due to this retarded system, it wouldn't have been implemented.
3) There are numerous instances where OGN got out of their way to help BoxeR, and my god were they rewarded with commercial success, which urged them to push their agenda even further. The guy was a genius, and a fine poster boy for the scene, but due to the circumstances mentioned before, I really had trouble fully enjoying any of his successful leagues. There were certain scenarios that tickled the masses just right, and successful players that didn't gain enough public approval were never backed the way popular players were (case in point, July). It's not that OGN didn't try, but once their efforts fell flat, they were quick to abandon certain players in order to make "stars" of more commercially viable pretty boys.
By the way, while it was the most obvious with BoxeR, it was never an even playing field for all the players involved. That's why I love Gillette OGN StarLeague the most. July was never meant to win. He played the "hideous alien" race, he was from a terrible non-sponsored team that nobody supported, he was a nobody, and on top of that he didn't have the pretty-boy looks that was oh so important for those fan-girls. He won his fans over with his dedication, his gutsy play, and out of the world mechanics for his time. It was such a cinderella story, but alas, he didn't have the face for it. But I'll always remember.
this actually makes me happy boxer never won the golden mouse.
1- EVER 2004 OSL - Best storyline 2- Korean Air OSL S1 - i was rooting for effort so badly, i hated FlaSh at the time... i was so happy when effort won, great memories 3- ClubDay Online MSL - i'm a Bisu fan <3
1- EVER 2004 OSL - Best storyline 2- Korean Air OSL S1 - i was rooting for effort so badly, i hated FlaSh at the time... i was so happy when effort won, great memories 3- ClubDay Online MSL - i'm a Bisu fan <3
1- EVER 2004 OSL - Best storyline 2- Korean Air OSL S1 - i was rooting for effort so badly, i hated FlaSh at the time... i was so happy when effort won, great memories 3- ClubDay Online MSL - i'm a Bisu fan <3
My favorite would be the 5 straight MSL finals that sAviOr appeared. I only watched VioleTAK's videos back then and the only games he posted of sAviOr was when he won so I actually thought this guy was completely invincible. The only game I saw sAviOr lose was that semi-final game 1 vs Nal_Ra where it came down to 1 pylon and 1 extractor.
1- EVER 2004 OSL - Best storyline 2- Korean Air OSL S1 - i was rooting for effort so badly, i hated FlaSh at the time... i was so happy when effort won, great memories 3- ClubDay Online MSL - i'm a Bisu fan <3
That was the finals of EVER OSL 2008 (July's golden mouse run). I loved that finals mostly because I was totally pumped for either player to win. Best was one of my top 2 or 3 favorite players at the time, but you just couldnt help but want Tushin to pull it off.
I still think Daum OSL where GGPlay beat Iris was the best that I ever got to watch while it was airing. I was rooting for Iris and started watching in the middle of the second game, and by the end of it I was so pissed at GGPlay for denying Iris, but also rooting for him because the kid had nerves of steel.
EVER2008 was amazing. Not just the finals but also Luxury's and Best's runs. Jinair 2011 had the most memorable finals for me. And of course the last OSL was amazing not because of the games, but for the closing ceremony, especially what Kim Carrier said.
The troll in me(and the rest of me too) still loves Arena MSL; everything seemed to be saying Flash vs Jaedong and fOrGG basically went "fuck that shit I'ma gonna crush all of you."
Also I'm still of the opinion that the fOrGG vs Kal quarterfinal series was the most underrated series since at least the beginning 2008, that was hilarious.
Does anyone know off the top of their head if this was the toughest road to starleague championship? Flash had to beat JD, Bisu, and Stork...one guy from TaekBang LeeSsang rising above and beating the other three consecutively...a truly worthy of a feat for a OSL champion.
Does anyone know off the top of their head if this was the toughest road to starleague championship? Flash had to beat JD, Bisu, and Stork...one guy from TaekBang LeeSsang rising above and beating the other three consecutively...a truly worthy of a feat for a OSL champion.
Let's take a statistical look at it. The player's opponents will be rated by their Y-Rankings (rankings used by YGOSU) at the time of the match-up.
Flash's Bacchus OGN StarLeague 2008 run.
RO16 opponents 1) Rumble: Outside of the top 30 2) Rock: Outside of the top 30 3) Stork: Ranked 1st
RO8 opponent: Jaedong Ranked 2nd
RO4 opponent: Bisu Ranked 4th
Finals opponent: Stork Ranked 2nd
So Flash's RO16 opponents were extremely soft, except for Stork, who was ranked 1st at the time. He then proceded to defeat three top four players. Stork's Y-Ranking dropped from 1st place to 2nd by the time the finals took place since Jaedong overtook him due to performing better in the same period.
Off the top of my head, ForGG's Arena MSL run could be regarded as just as hard.
RO16 opponent: Sea Ranked 5th
RO8 opponent: Kal Ranked 9th
RO4 opponent: Flash Ranked 2nd
Finals opponent: Jaedong Ranked 1st
I'll count ForGG's opponents from RO16 onwards since I can't be bothered matching the lower platforms of the OGN tournaments that corresponds to the RO32 stages of the MSL. While his round of eight opponent is of a lesser calibre, his RO16, RO4 and Finals opponents were performing better statistically. Whether you weigh the rounds accordingly, or just take the average strength of the opponents, ForGG's opponents during his run from RO16 onwards were better just in terms of statistics.
I know that the story of Flash defeating all the members of the Taek-Beng-LeeSsang was quite the storyline considering the legacy all those four players have built since then, but just take into consideration that these four players had a total of TWO OGN StarLeague trophies between them at the time (even if you include Flash's debut title at that tournament), so there were more "decorated" bracket line-ups in history, and I just pointed out how 2008 Bacchus OGN StarLeague wasn't necessarily the toughest bracket if you just look at the statistical rankings of the players at the time, especially so if you take into account the RO16.
Of course, you can argue that ForGG depended on a lot of cheese to overcome his opponents, but the same could be said for Flash. Both their victories were dependent on unorthodox builds that worked just right at the time, but probably would have worked the second time they were used.
Does anyone know off the top of their head if this was the toughest road to starleague championship? Flash had to beat JD, Bisu, and Stork...one guy from TaekBang LeeSsang rising above and beating the other three consecutively...a truly worthy of a feat for a OSL champion.
Let's take a statistical look at it. The player's opponents will be rated by their Y-Rankings (rankings used by YGOSU) at the time of the match-up.
Flash's Bacchus OGN StarLeague 2008 run.
RO16 opponents 1) Rumble: Outside of the top 30 2) Rock: Outside of the top 30 3) Stork: Ranked 1st
RO8 opponent: Jaedong Ranked 2nd
RO4 opponent: Bisu Ranked 4th
Finals opponent: Stork Ranked 2nd
So Flash's RO16 opponents were extremely soft, except for Stork, who was ranked 1st at the time. He then proceded to defeat three top four players. Stork's Y-Ranking dropped from 1st place to 2nd by the time the finals took place since Jaedong overtook him due to performing better in the same period.
Off the top of my head, ForGG's Arena MSL run could be regarded as just as hard.
RO16 opponent: Sea Ranked 5th
RO8 opponent: Kal Ranked 9th
RO4 opponent: Flash Ranked 2nd
Finals opponent: Jaedong Ranked 1st
I'll count ForGG's opponents from RO16 onwards since I can't be bothered matching the lower platforms of the OGN tournaments that corresponds to the RO32 stages of the MSL. While his round of eight opponent is of a lesser calibre, his RO16, RO4 and Finals opponents were performing better statistically. Whether you weigh the rounds accordingly, or just take the average strength of the opponents, ForGG's opponents during his run from RO16 onwards were better just in terms of statistics.
I know that the story of Flash defeating all the members of the Taek-Beng-LeeSsang was quite the storyline considering the legacy all those four players have built since then, but just take into consideration that these four players had a total of TWO OGN StarLeague trophies between them at the time (even if you include Flash's debut title at that tournament), so there were more "decorated" bracket line-ups in history, and I just pointed out how 2008 Bacchus OGN StarLeague wasn't necessarily the toughest bracket if you just look at the statistical rankings of the players at the time, especially so if you take into account the RO16.
Of course, you can argue that ForGG depended on a lot of cheese to overcome his opponents, but the same could be said for Flash. Both their victories were dependent on unorthodox builds that worked just right at the time, but probably would have worked the second time they were used.
Does anyone know off the top of their head if this was the toughest road to starleague championship? Flash had to beat JD, Bisu, and Stork...one guy from TaekBang LeeSsang rising above and beating the other three consecutively...a truly worthy of a feat for a OSL champion.
Let's take a statistical look at it. The player's opponents will be rated by their Y-Rankings (rankings used by YGOSU) at the time of the match-up.
Flash's Bacchus OGN StarLeague 2008 run.
RO16 opponents 1) Rumble: Outside of the top 30 2) Rock: Outside of the top 30 3) Stork: Ranked 1st
RO8 opponent: Jaedong Ranked 2nd
RO4 opponent: Bisu Ranked 4th
Finals opponent: Stork Ranked 2nd
So Flash's RO16 opponents were extremely soft, except for Stork, who was ranked 1st at the time. He then proceded to defeat three top four players. Stork's Y-Ranking dropped from 1st place to 2nd by the time the finals took place since Jaedong overtook him due to performing better in the same period.
Off the top of my head, ForGG's Arena MSL run could be regarded as just as hard.
RO16 opponent: Sea Ranked 5th
RO8 opponent: Kal Ranked 9th
RO4 opponent: Flash Ranked 2nd
Finals opponent: Jaedong Ranked 1st
I'll count ForGG's opponents from RO16 onwards since I can't be bothered matching the lower platforms of the OGN tournaments that corresponds to the RO32 stages of the MSL. While his round of eight opponent is of a lesser calibre, his RO16, RO4 and Finals opponents were performing better statistically. Whether you weigh the rounds accordingly, or just take the average strength of the opponents, ForGG's opponents during his run from RO16 onwards were better just in terms of statistics.
I know that the story of Flash defeating all the members of the Taek-Beng-LeeSsang was quite the storyline considering the legacy all those four players have built since then, but just take into consideration that these four players had a total of TWO OGN StarLeague trophies between them at the time (even if you include Flash's debut title at that tournament), so there were more "decorated" bracket line-ups in history, and I just pointed out how 2008 Bacchus OGN StarLeague wasn't necessarily the toughest bracket if you just look at the statistical rankings of the players at the time, especially so if you take into account the RO16.
Of course, you can argue that ForGG depended on a lot of cheese to overcome his opponents, but the same could be said for Flash. Both their victories were dependent on unorthodox builds that worked just right at the time, but probably would have worked the second time they were used.
Thanks for this. What about Mind's MSL run?
Just take a quick look at his opponents, the dates of their games, and match it to the nearest date possible on this site, and make sure the dates of the rankings precedes the games in question so that the result of the actual games don't affect the actual rankings.
Bisu isn't ranked as high as one imagines, because of his horrid ProLeague record at the time, sAviOr's past results have decayed enough to drop him from first place, and the rest of the players, while worthy opponents, aren't anything of note in the grand scale of things.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/leagues/brackets/140.jpg)
fOrGG's epic run to victory, beating 
KaL in that epic 5-game series including the two games on Colosseum. Then, he beats 
Jaedong and comes out of nowhere to win. Lost Saga MSL probably because of the awesome group selections, where maGma talked crap about Bisu and anyone that doubted him, sAviOr and his decent run, and my then-favorite player Luxury winning it all.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SonuvBob/ss/bisu_o_face.jpg)
