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If you could patch Brood War... - Page 11

Forum Index > BW General
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thezanursic
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
5492 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-25 13:32:12
January 25 2014 13:31 GMT
#201
On January 25 2014 15:34 gen.Sun wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
SC2 style wall-ins
Resolution
Scouts to have speed buff for free
Dweb lower mana cost
more tilesets
auto repair for scvs
Invisible dark archon
UI button for unit groups
mix the unit type spells


New casual mode:
auto mine
mbs
unlimited unit selection
auto stacking air units
auto patrol micro
auto cast spells
free queuing
auto wall suggestions
auto mineral jump
auto scout (works like "explore" civilization or 4x games)


SC2 style wall-ins - Why simcitying is an art form. Literally it makes so much of a difference in ZvP for both races.
Resolution - Fine
Scouts to have speed buff for free - Maybe, but I'd rather see them having more dmg vs ground
Dweb lower mana cost - While I'd like this change in PvT, I think this would potentially break sair/reaver in ZvP
more tilesets - Obviously always good
auto repair for scvs - Why not include this in the casual mode instead?
Invisible dark archon - Are you high?
UI button for unit groups - Huh?
mix the unit type spells - Wut?
http://i45.tinypic.com/9j2cdc.jpg Let it be so!
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5745 Posts
January 25 2014 15:24 GMT
#202
I wouldn't make changes to the game per se, but custom hotkeys as well as fixing the event buffer are good updates for the 21st century.

One thing that peeves me but not enough to want to change the game is medics can heal SCVs and bio from the other races, but SCVs can't repair Protoss units. That seems inconsistent.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-25 16:05:59
January 25 2014 15:33 GMT
#203
On January 25 2014 22:31 thezanursic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2014 15:34 gen.Sun wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
SC2 style wall-ins
Resolution
Scouts to have speed buff for free
Dweb lower mana cost
more tilesets
auto repair for scvs
Invisible dark archon
UI button for unit groups
mix the unit type spells


New casual mode:
auto mine
mbs
unlimited unit selection
auto stacking air units
auto patrol micro
auto cast spells
free queuing
auto wall suggestions
auto mineral jump
auto scout (works like "explore" civilization or 4x games)


SC2 style wall-ins - Why simcitying is an art form. Literally it makes so much of a difference in ZvP for both races.
Resolution - Fine
Scouts to have speed buff for free - Maybe, but I'd rather see them having more dmg vs ground
Dweb lower mana cost - While I'd like this change in PvT, I think this would potentially break sair/reaver in ZvP
more tilesets - Obviously always good
auto repair for scvs - Why not include this in the casual mode instead?
Invisible dark archon - Are you high?
UI button for unit groups - Huh?
mix the unit type spells - Wut?


I want to add that blocking zealot movement, while allowing marine movement, is an important part of TvP walling. It's more interesting than just blocking everything, like in SC2. So I do not agree with making wall ins SC2 style. Also, lifting and landing a barracks takes a lot of time, so forcing Terrans to lift a barracks in order to exit with marines from a completely walled in base is actually a nerf to Terran. Not to mention it would let Terran do ling tight wall ins on maps that it's not supposed to work on.

I also totally agree that the event buffer should be improved in a patch. It's too bad Blizzard won't get off their asses and do it. We could even get some amateur programmers to do it for them (or just use the fix that literally already exists... Just make StarCraft run with his executable automatically). All they would have to do is upload the patch. But it won't happen.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
ZeroChrome
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1001 Posts
January 25 2014 15:38 GMT
#204
On January 26 2014 00:24 oBlade wrote:
I wouldn't make changes to the game per se, but custom hotkeys as well as fixing the event buffer are good updates for the 21st century.

One thing that peeves me but not enough to want to change the game is medics can heal SCVs and bio from the other races, but SCVs can't repair Protoss units. That seems inconsistent.


Do you happen to still have that software? I'm really interested in trying it but the sites linked in the OP are dead.
Forward
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-25 18:41:36
January 25 2014 16:47 GMT
#205
Wow. Long thread. Very interesting, tho'.

I think most everyone can agree with certain things, like upping the rez, doing anything possible to stop map-hacking, fixing obvious bugs/limitations like the valk sprite bug, etc.

But many of the balance changes suggested are pure sheeite. Even I can see that. A lot of it seems to fall under, "Well, I personally have a problem fighting this unit, soooooo..." Also not much recognition of how changing one thing affects other matchups/can break them. Balance is notoriously tricky, probably drives game designers literally mad. Poor devils.

When suggesting balance changes, probably is best to begin with a set of GOALS, and work from there.

For me, those goals would be:

1) Make underutilized/seldomly-seen units more useful.

It's not only about buffing the unit in question, it can instead be about mildly de-buffing counter-units/spells/abilities that render it so useless, or making what *it* counters show up more, thus increasing the need/role for said underutilized unit.

For instance, if you saw BCs more, you'd very likely see Scouts more, even in their present form. Not that Scouts aren't crying out to be altered in certain ways (i.e. faster/cheaper speed upgrade). And, sure, both Scouts and Wraiths would be a lot more interesting (and used) if you went the buff route and upped ATG damage even moderately.

But of course, you buff even a little too much, and suddenly/surprisingly, the game is broken. It's like a spring-loaded bear-trap, doesn't take much. Having observed the absolutely massive and heated 'Imba Wars' discussions that played out on the Bliz forums prior to the 1.04 and 1.08 patches, I can tell you that a surprisingly huge % of ppl don't get that.

2) Make certain matchups less 'tunnel vision'/less played out in mostly the same old ways. Goes hand-in-hand with 1).

For ex, ZvZ is very often about muta-ling. TvP almost always requires the Terran to go mech (and push). There's ultra-obvious reasons why that is (i.e., Protoss area-effect units absolutely devastating/hard-countering T bio), but think beyond the 'Captain Obvious' box... does it absolutely have to be that way, or are there clever ways to make certain matchups play out in more varied ways, but without breaking other matchups? What would those be?

3) Level out whatever few things remain that are pretty obviously OP'd/cheesy.

I think Blizzard did a very good job of getting this mostly under control, but there are a few things remaining that are still borderline, such as Irradiate, perhaps. Some would say Dark Swarm too. Certain 'hard counters' might be a bit too brutal as well. OP'd stuff obviously limits strategic choice, since most everyone will go for the OP'd unit/spell/tactic every time if they can. Sameness = stagnation.

4) Try to keep matchup win percentages in line.

If you've done 1), 2), and 3) pretty well, but suddenly T is beating P 70% of the time or P is beating Z same, maybe you still screwed up somewhere. Though of course you have to give players time to adapt and devise new strats and ways of playing, otherwise you're 'fixing' something that may not in fact be broken.

Of course, that was one of the major reasons given to not change anything back in the pre-1.04 patch days, and time and new strats did not seem to fix matters, or did not fix them enough for most.


Just my personal .02 . And obviously it's super-unlikely Bliz will ever do another big patch for BW, but it's fun to speculate and think it through.

But Jebus H Christmas, if Bliz ever did do a 'StarCraft 1.5', modernizing the graphics/rez (but without losing that distinct BW 'look and feel'), fixing the limitations/bugs, and taking the balance/matchups to Nirvana... man, heaven help anyone who got between a BW fan and their purchase of same.

There'd be fools lying unconscious on the pavement outside the doors of game stores, because they were in the path.
User was warned for being hilarious
NukeTheStars
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States277 Posts
January 25 2014 16:52 GMT
#206
I would add Big Head Mode because I'm stuck in the 90s.
fencer
Profile Joined October 2011
122 Posts
January 25 2014 17:36 GMT
#207
Alter dark swarm slightly, maybe something like 90% of ranged damage is blocked but not all. Because it's sort of silly how literally anything under swarm can force a 200/200 terran army to retreat, and zerg can spam it forever with consume. I'd welcome some other form of buff to zerg to compensate for this.
Disc Golf is Awesome! Thought I'd throw that out there =)
Rainalcar
Profile Joined April 2010
Croatia396 Posts
January 25 2014 18:52 GMT
#208
1. Spider mine vision reduced to 1. Make a difference between the animations when it explodes and when it is killed. Make the spider mine show very small on the mini map. I hate seeing Terran all over the map
2. Hydralisk gains some extra damage vs Mutalisks. Yes, I know that many will yell at this. But ZvZ is by far the best mirror in SC when it is in full flight imo, and I know that it can be fixed if it were somehow possible to reach Lurkers. Defensive abilities of the Zerg would take it from there. Requires some tweaking, but it is possible.
3. Ghost starts with vision upgrade and more energy. Lockdown is cheaper to cast. Nukes should cost less, build faster, and ghost's nuke aiming should take a bit less time
4. Scouts faster/more maneuverable, possibly with improved sight. Or make the upgrade cheaper and faster to do. Or increase ground damage/rate of fire a bit. Scouts need buffs, in short
5. Guardians don't float as much into anti-air fire by themselves
6. Disruption web costs a bit less to cast, builds faster
7. Ensnare affects a bit larger area. Queen itself costs a bit less gas
8. Fix Valkyries sprite bug.
9. Mind Control costs less to research. Dark Archon should be smaller and start with a bit more energy. Perhaps change the model completely.
10. Optical Flare costs less to research
11. Be able to choose color. There are also a few colors that are too similar on the mini map

That's it.




j.r.r.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
January 25 2014 22:55 GMT
#209
Medic restore small area of effect. Ensnare has a set rate of fire reduction percentage instead of arbitrarily random. cost 50/100 instead of 100/100. Dark Archon does not lose shields when using mind control, smaller unit size, same as archon.
Phyanketto
Profile Joined September 2011
United States588 Posts
January 25 2014 23:00 GMT
#210
I propose one change. More camera keys. F1-F5 as location keys. That would be the best thing.
세 가지 제어
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
January 26 2014 02:15 GMT
#211
On January 26 2014 08:00 Phyanketto wrote:
I propose one change. More camera keys. F1-F5 as location keys. That would be the best thing.

Yeah, I'd do the same thing.
Rainling
Profile Joined June 2011
United States456 Posts
January 26 2014 03:36 GMT
#212
Anti-hack and automated matchmaking on Bnet, and custom hotkeys.
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
January 26 2014 06:11 GMT
#213
make scout's ground attack louder
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50531 Posts
January 26 2014 06:51 GMT
#214
On January 26 2014 15:11 rabidch wrote:
make scout's ground attack louder

you want people to get ear raped by DADADADADADADADA?
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
January 26 2014 07:13 GMT
#215
All units do the Wilhelm Scream when they die.

User was warned for being hilarious
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44220 Posts
January 26 2014 09:29 GMT
#216
On January 26 2014 15:51 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2014 15:11 rabidch wrote:
make scout's ground attack louder

you want people to get ear raped by DADADADADADADADA?

hahahaha
this is a quote
gingerfluffmuff
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria4570 Posts
January 26 2014 09:44 GMT
#217
On January 26 2014 16:13 [[Starlight]] wrote:
All units do the Wilhelm Scream when they die.


Didnt know what you meant, so YouTube delivered


hilarious idea mate :D.
・゚✧:・゚+..。✧・゚:・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚ ゜・:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING *・゜・:・゚✧:・゚✧。゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:・゜・:・゚✧::・・:・゚・゚
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6638 Posts
January 26 2014 14:42 GMT
#218
Make it so tanks don't explode when they siege while a building is landing on them.

Fix the gas mining positions so you never need more than 3 on gas.

Make it so reavers don't crawl into sunk/bunk/cannon range from certain angles.

Originally I thought of removing the goon/marine stop bug but after reading Liquid`Drone's post earlier in the thread I changed my mind.

And of course built in LAN latency, antihack, port forwarding and full compatibility for Windows 7/8.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
rel
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Guam3521 Posts
January 26 2014 15:05 GMT
#219
You don't patch chess... you don't patch Broodwar... it's perfect right now...

Now SC2.. I'd love to patch the whole game out of existence.
I'll tank push my way into her heart. ☮♥&$!
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
January 26 2014 16:47 GMT
#220
On January 27 2014 00:05 rel wrote:
You don't patch chess... you don't patch Broodwar... it's perfect right now...

If that'd remained Bliz's attitude as of v1.00, not sure BW would've become as great as it did. Probably not.


User was warned for being hilarious
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