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BW General Discussion - Page 197

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lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4163 Posts
August 17 2017 21:15 GMT
#3921
Is there a webpage to look at the Remastered ladders ? I wanna see whos' fiending the ladder while I'm at work.
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
tec27
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States3700 Posts
August 18 2017 07:21 GMT
#3922
On August 18 2017 04:11 sabas123 wrote:
What are the LL equivalency in SC:R turn rate?

I finally ran the tests for this tonight:

+ Show Spoiler [Data] +
All frame counts are from 60fps videos (~16.67ms per frame) of the time it takes
for a probe to begin moving after the click indicator becomes visible.

Blizz Rate 8:
15 frames
14 frames
15 frames
17 frames
16 frames

Min: 14 * 16.67 = ~233ms delay
Average: 15.4 * 16.67ms = ~256ms delay
Max: 17 * 16.67 = ~283ms delay

Blizz Rate 12:
11 frames
13 frames
10 frames
14 frames

Min: 10 * 16.67 = ~166ms delay
Average: 12 * 16.67ms = ~200ms delay
Max: 14 * 16.67 = ~233ms delay

Blizz Rate 12 - High latency:
11 frames
15 frames
12 frames
11 frames
11 frames
11 frames

Min: 11 * 16.67 = ~183ms delay
Average: 11.83 * 16.67 = ~197ms delay
Max: 15 * 16.67 = ~250ms delay

Blizz Rate 12 - Extra High latency:
14 frames
13 frames
12 frames
16 frames
15 frames
17 frames
14 frames

Min: 12 * 16.67 = ~200ms delay
Average: 14.42 * 16.67 = ~240ms delay
Max: 17 * 16.67 = ~283ms delay

Blizz Rate 16:
8 frames
8 frames
11 frames
8 frames

Min: 8 * 16.67 = ~133ms delay
Average = 8.75 * 16.67ms = ~145ms delay
Max: 11 * 16.67 = ~183ms delay

ShieldBattery:
16 frames
13 frames
13 frames
15 frames
15 frames

Min: 13 * 16.67 = ~216ms delay
Average = 14.4 * 16.67 = ~240ms delay
Max: 16 * 16.67 = ~266ms delay

ICCup L2:
15 frames
13 frames
14 frames
16 frames
13 frames

Min: 13 * 16.67 = ~216ms delay
Average = 14.2 * 16.67 = ~236ms delay
Max: 16 * 16.67 = ~266ms delay


Summary of that is that, contrary to a belief which I've seen espoused quite often lately, a rate of 8 is roughly equivalent to 1.16 lan latency (maybe a frame slower, hard to say super precisely without a lot more data). Increasing the latency on turn rate 12 to High seems to increase the variance without meaningfully changing the average latency (but is still faster than what lan latency would have been).
Can you jam with the console cowboys in cyberspace?
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
August 18 2017 10:12 GMT
#3923
Based on your data I can't disagree, but honestly turn rate 8 feels smoother to me and more responsive than iCCUP ever did.

What turn rate did iCCUP use?
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
ppp87
Profile Joined May 2016
Laos250 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 10:18:19
August 18 2017 10:17 GMT
#3924
Where to download recent replays of foreigners & koreans pros ?
quirinus
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Croatia2489 Posts
August 18 2017 11:09 GMT
#3925
Guys, is it just me, or did they add acceleration to the screen scroll?

I can't move the screen precisely and quickly because of it.
All candles lit within him, and there was purity. | First auto-promoted BW LP editor.
JWD[9]
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
364 Posts
August 18 2017 11:22 GMT
#3926
On August 18 2017 20:09 quirinus wrote:
Guys, is it just me, or did they add acceleration to the screen scroll?

I can't move the screen precisely and quickly because of it.


I feel the same. Then again, yesterday I learned that you can set rally points with a simple right click, so I don't have a lot of confidence in what I think is true about BW anymore.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51461 Posts
August 18 2017 11:24 GMT
#3927
I hope Blizzard can get some experienced map makers to fix some of the maps up in the ladder pool (if its going to be those maps for a while). Had a ramp vortex happen to me on Arcadia (had the game won but still chaffed about it).
Commentator
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7241 Posts
August 18 2017 11:49 GMT
#3928
On August 16 2017 10:01 Ribbon wrote:
As someone who literally got an E rank on ICCUP and played in a D- tournament where the commentators made fun of me for A-moving a reaver cross map, I really love the matchmaking system. I sat down for an hour, and played 4 games against SC2 players trying out BW for the first time. I did two ZvZs, and both times I was the only player to make Mutalisks. It was great. Just by having a vague sense of what units to make, I'm stomping people left and right

Jokes aside, as clearly bugged as the ranking is, this is a million times better than ICCUP was for me. I wanna play BW as a Zerg. I push a button. Boom. Done. I love it. No people who can't make and don't know it, no Russian potato farmers where I get 1 FPS due to lag, no getting kicked for playing Zerg. I just push a button and go. For us more casual players, it can be hard to state how big a deal this is.



Match making is the best feature. No more spamming iccup channels for games.

I feel like this alone is going to extend the popularity for quite a while.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7241 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 11:50:09
August 18 2017 11:49 GMT
#3929
On August 18 2017 20:22 JWD[9] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 20:09 quirinus wrote:
Guys, is it just me, or did they add acceleration to the screen scroll?

I can't move the screen precisely and quickly because of it.


I feel the same. Then again, yesterday I learned that you can set rally points with a simple right click, so I don't have a lot of confidence in what I think is true about BW anymore.



Right click rally points has been in bw for like 10 years
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
JWD[9]
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
364 Posts
August 18 2017 12:21 GMT
#3930
On August 18 2017 20:49 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 20:22 JWD[9] wrote:
On August 18 2017 20:09 quirinus wrote:
Guys, is it just me, or did they add acceleration to the screen scroll?

I can't move the screen precisely and quickly because of it.


I feel the same. Then again, yesterday I learned that you can set rally points with a simple right click, so I don't have a lot of confidence in what I think is true about BW anymore.



Right click rally points has been in bw for like 10 years


juvenal
Profile Joined July 2013
2448 Posts
August 18 2017 12:52 GMT
#3931
Hilarious drop micro featuring Firebathero and an unknown protoss on ladder:

Clipped the first part, the chaos party on the cliff continued for a while after that. SlayerS_`BoxeR` sends his regards.
Michael Probu
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 18 2017 14:53 GMT
#3932
On August 18 2017 20:22 JWD[9] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 20:09 quirinus wrote:
Guys, is it just me, or did they add acceleration to the screen scroll?

I can't move the screen precisely and quickly because of it.


I feel the same. Then again, yesterday I learned that you can set rally points with a simple right click, so I don't have a lot of confidence in what I think is true about BW anymore.


I'm just curious, but how were you setting rally points before?
When I think of something else, something will go here
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11286 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 15:06:16
August 18 2017 15:05 GMT
#3933
On August 18 2017 21:52 juvenal wrote:
Hilarious drop micro featuring Firebathero and an unknown protoss on ladder: https://clips.twitch.tv/ImportantRudeOctopusThunBeast
Clipped the first part, the chaos party on the cliff continued for a while after that. SlayerS_`BoxeR` sends his regards.

Sweet display of control. I'd have been awed if I was the toss player.
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
August 18 2017 15:17 GMT
#3934
Is afreeca tv really laggy for anyone else? I takes like a minute to load to begin with and then stutters all the time.
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
Cryoc
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany909 Posts
August 18 2017 15:18 GMT
#3935
On August 18 2017 16:21 tec27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 04:11 sabas123 wrote:
What are the LL equivalency in SC:R turn rate?

I finally ran the tests for this tonight:

+ Show Spoiler [Data] +
All frame counts are from 60fps videos (~16.67ms per frame) of the time it takes
for a probe to begin moving after the click indicator becomes visible.

Blizz Rate 8:
15 frames
14 frames
15 frames
17 frames
16 frames

Min: 14 * 16.67 = ~233ms delay
Average: 15.4 * 16.67ms = ~256ms delay
Max: 17 * 16.67 = ~283ms delay

Blizz Rate 12:
11 frames
13 frames
10 frames
14 frames

Min: 10 * 16.67 = ~166ms delay
Average: 12 * 16.67ms = ~200ms delay
Max: 14 * 16.67 = ~233ms delay

Blizz Rate 12 - High latency:
11 frames
15 frames
12 frames
11 frames
11 frames
11 frames

Min: 11 * 16.67 = ~183ms delay
Average: 11.83 * 16.67 = ~197ms delay
Max: 15 * 16.67 = ~250ms delay

Blizz Rate 12 - Extra High latency:
14 frames
13 frames
12 frames
16 frames
15 frames
17 frames
14 frames

Min: 12 * 16.67 = ~200ms delay
Average: 14.42 * 16.67 = ~240ms delay
Max: 17 * 16.67 = ~283ms delay

Blizz Rate 16:
8 frames
8 frames
11 frames
8 frames

Min: 8 * 16.67 = ~133ms delay
Average = 8.75 * 16.67ms = ~145ms delay
Max: 11 * 16.67 = ~183ms delay

ShieldBattery:
16 frames
13 frames
13 frames
15 frames
15 frames

Min: 13 * 16.67 = ~216ms delay
Average = 14.4 * 16.67 = ~240ms delay
Max: 16 * 16.67 = ~266ms delay

ICCup L2:
15 frames
13 frames
14 frames
16 frames
13 frames

Min: 13 * 16.67 = ~216ms delay
Average = 14.2 * 16.67 = ~236ms delay
Max: 16 * 16.67 = ~266ms delay


Summary of that is that, contrary to a belief which I've seen espoused quite often lately, a rate of 8 is roughly equivalent to 1.16 lan latency (maybe a frame slower, hard to say super precisely without a lot more data). Increasing the latency on turn rate 12 to High seems to increase the variance without meaningfully changing the average latency (but is still faster than what lan latency would have been).

Thanks for the test, but I would not come to the same conclusion. A ~15% longer delay time is significant. Basically your data proves, that L2 is indeed right inbetween turn rate 8 and 12, so providing an additional turn rate 10 option would probably be useful to get the L2 setting back.
http://www.twitch.tv/cryoc
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
August 18 2017 15:31 GMT
#3936
On August 19 2017 00:17 L3gendary wrote:
Is afreeca tv really laggy for anyone else? I takes like a minute to load to begin with and then stutters all the time.

Switching it to high quality once it's loaded does the trick for me, maybe even medium if it's really bad.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
juvenal
Profile Joined July 2013
2448 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-19 03:50:15
August 18 2017 16:17 GMT
#3937
On August 18 2017 23:53 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 20:22 JWD[9] wrote:
On August 18 2017 20:09 quirinus wrote:
Guys, is it just me, or did they add acceleration to the screen scroll?

I can't move the screen precisely and quickly because of it.


I feel the same. Then again, yesterday I learned that you can set rally points with a simple right click, so I don't have a lot of confidence in what I think is true about BW anymore.


I'm just curious, but how were you setting rally points before?


r + click presumably.
Michael Probu
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 17:13:31
August 18 2017 16:46 GMT
#3938
On August 18 2017 20:24 GTR wrote:
I hope Blizzard can get some experienced map makers to fix some of the maps up in the ladder pool (if its going to be those maps for a while). Had a ramp vortex happen to me on Arcadia (had the game won but still chaffed about it).

Don't worry, I am already working on it. Lots of other things on my list of things that really ought to finally be done by now, though...

Unfortunately Blizzard never bothered to speak to any map makers (or listen to ones that reached out to them...), so as it looks like now remastered is but a setback to map-making. I guess we'll have to wait for ScmDraft to support HD graphics for a final verdict though... They seem unwilling to even change definite bugs, probably based on a shady notion that this could cause gameplay changes...

Looking at Arcadia: Yes, there are two ramp vortices: Top right an bottom left main. Ugly. Will do a quickfix. I guess edited map versions do not give ladder points though...

EDIT: Here's a quickfixed version of Arcadia 2.02. Quickfixed meaning all I did was solving the two ramp vortices while doing my utmost to avoid screwing up anything else. Whether a way outdated map such as Arcadia is really worth sinking any more work into is up for debate...
JungleTerrain
Profile Joined January 2012
Chile799 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 17:01:05
August 18 2017 16:59 GMT
#3939
On August 18 2017 20:24 GTR wrote:
I hope Blizzard can get some experienced map makers to fix some of the maps up in the ladder pool (if its going to be those maps for a while). Had a ramp vortex happen to me on Arcadia (had the game won but still chaffed about it).


reEdit: Freak got to it.

Aren't the maps serverside though? They are not in my starcraft map folders and neither is the whole [Popular Maps] folder.
www.broodwarmaps.net
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 17:13:08
August 18 2017 17:12 GMT
#3940
On August 19 2017 01:59 JungleTerrain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 20:24 GTR wrote:
I hope Blizzard can get some experienced map makers to fix some of the maps up in the ladder pool (if its going to be those maps for a while). Had a ramp vortex happen to me on Arcadia (had the game won but still chaffed about it).


reEdit: Freak got to it.

Aren't the maps serverside though? They are not in my starcraft map folders and neither is the whole [Popular Maps] folder.

The ladder maps are in the data files (just like the map files for the campaigns). Thats how they can add those band-aid graphics for ramps and bridges in (at least that seems too be the gist of what some of the more hacky folks over at SEN have figured out so far).
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