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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On May 06 2013 05:58 538 wrote:
making the championship season a best-of-the-best tournment selected from what... 28 to 40 people? Doesn't sound right.
You seem to have assumed that the championship season will only contain players who placed well in regular TLS seasons but this isn't true. We haven't decided on the details yet, but there will almost certainly be qualifiers for the championship season as well. Placing well in regular seasons will just give you a seeding advantage (still undetermined).
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Croatia9538 Posts
On May 06 2013 08:09 traceurling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 07:57 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 06 2013 02:44 GoShox wrote:On May 05 2013 22:24 thezanursic wrote:On May 05 2013 22:03 Sayle wrote:On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem. How exactly will you do that? Please just leave it to luck. Yeah can this be explained please? We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly. On May 06 2013 05:58 538 wrote:
I think there are too many seeded positions.
Basically there are 16 seeds for a 28 player tournament! That makes for a very repetitive list of players, and does not encourage new talent trying out, and also robs the viewers of potential "unknown underdog" stories, which are such a characteristic of the foreign scene.
Especially so with there being a championship event too (which I guess will be made up of the top finishers of these tournaments). Now that we have our 16 seeds, only 12 potentially new players will enter the pool for this second TLS, and at most an other 12 for the next - making the championship season a best-of-the-best tournment selected from what... 28 to 40 people? Doesn't sound right.
Would any organizer care to offer a reasoning for this system in place? Well TLS is in Seasons now, which means we need to have some sense of continuity between them as they're connected. TLS aims to provide regular competition for best players in the foreign BW scene for as long as we can. Unknown underdog stories are still possible, but I don't think by artificially increasing the chances for underdogs to succeed will be beneficial to the overall quality of games. I don't see how having a repetitive list of players, when those players are best in the scene, is a bad thing. Some unknown players are good, but it's just up to us how we want the ratio to be and right now we decided with this ratio. However, keep in mind that this is our only second season so it's possible we might consider changing this in upcoming seasons. Can we expect more than just four TLSs? Perhaps Four TLSs...every year!? :D also to satisfy the lesser known players, can you guys host smaller tournaments with a smaller prize pool where all the notables are not allowed to enter xD
Yeah, we plan to host TLSs for as long as we can and for as long as there are players playing this wonderful game.
And there are already plenty of tournaments and leagues where notables are not allowed to enter 
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On May 06 2013 07:57 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 02:44 GoShox wrote:On May 05 2013 22:24 thezanursic wrote:On May 05 2013 22:03 Sayle wrote:On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem. How exactly will you do that? Please just leave it to luck. Yeah can this be explained please? We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
Define "notable?"
I see six notable players on the registration page here (so far): http://www.teamliquid.net/tournaments/admin/?action=view&id=3504. Are they all going to be automatically seeded?
If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on?
Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless.
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I'm guessing in general "Notables" will be people you see in top level tournaments, Gambit's Cup, TLS, TSL, and have a decent TLPD rank
Also, if I put my race as something, but on the spot during the tournament want to play as a different race, is that allowed or do I have to stick with what I put/just put race picker?
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Wait, Sayle got a new icon?
HYPEHYPEHYPE
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Hmm...I was thinking about it, and I feel like having everyone from Ro16 onwards seeded is somewhat unfairish, I feel like Ro8 onwards would be a better standard...to reach Ro16 you only have to pass through one round, and while the Ro24 definitely was not "easy" to get out of, I feel like making it through two rounds is exponentially harder and meritable than one round...also, keep in mind four people were automatically seeded into the Ro16, and while these guys did make it far enough it wouldn't make a difference if you changed the rule, consider a hypothetical situation of some of those seeded not making it to Ro8 but now essentially get a free seed into next TLS without a win...maybe it'd be better to only have Ro8 onwards seeded as it still offers a lot of continuity, but still gives a lot of chances to "underdogs"...and maybe consider possibility of say giving people who did make it to Ro16 and initial 10 or 20 or something points to help them, but not too much...idk just throwing out ideas maybe to keep in mind for next TLS?
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so can we cast opening round games or only replays? (ro126/64/etc) I feel like there wont be that many to sign up this time for some reason but hopefully it is as surprising as the first one.
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On May 06 2013 08:26 GoShox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 07:57 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 06 2013 02:44 GoShox wrote:On May 05 2013 22:24 thezanursic wrote:On May 05 2013 22:03 Sayle wrote:On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem. How exactly will you do that? Please just leave it to luck. Yeah can this be explained please? We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly. Define "notable?" I see six notable players on the registration page here (so far): http://www.teamliquid.net/tournaments/admin/?action=view&id=3504. Are they all going to be automatically seeded? If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on? Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless.
I agree. I'm always on the noteable list but I suck. I'm sure there's plenty of way better players who aren't noteable by whatever standards they use to judge noteable players, pure random bracket would probably be better.
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Canada11519 Posts
So stoked for this. Going to be awesooooome!
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It might not be a ton of money I can donate, but if I wanted to contribute some money to the prize pool, who would I contact?
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In the past month I have played.... 2 matches for Gem League. I'm probably going to win this.
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On May 05 2013 20:13 Reason wrote:
Is everyone playing in this going to be like A-/+ ?
loool, no, the best few maybe but mostly much lower.
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Alright does anyone have training tips for me? I can prolly get ten hours of practice across this next week until the first two qualifiers...
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United Kingdom1715 Posts
On May 06 2013 15:45 traceurling wrote:
Alright does anyone have training tips for me? I can prolly get ten hours of practice across this next week until the first two qualifiers...
WATCH YOUR REPLAYS!!
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On May 06 2013 15:45 traceurling wrote:
Alright does anyone have training tips for me? I can prolly get ten hours of practice across this next week until the first two qualifiers...
grind 4pools on iccup
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Croatia9538 Posts
On May 06 2013 13:00 traceurling wrote:
Hmm...I was thinking about it, and I feel like having everyone from Ro16 onwards seeded is somewhat unfairish, I feel like Ro8 onwards would be a better standard...to reach Ro16 you only have to pass through one round, and while the Ro24 definitely was not "easy" to get out of, I feel like making it through two rounds is exponentially harder and meritable than one round...also, keep in mind four people were automatically seeded into the Ro16, and while these guys did make it far enough it wouldn't make a difference if you changed the rule, consider a hypothetical situation of some of those seeded not making it to Ro8 but now essentially get a free seed into next TLS without a win...maybe it'd be better to only have Ro8 onwards seeded as it still offers a lot of continuity, but still gives a lot of chances to "underdogs"...and maybe consider possibility of say giving people who did make it to Ro16 and initial 10 or 20 or something points to help them, but not too much...idk just throwing out ideas maybe to keep in mind for next TLS?
You're looking at it wrong. You're making it seem like Ro24 is in the middle of TLS or something when in fact it is a very first round of actual TLS. Qualifiers are not TLS, they're qualifiers. And the aim of TLS is to provide competition for best players in foreign BW scene. By having people who already qualified in the last TLS and reached Ro16, not play qualifiers again it's not really that big of an advantage. They already proved themselves as top players in the scene so making them seeded into the first round of TLS is just to ensure we have best players playing in actual TLS. Think of it as an invitational, but also with an open bracket on the side which still gives possibility for unknown underdogs to achieve their cinderella story.
On May 06 2013 13:02 dRaW wrote:
so can we cast opening round games or only replays? (ro126/64/etc) I feel like there wont be that many to sign up this time for some reason but hopefully it is as surprising as the first one.
You can cast from replays which we'll provide right after each round has been played as there are no observers allowed.
On May 06 2013 13:28 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 08:26 GoShox wrote:On May 06 2013 07:57 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 06 2013 02:44 GoShox wrote:On May 05 2013 22:24 thezanursic wrote:On May 05 2013 22:03 Sayle wrote:On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem. How exactly will you do that? Please just leave it to luck. Yeah can this be explained please? We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly. Define "notable?" I see six notable players on the registration page here (so far): http://www.teamliquid.net/tournaments/admin/?action=view&id=3504. Are they all going to be automatically seeded? If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on? Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless. I agree. I'm always on the noteable list but I suck. I'm sure there's plenty of way better players who aren't noteable by whatever standards they use to judge noteable players, pure random bracket would probably be better.
You were actually on the notable list because you were made notable in SC2 tournaments and the list is combined ^^
But anyways, I think you're overestimating the importance of notable players. Since the qualifiers are Bo1 Single Elimination up until the Ro8, we're just ensuring that the two best, most known, players won't knock out each other in Ro128 or whatever. The bracket is still 90% random and even seeded players can, and often do, get eliminated just because it's a bo1 and anything can happen.
To the guy you quoted and said "I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless." - this is just wrong. If arguably two best players who signed up for a qualifier meet each other in the first round of a Single Elimination Bo1 tournament, one of them is gonna get knocked out so it's literally impossible for him to rise up even though he might be better than the 98% of players in the tournament.
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On May 06 2013 08:17 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 08:09 traceurling wrote:On May 06 2013 07:57 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 06 2013 02:44 GoShox wrote:On May 05 2013 22:24 thezanursic wrote:On May 05 2013 22:03 Sayle wrote:On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem. How exactly will you do that? Please just leave it to luck. Yeah can this be explained please? We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly. On May 06 2013 05:58 538 wrote:
I think there are too many seeded positions.
Basically there are 16 seeds for a 28 player tournament! That makes for a very repetitive list of players, and does not encourage new talent trying out, and also robs the viewers of potential "unknown underdog" stories, which are such a characteristic of the foreign scene.
Especially so with there being a championship event too (which I guess will be made up of the top finishers of these tournaments). Now that we have our 16 seeds, only 12 potentially new players will enter the pool for this second TLS, and at most an other 12 for the next - making the championship season a best-of-the-best tournment selected from what... 28 to 40 people? Doesn't sound right.
Would any organizer care to offer a reasoning for this system in place? Well TLS is in Seasons now, which means we need to have some sense of continuity between them as they're connected. TLS aims to provide regular competition for best players in the foreign BW scene for as long as we can. Unknown underdog stories are still possible, but I don't think by artificially increasing the chances for underdogs to succeed will be beneficial to the overall quality of games. I don't see how having a repetitive list of players, when those players are best in the scene, is a bad thing. Some unknown players are good, but it's just up to us how we want the ratio to be and right now we decided with this ratio. However, keep in mind that this is our only second season so it's possible we might consider changing this in upcoming seasons. Can we expect more than just four TLSs? Perhaps Four TLSs...every year!? :D also to satisfy the lesser known players, can you guys host smaller tournaments with a smaller prize pool where all the notables are not allowed to enter xD Yeah, we plan to host TLSs for as long as we can and for as long as there are players playing this wonderful game. And there are already plenty of tournaments and leagues where notables are not allowed to enter
Best News!
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On May 06 2013 19:36 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 13:00 traceurling wrote:
Hmm...I was thinking about it, and I feel like having everyone from Ro16 onwards seeded is somewhat unfairish, I feel like Ro8 onwards would be a better standard...to reach Ro16 you only have to pass through one round, and while the Ro24 definitely was not "easy" to get out of, I feel like making it through two rounds is exponentially harder and meritable than one round...also, keep in mind four people were automatically seeded into the Ro16, and while these guys did make it far enough it wouldn't make a difference if you changed the rule, consider a hypothetical situation of some of those seeded not making it to Ro8 but now essentially get a free seed into next TLS without a win...maybe it'd be better to only have Ro8 onwards seeded as it still offers a lot of continuity, but still gives a lot of chances to "underdogs"...and maybe consider possibility of say giving people who did make it to Ro16 and initial 10 or 20 or something points to help them, but not too much...idk just throwing out ideas maybe to keep in mind for next TLS? You're looking at it wrong. You're making it seem like Ro24 is in the middle of TLS or something when in fact it is a very first round of actual TLS. Qualifiers are not TLS, they're qualifiers. And the aim of TLS is to provide competition for best players in foreign BW scene. By having people who already qualified in the last TLS and reached Ro16, not play qualifiers again it's not really that big of an advantage. They already proved themselves as top players in the scene so making them seeded into the first round of TLS is just to ensure we have best players playing in actual TLS. Think of it as an invitational, but also with an open bracket on the side which still gives possibility for unknown underdogs to achieve their cinderella story. Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 13:02 dRaW wrote:
so can we cast opening round games or only replays? (ro126/64/etc) I feel like there wont be that many to sign up this time for some reason but hopefully it is as surprising as the first one. You can cast from replays which we'll provide right after each round has been played as there are no observers allowed. Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 13:28 LuckyFool wrote:On May 06 2013 08:26 GoShox wrote:On May 06 2013 07:57 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 06 2013 02:44 GoShox wrote:On May 05 2013 22:24 thezanursic wrote:On May 05 2013 22:03 Sayle wrote:On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem. How exactly will you do that? Please just leave it to luck. Yeah can this be explained please? We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly. Define "notable?" I see six notable players on the registration page here (so far): http://www.teamliquid.net/tournaments/admin/?action=view&id=3504. Are they all going to be automatically seeded? If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on? Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless. I agree. I'm always on the noteable list but I suck. I'm sure there's plenty of way better players who aren't noteable by whatever standards they use to judge noteable players, pure random bracket would probably be better. You were actually on the notable list because you were made notable in SC2 tournaments and the list is combined ^^ But anyways, I think you're overestimating the importance of notable players. Since the qualifiers are Bo1 Single Elimination up until the Ro8, we're just ensuring that the two best, most known, players won't knock out each other in Ro128 or whatever. The bracket is still 90% random and even seeded players can, and often do, get eliminated just because it's a bo1 and anything can happen. To the guy you quoted and said "I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless." - this is just wrong. If arguably two best players who signed up for a qualifier meet each other in the first round of a Single Elimination Bo1 tournament, one of them is gonna get knocked out so it's literally impossible for him to rise up even though he might be better than the 98% of players in the tournament.
why would he be notable for his sc2 results? i dont see the connection between making the top players not bump into each other in ro128 and sc2 results.
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EPT
