Registration opens: Saturday, May 04 7:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Registration closes: Saturday, May 11 4:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Registration for the next two qualifiers will re-open next week
And now, the Legacy Continues...
Brood War is an eternal game. Released over 15 years ago, what was developed as the evolution in the RTS genre has become much more than just a simple pastime. Birthing an incredible community, it has inspired and ignited the passion of gamers world wide, men and women who dream of realizing the goal of being the best in their country and living up to their potential.
At the beginning of this year, TeamLiquid journeyed to the foreign Brood War community to once again nurture this passion, by announcing the creation of the TeamLiquid Starleague. Since then, we have completed the first leg of that journey, one that ended with well-reputed Zerg Sziky taking the crown. Now is the time for us to take the next step and gather the best the foreign community has to offer, to see who is the best among us. Now is the time to get ready for Season Two.
The action starts next weekend, and thanks to you all for taking this trip with us. We couldn't do it without you.
Prize Pool
The second season of TLS will have a prize pool of $500.
Remember that this will be followed by one more tournament of the same size and prizepool. Following this there will be a championship event with $2000 up for grabs!
Format
The second season of TeamLiquid Legacy Starleague will have a similar format to the first season. This time we'll only have four qualifiers, because players who reached Round of 16 in TLS S1 will be seeded to the Round of 24 this time around. Additionally, top four places from TLS Season 1 will be seeded directly into Round of 16 in Season 2.
Unlike TLS S1, now only winners of four qualifiers will be seeded directly to the Ro24. The remaining eight players from qualifiers will be filled based on points accumulated during the qualifiers. Joining the players who qualify through qualifiers will be 12 players who were at 5th-16th place in the TLS S1.
Another change from TLS S1,each Ro24 group will be played with best-of-1 and each Ro16 group will be played with best-of-3 Dual Tournament (ODT) format, seeding players into an eight man best-of-5 single-elimination bracket.
Qualifier Information
TLS S2 will have a total of four qualifiers. Next weekend we will be holding two qualifiers. The remaining two qualifiers will be held on the 18th and 19th. The games for this week's Qualifiers will be held:
Saturday, May 11 4:15pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Sunday, May 12 4:15pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Check-in for each Qualifier starts at 15:00 GMT (+00:00), and closes at 16:00 GMT (+00:00) on each day. Be sure to show up and be ready to play your matches!
As mentioned earlier, there are 12 places attainable through 4 open qualifiers. 4 positions for the winners of each qualifier, and another 8 to those who earn their place through the points system.
Remember that only one player makes it out of each qualifier this time so the finals are of extreme importance. There will be a one week break after the qualifiers and Round of 24. In this week, we'll do a group selection and decide tiebreakers, if necessary.
Full rules and details including how points and tiebreaks are handled can be found on the registration page, as well as posted below. It is your responsibility to read and adhere to these rules.
Schedule
We will have two weeks of qualifier events for the main portion of the tournament, followed by a short break before the Ro24 begins. The first qualifier begins May 11, so get ready.
Qualifier Dates
Qualifiers are played at 16:00 GMT (+00:00).
May 11. (Sat) - First qualifier May 12. (Sun) - Second qualifier May 18. (Sat) - Third qualifier May 19. (Sun) - Fourth qualifier
Tournament Broadcasts
Tournament broadcasts are at the 19:00 GMT (+00:00).
May 11. (Sat) - First qualifier May 12. (Sun) - Second qualifier May 18. (Sat) - Third qualifier May 19. (Sun) - Fourth qualifier Jun 01. (Sat) - Ro24 (Groups A and B) Jun 08. (Sat) - Ro24 (Groups C and D) Jun 15. (Sat) - Ro24 (Groups E and F) Jun 22. (Sat) - Ro16 (Group A) Jun 23. (Sun) - Ro16 (Group B) Jun 29. (Sat) - Ro16 (Group C) Jun 30. (Sun) - Ro16 (Group D) Jul 06. (Sat) - Ro8 Part I Jul 13. (Sun) - Ro8 Part II Jul 20. (Sat) - Ro4 Jul 27. (Sat) - Finals and 3rd place match
Tune in this weekend, Saturday, May 11 7:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) and Sunday, May 12 7:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), for the opening set of qualifiers. Time to continue the legacy.
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You can qualify for one of the 12 spots by doing the following: 1. Winning a qualifier tournament. 2. Placing in the Top 8 of non-winners (ranking points).
Ties are broken with a playoff.
Who can qualify for the 12 spots?
A player is eligible to play in the TLS if:
He grew up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene; OR
He currently resides in a location without a professional StarCraft scene and is not affiliated with a professional StarCraft team; AND
He does not have connection lag that would significantly impact quality of play
Sat May 11 - TLS Qualifier #1 Sun May 12 - TLS Qualifier #2 Sat May 18 - TLS Qualifier #3 Sun May 19 - TLS Qualifier #4
If I win a qualifier can I play in the others?
No, you cannot. You cannot secretly play under another name -- this will result in disqualification from the TLS and future TL events.
What about banned or previously disqualified users?
Banned users (for any reason) cannot enter these tournaments. Do not try to circumvent by creating smurf accounts. We will find you, and you will be disqualified from the TLS and future TL events.
Can I enter all four qualifiers?
Yes. Anyone who can enter one qualifier can enter all four. You do not have to play all four, but your chances increase as you play more.
What is the Map Pool for the TLS Season 2?
Qualifier tournaments and Ro24 will use map pool: Neo Jade, Match Point, Fighting Spirit.
Ro16 will use map pool: Wind & Cloud, Outsider, Fighting Spirit.
Rest of the tour will use all five maps, which are from the latest iCCup map pack (2.5) (except for Wind & Cloud which you must use the one provided in this zip file) and are available to download here.
What about hackers / cheaters / abusers?
Any sort of cheating may result in disqualification from the TLS and from future TL events. We take cheating very seriously, and we will hand out harsh punishments.
Why don't you allow everyone including Chinese/Koreans to participate?
The unfortunate truth is that we aren't prepared for the logistics of such a situation. We haven't run a tournament using this system in Brood War before and frankly we're rusty at administering these sorts of events. Having a large group of players who may have difficulty communicating with players or admins is not a scenario where we can guarantee success at this point. Plus, they have SOSPA and the SSL.
ODT? How does that work?
OGN Dual Tournament, the format where the group starts with players paired off into two sets of games. There is another set of games between the winners and the losers of the first games, with a final tie breaker match between who wins those. Text is a pretty poor way of describing this so check out this chart for clarification. The rest of the event itself will be styled very similar to the MSL.
Tournament will be held on the iCCup Server. Do not register unless you have an iCCup Account (you can get one for free right here) and can play on the iCCup server.
Official iCCup Channel: op Legacy-1. You're not required to join this channel to find your opponent, but you can find referees here if you need to ask any questions.
iCCup Name Changes: If you have changed your iCCup name you need to let the system know! Be sure to check your account details as people have been disqualified from previous TL events due to incorrect information.
iCCup Chat Commands: A short list of useful commands to aid those who are new to iCCup navigate and communicate with players/staff/refs:
/Whois [name] This command allows you look up if the person is online/offline, which channel or game they are in. E.g. /Whois Elegant
/W [name] [text] If you need to privately message or get in direct contact with someone simply type in /W followed by their name and then the message. E.g. /w TLSPlayer15 Are you ready to play?
/R [text] This command allows you to quickly reply to the last person who directly messaged you. E.g. /R Yes I am ready to play
/Join [channel] Allows you to join a channel. E.g. /Join op TSL
/DND [text] As you may have figured, this command prevents anyone from contacting you. Simply type in /DND followed by your quick note. E.g. /DND trying to qualify for TLS. To turn off DND, simply type /DND again.
Note: Spoilers Remember, due to the nature of this tournament, games will be cast from replays. As a result, there is a potential for spoilers.
Note: In game observers: No observers outside of designated TL casters. Their IDs will be listed in the rules here. If your opponent tries to have observers, you must stop the game and contact a referee. This means you can leave if he invites his friends or just starts the game. It is your responsibility not to allow it.
Format
Single-Elimination Tournament
Bracket will be displayed on TeamLiquid. Participants must log in to view opponent IDs to contact their opponents for matches.
Players must contact each other through iCCup chat and arrange a host (unless Ro4 or later).
From Ro8 on, TL referees will host the game.
Winners will report results and upload replays after each round.
If a game's results are disputed (both players report win), Tournament Referees will check replays and determine who advances.
Best of 1 until Round of 8.
Best of 3 in Ro8, Ro4 and Finals.
TLS Qualifier Rules
Players are permitted to stream or cast games up to the semifinals, streaming or spoiling the semifinals or final series will result in disqualification.
Players may not have any stream open in the background when playing.
Any violation of TLS Qualifier Tournament Rules may result in game forfeit and future suspension from TLS Qualifiers and other TL events.
No cheating in any way. This includes any sort of hack or illegal program and receiving messages from friends watching the stream. This also includes account sharing or playing under an ID that you did not register under.
Players must set status to /dnd during tournament matches.
Players must arrive within 10 minutes of the end of the previous round. After 10 minutes, every 10 minutes is a game loss for the player who is not present. Ex: with one player present for 20 minutes, 1-0, 30 minutes, 2-0.
If your opponent is not present for 20 minutes, please PM TLTourAdmin.
Players may change race between games.
Players may not play in another tournament that conflicts with TLS Qualifier play time. Referees may disqualify players that delay the TLS Qualifier due to scheduling conflicts.
Referees may warn and disqualify players for chat violations, including excessive or abusive insults toward players, observers, or referees.
Maps and Host Rules
Games will be hosted on one of the approved maps from the iCCup map pack.
In a Bo1 games, host must create on designated map for that round.
In a Bo3 games, referee will host all three games in the exact order posted below.
Maps cannot be played twice in a series.
It is the player's responsibility to check the map pool. If a player protests an incorrect map after playing a game on it, the game will not be replayed.
If neither of the players can host, contact the referee who will host the game for you.
Map Pool: Qualifiers will use three maps that will be interchanged each round (in Bo3 games all three maps will be used). Map order for each round is given below:
Round 1 - Ro512 (Bo1) - Neo Jade Round 2 - Ro256 (Bo1) - Match Point Round 3 - Ro128 (Bo1) - Fighting Spirit Round 4 - Ro64 (Bo1) - Neo Jade Round 5 - Ro32 (Bo1) - Match Point Round 6 - Ro16 (Bo1) - Fighting Spirit Round 7 - Ro8 (Bo3) - Neo Jade, Match Point, Fighting Spirit Round 8 - Ro4 (Bo3) - Neo Jade, Match Point, Fighting Spirit Round 9 - Finals (Bo3) - Neo Jade, Match Point, Fighting Spirit
Download: The maps used in this tournament are from the latest iCCup map pack (2.5) (except for Wind & Cloud which you must use the one provided in this zip file) and are available to download here.
Disconnects and Lag
Due to lag conflicts, we may swap players in the bracket to resolve issues. This means that even if you receive a bye you may be swapped in for a match that round. This will not increase your number of games played.
If your opponent is disconnecting, players should take a screenshot of the lag screen and contact the tournament referee.
If a disconnect happens in the first five minutes and there has been no player-opponent contact, game will be replayed.
In a Bo1, if a disconnect happens after player-opponent contact, disconnecting player may receive a loss. The Referee will make the final decision after reviewing the screenshot and replay.
In a Bo3, if a disconnect happens after player-contact, player must contact Referee immediately and Referee will decide how to proceed after reviewing the evidence.
Referees and Tournament Administrators reserve the right to overturn results or award wins based on evidence they see.
In a disconnecting situation, both players can agree to a regame.
If there is persistent unplayable lag (lag screen comes up more than once in a short time), players must contact a Referee who will decide how to proceed.
Coverage and Observer Rules
TL will officially cast both semifinals and the finals.
No observers are allowed in games other than those designated by TL.
TL will designate "approved" observers who will be allowed to observe and broadcast games.
TL referees are also allowed to be in game.
There will only be a maximum of one observer in each match.
If a non-approved observer joins the game and the host starts, game does not count.
If game lags with an approved observer in game, that observer must leave at the request of a player. If a TL referee is in game, he will make this decision.
Observers and broadcasters are subject to the same rules for cheating and abuse as players. TL may suspend observers from future TL events if violations occur.
Any rules not covered by these posts will be handled according to the TSL handbook
Nice! good to see that the map pool has been freshened up a tad. Will be nice to see some fallen season 1 players try to find redemption and hopefully some fresh faces as well. HYPE
Fuck I looked at the dates first qualifier is in the middle of AP Testing and second one is on prom night fuckfuckfuckfuck EDIT: How long does each qualifier usually last?
On May 05 2013 10:04 traceurling wrote: Fuck I looked at the dates first qualifier is in the middle of AP Testing and second one is on prom night fuckfuckfuckfuckYESYESYESYES
SOLVED! 1. Take the college course, college is better anyway 2. Bring a laptop to prom.
On May 05 2013 10:04 traceurling wrote: Fuck I looked at the dates first qualifier is in the middle of AP Testing and second one is on prom night fuckfuckfuckfuckYESYESYESYES
SOLVED! 1. Take the college course, college is better anyway 2. Bring a laptop to prom.
I'm Asian tho I have to do well on these lololol I like how you think Nice to see different maps I dont really like Wind and Cloud but oh wells...nice to see a 2 and3 player map, all 4 player maps are boring... Outsider is pretty wacky should have some lolzy games Also how long does each qualifier last roughly? 4-ish hours?
Oh man! For the past couple days I was debating bumping one of the old threads asking about this. Super pumped :D! Can't wait for some more foreign BW.
Also, what are the chances of BisuDagger getting a guest commentating spot for some of these? He's been doing great work with the SSL.
Just watched/noticed the video it's awesome haha I wanted to make a vid but was too lazy xD Also, can we pleasepleaseplease get a poster/shirt? Like maybe just make a poster/shirt for TLS 2013 or something if it's too much trouble to make one for every season
On May 05 2013 14:20 PimpestPlays wrote: Wow Game does such a good job finding sponsors for these tournaments. Cheers to his dedication!
Since when was Game involved with this?
He's not. These tournaments are purely organized by TL staff, the likes of which are actually in the lovely credits at the end of Statos' Season One highlight video.
On May 05 2013 14:20 PimpestPlays wrote: Wow Game does such a good job finding sponsors for these tournaments. Cheers to his dedication!
Since when was Game involved with this?
Account created today, 3 posts, one which you quoted and 1 raging about gecko not allowing the other doty to do iCCup attack...I'm calling troll/scrub without balls to post on main account
When I saw all of the staff predictions for who would win each round it was obvious they didn't know the players from Adam. It is really sad when the most knowledgeable of the bunch is the caster Sayle. It almost seemed like they were trolling in their picks to win matchups. Eonzerg is bad, etc, he isn't top tier.
On May 05 2013 10:04 traceurling wrote: Fuck I looked at the dates first qualifier is in the middle of AP Testing and second one is on prom night fuckfuckfuckfuckYESYESYESYES
SOLVED! 1. Take the college course, college is better anyway 2. Bring a laptop to prom.
I'm Asian tho I have to do well on these lololol I like how you think Nice to see different maps I dont really like Wind and Cloud but oh wells...nice to see a 2 and3 player map, all 4 player maps are boring... Outsider is pretty wacky should have some lolzy games Also how long does each qualifier last roughly? 4-ish hours?
Depends how far you go. If you lose in first game to a cheese, it might last 10 minutes for you
On May 05 2013 12:51 xboi209 wrote: The latest mappack is actually 2.5 not 2.4
Yeah, the maps in mappack are from 2.5, but I forgot to edit the text so it says 2.4 like it did in TLS S1.
On May 05 2013 17:34 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Any changes for the point system? I think top gets too many points. Finishing second pretty much guarantees survival without playing other qualifiers.
Yes, there are some big changes in point system. We modeled it after TSL4 point system where second place gets 100 points, but we also came to the same conclusion as you so we lowered it down considerably since we only have four qualifiers. This way getting 9th-16th place four times will earn you 84 points which is still below getting 2nd once, so you would need to reach higher place than 9th at least once. And getting a second place is kinda a big deal. Out of four qualifiers, you have very good chances of qualifying just by getting second place once, but still not 100% certain so you ought to play in more qualifiers to solidify it.
On May 05 2013 10:04 traceurling wrote: Fuck I looked at the dates first qualifier is in the middle of AP Testing and second one is on prom night fuckfuckfuckfuckYESYESYESYES
SOLVED! 1. Take the college course, college is better anyway 2. Bring a laptop to prom.
I'm Asian tho I have to do well on these lololol I like how you think Nice to see different maps I dont really like Wind and Cloud but oh wells...nice to see a 2 and3 player map, all 4 player maps are boring... Outsider is pretty wacky should have some lolzy games Also how long does each qualifier last roughly? 4-ish hours?
Depends how far you go. If you lose in first game to a cheese, it might last 10 minutes for you
On May 05 2013 17:34 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Any changes for the point system? I think top gets too many points. Finishing second pretty much guarantees survival without playing other qualifiers.
Yes, there are some big changes in point system. We modeled it after TSL4 point system where second place gets 100 points, but we also came to the same conclusion as you so we lowered it down considerably since we only have four qualifiers. This way getting 9th-16th place four times will earn you 84 points which is still below getting 2nd once, so you would need to reach higher place than 9th at least once. And getting a second place is kinda a big deal. Out of four qualifiers, you have very good chances of qualifying just by getting second place once, but still not 100% certain so you ought to play in more qualifiers to solidify it.
TLS1 cut was around 85 points with 6 qualifiers (though it was 12 places). So if we keep TLS2 points its going to be around 80 or lower depending if 2nd place finisher manages to win other qualifier.
My concern is that you shouldn't qualify with just 1 good run (unless you win) but with steady participation. I guess we wil see and change it for TLS3 then.
On May 05 2013 10:04 traceurling wrote: Fuck I looked at the dates first qualifier is in the middle of AP Testing and second one is on prom night fuckfuckfuckfuckYESYESYESYES
SOLVED! 1. Take the college course, college is better anyway 2. Bring a laptop to prom.
I'm Asian tho I have to do well on these lololol I like how you think Nice to see different maps I dont really like Wind and Cloud but oh wells...nice to see a 2 and3 player map, all 4 player maps are boring... Outsider is pretty wacky should have some lolzy games Also how long does each qualifier last roughly? 4-ish hours?
Depends how far you go. If you lose in first game to a cheese, it might last 10 minutes for you
On May 05 2013 12:51 xboi209 wrote: The latest mappack is actually 2.5 not 2.4
Yeah, the maps in mappack are from 2.5, but I forgot to edit the text so it says 2.4 like it did in TLS S1.
On May 05 2013 17:34 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Any changes for the point system? I think top gets too many points. Finishing second pretty much guarantees survival without playing other qualifiers.
Yes, there are some big changes in point system. We modeled it after TSL4 point system where second place gets 100 points, but we also came to the same conclusion as you so we lowered it down considerably since we only have four qualifiers. This way getting 9th-16th place four times will earn you 84 points which is still below getting 2nd once, so you would need to reach higher place than 9th at least once. And getting a second place is kinda a big deal. Out of four qualifiers, you have very good chances of qualifying just by getting second place once, but still not 100% certain so you ought to play in more qualifiers to solidify it.
TLS1 cut was around 85 points with 6 qualifiers (though it was 12 places). So if we keep TLS2 points its going to be around 80 or lower depending if 2nd place finisher manages to win other qualifier.
My concern is that you shouldn't qualify with just 1 good run (unless you win) but with steady participation. I guess we wil see and change it for TLS3 then.
But you're forgetting that there are only four qualifiers. There's no much steadiness to be seen out of only four qualifiers, it's a too small of a sample size. Getting second place in one out of those four is a pretty big deal. As I mentioned in above example, do you think it's harder to reach 9th-16th place four times or get 2nd place one time out of four? I think they're pretty similar, but getting 2nd place carries more weight.
On May 05 2013 20:13 Reason wrote: Is everyone playing in this going to be like A-/+ ?
Qualifiers are opened to players of all skill level and there are plenty of people participating just for the fun of it, even if they have no chance of advancing.
On May 05 2013 10:04 traceurling wrote: Fuck I looked at the dates first qualifier is in the middle of AP Testing and second one is on prom night fuckfuckfuckfuckYESYESYESYES
SOLVED! 1. Take the college course, college is better anyway 2. Bring a laptop to prom.
I'm Asian tho I have to do well on these lololol I like how you think Nice to see different maps I dont really like Wind and Cloud but oh wells...nice to see a 2 and3 player map, all 4 player maps are boring... Outsider is pretty wacky should have some lolzy games Also how long does each qualifier last roughly? 4-ish hours?
Depends how far you go. If you lose in first game to a cheese, it might last 10 minutes for you
On May 05 2013 12:51 xboi209 wrote: The latest mappack is actually 2.5 not 2.4
Yeah, the maps in mappack are from 2.5, but I forgot to edit the text so it says 2.4 like it did in TLS S1.
On May 05 2013 17:34 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Any changes for the point system? I think top gets too many points. Finishing second pretty much guarantees survival without playing other qualifiers.
Yes, there are some big changes in point system. We modeled it after TSL4 point system where second place gets 100 points, but we also came to the same conclusion as you so we lowered it down considerably since we only have four qualifiers. This way getting 9th-16th place four times will earn you 84 points which is still below getting 2nd once, so you would need to reach higher place than 9th at least once. And getting a second place is kinda a big deal. Out of four qualifiers, you have very good chances of qualifying just by getting second place once, but still not 100% certain so you ought to play in more qualifiers to solidify it.
TLS1 cut was around 85 points with 6 qualifiers (though it was 12 places). So if we keep TLS2 points its going to be around 80 or lower depending if 2nd place finisher manages to win other qualifier.
My concern is that you shouldn't qualify with just 1 good run (unless you win) but with steady participation. I guess we wil see and change it for TLS3 then.
While I do want to encourage more qualifier participation, I disagree with that general idea. It is far easier to luck your way into the Ro16 of a bunch of qualifiers than it is to get 2nd in just one of them. No offence to EnjoYmE, but he is a perfect example of that in TLS1. He's B- max and didn't really deserve to qualify over A- players like Octzerg and fLip, but just by playing in all of the quals and getting a few lucky brackets, he made it through.
On May 05 2013 21:22 Bakuryu wrote: thx for telling us the maps beforehand. can somebody comfirm that i dont need to qualify because im seeded in ro24?
Was looking forward to this a lot, but I feel like postponing this by two weekends would have given a lot more people a chance to qualify and view this, that are doing exams at this time.
Oh well guess I'll see the full tourny when it comes about!
On May 05 2013 10:04 traceurling wrote: Fuck I looked at the dates first qualifier is in the middle of AP Testing and second one is on prom night fuckfuckfuckfuckYESYESYESYES
SOLVED! 1. Take the college course, college is better anyway 2. Bring a laptop to prom.
I'm Asian tho I have to do well on these lololol I like how you think Nice to see different maps I dont really like Wind and Cloud but oh wells...nice to see a 2 and3 player map, all 4 player maps are boring... Outsider is pretty wacky should have some lolzy games Also how long does each qualifier last roughly? 4-ish hours?
Depends how far you go. If you lose in first game to a cheese, it might last 10 minutes for you
On May 05 2013 12:51 xboi209 wrote: The latest mappack is actually 2.5 not 2.4
Yeah, the maps in mappack are from 2.5, but I forgot to edit the text so it says 2.4 like it did in TLS S1.
On May 05 2013 17:34 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Any changes for the point system? I think top gets too many points. Finishing second pretty much guarantees survival without playing other qualifiers.
Yes, there are some big changes in point system. We modeled it after TSL4 point system where second place gets 100 points, but we also came to the same conclusion as you so we lowered it down considerably since we only have four qualifiers. This way getting 9th-16th place four times will earn you 84 points which is still below getting 2nd once, so you would need to reach higher place than 9th at least once. And getting a second place is kinda a big deal. Out of four qualifiers, you have very good chances of qualifying just by getting second place once, but still not 100% certain so you ought to play in more qualifiers to solidify it.
TLS1 cut was around 85 points with 6 qualifiers (though it was 12 places). So if we keep TLS2 points its going to be around 80 or lower depending if 2nd place finisher manages to win other qualifier.
My concern is that you shouldn't qualify with just 1 good run (unless you win) but with steady participation. I guess we wil see and change it for TLS3 then.
While I do want to encourage more qualifier participation, I disagree with that general idea. It is far easier to luck your way into the Ro16 of a bunch of qualifiers than it is to get 2nd in just one of them. No offence to EnjoYmE, but he is a perfect example of that in TLS1. He's B- max and didn't really deserve to qualify over A- players like Octzerg and fLip, but just by playing in all of the quals and getting a few lucky brackets, he made it through.
Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
My worry is that in last qualifier we are going to have only few actual spots left for grabs because TOP4 finish most likely decides that time who goes through.
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: My worry is that in last qualifier we are going to have only few actual spots left for grabs because TOP4 finish most likely decides that time who goes through.
I don't really understand this point. There should be less variation in who qualifies once you get to the last qualifier. That will be true using any (sensible) point system. Are you saying someone should randomly be able to qualify with a Ro16 finish in the last qualifier?
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: My worry is that in last qualifier we are going to have only few actual spots left for grabs because TOP4 finish most likely decides that time who goes through.
I don't really understand this point. There should be less variation in who qualifies once you get to the last qualifier. That will be true using any (sensible) point system. Are you saying someone should randomly be able to qualify with a Ro16 finish in the last qualifier?
Then if players are seeded then there should be no worries of having lucky/easy brackets.
Worst case scenario is that 4 qualified players are 2nd place finishers without participating other qualifiers. There needs to be somekind of longetivity who qualifies.
But lets not argue this anymore, we will see how last qualifier day will come and how many has qualified without needing to participate at all.
On May 05 2013 22:27 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Worst case scenario is that 4 qualified players are 2nd place finishers without participating other qualifiers. There needs to be somekind of longetivity who qualifies.
For a "worst case" that doesn't seem bad at all. Essentially, that would just make these qualifiers exactly the same as the TLS1 qualifiers where top 2 automatically qualified. We want to reward people for being good and winning, not for having the most free time.
On May 05 2013 22:27 Too_MuchZerg wrote: But lets not argue this anymore, we will see how last qualifier day will come and how many has qualified without needing to participate at all.
Again, I don't really see a problem here. I would assume that only the last 2-3 slots for points would be contested at the time of the last qualifier. So on the last day, we would already have 3 players qualified from wins and 5-6 qualified from points, leaving 3-4 slots to play for (one for the win and 2-3 from points). Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Dammit why are you guys so smart my whole plan was to cheese my way to Ro16 four times XD I guess I should take this seriously as a chance to practice with get roflstomped by high level players how many people participated in each Qualifier last time? Should I expect cheese throughout the whole tournament? Is it possible to make it kinda far without running into a not-D level player? maybe I can magically improve to A level in one week :o
On May 05 2013 22:57 traceurling wrote: Dammit why are you guys so smart my whole plan was to cheese my way to Ro16 four times XD I guess I should take this seriously as a chance to practice with get roflstomped by high level players how many people participated in each Qualifier last time? Should I expect cheese throughout the whole tournament? Is it possible to make it kinda far without running into a not-D level player? maybe I can magically improve to A level in one week :o
There were on average 100 players playing in qualifiers.
And it's bo1 all up until Ro8, so everything's possible
On May 05 2013 22:57 traceurling wrote: Dammit why are you guys so smart my whole plan was to cheese my way to Ro16 four times XD I guess I should take this seriously as a chance to practice with get roflstomped by high level players how many people participated in each Qualifier last time? Should I expect cheese throughout the whole tournament? Is it possible to make it kinda far without running into a not-D level player? maybe I can magically improve to A level in one week :o
There were on average 100 players playing in qualifiers.
And it's bo1 all up until Ro8, so everything's possible
So I'm guessing the tournament will start at Ro128 or Ro256 then? Also is it most likely going to last 3-4 hours for the winner since cast begins 3 hours later? Damn I just realized its two qualifiers per weekend gotta practice hard...maybe I can 4 pool my way all the way to Ro8 this is totally going to fuck me over for ap testing...also this will be 9am for west coast America, correct? Another tourney thread said something about daylight savings screwing up the time possibly, just making sure its correct here...
I don't think I even need to use caps lock to highlight the awesomeness of TLS. The production value and the quality of play last season was absolutely astounding, and I don't think season 2 will disappoint in either of those areas.
glhfgg
P.S. If you're a non-zerg player, please get to the finals. Thank you.
On May 05 2013 10:04 traceurling wrote: Fuck I looked at the dates first qualifier is in the middle of AP Testing and second one is on prom night fuckfuckfuckfuckYESYESYESYES
SOLVED! 1. Take the college course, college is better anyway 2. Bring a laptop to prom.
I'm Asian tho I have to do well on these lololol I like how you think Nice to see different maps I dont really like Wind and Cloud but oh wells...nice to see a 2 and3 player map, all 4 player maps are boring... Outsider is pretty wacky should have some lolzy games Also how long does each qualifier last roughly? 4-ish hours?
Depends how far you go. If you lose in first game to a cheese, it might last 10 minutes for you
On May 05 2013 12:51 xboi209 wrote: The latest mappack is actually 2.5 not 2.4
Yeah, the maps in mappack are from 2.5, but I forgot to edit the text so it says 2.4 like it did in TLS S1.
On May 05 2013 17:34 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Any changes for the point system? I think top gets too many points. Finishing second pretty much guarantees survival without playing other qualifiers.
Yes, there are some big changes in point system. We modeled it after TSL4 point system where second place gets 100 points, but we also came to the same conclusion as you so we lowered it down considerably since we only have four qualifiers. This way getting 9th-16th place four times will earn you 84 points which is still below getting 2nd once, so you would need to reach higher place than 9th at least once. And getting a second place is kinda a big deal. Out of four qualifiers, you have very good chances of qualifying just by getting second place once, but still not 100% certain so you ought to play in more qualifiers to solidify it.
TLS1 cut was around 85 points with 6 qualifiers (though it was 12 places). So if we keep TLS2 points its going to be around 80 or lower depending if 2nd place finisher manages to win other qualifier.
My concern is that you shouldn't qualify with just 1 good run (unless you win) but with steady participation. I guess we wil see and change it for TLS3 then.
While I do want to encourage more qualifier participation, I disagree with that general idea. It is far easier to luck your way into the Ro16 of a bunch of qualifiers than it is to get 2nd in just one of them. No offence to EnjoYmE, but he is a perfect example of that in TLS1. He's B- max and didn't really deserve to qualify over A- players like Octzerg and fLip, but just by playing in all of the quals and getting a few lucky brackets, he made it through.
I think you've just missed an opportunity. I mean Enjoyme is a B- player, you are a B- player. Enjoyme is a protoss player, you are a protoss player. Enjoyme qualified for the TLS,...
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
Basically there are 16 seeds for a 28 player tournament! That makes for a very repetitive list of players, and does not encourage new talent trying out, and also robs the viewers of potential "unknown underdog" stories, which are such a characteristic of the foreign scene. Especially so with there being a championship event too (which I guess will be made up of the top finishers of these tournaments). Now that we have our 16 seeds, only 12 potentially new players will enter the pool for this second TLS, and at most an other 12 for the next - making the championship season a best-of-the-best tournment selected from what... 28 to 40 people? Doesn't sound right.
Would any organizer care to offer a reasoning for this system in place?
It is somewhat unfair to the "underdog" but what Starcraft encourages is finding the best, most talented players out there and the TLS is for showcasing the best foreigners there are, the current format will encourage the top players to be playing against each other instead of lesser known people which is the idea...I think I typed that coherently...the new people will have to make their debut in smaller leagues :\ Also, even if those people weren't seeded I would guess like 10 of them at least would qualify on their own so not a big differenxe
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
How exactly will you do that?
Please just leave it to luck.
Yeah can this be explained please?
We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
On May 06 2013 05:58 538 wrote: I think there are too many seeded positions.
Basically there are 16 seeds for a 28 player tournament! That makes for a very repetitive list of players, and does not encourage new talent trying out, and also robs the viewers of potential "unknown underdog" stories, which are such a characteristic of the foreign scene. Especially so with there being a championship event too (which I guess will be made up of the top finishers of these tournaments). Now that we have our 16 seeds, only 12 potentially new players will enter the pool for this second TLS, and at most an other 12 for the next - making the championship season a best-of-the-best tournment selected from what... 28 to 40 people? Doesn't sound right.
Would any organizer care to offer a reasoning for this system in place?
Well TLS is in Seasons now, which means we need to have some sense of continuity between them as they're connected. TLS aims to provide regular competition for best players in the foreign BW scene for as long as we can. Unknown underdog stories are still possible, but I don't think by artificially increasing the chances for underdogs to succeed will be beneficial to the overall quality of games.
I don't see how having a repetitive list of players, when those players are best in the scene, is a bad thing. Some unknown players are good, but it's just up to us how we want the ratio to be and right now we decided with this ratio. However, keep in mind that this is our only second season so it's possible we might consider changing this in upcoming seasons.
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
How exactly will you do that?
Please just leave it to luck.
Yeah can this be explained please?
We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
On May 06 2013 05:58 538 wrote: I think there are too many seeded positions.
Basically there are 16 seeds for a 28 player tournament! That makes for a very repetitive list of players, and does not encourage new talent trying out, and also robs the viewers of potential "unknown underdog" stories, which are such a characteristic of the foreign scene. Especially so with there being a championship event too (which I guess will be made up of the top finishers of these tournaments). Now that we have our 16 seeds, only 12 potentially new players will enter the pool for this second TLS, and at most an other 12 for the next - making the championship season a best-of-the-best tournment selected from what... 28 to 40 people? Doesn't sound right.
Would any organizer care to offer a reasoning for this system in place?
Well TLS is in Seasons now, which means we need to have some sense of continuity between them as they're connected. TLS aims to provide regular competition for best players in the foreign BW scene for as long as we can. Unknown underdog stories are still possible, but I don't think by artificially increasing the chances for underdogs to succeed will be beneficial to the overall quality of games.
I don't see how having a repetitive list of players, when those players are best in the scene, is a bad thing. Some unknown players are good, but it's just up to us how we want the ratio to be and right now we decided with this ratio. However, keep in mind that this is our only second season so it's possible we might consider changing this in upcoming seasons.
Can we expect more than just four TLSs? Perhaps Four TLSs...every year!? :D also to satisfy the lesser known players, can you guys host smaller tournaments with a smaller prize pool where all the notables are not allowed to enter xD
On May 06 2013 05:58 538 wrote: making the championship season a best-of-the-best tournment selected from what... 28 to 40 people? Doesn't sound right.
You seem to have assumed that the championship season will only contain players who placed well in regular TLS seasons but this isn't true. We haven't decided on the details yet, but there will almost certainly be qualifiers for the championship season as well. Placing well in regular seasons will just give you a seeding advantage (still undetermined).
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
How exactly will you do that?
Please just leave it to luck.
Yeah can this be explained please?
We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
On May 06 2013 05:58 538 wrote: I think there are too many seeded positions.
Basically there are 16 seeds for a 28 player tournament! That makes for a very repetitive list of players, and does not encourage new talent trying out, and also robs the viewers of potential "unknown underdog" stories, which are such a characteristic of the foreign scene. Especially so with there being a championship event too (which I guess will be made up of the top finishers of these tournaments). Now that we have our 16 seeds, only 12 potentially new players will enter the pool for this second TLS, and at most an other 12 for the next - making the championship season a best-of-the-best tournment selected from what... 28 to 40 people? Doesn't sound right.
Would any organizer care to offer a reasoning for this system in place?
Well TLS is in Seasons now, which means we need to have some sense of continuity between them as they're connected. TLS aims to provide regular competition for best players in the foreign BW scene for as long as we can. Unknown underdog stories are still possible, but I don't think by artificially increasing the chances for underdogs to succeed will be beneficial to the overall quality of games.
I don't see how having a repetitive list of players, when those players are best in the scene, is a bad thing. Some unknown players are good, but it's just up to us how we want the ratio to be and right now we decided with this ratio. However, keep in mind that this is our only second season so it's possible we might consider changing this in upcoming seasons.
Can we expect more than just four TLSs? Perhaps Four TLSs...every year!? :D also to satisfy the lesser known players, can you guys host smaller tournaments with a smaller prize pool where all the notables are not allowed to enter xD
Yeah, we plan to host TLSs for as long as we can and for as long as there are players playing this wonderful game.
And there are already plenty of tournaments and leagues where notables are not allowed to enter
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
How exactly will you do that?
Please just leave it to luck.
Yeah can this be explained please?
We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on?
Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless.
I'm guessing in general "Notables" will be people you see in top level tournaments, Gambit's Cup, TLS, TSL, and have a decent TLPD rank Also, if I put my race as something, but on the spot during the tournament want to play as a different race, is that allowed or do I have to stick with what I put/just put race picker?
Hmm...I was thinking about it, and I feel like having everyone from Ro16 onwards seeded is somewhat unfairish, I feel like Ro8 onwards would be a better standard...to reach Ro16 you only have to pass through one round, and while the Ro24 definitely was not "easy" to get out of, I feel like making it through two rounds is exponentially harder and meritable than one round...also, keep in mind four people were automatically seeded into the Ro16, and while these guys did make it far enough it wouldn't make a difference if you changed the rule, consider a hypothetical situation of some of those seeded not making it to Ro8 but now essentially get a free seed into next TLS without a win...maybe it'd be better to only have Ro8 onwards seeded as it still offers a lot of continuity, but still gives a lot of chances to "underdogs"...and maybe consider possibility of say giving people who did make it to Ro16 and initial 10 or 20 or something points to help them, but not too much...idk just throwing out ideas maybe to keep in mind for next TLS?
so can we cast opening round games or only replays? (ro126/64/etc) I feel like there wont be that many to sign up this time for some reason but hopefully it is as surprising as the first one.
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
How exactly will you do that?
Please just leave it to luck.
Yeah can this be explained please?
We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on?
Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless.
I agree. I'm always on the noteable list but I suck. I'm sure there's plenty of way better players who aren't noteable by whatever standards they use to judge noteable players, pure random bracket would probably be better.
On May 06 2013 15:45 traceurling wrote: Alright does anyone have training tips for me? I can prolly get ten hours of practice across this next week until the first two qualifiers...
On May 06 2013 15:45 traceurling wrote: Alright does anyone have training tips for me? I can prolly get ten hours of practice across this next week until the first two qualifiers...
On May 06 2013 13:00 traceurling wrote: Hmm...I was thinking about it, and I feel like having everyone from Ro16 onwards seeded is somewhat unfairish, I feel like Ro8 onwards would be a better standard...to reach Ro16 you only have to pass through one round, and while the Ro24 definitely was not "easy" to get out of, I feel like making it through two rounds is exponentially harder and meritable than one round...also, keep in mind four people were automatically seeded into the Ro16, and while these guys did make it far enough it wouldn't make a difference if you changed the rule, consider a hypothetical situation of some of those seeded not making it to Ro8 but now essentially get a free seed into next TLS without a win...maybe it'd be better to only have Ro8 onwards seeded as it still offers a lot of continuity, but still gives a lot of chances to "underdogs"...and maybe consider possibility of say giving people who did make it to Ro16 and initial 10 or 20 or something points to help them, but not too much...idk just throwing out ideas maybe to keep in mind for next TLS?
You're looking at it wrong. You're making it seem like Ro24 is in the middle of TLS or something when in fact it is a very first round of actual TLS. Qualifiers are not TLS, they're qualifiers. And the aim of TLS is to provide competition for best players in foreign BW scene. By having people who already qualified in the last TLS and reached Ro16, not play qualifiers again it's not really that big of an advantage. They already proved themselves as top players in the scene so making them seeded into the first round of TLS is just to ensure we have best players playing in actual TLS. Think of it as an invitational, but also with an open bracket on the side which still gives possibility for unknown underdogs to achieve their cinderella story.
On May 06 2013 13:02 dRaW wrote: so can we cast opening round games or only replays? (ro126/64/etc) I feel like there wont be that many to sign up this time for some reason but hopefully it is as surprising as the first one.
You can cast from replays which we'll provide right after each round has been played as there are no observers allowed.
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
How exactly will you do that?
Please just leave it to luck.
Yeah can this be explained please?
We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on?
Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless.
I agree. I'm always on the noteable list but I suck. I'm sure there's plenty of way better players who aren't noteable by whatever standards they use to judge noteable players, pure random bracket would probably be better.
You were actually on the notable list because you were made notable in SC2 tournaments and the list is combined ^^
But anyways, I think you're overestimating the importance of notable players. Since the qualifiers are Bo1 Single Elimination up until the Ro8, we're just ensuring that the two best, most known, players won't knock out each other in Ro128 or whatever. The bracket is still 90% random and even seeded players can, and often do, get eliminated just because it's a bo1 and anything can happen.
To the guy you quoted and said "I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless." - this is just wrong. If arguably two best players who signed up for a qualifier meet each other in the first round of a Single Elimination Bo1 tournament, one of them is gonna get knocked out so it's literally impossible for him to rise up even though he might be better than the 98% of players in the tournament.
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
How exactly will you do that?
Please just leave it to luck.
Yeah can this be explained please?
We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
On May 06 2013 05:58 538 wrote: I think there are too many seeded positions.
Basically there are 16 seeds for a 28 player tournament! That makes for a very repetitive list of players, and does not encourage new talent trying out, and also robs the viewers of potential "unknown underdog" stories, which are such a characteristic of the foreign scene. Especially so with there being a championship event too (which I guess will be made up of the top finishers of these tournaments). Now that we have our 16 seeds, only 12 potentially new players will enter the pool for this second TLS, and at most an other 12 for the next - making the championship season a best-of-the-best tournment selected from what... 28 to 40 people? Doesn't sound right.
Would any organizer care to offer a reasoning for this system in place?
Well TLS is in Seasons now, which means we need to have some sense of continuity between them as they're connected. TLS aims to provide regular competition for best players in the foreign BW scene for as long as we can. Unknown underdog stories are still possible, but I don't think by artificially increasing the chances for underdogs to succeed will be beneficial to the overall quality of games.
I don't see how having a repetitive list of players, when those players are best in the scene, is a bad thing. Some unknown players are good, but it's just up to us how we want the ratio to be and right now we decided with this ratio. However, keep in mind that this is our only second season so it's possible we might consider changing this in upcoming seasons.
Can we expect more than just four TLSs? Perhaps Four TLSs...every year!? :D also to satisfy the lesser known players, can you guys host smaller tournaments with a smaller prize pool where all the notables are not allowed to enter xD
Yeah, we plan to host TLSs for as long as we can and for as long as there are players playing this wonderful game.
And there are already plenty of tournaments and leagues where notables are not allowed to enter
On May 06 2013 13:00 traceurling wrote: Hmm...I was thinking about it, and I feel like having everyone from Ro16 onwards seeded is somewhat unfairish, I feel like Ro8 onwards would be a better standard...to reach Ro16 you only have to pass through one round, and while the Ro24 definitely was not "easy" to get out of, I feel like making it through two rounds is exponentially harder and meritable than one round...also, keep in mind four people were automatically seeded into the Ro16, and while these guys did make it far enough it wouldn't make a difference if you changed the rule, consider a hypothetical situation of some of those seeded not making it to Ro8 but now essentially get a free seed into next TLS without a win...maybe it'd be better to only have Ro8 onwards seeded as it still offers a lot of continuity, but still gives a lot of chances to "underdogs"...and maybe consider possibility of say giving people who did make it to Ro16 and initial 10 or 20 or something points to help them, but not too much...idk just throwing out ideas maybe to keep in mind for next TLS?
You're looking at it wrong. You're making it seem like Ro24 is in the middle of TLS or something when in fact it is a very first round of actual TLS. Qualifiers are not TLS, they're qualifiers. And the aim of TLS is to provide competition for best players in foreign BW scene. By having people who already qualified in the last TLS and reached Ro16, not play qualifiers again it's not really that big of an advantage. They already proved themselves as top players in the scene so making them seeded into the first round of TLS is just to ensure we have best players playing in actual TLS. Think of it as an invitational, but also with an open bracket on the side which still gives possibility for unknown underdogs to achieve their cinderella story.
On May 06 2013 13:02 dRaW wrote: so can we cast opening round games or only replays? (ro126/64/etc) I feel like there wont be that many to sign up this time for some reason but hopefully it is as surprising as the first one.
You can cast from replays which we'll provide right after each round has been played as there are no observers allowed.
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
How exactly will you do that?
Please just leave it to luck.
Yeah can this be explained please?
We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on?
Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless.
I agree. I'm always on the noteable list but I suck. I'm sure there's plenty of way better players who aren't noteable by whatever standards they use to judge noteable players, pure random bracket would probably be better.
You were actually on the notable list because you were made notable in SC2 tournaments and the list is combined ^^
But anyways, I think you're overestimating the importance of notable players. Since the qualifiers are Bo1 Single Elimination up until the Ro8, we're just ensuring that the two best, most known, players won't knock out each other in Ro128 or whatever. The bracket is still 90% random and even seeded players can, and often do, get eliminated just because it's a bo1 and anything can happen.
To the guy you quoted and said "I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless." - this is just wrong. If arguably two best players who signed up for a qualifier meet each other in the first round of a Single Elimination Bo1 tournament, one of them is gonna get knocked out so it's literally impossible for him to rise up even though he might be better than the 98% of players in the tournament.
why would he be notable for his sc2 results? i dont see the connection between making the top players not bump into each other in ro128 and sc2 results.
On May 06 2013 13:00 traceurling wrote: Hmm...I was thinking about it, and I feel like having everyone from Ro16 onwards seeded is somewhat unfairish, I feel like Ro8 onwards would be a better standard...to reach Ro16 you only have to pass through one round, and while the Ro24 definitely was not "easy" to get out of, I feel like making it through two rounds is exponentially harder and meritable than one round...also, keep in mind four people were automatically seeded into the Ro16, and while these guys did make it far enough it wouldn't make a difference if you changed the rule, consider a hypothetical situation of some of those seeded not making it to Ro8 but now essentially get a free seed into next TLS without a win...maybe it'd be better to only have Ro8 onwards seeded as it still offers a lot of continuity, but still gives a lot of chances to "underdogs"...and maybe consider possibility of say giving people who did make it to Ro16 and initial 10 or 20 or something points to help them, but not too much...idk just throwing out ideas maybe to keep in mind for next TLS?
You're looking at it wrong. You're making it seem like Ro24 is in the middle of TLS or something when in fact it is a very first round of actual TLS. Qualifiers are not TLS, they're qualifiers. And the aim of TLS is to provide competition for best players in foreign BW scene. By having people who already qualified in the last TLS and reached Ro16, not play qualifiers again it's not really that big of an advantage. They already proved themselves as top players in the scene so making them seeded into the first round of TLS is just to ensure we have best players playing in actual TLS. Think of it as an invitational, but also with an open bracket on the side which still gives possibility for unknown underdogs to achieve their cinderella story.
On May 06 2013 13:02 dRaW wrote: so can we cast opening round games or only replays? (ro126/64/etc) I feel like there wont be that many to sign up this time for some reason but hopefully it is as surprising as the first one.
You can cast from replays which we'll provide right after each round has been played as there are no observers allowed.
On May 06 2013 13:28 LuckyFool wrote:
On May 06 2013 08:26 GoShox wrote:
On May 06 2013 07:57 2Pacalypse- wrote:
On May 06 2013 02:44 GoShox wrote:
On May 05 2013 22:24 thezanursic wrote:
On May 05 2013 22:03 Sayle wrote:
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
How exactly will you do that?
Please just leave it to luck.
Yeah can this be explained please?
We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on?
Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless.
I agree. I'm always on the noteable list but I suck. I'm sure there's plenty of way better players who aren't noteable by whatever standards they use to judge noteable players, pure random bracket would probably be better.
You were actually on the notable list because you were made notable in SC2 tournaments and the list is combined ^^
But anyways, I think you're overestimating the importance of notable players. Since the qualifiers are Bo1 Single Elimination up until the Ro8, we're just ensuring that the two best, most known, players won't knock out each other in Ro128 or whatever. The bracket is still 90% random and even seeded players can, and often do, get eliminated just because it's a bo1 and anything can happen.
To the guy you quoted and said "I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless." - this is just wrong. If arguably two best players who signed up for a qualifier meet each other in the first round of a Single Elimination Bo1 tournament, one of them is gonna get knocked out so it's literally impossible for him to rise up even though he might be better than the 98% of players in the tournament.
why would he be notable for his sc2 results? i dont see the connection between making the top players not bump into each other in ro128 and sc2 results.
You misunderstood 2pac I think. LuckyFool is in the notable list in that link because of his SC2 results, since it is a combine list. However they do not consider him notable for TLS so no need to worry, since they only look at the BW notable list. The same applies to other. The end.
On May 06 2013 13:00 traceurling wrote: Hmm...I was thinking about it, and I feel like having everyone from Ro16 onwards seeded is somewhat unfairish, I feel like Ro8 onwards would be a better standard...to reach Ro16 you only have to pass through one round, and while the Ro24 definitely was not "easy" to get out of, I feel like making it through two rounds is exponentially harder and meritable than one round...also, keep in mind four people were automatically seeded into the Ro16, and while these guys did make it far enough it wouldn't make a difference if you changed the rule, consider a hypothetical situation of some of those seeded not making it to Ro8 but now essentially get a free seed into next TLS without a win...maybe it'd be better to only have Ro8 onwards seeded as it still offers a lot of continuity, but still gives a lot of chances to "underdogs"...and maybe consider possibility of say giving people who did make it to Ro16 and initial 10 or 20 or something points to help them, but not too much...idk just throwing out ideas maybe to keep in mind for next TLS?
You're looking at it wrong. You're making it seem like Ro24 is in the middle of TLS or something when in fact it is a very first round of actual TLS. Qualifiers are not TLS, they're qualifiers. And the aim of TLS is to provide competition for best players in foreign BW scene. By having people who already qualified in the last TLS and reached Ro16, not play qualifiers again it's not really that big of an advantage. They already proved themselves as top players in the scene so making them seeded into the first round of TLS is just to ensure we have best players playing in actual TLS. Think of it as an invitational, but also with an open bracket on the side which still gives possibility for unknown underdogs to achieve their cinderella story.
On May 06 2013 13:02 dRaW wrote: so can we cast opening round games or only replays? (ro126/64/etc) I feel like there wont be that many to sign up this time for some reason but hopefully it is as surprising as the first one.
You can cast from replays which we'll provide right after each round has been played as there are no observers allowed.
On May 06 2013 13:28 LuckyFool wrote:
On May 06 2013 08:26 GoShox wrote:
On May 06 2013 07:57 2Pacalypse- wrote:
On May 06 2013 02:44 GoShox wrote:
On May 05 2013 22:24 thezanursic wrote:
On May 05 2013 22:03 Sayle wrote:
On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem.
How exactly will you do that?
Please just leave it to luck.
Yeah can this be explained please?
We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly.
If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on?
Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless.
I agree. I'm always on the noteable list but I suck. I'm sure there's plenty of way better players who aren't noteable by whatever standards they use to judge noteable players, pure random bracket would probably be better.
You were actually on the notable list because you were made notable in SC2 tournaments and the list is combined ^^
But anyways, I think you're overestimating the importance of notable players. Since the qualifiers are Bo1 Single Elimination up until the Ro8, we're just ensuring that the two best, most known, players won't knock out each other in Ro128 or whatever. The bracket is still 90% random and even seeded players can, and often do, get eliminated just because it's a bo1 and anything can happen.
To the guy you quoted and said "I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless." - this is just wrong. If arguably two best players who signed up for a qualifier meet each other in the first round of a Single Elimination Bo1 tournament, one of them is gonna get knocked out so it's literally impossible for him to rise up even though he might be better than the 98% of players in the tournament.
why would he be notable for his sc2 results? i dont see the connection between making the top players not bump into each other in ro128 and sc2 results.
You misunderstood 2pac I think. LuckyFool is in the notable list in that link because of his SC2 results, since it is a combine list. However they do not consider him notable for TLS so no need to worry, since they only look at the BW notable list. The same applies to other. The end.
16 -> 24 from TLS1 to TLS2, considering these TLSs are like qualifiers for the big final tournament, sounds to me like not flexible and open enough for different players to shine too. Luckily however, the foreign BW scene has pretty stable top group of players, so this won't really cause any significant fairness problems. In a more volatile scene, though, I'd protest a lot.
On May 06 2013 13:31 SynC[gm] wrote: It might not be a ton of money I can donate, but if I wanted to contribute some money to the prize pool, who would I contact?
I was thinking this as well.. The price pool is far to small for the enjoyment I got from the first one. Can anyone in the staff start a kickstarter. I think more people would be interested in contributing.
There's been a slight modification to Ro16 format. Even though it was initially announced that all games will be Bo3, it was now altered to Sonic-style where first two matches are Bo1 and the remaining are Bo3. So it will look like this:
Player 1 < Bo1 > Player 2 Player 3 < Bo1 > Player 4 Winner < Bo3 > Winner Loser < Bo3 > Loser Final < Bo3 > Final
Also, broadcasting schedule was slightly changed and now we will cast one Ro16 group per day, including the Sunday. So the new broadcasting schedule for Ro16 is:
Jun 22. (Sat) - Ro16 (Group A) Jun 23. (Sun) - Ro16 (Group B) Jun 29. (Sat) - Ro16 (Group C) Jun 30. (Sun) - Ro16 (Group D)
On June 14 2013 06:00 2Pacalypse- wrote: There's been a slight modification to Ro16 format. Even though it was initially announced that all games will be Bo3, it was now altered to Sonic-style where first two matches are Bo1 and the remaining are Bo3. So it will look like this:
Player 1 < Bo1 > Player 2 Player 3 < Bo1 > Player 4 Winner < Bo3 > Winner Loser < Bo3 > Loser Final < Bo3 > Final
Also, broadcasting schedule was slightly changed and now we will cast one Ro16 group per day, including the Sunday. So the new broadcasting schedule for Ro16 is:
Jun 22. (Sat) - Ro16 (Group A) Jun 23. (Sun) - Ro16 (Group B) Jun 29. (Sat) - Ro16 (Group C) Jun 30. (Sun) - Ro16 (Group D)
Yay. I've been advocating not having it a bo1 in Ro16 since season 1!
On June 14 2013 06:00 2Pacalypse- wrote: There's been a slight modification to Ro16 format. Even though it was initially announced that all games will be Bo3, it was now altered to Sonic-style where first two matches are Bo1 and the remaining are Bo3. So it will look like this:
Player 1 < Bo1 > Player 2 Player 3 < Bo1 > Player 4 Winner < Bo3 > Winner Loser < Bo3 > Loser Final < Bo3 > Final
Also, broadcasting schedule was slightly changed and now we will cast one Ro16 group per day, including the Sunday. So the new broadcasting schedule for Ro16 is:
Jun 22. (Sat) - Ro16 (Group A) Jun 23. (Sun) - Ro16 (Group B) Jun 29. (Sat) - Ro16 (Group C) Jun 30. (Sun) - Ro16 (Group D)
Yay. I've been advocating not having it a bo1 in Ro16 since season 1!
1+
they changed it from "planned" all bo3 into this now, so its fewer games than planned
On June 14 2013 06:00 2Pacalypse- wrote: There's been a slight modification to Ro16 format. Even though it was initially announced that all games will be Bo3, it was now altered to Sonic-style where first two matches are Bo1 and the remaining are Bo3. So it will look like this:
Player 1 < Bo1 > Player 2 Player 3 < Bo1 > Player 4 Winner < Bo3 > Winner Loser < Bo3 > Loser Final < Bo3 > Final
Also, broadcasting schedule was slightly changed and now we will cast one Ro16 group per day, including the Sunday. So the new broadcasting schedule for Ro16 is:
Jun 22. (Sat) - Ro16 (Group A) Jun 23. (Sun) - Ro16 (Group B) Jun 29. (Sat) - Ro16 (Group C) Jun 30. (Sun) - Ro16 (Group D)
Yay. I've been advocating not having it a bo1 in Ro16 since season 1!
1+
they changed it from "planned" all bo3 into this now, so its fewer games than planned
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/shiroiusagi/broodwar/tlsseason2.png)
I dont really like Wind and Cloud but oh wells...nice to see a 2 and3 player map, all 4 player maps are boring... Outsider is pretty wacky should have some lolzy games
