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Croatia9505 Posts
It's just a flaw in the system. He's not entered manually into the bracket even though he's marked as notable player.
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On May 06 2013 20:46 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 19:36 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 06 2013 13:00 traceurling wrote:
Hmm...I was thinking about it, and I feel like having everyone from Ro16 onwards seeded is somewhat unfairish, I feel like Ro8 onwards would be a better standard...to reach Ro16 you only have to pass through one round, and while the Ro24 definitely was not "easy" to get out of, I feel like making it through two rounds is exponentially harder and meritable than one round...also, keep in mind four people were automatically seeded into the Ro16, and while these guys did make it far enough it wouldn't make a difference if you changed the rule, consider a hypothetical situation of some of those seeded not making it to Ro8 but now essentially get a free seed into next TLS without a win...maybe it'd be better to only have Ro8 onwards seeded as it still offers a lot of continuity, but still gives a lot of chances to "underdogs"...and maybe consider possibility of say giving people who did make it to Ro16 and initial 10 or 20 or something points to help them, but not too much...idk just throwing out ideas maybe to keep in mind for next TLS? You're looking at it wrong. You're making it seem like Ro24 is in the middle of TLS or something when in fact it is a very first round of actual TLS. Qualifiers are not TLS, they're qualifiers. And the aim of TLS is to provide competition for best players in foreign BW scene. By having people who already qualified in the last TLS and reached Ro16, not play qualifiers again it's not really that big of an advantage. They already proved themselves as top players in the scene so making them seeded into the first round of TLS is just to ensure we have best players playing in actual TLS. Think of it as an invitational, but also with an open bracket on the side which still gives possibility for unknown underdogs to achieve their cinderella story. On May 06 2013 13:02 dRaW wrote:
so can we cast opening round games or only replays? (ro126/64/etc) I feel like there wont be that many to sign up this time for some reason but hopefully it is as surprising as the first one. You can cast from replays which we'll provide right after each round has been played as there are no observers allowed. On May 06 2013 13:28 LuckyFool wrote:On May 06 2013 08:26 GoShox wrote:On May 06 2013 07:57 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 06 2013 02:44 GoShox wrote:On May 05 2013 22:24 thezanursic wrote:On May 05 2013 22:03 Sayle wrote:On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem. How exactly will you do that? Please just leave it to luck. Yeah can this be explained please? We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly. Define "notable?" I see six notable players on the registration page here (so far): http://www.teamliquid.net/tournaments/admin/?action=view&id=3504. Are they all going to be automatically seeded? If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on? Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless. I agree. I'm always on the noteable list but I suck. I'm sure there's plenty of way better players who aren't noteable by whatever standards they use to judge noteable players, pure random bracket would probably be better. You were actually on the notable list because you were made notable in SC2 tournaments and the list is combined ^^ But anyways, I think you're overestimating the importance of notable players. Since the qualifiers are Bo1 Single Elimination up until the Ro8, we're just ensuring that the two best, most known, players won't knock out each other in Ro128 or whatever. The bracket is still 90% random and even seeded players can, and often do, get eliminated just because it's a bo1 and anything can happen. To the guy you quoted and said "I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless." - this is just wrong. If arguably two best players who signed up for a qualifier meet each other in the first round of a Single Elimination Bo1 tournament, one of them is gonna get knocked out so it's literally impossible for him to rise up even though he might be better than the 98% of players in the tournament. why would he be notable for his sc2 results? i dont see the connection between making the top players not bump into each other in ro128 and sc2 results.
You misunderstood 2pac I think. LuckyFool is in the notable list in that link because of his SC2 results, since it is a combine list. However they do not consider him notable for TLS so no need to worry, since they only look at the BW notable list. The same applies to other. The end.
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On May 06 2013 21:10 vndestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 20:46 Cele wrote:On May 06 2013 19:36 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 06 2013 13:00 traceurling wrote:
Hmm...I was thinking about it, and I feel like having everyone from Ro16 onwards seeded is somewhat unfairish, I feel like Ro8 onwards would be a better standard...to reach Ro16 you only have to pass through one round, and while the Ro24 definitely was not "easy" to get out of, I feel like making it through two rounds is exponentially harder and meritable than one round...also, keep in mind four people were automatically seeded into the Ro16, and while these guys did make it far enough it wouldn't make a difference if you changed the rule, consider a hypothetical situation of some of those seeded not making it to Ro8 but now essentially get a free seed into next TLS without a win...maybe it'd be better to only have Ro8 onwards seeded as it still offers a lot of continuity, but still gives a lot of chances to "underdogs"...and maybe consider possibility of say giving people who did make it to Ro16 and initial 10 or 20 or something points to help them, but not too much...idk just throwing out ideas maybe to keep in mind for next TLS? You're looking at it wrong. You're making it seem like Ro24 is in the middle of TLS or something when in fact it is a very first round of actual TLS. Qualifiers are not TLS, they're qualifiers. And the aim of TLS is to provide competition for best players in foreign BW scene. By having people who already qualified in the last TLS and reached Ro16, not play qualifiers again it's not really that big of an advantage. They already proved themselves as top players in the scene so making them seeded into the first round of TLS is just to ensure we have best players playing in actual TLS. Think of it as an invitational, but also with an open bracket on the side which still gives possibility for unknown underdogs to achieve their cinderella story. On May 06 2013 13:02 dRaW wrote:
so can we cast opening round games or only replays? (ro126/64/etc) I feel like there wont be that many to sign up this time for some reason but hopefully it is as surprising as the first one. You can cast from replays which we'll provide right after each round has been played as there are no observers allowed. On May 06 2013 13:28 LuckyFool wrote:On May 06 2013 08:26 GoShox wrote:On May 06 2013 07:57 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 06 2013 02:44 GoShox wrote:On May 05 2013 22:24 thezanursic wrote:On May 05 2013 22:03 Sayle wrote:On May 05 2013 21:48 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
Well what if you have hard bracket side all of your four qualifiers? Then A- players can still qualify if they get few "junk" points from RO16 finishes. If they get easier bracket then they are qualfied anyway.
Qualifiers will be roughly seeded based on player skill level so that shouldn't really be a problem. How exactly will you do that? Please just leave it to luck. Yeah can this be explained please? We enter notable players manually into the bracket, placing them roughly apart and rest of the bracket is filled randomly. Define "notable?" I see six notable players on the registration page here (so far): http://www.teamliquid.net/tournaments/admin/?action=view&id=3504. Are they all going to be automatically seeded? If one consistently beats "notable" players in a given qualifier, will they become automatically seeded from then on? Sorry, but I'm just not a fan of subjectivity in tournaments. This isn't the NBA where teams play 82 games to determine their seeds. It seems to me that seeding will be determined by previous ladder ranks, which don't mean much, and past tournament results, where some mean more than others. Heck, I even knocked out one of the players that Sayle cited as "should have been in", and I haven't played this game competitively in years. I think this is treading into some dangerous waters. Everyone is going to have different definitions of notable and skilled, so why not let the players settle this with randomly generated brackets? I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless. I agree. I'm always on the noteable list but I suck. I'm sure there's plenty of way better players who aren't noteable by whatever standards they use to judge noteable players, pure random bracket would probably be better. You were actually on the notable list because you were made notable in SC2 tournaments and the list is combined ^^ But anyways, I think you're overestimating the importance of notable players. Since the qualifiers are Bo1 Single Elimination up until the Ro8, we're just ensuring that the two best, most known, players won't knock out each other in Ro128 or whatever. The bracket is still 90% random and even seeded players can, and often do, get eliminated just because it's a bo1 and anything can happen. To the guy you quoted and said "I guess I'm of the opinion that the best players are going to rise up regardless." - this is just wrong. If arguably two best players who signed up for a qualifier meet each other in the first round of a Single Elimination Bo1 tournament, one of them is gonna get knocked out so it's literally impossible for him to rise up even though he might be better than the 98% of players in the tournament. why would he be notable for his sc2 results? i dont see the connection between making the top players not bump into each other in ro128 and sc2 results. You misunderstood 2pac I think. LuckyFool is in the notable list in that link because of his SC2 results, since it is a combine list. However they do not consider him notable for TLS so no need to worry, since they only look at the BW notable list. The same applies to other. The end.
Ah, i got it now. Thx for explanation (;
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16 -> 24 from TLS1 to TLS2, considering these TLSs are like qualifiers for the big final tournament, sounds to me like not flexible and open enough for different players to shine too. Luckily however, the foreign BW scene has pretty stable top group of players, so this won't really cause any significant fairness problems. In a more volatile scene, though, I'd protest a lot.
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On May 06 2013 13:31 SynC[gm] wrote:
It might not be a ton of money I can donate, but if I wanted to contribute some money to the prize pool, who would I contact?
I was thinking this as well.. The price pool is far to small for the enjoyment I got from the first one.
Can anyone in the staff start a kickstarter. I think more people would be interested in contributing.
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Kau
Canada3500 Posts
On May 05 2013 20:13 Reason wrote:
Is everyone playing in this going to be like A-/+ ?
D+ :D
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Can't compete but will definitely be watching!
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I hope Voddy plays again and goes far in this one. ^^ I really enjoyed his play!
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I hope to win 1 game this time.
I can break these cuffs!
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FUck yeah! Season 1 was awesome!
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Fuck so I played te first ladder game I've played in months...and yeah basically I'm fucked....
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Where do you actually sign up for the qualifiers though? I seemed to have missed that, somehow.
edit: nvm its in giant letters on the main page. 
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Good Luck guys
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I encourage more D players to sign up so I have a chance to win a game.
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EPT
