EPTBest Protoss vs ZerG?
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Pusan might have the best win % pvz in pro leagues atm (not sure) but he has yet to stand the test of longevity in comparison to Reach afaik. as far as non koreans go: Arcneon isnt to bad these days in this mu Draco has always been nice albeit inconsistant imo Testie for jewish style aka fe to sair/reaver and other technical styles Mondragon actually has a very powerful basic style just does the little things right You can find replays on gosugamers.net wgt.com or tl.net for some nice examples, or someone could kindly link you to the korean rep sites and even the chinese ones. | ||
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
Best in Korea: Nal_rA(sair/reaver style at least) or Anytime. Best of all-time: Pro.NT_Sonjjang aka finalace - he was acknowledged by ALOT of players as the best PvZ player, but his PvT was really really horrible(which isnt that strange because he was a very microoriented player) T_T Many would say GARIMTOi or IntoTheRain are best alltime too, which is ok. | ||
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-=SWM=-
Canada306 Posts
EDIT: Found site tyo upload to not sure but i assume the download speed will suck.. GLHF~ http://www.filefactory.com/get/f.php?f=7f3aa1e0ebc5973f65943546 | ||
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Pro.NT_Knight
Australia539 Posts
 PvT hes had some good games, but his pvz was great | ||
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-=SWM=-
Canada306 Posts
On December 05 2005 16:22 Guybrush wrote: Best outside Korea: [S.Top]Angel Best in Korea: Nal_rA(sair/reaver style at least) or Anytime. Best of all-time: Pro.NT_Sonjjang aka finalace - he was acknowledged by ALOT of players as the best PvZ player, but his PvT was really really horrible(which isnt that strange because he was a very microoriented player) T_T Many would say GARIMTOi or IntoTheRain are best alltime too, which is ok. I was under the impression GARIMTOi is not actually GARIMTO and I this his PvT was more godly anyways, Rain tho on the other had had some art PvZ | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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-=SWM=-
Canada306 Posts
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
On December 05 2005 16:37 Carnac wrote: i only recall a few old sonjjang replays on lt in which he humiliates zerg with aggressive early goon use, very impressive ^^ I think you're thinking about his game vs [GsP]JJu+___+ @ temple. The game is very microintensive involving goons and lurker drops. JJu being @ 6 and Sonjjang @ 3. GARIMTOi was GARIMTOs gamei ID a long long time ago when Yosh, Smuft, and Nazgul played there. Oh and btw Sonjjang used Pro.NT_Ryoko in his last games before he retired. | ||
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Luhh
Sweden2974 Posts
Best micro and unit control among those mentioned is Reach imo, and clearly so. Though he sometimes botches games because of poor builds/strat or just plays too risky and presses too much when he should consolidate etc. But that also makes him interesting to watch. Edit: True, I forgot foru. Terato and rainbow has done well recently, but they haven't really achieved anything and seem to lack consistency. | ||
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Jampoot
United States17 Posts
My vote is reach. Non-korean: testie/fisheye | ||
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
All of these gamers have great sense of timing, so either should fulfull your need. All of them have very entertaining styles as well, so just pick up all you can find and enjoy | ||
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uPGaminG
Portugal260 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On December 05 2005 16:57 Jampoot wrote: Reach is the best Protoss behind ForU and we all know how good ForU is pvz... My vote is reach. Non-korean: testie/fisheye !?!? #W$rg sdafadgAFg WHAT THE FUCK? ForU's PvT is A level, but his PvZ is like.. progamer C/B level -_-; | ||
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NuclearAntelope
United States1369 Posts
On December 05 2005 16:41 Guybrush wrote: I think you're thinking about his game vs [GsP]JJu+___+ @ temple. The game is very microintensive involving goons and lurker drops. JJu being @ 6 and Sonjjang @ 3. GARIMTOi was GARIMTOs gamei ID a long long time ago when Yosh, Smuft, and Nazgul played there. Oh and btw Sonjjang used Pro.NT_Ryoko in his last games before he retired. I was fairly sure garimto's gamei name was SSreGiTosS. | ||
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RiSE
United States3182 Posts
On December 05 2005 17:25 FrozenArbiter wrote: !?!? #W$rg sdafadgAFg WHAT THE FUCK? ForU's PvT is A level, but his PvZ is like.. progamer C/B level -_-; Foru has really raped July lately :D | ||
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QuietIdiot
7004 Posts
Edit: well maybe not raped by cnstorm, but that second game(wcg) on estrella was definetly rape | ||
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Luhh
Sweden2974 Posts
On December 05 2005 17:12 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: Reach = can't win a pvz final for his life. All of the current top protoss players are great pvz players - they have to be, because they waded thru the entire zerg population of korea to get where they are. Look into some games from kingdom and ra, when those two were on top of everything they put reach on the sideline and ran the whole show themselves. Nowadays anytime and pusan are both pretty much unbeatable by zergs, while Rock held the best winning % against zergs a little while ago (not sure if he still does). All of these gamers have great sense of timing, so either should fulfull your need. All of them have very entertaining styles as well, so just pick up all you can find and enjoy That is... quite unfair. I mean he did beat Yellow for 3rd place, though I admit yellow is rather weak ZvP. He defeated chojja quite recently in a BO5 and did a decent job against IPX. Nal_ra, I don't remember him playing more BO3+ against zergs and winning them more than Reach, and maps play a role etc. But yeah, I guess one year ago I would say Nal_ra and Kingdom were the top PvZs with Reach just behind, but Reach clearly the PvT monster of those 3. | ||
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iNsaNe-
Finland5201 Posts
And Yellow is weak ZvP? 0_O | ||
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User11
Canada481 Posts
 no? | ||
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starofNC
United States1340 Posts
though I think the emphasis when choosing Reach would be as someone mentioned 'longevity' but then again, I still don't think Reach could claim the title of top pvz even if that were the case. Kingdom certainly has a talent for pvz, so does Rock. Nal_rA is probably the most notorious PvZ'er just because his style is so unique and regardless of that his game statistics put him up there with the best of the best. anyone who says foru, could not be more wrong lol.. but yea suffice to say in pro gaming circles his pvz is probably C level. Anyway my pick for best Pvz currently: Anytime[gm] All time best Pvz: Nal_rA | ||
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
On December 05 2005 17:27 NuclearAntelope wrote: I was fairly sure garimto's gamei name was SSreGiTosS. You are correct, but of course he didnt only play gamei with only one ID. SSregiToss and GARIMTOi were probably two of many. EDIT: He also used [GG13]Protoss for a while. | ||
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Bill Gates
31 Posts
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
They both have performed well recently. Additionally, Pusan claims to win about 90% of practice PvZ (and he's on POS w/ july jesus) Reach tends to be held back by his PvZ abilities. In most tournaments, he does well until he reaches a zerg, at which point he struggles | ||
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CreationZealot
72 Posts
now hi isnt top 10 but his pvz was/is amazing but its fifficult imitate his style ... :D | ||
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MyDoom
1274 Posts
On December 05 2005 18:14 Bill Gates wrote: i dont think sonjjang is ryoko sonjjang = ryoko that's for sure, i remember a ryoko 5 - 1 blackman (quick & one sided games), just after wcg 2003 btw my vote goes with ra and pusan | ||
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nortydog
Australia3067 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On December 05 2005 20:50 nortydog wrote: any replays from that mydoom? It was after wcg 2002 I think, he beat him in the pG christmas cup thing (and maybe in the broodwar.com one as well?). Anyway, as far as I can remember, he won 2-0 PvZ and lost a TvZ but I'm not sure, it might have been more. Otherwise the rest of the games he mentions are from somewhere else o,O | ||
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Sadist
United States7326 Posts
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Make7UpYours
893 Posts
On December 05 2005 17:25 FrozenArbiter wrote: !?!? #W$rg sdafadgAFg WHAT THE FUCK? ForU's PvT is A level, but his PvZ is like.. progamer C/B level -_-; My guess is he's one of those people who determines the best players off of WCG. | ||
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gulii
Sweden2791 Posts
But my real vote goes to Reach and Nal_rA (which are the P gods in everything. imo) | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13307 Posts
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maVi
Germany542 Posts
Hexer had a very good, aggressive PvZ back in days, when he was active. | ||
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gravity
Australia1988 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 05 2005 17:59 starofNC wrote: TKWL got it ^^ though I think the emphasis when choosing Reach would be as someone mentioned 'longevity' but then again, I still don't think Reach could claim the title of top pvz even if that were the case. Kingdom certainly has a talent for pvz, so does Rock. Nal_rA is probably the most notorious PvZ'er just because his style is so unique and regardless of that his game statistics put him up there with the best of the best. anyone who says foru, could not be more wrong lol.. but yea suffice to say in pro gaming circles his pvz is probably C level. Anyway my pick for best Pvz currently: Anytime[gm] All time best Pvz: Nal_rA The longevity was me, because im brilliant. | ||
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drc
Finland261 Posts
I bet none of those "old bw heroes" are nearly as good as people are nowadays.. So how can one be 'best of all time'? | ||
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PuertoRican
United States5709 Posts
He and all the smart gamers today, who were around when he was, know that the top Protoss players of today arent shit, all lazy, and not creative. hopefully Anytime will get more known, then play in more leagues, and start playing his own way and have trademark moves, even though those dt's he uses are cute. my favorite toss players of all time in order: 1.GARIMTO 2.Grrrr 3.Anyppi 4.Nazgul 5.Smuft | ||
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chicken`
Germany3478 Posts
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rel
Guam3521 Posts
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Coulthard
Greece3359 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 06 2005 00:23 gulii wrote: Pusan is the PvZ god (at the moment). Before he even got his "pro-carraer" edmitted he beated many good Z players. And now he even rapes them pretty bad almost each time while this is true, there are not alot of pusan pvz reps as of late (as with all pros), imo they arent the best pusan has churned out at pvz, he has some good 1.10 games but like you said, reach and ra are both pvz gods... however ra's style is hard to pull off so :S | ||
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lightman
United States731 Posts
best pvz ? too many names.... ra, grrr, smuft, pusan, intotherain himself | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
Who cares about this rank since the topic starter has simply stated that he wanted top pvz replays ? That means just show'em one of the top P vs one of the top Z, i really don't fucking care who's playing that's all T_T When someone is mentionning that X is truly the best we're then going to have a LONG endless debate. FFS just say X is prolly one of the best to look around that enough to know which replays we'd watch. Thanks. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
Also i think Incontrol is pretty biased to mention Mondragon as a good PvZ player but leaving FiSheYe out, who is by far the better PvZ gamer. He can beat and already beat all the good zergs. Except mondi and korean pros! But as for the best PvZ i'll go with Nal_rA. He simply breathes PvZ. But i think watching his replays or vods wont help, cause his play is never able to copy. Not in a single point ;p. SO its useless.. I think watching the best foreign tosses in PvZ helps much more, since their style is at least easier to copy. Take a look at Fisheye, Arcneon, Draco ( especially on Nostalgia that guy is pretty good =D ) | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
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Luhh
Sweden2974 Posts
On December 06 2005 02:28 drc wrote: Thanks for mentioning "best of all time", when someone says that it gives me a good laugh. I bet none of those "old bw heroes" are nearly as good as people are nowadays.. So how can one be 'best of all time'? When people say this they usually mean, "By contemporary standards and competition". | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On December 06 2005 07:13 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Its a pain in the ass to read smuft on the list with gamers like Ra, Grrrr, Pusan, IntotheRain ect.. Also i think Incontrol is pretty biased to mention Mondragon as a good PvZ player but leaving FiSheYe out, who is by far the better PvZ gamer. He can beat and already beat all the good zergs. Except mondi and korean pros! Yeah and midian and I'm sure a lot more people. | ||
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mitsy
United States1792 Posts
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TreK
Sweden2089 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 06 2005 07:13 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Its a pain in the ass to read smuft on the list with gamers like Ra, Grrrr, Pusan, IntotheRain ect.. Also i think Incontrol is pretty biased to mention Mondragon as a good PvZ player but leaving FiSheYe out, who is by far the better PvZ gamer. He can beat and already beat all the good zergs. Except mondi and korean pros! But as for the best PvZ i'll go with Nal_rA. He simply breathes PvZ. But i think watching his replays or vods wont help, cause his play is never able to copy. Not in a single point ;p. SO its useless.. I think watching the best foreign tosses in PvZ helps much more, since their style is at least easier to copy. Take a look at Fisheye, Arcneon, Draco ( especially on Nostalgia that guy is pretty good =D ) I think its pretty funny you accuse me of being biased than offer Fisheye up in the next sentence lol. Ask anybody that knows, a mondragon PvZ is up there with the rest in non korean terms. Im not necessarily biased, id be the first to tell you dissy will lose to nub ass t's O_O | ||
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e1-Daft
Latvia19 Posts
Ryoko's aggressive play was great also ! In the rest of the world I always liked Draco and sYs. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On December 06 2005 08:23 Twisted wrote: Yeah and midian and I'm sure a lot more people. You think mentioning mondi for !P!vz and not mentioning fisheye makes sense ? Thats all we're talking about. I think it doesnt, if you do, well.. at least i know not all guys from netherlands are like you ;P For example i love Frank Carsten, who you obviously dont know 8/ ! He is an amazing player ! But i a ''other'' ''game''. I dont think fisheye's PvZ is great. For sure it isnt compared to his pvp and pvt, but i think fisheye's pvz is still better than mondis.. D: On December 06 2005 10:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I think its pretty funny you accuse me of being biased than offer Fisheye up in the next sentence lol. Srry for offering fisheye one of the most successful tosses around. Doing always great in wcg, dominating germany ( with mondi ). So many tournaments won ect.. How stupid to mention fisheye in a thread which asks about good PvZ gamers.. how st.. u understand me ? 8{ | ||
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iNsaNe-
Finland5201 Posts
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Asian Fever
France269 Posts
Reach,Anytime,Sonjjang and the best IntoTheRain and Garimto | ||
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Asian Fever
France269 Posts
On December 06 2005 08:09 Hot_Bid wrote: fisheye magic~phil? really? i find the smurf of fisheye =>its magic~phil! | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On December 06 2005 12:44 Asian Fever wrote: i find the smurf of fisheye =>its magic~phil! i am not frederik keitel he wouldnt be as stupid as me he wouldnt even waste his time on the board i just dont know why people even flame me if i post his name in a thread thats basically all about him He simply is the dominant foreign toss user for the last 3-4 years. With some others.. So what !? Why shouldnt i mention him if i have draco , arcneonen ect.. tt | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Asian Fever
France269 Posts
On December 06 2005 12:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote: the bias is that everyone here knows you are swinging off fisheye's nut sack with the your thumb in his ass as well. I honestly think there are a bunch of protoss (non korean) better than fisheye for PvZ and i definately think Mondragon is one of them. Bringing up Fisheye's wcg performance is nice, but what zerg has he beaten in wcg? dont he beat testie with proxy gates ? | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On December 06 2005 12:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote: the bias is that everyone here knows you are swinging off fisheye's nut sack with the your thumb in his ass as well. I honestly think there are a bunch of protoss (non korean) better than fisheye for PvZ and i definately think Mondragon is one of them. Bringing up Fisheye's wcg performance is nice, but what zerg has he beaten in wcg? holy shit.. u ignorant.. uuhh.. whatever So right now u said mondis Pvz > Fishy's PvZ Okey, no one can really prove who is right. But FiSheYe beat Testie in wcg !? 2:0 one PvT and one PvZ . FiSheYe played pretty decent vs ogogo on pgt, ect.. He beat Trek back in wcg04, who isnt that bad in ZvP either. Especially if he's training. THe fish vs trek games were one of the coolest wcg games ive seen so far.. I cant really believe that u think mondis PvZ > fisheye's PvZ .. Do NOT call me biased if u say mondis PvZ > FiSh's PvZ. T_T ANd i know that fisheyes pvz isnt as good as his pvp and pvt, but still he can beat almost any zerg, except maybe mondi. He already beat and can beat ret, sen, ect.. ect.. But i'll stop here.. We cant prove who is better but i dont see a fault of me to name fish in THIS specific thread T_T | ||
Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4516 Posts
mondi's pvz is by far worse than fisheye's pvz best non kor pvz's are fisheye and draco, that's pretty much it gurram has a pretty cool fast exp style but he's not very all-round | ||
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rel
Guam3521 Posts
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