On May 11 2012 05:55 singul4rity wrote:
Really??? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. D:
Really??? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. D:
watch korean stream, feel good.
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
On May 11 2012 05:55 singul4rity wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 05:49 SenorChang wrote: On May 11 2012 05:23 singul4rity wrote: On May 11 2012 05:08 JustPassingBy wrote: Is there some kind of source where you can watch all the games? It's been implied by TorcH, the OGN LoL caster, on State of the Game that they will have something like http://www.ognlol.com/ for foreigners. It hasn't been revealed yet AFAIK. they said that the global stream won't be ready for opening day =( Really??? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. D: watch korean stream, feel good. | ||
Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On May 11 2012 11:30 BLinD-RawR wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 05:55 singul4rity wrote: On May 11 2012 05:49 SenorChang wrote: On May 11 2012 05:23 singul4rity wrote: On May 11 2012 05:08 JustPassingBy wrote: Is there some kind of source where you can watch all the games? It's been implied by TorcH, the OGN LoL caster, on State of the Game that they will have something like http://www.ognlol.com/ for foreigners. It hasn't been revealed yet AFAIK. they said that the global stream won't be ready for opening day =( Really??? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. D: watch korean stream, feel good. korean stream is best stream even if you don't know korean | ||
.Mystic
Canada486 Posts
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densha
United States797 Posts
On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote: On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote: There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. | ||
StarStruck
25339 Posts
On May 11 2012 10:30 Maldais wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 10:00 BrosephBrostar wrote: On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote: On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote: On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote: There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. I watched GSL every night from the opening match up to the Genius vs Dongraegu finals. My enjoyment of the game was going down over time, not increasing. I didn't really care that people were getting better at the game because it still wasn't exciting and I honestly don't ever see it becoming excitng. I don't agree, but that's reasonable. I find the play gradually getting better, but yeah I think I've definitely been a little too overexposed to the game. Now I'm taking smaller doses over time and it isn't so bad. The Korean casters add so much energy and it's actually a great way to learn Korean. Blind nailed it. On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote: On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote: On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote: There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. The games are honestly nothing alike when you get down to the nitty gritty and if you're talking about last PL or the current OSL. The games have been sloppy and dreadful to watch. | ||
sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote: On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote: On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote: There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. The reason you see mistakes like that happening in the lower level pros (we call them B-teamers) is because BW is exponentially more difficult to multi-task and manage your armies while marcoing and balancing your economy. A mistake like that being made in sc2 should only happen in the regular-level mineral-league players. In BW, everybody looks incredibly sloppy and bad until A-level progamer. BW cheese at the pro level is almost non-existent. You can count an entire year's "cheese" games from the large public tournaments on 1 hand, sc2 its actually a decent %. The "one-in-a-million-EPIC" games actually happen quite often in BW. In fact you can expect about half the sets played in any given team vs team match or even BoX sets in the individual leagues to be "one-in-a-million-EPIC". sc2 it might be actually one-in-a-million while in BW it will be more like two-in-five-EPIC. If you had been watching vast amounts of BW you would know this from keeping up with the LR threads constantly since we often voted on how we thought the game was in terms of watchability so if you missed it, you could skip the crappy sets and just watch the good ones. | ||
MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
Where do LR threads go? Do they stay in the BW section becaue BW is still included in the format? I sure hope so. But maybe the TL mods will create a new forum: KESPA league, or something. | ||
urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On May 11 2012 08:51 GeLaar wrote: Forcing my favourite players to switch to SC2 does not force me to watch SC2. I'm not saying that BW professionals have been dying to jump onboard the SC2 train, but there's a problem with attempting to discern their personal opinion. A BW pro is either unsuccessful enough with the game that they barely make a living serving as a practice partner to more prominent players or so successful that they actually get paid something and are bound by their contracts. The ones who are still in it have their public communications and interviews scripted for them by KeSPA. Have you noticed none of the players have said anything negative about the SC2 switch? There's got to be at least one soul unhappy with it. Not all of them mayhaps but at least one, right? I find it hard to believe a claim such as "my favorite players are being forced" when you can't know that. They'd have to be allowed to speak for themselves for us to know that. Maybe some of them were looking to try something new or looking for an excuse to retire and pursue a career. Or maybe we can just look into Flash's puppy brown eyes and see the anguish. Feel it. On May 11 2012 11:57 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Serious question: and someone MUST have posted this (have only read the first few pages thus far): Where do LR threads go? Do they stay in the BW section becaue BW is still included in the format? I sure hope so. But maybe the TL mods will create a new forum: KESPA league, or something. I'm about 99% sure that there will be a LR thread in both forums. Otherwise you'd have massive problems. Moderators would live and die. | ||
icystorage
Jollibee19343 Posts
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
On May 11 2012 11:58 urashimakt wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 08:51 GeLaar wrote: Forcing my favourite players to switch to SC2 does not force me to watch SC2. I'm not saying that BW professionals have been dying to jump onboard the SC2 train, but there's a problem with attempting to discern their personal opinion. A BW pro is either unsuccessful enough with the game that they barely make a living serving as a practice partner to more prominent players or so successful that they actually get paid something and are bound by their contracts. The ones who are still in it have their public communications and interviews scripted for them by KeSPA. Have you noticed none of the players have said anything negative about the SC2 switch? There's got to be at least one soul unhappy with it. Not all of them mayhaps but at least one, right? I find it hard to believe a claim such as "my favorite players are being forced" when you can't know that. They'd have to be allowed to speak for themselves for us to know that. Maybe some of them were looking to try something new or looking for an excuse to retire and pursue a career. Or maybe we can just look into Flash's puppy brown eyes and see the anguish. Feel it. ![]() | ||
jpak
United States5045 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:01 Harem wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 11:58 urashimakt wrote: On May 11 2012 08:51 GeLaar wrote: Forcing my favourite players to switch to SC2 does not force me to watch SC2. I'm not saying that BW professionals have been dying to jump onboard the SC2 train, but there's a problem with attempting to discern their personal opinion. A BW pro is either unsuccessful enough with the game that they barely make a living serving as a practice partner to more prominent players or so successful that they actually get paid something and are bound by their contracts. The ones who are still in it have their public communications and interviews scripted for them by KeSPA. Have you noticed none of the players have said anything negative about the SC2 switch? There's got to be at least one soul unhappy with it. Not all of them mayhaps but at least one, right? I find it hard to believe a claim such as "my favorite players are being forced" when you can't know that. They'd have to be allowed to speak for themselves for us to know that. Maybe some of them were looking to try something new or looking for an excuse to retire and pursue a career. Or maybe we can just look into Flash's puppy brown eyes and see the anguish. Feel it. Soo called it a "rubbish game" on his Facebook. This question will be answered after this season is over. Just count how many progamers retire in september/october. | ||
densha
United States797 Posts
On May 11 2012 11:48 sCCrooked wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 11:42 densha wrote: On May 11 2012 09:52 Maldais wrote: On May 11 2012 09:21 b0lt wrote: On May 11 2012 08:09 Maldais wrote: There's a lot of hate on SC2 in this thread, some of the replies seem to show that people saw some sc2 in beta, didn't like it, and are still judging the game based on that. It's not deathball vs deathball anymore Watch some GSL Code S You mean like the MVP vs parting code S semifinal set 4? Yes, because BW never has cheesy sets. Parting has been playing very greedy, which has allowed P to have very strong late games. MVP punished him for that, it's the metagame evolving, the very thing that has always made starcraft an amazing dynamic game. This comment is perfectly representative of what I see a lot of, trying to judge the entire game/community by a very small sample size. If a SC2 fan who had never watched BW before decided to give it a chance, saw two mediocre sets, and judged BW to be a terrible game based on that, what would you say? That is what you're doing to SC2. This is kind of funny because that sort of happened to me. Although I watch BW when it's on (and I subscribe to certain Youtube channels catering to BW), I have to say my experience has culminated in the thought that "hmm, this is a lot like SC2!". Some of the first full matches I saw were of players that I never heard of (i.e. they weren't Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, etc). One set I distinctly remember one player walking into siege tank fire needlessly and that immediately broke the aura that I had envisioned around BW. What I really do appreciate is the deep history and meta-game development that BW has. When looking at it that way, BW is so wonderful, but each individual game doesn't seem to have any more chance of being one of those "godly" type games than an SC2 game does. Both games have short cheesy games, both games have timing attacks (and players that build their careers off of them), both have macro games, both have those one-in-a-million EPIC games. I can certainly understand how 'being there' through the history and development of BW must play a huge role in what so many are feeling now, but I really think the similarities of the games far outweigh their differences, at least from a spectator's point of view. The reason you see mistakes like that happening in the lower level pros (we call them B-teamers) is because BW is exponentially more difficult to multi-task and manage your armies while marcoing and balancing your economy. A mistake like that being made in sc2 should only happen in the regular-level mineral-league players. In BW, everybody looks incredibly sloppy and bad until A-level progamer. BW cheese at the pro level is almost non-existent. You can count an entire year's "cheese" games from the large public tournaments on 1 hand, sc2 its actually a decent %. The "one-in-a-million-EPIC" games actually happen quite often in BW. In fact you can expect about half the sets played in any given team vs team match or even BoX sets in the individual leagues to be "one-in-a-million-EPIC". sc2 it might be actually one-in-a-million while in BW it will be more like two-in-five-EPIC. If you had been watching vast amounts of BW you would know this from keeping up with the LR threads constantly since we often voted on how we thought the game was in terms of watchability so if you missed it, you could skip the crappy sets and just watch the good ones. I'm sure you're right, but that's just not been my experience. I also understand that BW is physically more difficult to play, but there comes a time where you can't blame every mistake on that sort of thing. If I have to keep reminding myself of 12-unit control groups every second in order to be impressed with the game, then that's not necessarily a good viewing experience for me. The argument can be turned around a bit, too. For example, if SC2 can let you be lazy with control groups and whatnot, it's really impressive when someone like MarineKing ('who's bio control is a tier above anyone else's right now) puts in so much effort to meticulously control his units. He shows that micro can be rewarded handsomely in SC2. He's also been so consistently GREAT for two years that he shows, along with MVP, MC, and some others, that SC2 rewards skill and is not some dice-roll like some believe. Anyway, I'm sort of going off topic. I guess it comes down to just enjoying whatever game you started out with and understand most deeply. I still don't see one being objectively better than the other. | ||
Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:01 Harem wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 11:58 urashimakt wrote: On May 11 2012 08:51 GeLaar wrote: Forcing my favourite players to switch to SC2 does not force me to watch SC2. I'm not saying that BW professionals have been dying to jump onboard the SC2 train, but there's a problem with attempting to discern their personal opinion. A BW pro is either unsuccessful enough with the game that they barely make a living serving as a practice partner to more prominent players or so successful that they actually get paid something and are bound by their contracts. The ones who are still in it have their public communications and interviews scripted for them by KeSPA. Have you noticed none of the players have said anything negative about the SC2 switch? There's got to be at least one soul unhappy with it. Not all of them mayhaps but at least one, right? I find it hard to believe a claim such as "my favorite players are being forced" when you can't know that. They'd have to be allowed to speak for themselves for us to know that. Maybe some of them were looking to try something new or looking for an excuse to retire and pursue a career. Or maybe we can just look into Flash's puppy brown eyes and see the anguish. Feel it. Soo called it a "rubbish game" on his Facebook. I think it'll be apparent pretty quick. The ones who don't like SC2 will probably wash out of it, a la Idra, because they can't get into it enough. | ||
urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:01 Harem wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 11:58 urashimakt wrote: On May 11 2012 08:51 GeLaar wrote: Forcing my favourite players to switch to SC2 does not force me to watch SC2. I'm not saying that BW professionals have been dying to jump onboard the SC2 train, but there's a problem with attempting to discern their personal opinion. A BW pro is either unsuccessful enough with the game that they barely make a living serving as a practice partner to more prominent players or so successful that they actually get paid something and are bound by their contracts. The ones who are still in it have their public communications and interviews scripted for them by KeSPA. Have you noticed none of the players have said anything negative about the SC2 switch? There's got to be at least one soul unhappy with it. Not all of them mayhaps but at least one, right? I find it hard to believe a claim such as "my favorite players are being forced" when you can't know that. They'd have to be allowed to speak for themselves for us to know that. Maybe some of them were looking to try something new or looking for an excuse to retire and pursue a career. Or maybe we can just look into Flash's puppy brown eyes and see the anguish. Feel it. Soo called it a "rubbish game" on his Facebook. Yeah, and isn't SoO retired? | ||
icystorage
Jollibee19343 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:08 urashimakt wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 12:01 Harem wrote: On May 11 2012 11:58 urashimakt wrote: On May 11 2012 08:51 GeLaar wrote: Forcing my favourite players to switch to SC2 does not force me to watch SC2. I'm not saying that BW professionals have been dying to jump onboard the SC2 train, but there's a problem with attempting to discern their personal opinion. A BW pro is either unsuccessful enough with the game that they barely make a living serving as a practice partner to more prominent players or so successful that they actually get paid something and are bound by their contracts. The ones who are still in it have their public communications and interviews scripted for them by KeSPA. Have you noticed none of the players have said anything negative about the SC2 switch? There's got to be at least one soul unhappy with it. Not all of them mayhaps but at least one, right? I find it hard to believe a claim such as "my favorite players are being forced" when you can't know that. They'd have to be allowed to speak for themselves for us to know that. Maybe some of them were looking to try something new or looking for an excuse to retire and pursue a career. Or maybe we can just look into Flash's puppy brown eyes and see the anguish. Feel it. Soo called it a "rubbish game" on his Facebook. Yeah, and isn't SoO retired? idk o.o he's still playing in the OSL (not sure if its the correct soo) | ||
MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:09 icystorage wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 12:08 urashimakt wrote: On May 11 2012 12:01 Harem wrote: On May 11 2012 11:58 urashimakt wrote: On May 11 2012 08:51 GeLaar wrote: Forcing my favourite players to switch to SC2 does not force me to watch SC2. I'm not saying that BW professionals have been dying to jump onboard the SC2 train, but there's a problem with attempting to discern their personal opinion. A BW pro is either unsuccessful enough with the game that they barely make a living serving as a practice partner to more prominent players or so successful that they actually get paid something and are bound by their contracts. The ones who are still in it have their public communications and interviews scripted for them by KeSPA. Have you noticed none of the players have said anything negative about the SC2 switch? There's got to be at least one soul unhappy with it. Not all of them mayhaps but at least one, right? I find it hard to believe a claim such as "my favorite players are being forced" when you can't know that. They'd have to be allowed to speak for themselves for us to know that. Maybe some of them were looking to try something new or looking for an excuse to retire and pursue a career. Or maybe we can just look into Flash's puppy brown eyes and see the anguish. Feel it. Soo called it a "rubbish game" on his Facebook. Yeah, and isn't SoO retired? idk o.o he's still playing in the OSL (not sure if its the correct soo) There is the SKTZerg SoO and the STX Protoss soo. He stx one is the one retired, and the facebook post is probably from Zerg SoO. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
On May 11 2012 11:57 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Serious question: and someone MUST have posted this (have only read the first few pages thus far): Where do LR threads go? Do they stay in the BW section becaue BW is still included in the format? I sure hope so. But maybe the TL mods will create a new forum: KESPA league, or something. half'n half BW side in BW SC2 side in SC2 | ||
Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:22 BLinD-RawR wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2012 11:57 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Serious question: and someone MUST have posted this (have only read the first few pages thus far): Where do LR threads go? Do they stay in the BW section becaue BW is still included in the format? I sure hope so. But maybe the TL mods will create a new forum: KESPA league, or something. half'n half BW side in BW SC2 side in SC2 I'd say we mash them up. The LEAST the mod can do is to grant me LR hilarities. TL is my source for entertainment and I would really love some refreshing experience. | ||
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