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On April 24 2012 11:18 Za7oX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 10:59 Caihead wrote:
Why is there SC2 balance / strategy discussion in the BW general forums >_> Soon TeamLiquid is thinking of combing the SC2 forum and the BW forum into a single "Starcraft forum" . These post are the first step to having a forum where BW and SC2 live side by side in peace and harmony.
More like the first step to the teamliquid equivalent to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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On April 24 2012 13:39 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 10:41 Lefiathen wrote:
i dont see how the oracle is the best unit in hots... i mean protoss needs a harass unit but that unit doesnt even kill workers and the mineral field can be destroyed in 5 seconds by 4 workers IF you see it. In BW, you have to keep an eye on your mineral patches because DTs don't give a "You're under attack" warning when they one-shot workers. A 45-second block on your mining is devestating, and the only way to catch it is to be paying close attention to your minerals. Thus, it makes the game more mechnically challenging, which is what people want. Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 10:38 1Eris1 wrote:
Helion/storm/etc drops are never going to be like reaver drops because workers are valued much more in BW then they are in SC2. With mules/larva inject/etc, command centers/nexuses/hatcheries take over this role and have bcecome more valuable than they are in BW. Wat. If anything, that's backwards. BW values bases more, and SC2 values the actual workers more, because you can put many more workers on a base in SC2. That's generally considered SC2's biggest problem, in fact, because it means you're not spread out and thus can keep a deathball instead of splitting. Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 12:15 sluggaslamoo wrote:On April 24 2012 10:31 Ribbon wrote:On April 24 2012 09:10 windsupernova wrote:
Sadly stuff like Reaver drops won't be in SC2 ever. People on SC2 whine too much for something so explosive and volatile to make it into the game. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HellionAt MLG, a hellion drop killed 22 workers in literally one shot. Also, "explosive and volatile" is a good descriptor of early-game ZvZ, ling-baneling wars. And while it's true that a lot of people hate ZvZ for that reason, it's been like that since release with no indication of change. Hellions drops are nothing like Reaver drops. Lets say you do a hellion drop and T backstabs your main, are you gonna lift your hellions and attack the army to defend? No you just leave them there, because hellions are useless except for killing workers. Hellions are great against Zealots (though they're rare against Protoss), ling/banes, marines, and other hellions. They also tank shots well for your tanks to move up, and can beat bio/tank in small numbers. I'll grant that reavers are generally a better unit if the RNG gods smile upon you, but it's not like Hellions are a one-trick pony. Show nested quote +The dumbest part is that if you pull your workers, you are more likely to lose more, than if you just leave them there. At least a lurker has to burrow first giving you time to pull. You know what help with that? Not having all your workers on one hotkey. That would allow you to split them in different directions, avoiding the splash. You're a BW player, so you ought to be able to handle that.
Why so condescending?
I don't need help, I wrote a guide on how to prevent hellion drops.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196232
In SC2 I used all my hotkeys 1-2 army 3 harass unit 4 ccs 5 raxes 6 facts 7 starports 8-9 drops 0 ebays. I don't have spare ones that I can keep for the whole game -_- and you still lose half your workers. The only viable way of doing that is the F1 method, which also sucks because it takes too long to do and you want to use F1 for screen saves.
In SC2 I often did hellion heavy builds. If I see un-stimmed marine backstab I will pick up and drop hellions on lower ground for kiting, if they have 1 tank or 2 marauders its useless, if it was a Reaver drop that army would be dead in 1 sec.
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When you go for a fast shuttle reaver you open up a lot of options. You can micro down a Terran push with a reaver, bust a push or a contain with a reaver, back stab with it, bust the nat with it, harass with it, and deny the third with it. The reaver isn't supposed to be able to kill scv's that are running away from it. If it did it would be overpowered as hell.
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On April 24 2012 14:20 puppykiller wrote:
When you go for a fast shuttle reaver you open up a lot of options. You can micro down a Terran push with a reaver, bust a push or a contain with a reaver, back stab with it, bust the nat with it, harass with it, and deny the third with it. The reaver isn't supposed to be able to kill scv's that are running away from it. If it did it would be overpowered as hell.
The bigger weakness of the reaver is the cost, IMO. 200/200 each for the Robo and Robo Bay, plus 200/100 for the reaver itself, and 200 minerals for the shuttle, which the reaver is nigh-useless without. That's 800/500, which is a lot, for an opening (not even counting the scarabs), and it's pretty far down a tech route that's not much used lategame in PvT, in particular. You're not getting upgrades for your gateway units, or another base, or stargate tech, while opening reavers. If you lose a shuttle with a reaver in it without doing much with them, that's a huge hole to climb out of.
Not that it's not often worth the investment, but it's actually quite the investment.
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On April 24 2012 19:11 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 14:20 puppykiller wrote:
When you go for a fast shuttle reaver you open up a lot of options. You can micro down a Terran push with a reaver, bust a push or a contain with a reaver, back stab with it, bust the nat with it, harass with it, and deny the third with it. The reaver isn't supposed to be able to kill scv's that are running away from it. If it did it would be overpowered as hell. The bigger weakness of the reaver is the cost, IMO. 200/200 each for the Robo and Robo Bay, plus 200/100 for the reaver itself, and 200 minerals for the shuttle, which the reaver is nigh-useless without. That's 800/500, which is a lot, for an opening (not even counting the scarabs), and it's pretty far down a tech route that's not much used lategame in PvT, in particular. You're not getting upgrades for your gateway units, or another base, or stargate tech, while opening reavers. If you lose a shuttle with a reaver in it without doing much with them, that's a huge hole to climb out of. Not that it's not often worth the investment, but it's actually quite the investment.
Well if you lose the reaver....you're either incredibly unlucky or bad. Reavers are honestly not that hard to lose but it is pretty hard to do enough damage to account for the cost (especially against imba Terran bullshit), which is why they're not used as much except in PvZ and PvP these days.
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On April 24 2012 20:17 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 19:11 Ribbon wrote:On April 24 2012 14:20 puppykiller wrote:
When you go for a fast shuttle reaver you open up a lot of options. You can micro down a Terran push with a reaver, bust a push or a contain with a reaver, back stab with it, bust the nat with it, harass with it, and deny the third with it. The reaver isn't supposed to be able to kill scv's that are running away from it. If it did it would be overpowered as hell. The bigger weakness of the reaver is the cost, IMO. 200/200 each for the Robo and Robo Bay, plus 200/100 for the reaver itself, and 200 minerals for the shuttle, which the reaver is nigh-useless without. That's 800/500, which is a lot, for an opening (not even counting the scarabs), and it's pretty far down a tech route that's not much used lategame in PvT, in particular. You're not getting upgrades for your gateway units, or another base, or stargate tech, while opening reavers. If you lose a shuttle with a reaver in it without doing much with them, that's a huge hole to climb out of. Not that it's not often worth the investment, but it's actually quite the investment. Well if you lose the reaver....you're either incredibly unlucky or bad. Reavers are honestly not that hard to lose but it is pretty hard to do enough damage to account for the cost (especially against imba Terran bullshit), which is why they're not used as much except in PvZ and PvP these days.
Well, you can do more with Reavers in PvP and PvZ, if you keep them alive. A few cannons and a reaver is basically invincible to zerg ground pre-defiler tech.
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I think the last many pages of BW vs SC2 can boil down to one thing: Majority of people will argue that their game is better and therefor it should be more popular.
You might think a reaver drop is amazing, but seeing incredibly micro in all other sorts of areas in SC2 can be as impressive.
There is ups and down to both games, SC2 is less refined, just because it havent been out for over a decade, but that doesn't mean its a bad game.
I would say that the majority of Brood Wars fanbase is more "hardcore" towards the game in percentage than how is it in SC2, so lets just say this, BW is 90% hardcore fans, SC is 50%, and LoL is about 2% because the game is so popular.
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my main question is, will it still be korean cast only ?
because of GSL and co, no new viewers from around the world would watch a league on korean only if you have tastosis casting english GSL, so an english cast would even bring new guys to watch some sc1 while sc2 ....
still i think both games together wont work and that it will bring alot trouble next times
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On April 24 2012 23:18 CoR wrote:
my main question is, will it still be korean cast only ?
because of GSL and co, no new viewers from around the world would watch a league on korean only if you have tastosis casting english GSL, so an english cast would even bring new guys to watch some sc1 while sc2 ....
still i think both games together wont work and that it will bring alot trouble next times
Hmm, some people like korean better for the feel of it, so i dont think its that simple. But since OGN has an english cast for LoL, i wouldn't be suprised, if they will get one for BW/Sc2 too aswell
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On April 20 2012 22:34 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 22:32 Sawamura wrote:On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote:
That's it for me. Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion. k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games.
Seeing statements like this i am thankfull i am not a BW fan...such a childish talk.
What makes the game exciting is your approach to it and players you root for, i bet my hand you've never watched an intense sc2 match even, and no wonder you don't find it interesting since your mind is set to "BW IS THE TRUE STARCRAFT ANYTHING ELSE IS INVALID!!111"
SC2 is not even in it's half potential yet, it's too young, when the switch occurs, and bonjwas plays it, expansions come out i can not see the reason why SC2 shouldn't be bigger than BW. That's the reason i also can't understand why you people are sad, instead of being cheerful that your beloved players don't quit competetive scene.
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My main concern is that BW had a special feeling to it. Stuff that was only in BW and you could not get it in any other game. Then Blizzard just waltz in (after doing nothing to promote or help bw) and build absolutely new game with a famous name attached to it (famous thanks to bw community and after everything it has done for BW compared to Blizzard's nothing) and say we give you SC2, look how cool it is. They make you pay for it 3 times and everyone is happy. Well, i did not like SC2 since i tried BETA, i did not like it when it was released and i don't like it at the moment. I might be speaking as a bw elitist, but guess what.... Imagine you have a very badass racing car and someone comes to you, gives you Prius and say look how cool it is. That is how i feel and everybody in my shoes would feel the same. Maybe this is afterall good for me as i can finally give up watching sc and let the younger guys have their time with their beloved game. But what a good run we've had. Thanks everyone.
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On April 24 2012 23:33 Ricjames wrote:
My main concern is that BW had a special feeling to it. Stuff that was only in BW and you could not get it in any other game. Then Blizzard just walz in (after doing nothing to promote or help bw) and build absolutely new game with a famous name attached to it (famous thanks to bw community and after everything it has done for BW compared to Blizzard's nothing) and say we give you SC2, look how cool it is. They make you pay for it 3 times and everyone is happy. Well, i did not like SC2 since i tried BETA, i did not like it when it was released and i don't like it at the moment. I might be speaking as a bw elitist, but guess what.... Imagine you have a very badass racing car and someone comes to you, gives you Prius and say look how cool it is. That is how i feel and everybody in my shoes would feel the same. Maybe this is afterall good for me as i can finally give up watching sc and let the younger guys have their time with their beloved game. But what a good run we've had. Thanks everyone.
You don't like SC2, that's fine, your not being forced to play it.
If a small computer company shuts down because it doesn't get enough sales, and then its consumed by the bigger organization because they have the buyers, its the same thing pretty much with Starcraft.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 23:46 Hiea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 23:33 Ricjames wrote:
My main concern is that BW had a special feeling to it. Stuff that was only in BW and you could not get it in any other game. Then Blizzard just walz in (after doing nothing to promote or help bw) and build absolutely new game with a famous name attached to it (famous thanks to bw community and after everything it has done for BW compared to Blizzard's nothing) and say we give you SC2, look how cool it is. They make you pay for it 3 times and everyone is happy. Well, i did not like SC2 since i tried BETA, i did not like it when it was released and i don't like it at the moment. I might be speaking as a bw elitist, but guess what.... Imagine you have a very badass racing car and someone comes to you, gives you Prius and say look how cool it is. That is how i feel and everybody in my shoes would feel the same. Maybe this is afterall good for me as i can finally give up watching sc and let the younger guys have their time with their beloved game. But what a good run we've had. Thanks everyone. You don't like SC2, that's fine, your not being forced to play it. If a small computer company shuts down because it doesn't get enough sales, and then its consumed by the bigger organization because they have the buyers, its the same thing pretty much with Starcraft.
I did not say i feel forced to play something. I said that with sc2, they took away all the good aspects (for me) of it's predecessor and that is why i don't like it. To me it feels like they replaced my 13 years old porshe with a prius instead of giving me a brain new ferrari which they should've done. All the foreign players played (at the beginning) sc2 because they saw opportunities behind it, not because they actually loved it as it was with bw. I am not here to argue, i just tried to explain my and my fellow "bw elitists" feelings. Also when the bw coaches and players themselves don't really like the switch and all the sc2 fans are all like: hell yeah i can't wait when the bw pros switch to sc2....it just doesn't feel right to me.
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On April 24 2012 23:33 Ricjames wrote:
My main concern is that BW had a special feeling to it. Stuff that was only in BW and you could not get it in any other game. Then Blizzard just waltz in (after doing nothing to promote or help bw) and build absolutely new game with a famous name attached to it (famous thanks to bw community and after everything it has done for BW compared to Blizzard's nothing) and say we give you SC2, look how cool it is. They make you pay for it 3 times and everyone is happy. Well, i did not like SC2 since i tried BETA, i did not like it when it was released and i don't like it at the moment. I might be speaking as a bw elitist, but guess what.... Imagine you have a very badass racing car and someone comes to you, gives you Prius and say look how cool it is. That is how i feel and everybody in my shoes would feel the same. Maybe this is afterall good for me as i can finally give up watching sc and let the younger guys have their time with their beloved game. But what a good run we've had. Thanks everyone.
Holy crap, get a load of this guy.
I bet you would've complained that you to pay 2 times to get the full SC1 game (vanilla + classic) back in the 90's.
You get the same amount of content for the price you pay now, just like back then, it's only that each race has about 20~30 missions in sequential order. (Terran (Tutorial missions + main game) -> Zerg (expansion) -> Protoss (expansion))
And you're a scrub if you don't give a fuck about the single player, because that's what the half of the game is.
And you know what, it's a good thing that people like you have decided to stay away from SC2.
Good, keep at it.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 24 2012 23:32 An2quamaraN wrote:
Seeing statements like this i am thankfull i am not a BW fan...such a childish talk.
That explains much about why are you trying defend SC2 so hard.
On April 24 2012 23:32 An2quamaraN wrote: What makes the game exciting is your approach to it and players you root for, i bet my hand you've never watched an intense sc2 match even
Hehehe... not only him, I didnt watch any "intense" SC2 match as well XD Sometimes when I'm bored i just play the vods of some games in SC2 and I'm shocked how even the least exiting vods in Company of Heroes can be more entertaining than this.
On April 24 2012 23:32 An2quamaraN wrote: SC2 is not even in it's half potential yet, it's too young, when the switch occurs, and bonjwas plays it, expansions come out i can not see the reason why SC2 shouldn't be bigger than BW.
I wish you to see it making bigger than. But why f.e. I, as BW fan, must be the part of it, when I dont find any pleasure with watching this?
On April 24 2012 23:32 An2quamaraN wrote: That's the reason i also can't understand why you people are sad, instead of being cheerful that your beloved players don't quit competetive scene.
Do i have to be excited that Małysz switched to car racing?
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On April 25 2012 00:12 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 23:33 Ricjames wrote:
My main concern is that BW had a special feeling to it. Stuff that was only in BW and you could not get it in any other game. Then Blizzard just waltz in (after doing nothing to promote or help bw) and build absolutely new game with a famous name attached to it (famous thanks to bw community and after everything it has done for BW compared to Blizzard's nothing) and say we give you SC2, look how cool it is. They make you pay for it 3 times and everyone is happy. Well, i did not like SC2 since i tried BETA, i did not like it when it was released and i don't like it at the moment. I might be speaking as a bw elitist, but guess what.... Imagine you have a very badass racing car and someone comes to you, gives you Prius and say look how cool it is. That is how i feel and everybody in my shoes would feel the same. Maybe this is afterall good for me as i can finally give up watching sc and let the younger guys have their time with their beloved game. But what a good run we've had. Thanks everyone. Holy crap, get a load of this guy. I bet you would've complained that you to pay 2 times to get the full SC1 game (vanilla + classic) back in the 90's. You get the same amount of content for the price you pay now, just like back then, it's only that each race has about 20~30 missions in sequential order. (Terran (Tutorial missions + main game) -> Zerg (expansion) -> Protoss (expansion)) And you're a scrub if you don't give a fuck about the single player, because that's what the half of the game is. And you know what, it's a good thing that people like you have decided to stay away from SC2. Good, keep at it.
Sc2 in malaysia is price at RM 250 for a game while broodwar I can get it for Rm 100 ..... So yeah I am lucky I didn't spend so much on a game like sc2 . Best money spent was on cs1.6, source and broodwar got cs 1.6 and half life anthology for at least RM 50 on steam and source Rm 70 .
Also if people don't give a damn about the single player doesn't mean they are scrub more likely they didn't enjoy for what it is .
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On April 24 2012 08:09 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 07:39 Nazza wrote:On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote:
Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.> I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
Having played both games a fair bit, I can tell you that immortal drops are nothing close to reaver harass. First of all immortals aren't AOE units, secondly warp prisms aren't nearly as essential as shuttles are in any P match-up. Plus you don't load and unload between shots for immortals like you do with reaver/shuttle. Nor do you see the type of loading/unloading + pulling shuttle back micro with immortal/warp prism in battles.
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On April 25 2012 00:40 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 00:12 JiPrime wrote:On April 24 2012 23:33 Ricjames wrote:
My main concern is that BW had a special feeling to it. Stuff that was only in BW and you could not get it in any other game. Then Blizzard just waltz in (after doing nothing to promote or help bw) and build absolutely new game with a famous name attached to it (famous thanks to bw community and after everything it has done for BW compared to Blizzard's nothing) and say we give you SC2, look how cool it is. They make you pay for it 3 times and everyone is happy. Well, i did not like SC2 since i tried BETA, i did not like it when it was released and i don't like it at the moment. I might be speaking as a bw elitist, but guess what.... Imagine you have a very badass racing car and someone comes to you, gives you Prius and say look how cool it is. That is how i feel and everybody in my shoes would feel the same. Maybe this is afterall good for me as i can finally give up watching sc and let the younger guys have their time with their beloved game. But what a good run we've had. Thanks everyone. Holy crap, get a load of this guy. I bet you would've complained that you to pay 2 times to get the full SC1 game (vanilla + classic) back in the 90's. You get the same amount of content for the price you pay now, just like back then, it's only that each race has about 20~30 missions in sequential order. (Terran (Tutorial missions + main game) -> Zerg (expansion) -> Protoss (expansion)) And you're a scrub if you don't give a fuck about the single player, because that's what the half of the game is. And you know what, it's a good thing that people like you have decided to stay away from SC2. Good, keep at it. Sc2 in malaysia is price at RM 250 for a game while broodwar I can get it for Rm 100 ..... So yeah I am lucky I didn't spend so much on a game like sc2 . Best money spent was on cs1.6, source and broodwar got cs 1.6 and half life anthology for at least RM 50 on steam and source Rm 70 . Also if people don't give a damn about the single player doesn't mean they are scrub more likely they didn't enjoy for what it is .
Please look at the price of BW when it was released, not the price after 10 years.
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On April 25 2012 00:25 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 23:32 An2quamaraN wrote:
Seeing statements like this i am thankfull i am not a BW fan...such a childish talk. That explains much about why are you trying defend SC2 so hard. Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 23:32 An2quamaraN wrote: What makes the game exciting is your approach to it and players you root for, i bet my hand you've never watched an intense sc2 match even Hehehe... not only him, I didnt watch any "intense" SC2 match as well XD Sometimes when I'm bored i just play the vods of some games in SC2 and I'm shocked how even the least exiting vods in Company of Heroes can be more entertaining than this. Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 23:32 An2quamaraN wrote: SC2 is not even in it's half potential yet, it's too young, when the switch occurs, and bonjwas plays it, expansions come out i can not see the reason why SC2 shouldn't be bigger than BW. I wish you to see it making bigger than. But why f.e. I, as BW fan, must be the part of it, when I dont find any pleasure with watching this? Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 23:32 An2quamaraN wrote: That's the reason i also can't understand why you people are sad, instead of being cheerful that your beloved players don't quit competetive scene. Do i have to be excited that Małysz switched to car racing?
Hitthat you are 100% correct about the intensity of a SC2 match, theres nothing to see that gives you some plus against other RTS games (I am talking about the old ones, not the new crappy versions of them), reality is SC2 is really popular because is the best new RTS game in the market and was sold as the succesor of SC:BW (the "perfect" RTS game), but compared with the classics, sorry but it goes far from those. The intensity of a BW match and a SC2 match is not even comparable, when you have seen a pro BW match, SC2 is just the stream that you keep in background and if you feel bored then you go and look at it to spend time.
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On April 25 2012 00:56 reincremate wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 08:09 Eee wrote:On April 24 2012 07:39 Nazza wrote:On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote:
Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.> I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T Having played both games a fair bit, I can tell you that immortal drops are nothing close to reaver harass. First of all immortals aren't AOE units, secondly warp prisms aren't nearly as essential as shuttles are in any P match-up. Plus you don't load and unload between shots for immortals like you do with reaver/shuttle. Nor do you ever see the type of loading/unloading + pulling shuttle back micro with immortal/warp prism.
There was a bit of that today in the GSL with an Immortal against Roaches, keeping the Immortal alive way longer than it should of been, it was pretty epic. But honestly, people are still pretty bad at SC2 in the micro department, yes you have the top guys that are pretty decent but even they don't use some strategies that would just be great to see.. There is an absolute tone of potential in the micro in SC2 that people haven't been using. There are a tone of strategies for Zerg that people don't use, such as drop play from overlords, using baneling drops against a group of fungalled marines while pulling off an amazing flank, magic boxing thors and splitting banelings against tanks, while counter dropping the terrans mineral line with upgraded banelings. The nydus is still a pretty unused utility that players haven't utilised yet. (using Zerg as an example as I play Zerg). I'm pretty confident the BW guys will come in, see the game and improve the micro and strategies a lot after practicing like they do already with BW.
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