On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
from the translation, it sounds like some of the coaches are jerking around... part of me wish they won't be stepping into sc2 territory. THey should continue with BW or another game they like, instead of something they resent. Only bad things come out of doing something you hate. And I feel that without enthusiasm in your work, you can let go and ruin something good. I just wish things are less forced...
On April 24 2012 05:58 Ideas wrote: the main reason SC2 isn't as fun to watch, for me, is because most of the core units just aren't nearly as interesting to watch engage each other as in BW. It just isn't fun to watch marauders stutter-step vs everything or watch mutas just fly on top of stuff and shoot. Yea the terran matchups have a lot of drops, but they are never that fun to watch because it's missing the exciting elements from BW such as vultures/mines, scourge, and (so some extent) micro.
Yep. Sound effects are worse too.
SC2 isn't bad. BW is simply a genius game. There are tons of great ideas in SC:BW that were totally new to RTSes (at least from what I can remember, having played C&C and Total Annihilation in the same era). SC2 kept some of these ideas (such as stim and larvae) but discarded the bulk of them (dark swarm, spider mines, reaver+shuttle, lurkers, scourge, etc.).
This would be fine if they were replaced by something interesting. But largely they weren't. Forcefields are a great new idea in SC2, but other than that, I can't think of much cool stuff SC2 has that BW didn't. The new HotS units mostly don't improve the situation.
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
I might reveal my SC2 ignorance here, but wouldn't immortal drops be more comparable to goliath drops in BW? The unit isn't hopelessly slow without a transport, and it doesn't have the explosive wow factor of reaver scarabs.
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
Immortal drops filling the role of Reaver drops? What? They're basically the equivalent to Tank drops without Seige Mode lol...
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
To be fair, SC2 really does have it's moments. For example, baneling landmines can bring a lot of little tense and exciting moments during a match. Broodlords also have a habit of morphing at just the very last possible second, which creates a lot of tension. Mutas dancing around/between thors/marines/turrets has given me my fair share of "oh shit" and "hell yeah" moments. Another example is hitting money transfuses - watching a pro hitting multiple transfuses to keep all of his big units alive and win a battle they otherwise could not have is one of the zen moments like "yes, this is how it should be". (Sorry for just Zerg examples, that's my main race).
Again, I'm not saying one game is better than the other and I'm not trying to convince any BW fans that they should be happy their favorite eSport may be dying, but I think SC2, despite it's flaws, should get credit for the good things it brings to the table.
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
I don't mind watching sc2 as long the game isn't about sitting on two bases than make a death ball and battle it out in the middle . I am hoping that I can see multiple drops and skirmishes all over the map and than players using that as an advantage to keep macroing and gain new bases at the same time . It will do a lot of justice to bw fans if sc2 can exhibits qualities like this so at least we old fans can admit that this game is really is "okay" .
Hopefully each game will be as action pack as bw did it in it's glorious days. Also I want to be on the edge of my seat in every sc2 games that are being played . Making me interested and nervous at every time a battle begins . This is a really simple request and I am sure sc2 is actually at the level of bw awesomeness .
Some games do have multiple stops. Still boring because well theres the drops and then you still got the rest of the game to watch. There are also times when the deathball just ignores the drop and brute forces its way into the main. Also because the rest of the game is not very entertaining because of reasons we've already covered and seriously I cbf bringing up again because it is like talking to a wall.
I never really get a kick out of BW's multiple drops unless they're unexpected/done with perfection anyway so theres that as well.
I mean, is that not real in BW too? Army is out of position to adequately defend a drop (or in the last big final, position behind your base), so the only thing you can do is take advantage of the opponent's lack of army and push out. There are almost never any 2 base vs 2 base max armies anymore, in fact, I haven't seen ANY in quite a long time. Sure, you have a lot of passive play (some European/NA Protosses come to mind the most), but what you're talking about happens in Gold and Diamond, not at the pro level.
The differences is that the units are more interesting. BW is a strategy game with the fun of mobile twitch type games. SC2 is a strategic game that is still being patched. Thats how I would describe the difference.
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
Immortal drops filling the role of Reaver drops? What? They're basically the equivalent to Tank drops without Seige Mode lol...
Baneling drops i guess would be the closest thing to reaver drops. A overlord with 4 +2 banelings can destroy a mineral line instantly.
Broodlords also have a habit of morphing at just the very last possible second, which creates a lot of tension. Mutas dancing around/between thors/marines/turrets has given me my fair share of "oh shit" and "hell yeah" moments. Another example is hitting money transfuses - watching a pro hitting multiple transfuses to keep all of his big units alive and win a battle they otherwise could not have is one of the zen moments like "yes, this is how it should be". (Sorry for just Zerg examples, that's my main race).
Most of that is just good timings, which can make for intense moments true- we have those too. Lurkers morphing at last minute, old school games with Guardians morphing in a hidden location.
But it's not the showmanship that exists in BW currently. And SC2 muta micro while neat is just another example where BW not only has it, but has a form that blows the SC2 equivalent out of the water.
And yeah, I think the best equivalent to the warprism-immortal is dropship-unsieged tanks.
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
IMMORTAL drops? Who the hell drops immortals? I see Colossi drops more often than I see immortal drops. They were stylish for like two weeks in PvP and that's it.
The closest equivalent to Reaver drops in SC2 is hellion drops, and I don't understand how anyone with even a passing familiarity with either game could think otherwise. I guess baneling drops have a case to be made for them, but I've only ever seen reavers and hellions killing 20 workers in a shot.
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
To be fair, SC2 really does have it's moments. For example, baneling landmines can bring a lot of little tense and exciting moments during a match. Broodlords also have a habit of morphing at just the very last possible second, which creates a lot of tension. Mutas dancing around/between thors/marines/turrets has given me my fair share of "oh shit" and "hell yeah" moments. Another example is hitting money transfuses - watching a pro hitting multiple transfuses to keep all of his big units alive and win a battle they otherwise could not have is one of the zen moments like "yes, this is how it should be". (Sorry for just Zerg examples, that's my main race).
Again, I'm not saying one game is better than the other and I'm not trying to convince any BW fans that they should be happy their favorite eSport may be dying, but I think SC2, despite it's flaws, should get credit for the good things it brings to the table.
as said before, all of your examples are things that are similar to stuff already in BW, but in a worse/less exciting form.
Well with the buff to the warp prism we see more drops, and the immortals drops are very good for sniping buildings, you come, drop 2 inmortals, transform the prism, warp zelots, with the zelots atack workers while the inmortals focuse the forge, ghost academy, roach warren or whatever building, when the army comes you load back the inmortals, run and use the zelots to create a distraction that let your drop ship with the immortals live.
Also now pros use High templars and load them to warp prims so they cant be EMPed, they drop the HT, storm, load again, its very impressive.
I must admit that protoss is the most "deathball" race in starcrat 2 but i think its because 1.- colossi, 2.- our units doesnt work well alone
a gruop of zelots= kite them forever a group of stalkers= stalker is the unit which benefits the less with upgrades compared to the roach and marauder so... in the late game it just die its like a meat shield that protects the colossi
I like what they are doing in host adding a recall in he nexus that look very interesting and the oracle its a good concept but idk i think it need something more.
I think starcraft 2 got a lot of potential and i dont think we have something similar to reaver drops, well i think im out of topic so... i dont think that coaches doesnt like the idea of playing starcraft i think they like the idea, obviously they'd still prefer to play BW but i dont see them crying or something for having to play starcraft 2 i think they are like "well we cannot play BW anymore like we were but sc2 isnt that bad you know"
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
IMMORTAL drops? Who the hell drops immortals? I see Colossi drops more often than I see immortal drops. They were stylish for like two weeks in PvP and that's it.
The closest equivalent to Reaver drops in SC2 is hellion drops, and I don't understand how anyone with even a passing familiarity with either game could think otherwise. I guess baneling drops have a case to be made for them, but I've only ever seen reavers and hellions killing 20 workers in a shot.
Ummm I wouldnt go talking trash and then say collosi drops are popular LOL. I have not seen a collosi drop in over 6 months... its a terrible idea. thats like a 1 Brood lord harass .... speed prism immortal drops are semi popular and can do suprising damage because you just cannot keep up with a speed prism. BUT the truly closes thing to reaver drops......... and I cant beleive you guys dont realize this.... and I cannot beleive its not used more ... especially with speed prism ... is HIGH TEMPLAR drops... drop a couple-few storms on a mineral line and tell me that doesnt have WOW factor
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
IMMORTAL drops? Who the hell drops immortals? I see Colossi drops more often than I see immortal drops. They were stylish for like two weeks in PvP and that's it.
The closest equivalent to Reaver drops in SC2 is hellion drops, and I don't understand how anyone with even a passing familiarity with either game could think otherwise. I guess baneling drops have a case to be made for them, but I've only ever seen reavers and hellions killing 20 workers in a shot.
Ummm I wouldnt go talking trash and then say collosi drops are popular LOL. I have not seen a collosi drop in over 6 months... its a terrible idea. thats like a 1 Brood lord harass .... speed prism immortal drops are semi popular and can do suprising damage because you just cannot keep up with a speed prism. BUT the truly closes thing to reaver drops......... and I cant beleive you guys dont realize this.... and I cannot beleive its not used more ... especially with speed prism ... is HIGH TEMPLAR drops... drop a couple-few storms on a mineral line and tell me that doesnt have WOW factor
yea storm drops are great
also I don't think blizzard is really going to be making the game much better with the expansions. they are unwilling to replace/change the more core units in the game that make it boring (marauders, colossi, etc) and instead are messing around with crap like replacing the thor with tinier more generic thors (honestly I think the thor is one of the more decent units in sc2) or giving the protoss a super late game anti-air unit -_-. Honestly I thought the shredder was one of the coolest ideas they had for SC2 but then got rid of it.
Sadly stuff like Reaver drops won't be in SC2 ever. People on SC2 whine too much for something so explosive and volatile to make it into the game. Storm is a poor shadow of what it was in BW and people are still whining that it kills stuff too fast......
On April 24 2012 09:10 Ideas wrote: Honestly I thought the shredder was one of the coolest ideas they had for SC2 but then got rid of it.
That's funny because I also thought that was potentially the best new unit in HotS, and I haven't been following expansion news so I didn't know they removed it...
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
IMMORTAL drops? Who the hell drops immortals? I see Colossi drops more often than I see immortal drops. They were stylish for like two weeks in PvP and that's it.
The closest equivalent to Reaver drops in SC2 is hellion drops, and I don't understand how anyone with even a passing familiarity with either game could think otherwise. I guess baneling drops have a case to be made for them, but I've only ever seen reavers and hellions killing 20 workers in a shot.
Immortal drops are popular but only used in pvp. It can be used to kill probes, stalkers or even snipe colossus.
Not sure what you mean they were stylish for only 2 weeks. Iv'e seen a game recently of JYP vs WhiteRa where they both opened speed prism with 2 immortals.
EPT
