EPTBW Head Coaches on SC2 - Page 45
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness. The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS. The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better. I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better. I don't mind watching sc2 as long the game isn't about sitting on two bases than make a death ball and battle it out in the middle . I am hoping that I can see multiple drops and skirmishes all over the map and than players using that as an advantage to keep macroing and gain new bases at the same time . It will do a lot of justice to bw fans if sc2 can exhibits qualities like this so at least we old fans can admit that this game is really is "okay" . Hopefully each game will be as action pack as bw did it in it's glorious days. Also I want to be on the edge of my seat in every sc2 games that are being played . Making me interested and nervous at every time a battle begins . This is a really simple request and I am sure sc2 is actually at the level of bw awesomeness . | ||
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Figgy
Canada1788 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS. The problem with SSBB was Metaknight was unbelievably broken and there was little anyone could do to fix this problem. He only had 2 bad match ups which he was only barely unfavourable anyways (Yoshi, and imo Kirby). Not enough tournaments banned Metaknight fast enough, making every higher end bracket with half the field using Metaknight and very little variation. | ||
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huehuehuehue
Estonia455 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:30 Sawamura wrote: I don't mind watching sc2 as long the game isn't about sitting on two bases than make a death ball and battle it out in the middle . I am hoping that I can see multiple drops and skirmishes all over the map and than players using that as an advantage to keep macroing and gain new bases at the same time . It will do a lot of justice to bw fans if sc2 can exhibits qualities like this so at least we old fans can admit that this game is really is "okay" . Hopefully each game will be as action pack as bw did it in it's glorious days. Also I want to be on the edge of my seat in every sc2 games that are being played . Making me interested and nervous at every time a battle begins . This is a really simple request and I am sure sc2 is actually at the level of bw awesomeness . TvZ kinda has that multiple drops & skirmishes thing. TvT to some extent too, but in TvT i find more exciting all of the buildorder metagaming etc.. But I kinda feel like PvZ is really lacking in that department, I find it a really boring matchup. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:54 huehuehuehue wrote: TvZ kinda has that multiple drops & skirmishes thing. TvT to some extent too, but in TvT i find more exciting all of the buildorder metagaming etc.. But I kinda feel like PvZ is really lacking in that department, I find it a really boring matchup. What has build order got to do with meta gaming ? | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:44 Figgy wrote: The problem with SSBB was Metaknight was unbelievably broken and there was little anyone could do to fix this problem. He only had 2 bad match ups which he was only barely unfavourable anyways (Yoshi, and imo Kirby). Not enough tournaments banned Metaknight fast enough, making every higher end bracket with half the field using Metaknight and very little variation. S tier was only Snake and MK. Snake wasn't even that great, but he could deal with MK. Tournaments banned MK too late  However, Project M is amazing for SSBB if you haven't played it yet. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:30 Sawamura wrote: I don't mind watching sc2 as long the game isn't about sitting on two bases than make a death ball and battle it out in the middle . I am hoping that I can see multiple drops and skirmishes all over the map and than players using that as an advantage to keep macroing and gain new bases at the same time . It will do a lot of justice to bw fans if sc2 can exhibits qualities like this so at least we old fans can admit that this game is really is "okay" . Hopefully each game will be as action pack as bw did it in it's glorious days. Also I want to be on the edge of my seat in every sc2 games that are being played . Making me interested and nervous at every time a battle begins . This is a really simple request and I am sure sc2 is actually at the level of bw awesomeness . I'm glad you're such an expert on SC2, you clearly watched Dreamhack this weekend. | ||
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TrainSamurai
339 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:30 Sawamura wrote: I don't mind watching sc2 as long the game isn't about sitting on two bases than make a death ball and battle it out in the middle . I am hoping that I can see multiple drops and skirmishes all over the map and than players using that as an advantage to keep macroing and gain new bases at the same time . It will do a lot of justice to bw fans if sc2 can exhibits qualities like this so at least we old fans can admit that this game is really is "okay" . Hopefully each game will be as action pack as bw did it in it's glorious days. Also I want to be on the edge of my seat in every sc2 games that are being played . Making me interested and nervous at every time a battle begins . This is a really simple request and I am sure sc2 is actually at the level of bw awesomeness . Some games do have multiple stops. Still boring because well theres the drops and then you still got the rest of the game to watch. There are also times when the deathball just ignores the drop and brute forces its way into the main. Also because the rest of the game is not very entertaining because of reasons we've already covered and seriously I cbf bringing up again because it is like talking to a wall. I never really get a kick out of BW's multiple drops unless they're unexpected/done with perfection anyway so theres that as well. | ||
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jdsowa
405 Posts
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huehuehuehue
Estonia455 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:56 Sawamura wrote: What has build order got to do with meta gaming ? I don't know how to explain it well, but by that i mean things like researching caducus reactor (or whatever the fucks that called)when the enemy scans you're base so he thinks you are going cloak banshee so he overprepares with turrets and stuff. And then all other kinds of stuff like that, faking enemys out with gas timings etc, I don't know how to explain it :o. | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
It's both a interesting and quite a tense time for all of these teams. It might work, it might not. Players basically are forced to switch to a game they just might not necessarily enjoy. Because it is different. And each and everyone of these young guys, even if we don't see them on broadcasted games fights his own battle to someday break out. This is a turning point. For some it's a chance, for some maybe the clicking realization that they are the last professional Brood Wars generation and all their passion can't help overcome the fact that the industry is on struggling grounds. For what they hoped one day to accomplish with their game of choice, of love might not even be possible anymore. But it is their job. And as such they are driven into this position of do or leave. Try or quit. And maybe you know what? Maybe some of them find swimming in this new river holds to be the adventure they are seeking for. Giving them a fighting chance to be the one needle in a haystack, ready to be found. New stories may be told. New heroes may be born. New legends are formed. And their name might be written down, if the story goes on... I will be watching. At least to give them all a chance  | ||
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Supah
708 Posts
On April 24 2012 00:01 TrainSamurai wrote: Some games do have multiple stops. Still boring because well theres the drops and then you still got the rest of the game to watch. There are also times when the deathball just ignores the drop and brute forces its way into the main. Also because the rest of the game is not very entertaining because of reasons we've already covered and seriously I cbf bringing up again because it is like talking to a wall. I never really get a kick out of BW's multiple drops unless they're unexpected/done with perfection anyway so theres that as well. I mean, is that not real in BW too? Army is out of position to adequately defend a drop (or in the last big final, position behind your base), so the only thing you can do is take advantage of the opponent's lack of army and push out. There are almost never any 2 base vs 2 base max armies anymore, in fact, I haven't seen ANY in quite a long time. Sure, you have a lot of passive play (some European/NA Protosses come to mind the most), but what you're talking about happens in Gold and Diamond, not at the pro level. | ||
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arcane1129
United States271 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:44 Figgy wrote: The problem with SSBB was Metaknight was unbelievably broken and there was little anyone could do to fix this problem. He only had 2 bad match ups which he was only barely unfavourable anyways (Yoshi, and imo Kirby). Not enough tournaments banned Metaknight fast enough, making every higher end bracket with half the field using Metaknight and very little variation. Metaknight has never had an issue with Yoshi and Kirby, lol. The characters that stacked up relatively well vs him were Diddy, Ice Climbers, and kind of Snake, Falco, Olimar, and a couple of others. The Smash community was also never ruined; there are still a ton of tournaments happening for both games. It's just that a lot of the Melee veterans are getting older and Brawl had garbage online and no developer support (while competing with games like SSF4, SC2, League, etc). Plus, there just isn't the money available for smash to justify all the travel considering that most tournaments for the games are grass roots, not sponsored tournies like other games. | ||
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2012 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:54 huehuehuehue wrote: TvZ kinda has that multiple drops & skirmishes thing. TvT to some extent too, but in TvT i find more exciting all of the buildorder metagaming etc.. But I kinda feel like PvZ is really lacking in that department, I find it a really boring matchup. In short, every mu with Protoss is really bad in SC2, but TvT and TvZ, even ZvZ to some extent are pretty good. Blizzard just dosen't have an idea what to do with toss overall. | ||
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Ideas
United States8137 Posts
On April 24 2012 04:41 Darksoldierr wrote: In short, every mu with Protoss is really bad in SC2, but TvT and TvZ, even ZvZ to some extent are pretty good. Blizzard just dosen't have an idea what to do with toss overall. the problem with protoss is that warpgrates caused all the gateways units to be a lot weaker (comparatively) and it completely fucked up the dynamics that were in BW. the main reason SC2 isn't as fun to watch, for me, is because most of the core units just aren't nearly as interesting to watch engage each other as in BW. It just isn't fun to watch marauders stutter-step vs everything or watch mutas just fly on top of stuff and shoot. Yea the terran matchups have a lot of drops, but they are never that fun to watch because it's missing the exciting elements from BW such as vultures/mines, scourge, and (so some extent) micro. TvP is so boring compared to BW becuase it is missing all the diversity that comes in that MU. there is no reaver harass (or equivelent), no mine-laying and vulture harass (or do people harass with hellions/reapers now?), siege tanks are never used, no arbitors, etc. From 99% of all the SC2 TvPs I've seen, it's just a big MMM ball (with or without vikings to kill colossi or some ghosts to throw out EMPs) vs a gateway army of zeals/stalkers/templars/sentries (and maybe archons or immortals) with the terran doing some drops and stuff. It's most similar to a zerg attacking a protoss gateway army in BW with just hydras (but you don't have to micro your zealots to get a surround becuase they do that automatically). Yea storm dodging can be cool, but generally that is one of the more boring unit encounters in BW because there's just not much else going on. honestly I never thought TvZ in SC2 was so much better than the other matchups, but that's probably because I play zerg and always get pissed off about how they removed every fun aspect of htat match-up (defilers, muta micro, scourge, vessels, lurkers) | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On April 24 2012 00:12 jdsowa wrote: I'm 31. I basically stopped playing and following video games years before BW came out. I started playing SC2 out of the blue last year. I find BW hard to follow. Even though I favor NES, SNES, and Genesis games, the BW graphics seem especially crude to me. I would like to see Blizzard add more variety to SC2. WC3 has 4 races, with about 20 units per. "Hi, I am an old man who doesn't know anything about video games. Please watch my Bejeweled video stream." JK but this is a silly thing to say. No one is gonna claim that BW is literally for everyone, but it is an intellectual game which appeals to a very long lasting audience. Not everyone likes Chess or Go, but for those who do it is a very deep game which goes beyond cheap entertainment.WC3 was an interesting game, but having 4 races was not the reason. It's racial balance and map balance was actually one of its biggest failings, what made it interesting was its innovative hero system and army focused gameplay. To look at the very surface of the game... sure having lots of units and 4 races is a selling point on the back of the cardboard box, but that says nothing else about it. SC2 could have had 6 races if Blizzard wanted to go that direction, but clearly there was a desire to recreate what BW had done with three very distinct races... and actually this is the failing point for many BW fans, as the races don't feel as distinct or special. | ||
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geno
United States1404 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:30 Sawamura wrote: I don't mind watching sc2 as long the game isn't about sitting on two bases than make a death ball and battle it out in the middle . I am hoping that I can see multiple drops and skirmishes all over the map and than players using that as an advantage to keep macroing and gain new bases at the same time . It will do a lot of justice to bw fans if sc2 can exhibits qualities like this so at least we old fans can admit that this game is really is "okay" . Hopefully each game will be as action pack as bw did it in it's glorious days. Also I want to be on the edge of my seat in every sc2 games that are being played . Making me interested and nervous at every time a battle begins . This is a really simple request and I am sure sc2 is actually at the level of bw awesomeness . This will come with time. It was definitely like this in the majority of 2011, especially in the foreigner scene, but at this point it's diverged quite a bit from the 2-base, max-ball, push out game it used to be. You'll still see games like that every now and then, but its getting rarer and rarer, and the people who stick with that playstyle are getting farther and farther behind. I think the best intro to SC2 BW fans can get is watching some FPV streams of Hero. He was the first (Protoss) player that I watched and realized how much more similar SC2 is to BW than I used to think. The lack of multitasking and harass and the like wasn't a result of it being a different game, it was just a symptom of it being a NEW game, and no one being good enough to mix it in yet. | ||
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JeffGoldblum
Cook Islands191 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:29 ShadeR wrote: 'Metagame' is also a word without definition lawl. "The use of out-of-game information or resources to affect one's in-game decisions." | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On April 24 2012 07:27 JeffGoldblum wrote: "The use of out-of-game information or resources to affect one's in-game decisions." YES, finally someone who actually knows what the fuck metagame means. I fucking hate when people say 'the current metagame is fast marine marauder push at 5 mins', when they actually meant the current 'trend'. Also fuck who says push when they mean attack. Push is push (like tank leap frogging), attack is attack. | ||
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amazingoopah
United States1925 Posts
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