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So what... they are going to mix SC1 and SC2 games, like if team 1 and team 2 compete best out of 20 they will have 10 games of sc1 and 10 games of sc2?? My head hurts.... makes no sense....
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On April 14 2012 19:20 morlakaix wrote:
I am a fan of both scenes, but why do BW fans have to be SO fucking bitter about sc2.
In all of the communties I have been a part of, the BW fans have been the most elitist, knowitall group I have ever met, not sure why they can't just accept a new game coming in(and it's not even REPLACING BW, its just going to be aside it)
Maybe people should just have an open mind, ever though of that?
Or maybe, you guys can stop coming in here saying "yay! SC2 expansion guys, what do you guys feel?" while we're watching our game get ripped to shreds?
Maybe you can stop using that "SC2 is growing" as if it's an actual argument that we should accept SC2 as a legitimate sport when we personally feel one game is clearly superior over the other.
That's the only argument I ever see from the SC2 kids coming in here and trampling on BW fans who are looking for any BW material. The fact that our material is getting curb stomped by SC2 should explain why we're bitter, but nope, SC2 kids are pretty narrow minded imo.
We might be elitist, but we often don't really comment a lot on new games in a negative light. After all, BW has been around for a million years. It's when SC2 people come in here and start spouting off nonsense while there is a visible impact on BW scene because of SC2. What is that fucking supposed to make us feel? Happy?
On April 14 2012 18:41 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 18:35 deathgod6 wrote:
^ "People" tend to root for the underdog, especially in 1vs1 games.
Why do you put people in quotation marks? That makes no sense. Oops. I was going to distinguish between normal people/casual and more hardcore fans, who do like the dominant player. Show nested quote +And no, I don't think they would root for a random rookie who hasn't proven himself over Flash. Well, no, not if he's just some jobber. Show nested quote +Sure close games or awesome plays might inspire a fan base but I'm pretty sure people don't consciously think of who has a less chance of winning and automatically root for him. I actually do. I nearly always root against Flash/Jaedong :/ (Not Bisu, though, because it's his OSL etc, and that's a perfectly good story)
I suppose I shouldn't be acting like BW doesn't have stories at all, which wasn't exactly what I meant. What I meant was is, with the exception of the Legend of the Fall (which DID attract SC2 fans), the main thing SC2 people know about the BW scene is that Flash is God, and always will be. Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 18:34 TrainSamurai wrote:
We're not angry that BW is dying. What we're not cool with is the fact that external forces played a large part in killing BW Bullshit. BW's problems are because Savior ruined the game's image, and the game was 100% dependent on that image because BW fans were too spoiled to pay for it, meaning sponsor money was the only money. The Korean SC2 scene doesn't matter, and the foreign BW scene has never been relevant.
That's not our fault. That's the fault of narrow minded SC2 players who don't actually invest time in finding out why we love the game so much. There are plenty of SC2 players who do invest time, but a good portion of them just come in here, and bullshit their way out of flame by saying "OH, BUT I LOVE BOTH GAMES."
Also, Savior did not ruin the game's image (at least to fans. I'm told that I'm 100% wrong so I'm just being an ignorant snob in the paragraph that follows). Matchfixing was a scandal, but that's like saying matchfixing in tennis, or football, would ruin that game's image too, and there are plenty of people who still heavily respect Savior. In my opinion, it was always the image of the player, not the game that got hurt. I don't understand how matchfixing in an e-sport would have adverse effects if that wasn't necessarily the case in real sports.
You might be right that BW is dependent on that image, but I have a theory that it's more or less because there were hot guys playing BW (Bisu, Reach, Nada, Boxer, Leta is cute, Flash is cute).
On the other hand SC2........wut
On April 14 2012 19:57 morlakaix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 19:21 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 14 2012 18:41 Ribbon wrote:On April 14 2012 18:34 TrainSamurai wrote:
We're not angry that BW is dying. What we're not cool with is the fact that external forces played a large part in killing BW Bullshit. BW's problems are because Savior ruined the game's image, and the game was 100% dependent on that image because BW fans were too spoiled to pay for it, meaning sponsor money was the only money. The Korean SC2 scene doesn't matter, and the foreign BW scene has never been relevant. External to the game. Savior match fixing didn't give lurkers -50 atk. The game is still good as ever. Are we talking about the eSports scene or the game itself here? On April 14 2012 19:20 morlakaix wrote:
I am a fan of both scenes, but why do BW fans have to be SO fucking bitter about sc2.
In all of the communties I have been a part of, the BW fans have been the most elitist, knowitall group I have ever met, not sure why they can't just accept a new game coming in(and it's not even REPLACING BW, its just going to be aside it)
Maybe people should just have an open mind, ever though of that? I don't know about anyone else, but if it switches to SC2 I would still follow somewhat. Having BW AND SC2 joint league, however, is like having a CS 1.6 and CS:S joint league, or LoL and Dota 2 joint league. In the end, having two separate games in a same league is like saying Soccer and Baseball should be joined together for a joint World Cup series. "LoL and Dota 2" Oh god nevermind, LoL is a terrible game. You can't really compare BW vs SC2 with Lol vs Dota2 though.... SC2 isnt a TERRIBLE game
It was terrible enough that after getting excited about it after beta, I dropped it after two weeks.
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Australia1191 Posts
On April 14 2012 20:50 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 19:20 morlakaix wrote:
I am a fan of both scenes, but why do BW fans have to be SO fucking bitter about sc2.
In all of the communties I have been a part of, the BW fans have been the most elitist, knowitall group I have ever met, not sure why they can't just accept a new game coming in(and it's not even REPLACING BW, its just going to be aside it)
Maybe people should just have an open mind, ever though of that? Or maybe, you guys can stop coming in here saying "yay! SC2 expansion guys, what do you guys feel?" while we're watching our game get ripped to shreds? Maybe you can stop using that "SC2 is growing" as if it's an actual argument that we should accept SC2 as a legitimate sport when we personally feel one game is clearly superior over the other. That's the only argument I ever see from the SC2 kids coming in here and trampling on BW fans who are looking for any BW material. The fact that our material is getting curb stomped by SC2 should explain why we're bitter, but nope, SC2 kids are pretty narrow minded imo. We might be elitist, but we often don't really comment a lot on new games in a negative light. After all, BW has been around for a million years. It's when SC2 people come in here and start spouting off nonsense while there is a visible impact on BW scene because of SC2. What is that fucking supposed to make us feel? Happy? Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 18:41 Ribbon wrote:On April 14 2012 18:35 deathgod6 wrote:
^ "People" tend to root for the underdog, especially in 1vs1 games.
Why do you put people in quotation marks? That makes no sense. Oops. I was going to distinguish between normal people/casual and more hardcore fans, who do like the dominant player. And no, I don't think they would root for a random rookie who hasn't proven himself over Flash. Well, no, not if he's just some jobber. Sure close games or awesome plays might inspire a fan base but I'm pretty sure people don't consciously think of who has a less chance of winning and automatically root for him. I actually do. I nearly always root against Flash/Jaedong :/ (Not Bisu, though, because it's his OSL etc, and that's a perfectly good story)
I suppose I shouldn't be acting like BW doesn't have stories at all, which wasn't exactly what I meant. What I meant was is, with the exception of the Legend of the Fall (which DID attract SC2 fans), the main thing SC2 people know about the BW scene is that Flash is God, and always will be. On April 14 2012 18:34 TrainSamurai wrote:
We're not angry that BW is dying. What we're not cool with is the fact that external forces played a large part in killing BW Bullshit. BW's problems are because Savior ruined the game's image, and the game was 100% dependent on that image because BW fans were too spoiled to pay for it, meaning sponsor money was the only money. The Korean SC2 scene doesn't matter, and the foreign BW scene has never been relevant. That's not our fault. That's the fault of narrow minded SC2 players who don't actually invest time in finding out why we love the game so much. There are plenty of SC2 players who do invest time, but a good portion of them just come in here, and bullshit their way out of flame by saying "OH, BUT I LOVE BOTH GAMES." Also, Savior did not ruin the game's image (at least to fans. I'm told that I'm 100% wrong so I'm just being an ignorant snob in the paragraph that follows). Matchfixing was a scandal, but that's like saying matchfixing in tennis, or football, would ruin that game's image too, and there are plenty of people who still heavily respect Savior. In my opinion, it was always the image of the player, not the game that got hurt. I don't understand how matchfixing in an e-sport would have adverse effects if that wasn't necessarily the case in real sports. You might be right that BW is dependent on that image, but I have a theory that it's more or less because there were hot guys playing BW (Bisu, Reach, Nada, Boxer, Leta is cute, Flash is cute). On the other hand SC2........wut Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 19:57 morlakaix wrote:On April 14 2012 19:21 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 14 2012 18:41 Ribbon wrote:On April 14 2012 18:34 TrainSamurai wrote:
We're not angry that BW is dying. What we're not cool with is the fact that external forces played a large part in killing BW Bullshit. BW's problems are because Savior ruined the game's image, and the game was 100% dependent on that image because BW fans were too spoiled to pay for it, meaning sponsor money was the only money. The Korean SC2 scene doesn't matter, and the foreign BW scene has never been relevant. External to the game. Savior match fixing didn't give lurkers -50 atk. The game is still good as ever. Are we talking about the eSports scene or the game itself here? On April 14 2012 19:20 morlakaix wrote:
I am a fan of both scenes, but why do BW fans have to be SO fucking bitter about sc2.
In all of the communties I have been a part of, the BW fans have been the most elitist, knowitall group I have ever met, not sure why they can't just accept a new game coming in(and it's not even REPLACING BW, its just going to be aside it)
Maybe people should just have an open mind, ever though of that? I don't know about anyone else, but if it switches to SC2 I would still follow somewhat. Having BW AND SC2 joint league, however, is like having a CS 1.6 and CS:S joint league, or LoL and Dota 2 joint league. In the end, having two separate games in a same league is like saying Soccer and Baseball should be joined together for a joint World Cup series. "LoL and Dota 2" Oh god nevermind, LoL is a terrible game. You can't really compare BW vs SC2 with Lol vs Dota2 though.... SC2 isnt a TERRIBLE game It was terrible enough that after getting excited about it after beta, I dropped it after two weeks.
Being a BW fan does not give you the right to use dumb phrases such as "SC2 Kids" and imply SC2 progamers aren't attractive. Your post makes you sound like a jerk...
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1019 Posts
On April 14 2012 18:41 Ribbon wrote:
Bullshit. BW's problems are because Savior ruined the game's image, and the game was 100% dependent on that image because BW fans were too spoiled to pay for it, meaning sponsor money was the only money. The Korean SC2 scene doesn't matter, and the foreign BW scene has never been relevant.
I find it incredibly annoying that you continue making pointed shots at BW fans who you assume are apparantly too "spoiled" to pay for watching. Many professional sports in korea depend on sponsorship and corporate backing. Thats just the way some things work there. American sports teams aren't sponsored by big companies - Korean teams are. There's a difference.
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BW pros and fans are way more attractive than the average SC2 pro and fans though, just take a look at the BW events crowd filled with many korean beautiful girls and MLGs filled with a so many ugly white nerd guys :z
Of course there are exceptions for both sides, but in the average BW crowd and pros are better looking than SC2 crowd and pros.
And of course attractiveness is subjective and no one can really be objective about all of that, so all that I said can be refuted with ease.
But why are we discussing this subject at all? :|
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On April 14 2012 22:37 ZodaSoda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 20:50 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 14 2012 19:20 morlakaix wrote:
I am a fan of both scenes, but why do BW fans have to be SO fucking bitter about sc2.
In all of the communties I have been a part of, the BW fans have been the most elitist, knowitall group I have ever met, not sure why they can't just accept a new game coming in(and it's not even REPLACING BW, its just going to be aside it)
Maybe people should just have an open mind, ever though of that? Or maybe, you guys can stop coming in here saying "yay! SC2 expansion guys, what do you guys feel?" while we're watching our game get ripped to shreds? Maybe you can stop using that "SC2 is growing" as if it's an actual argument that we should accept SC2 as a legitimate sport when we personally feel one game is clearly superior over the other. That's the only argument I ever see from the SC2 kids coming in here and trampling on BW fans who are looking for any BW material. The fact that our material is getting curb stomped by SC2 should explain why we're bitter, but nope, SC2 kids are pretty narrow minded imo. We might be elitist, but we often don't really comment a lot on new games in a negative light. After all, BW has been around for a million years. It's when SC2 people come in here and start spouting off nonsense while there is a visible impact on BW scene because of SC2. What is that fucking supposed to make us feel? Happy? On April 14 2012 18:41 Ribbon wrote:On April 14 2012 18:35 deathgod6 wrote:
^ "People" tend to root for the underdog, especially in 1vs1 games.
Why do you put people in quotation marks? That makes no sense. Oops. I was going to distinguish between normal people/casual and more hardcore fans, who do like the dominant player. And no, I don't think they would root for a random rookie who hasn't proven himself over Flash. Well, no, not if he's just some jobber. Sure close games or awesome plays might inspire a fan base but I'm pretty sure people don't consciously think of who has a less chance of winning and automatically root for him. I actually do. I nearly always root against Flash/Jaedong :/ (Not Bisu, though, because it's his OSL etc, and that's a perfectly good story)
I suppose I shouldn't be acting like BW doesn't have stories at all, which wasn't exactly what I meant. What I meant was is, with the exception of the Legend of the Fall (which DID attract SC2 fans), the main thing SC2 people know about the BW scene is that Flash is God, and always will be. On April 14 2012 18:34 TrainSamurai wrote:
We're not angry that BW is dying. What we're not cool with is the fact that external forces played a large part in killing BW Bullshit. BW's problems are because Savior ruined the game's image, and the game was 100% dependent on that image because BW fans were too spoiled to pay for it, meaning sponsor money was the only money. The Korean SC2 scene doesn't matter, and the foreign BW scene has never been relevant. That's not our fault. That's the fault of narrow minded SC2 players who don't actually invest time in finding out why we love the game so much. There are plenty of SC2 players who do invest time, but a good portion of them just come in here, and bullshit their way out of flame by saying "OH, BUT I LOVE BOTH GAMES." Also, Savior did not ruin the game's image (at least to fans. I'm told that I'm 100% wrong so I'm just being an ignorant snob in the paragraph that follows). Matchfixing was a scandal, but that's like saying matchfixing in tennis, or football, would ruin that game's image too, and there are plenty of people who still heavily respect Savior. In my opinion, it was always the image of the player, not the game that got hurt. I don't understand how matchfixing in an e-sport would have adverse effects if that wasn't necessarily the case in real sports. You might be right that BW is dependent on that image, but I have a theory that it's more or less because there were hot guys playing BW (Bisu, Reach, Nada, Boxer, Leta is cute, Flash is cute). On the other hand SC2........wut On April 14 2012 19:57 morlakaix wrote:On April 14 2012 19:21 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 14 2012 18:41 Ribbon wrote:On April 14 2012 18:34 TrainSamurai wrote:
We're not angry that BW is dying. What we're not cool with is the fact that external forces played a large part in killing BW Bullshit. BW's problems are because Savior ruined the game's image, and the game was 100% dependent on that image because BW fans were too spoiled to pay for it, meaning sponsor money was the only money. The Korean SC2 scene doesn't matter, and the foreign BW scene has never been relevant. External to the game. Savior match fixing didn't give lurkers -50 atk. The game is still good as ever. Are we talking about the eSports scene or the game itself here? On April 14 2012 19:20 morlakaix wrote:
I am a fan of both scenes, but why do BW fans have to be SO fucking bitter about sc2.
In all of the communties I have been a part of, the BW fans have been the most elitist, knowitall group I have ever met, not sure why they can't just accept a new game coming in(and it's not even REPLACING BW, its just going to be aside it)
Maybe people should just have an open mind, ever though of that? I don't know about anyone else, but if it switches to SC2 I would still follow somewhat. Having BW AND SC2 joint league, however, is like having a CS 1.6 and CS:S joint league, or LoL and Dota 2 joint league. In the end, having two separate games in a same league is like saying Soccer and Baseball should be joined together for a joint World Cup series. "LoL and Dota 2" Oh god nevermind, LoL is a terrible game. You can't really compare BW vs SC2 with Lol vs Dota2 though.... SC2 isnt a TERRIBLE game It was terrible enough that after getting excited about it after beta, I dropped it after two weeks. Being a BW fan does not give you the right to use dumb phrases such as "SC2 Kids" and imply SC2 progamers aren't attractive. Your post makes you sound like a jerk...
When SC2 fans come in here and trash stuff up and make a bad impression, a think "kids" is the appropriate term for them. I don't imply that they're all kids, but there's no doubt in my mind that there are plenty of narrow minded SC2 fans who don't really understand BW, and instead come in here with bogus ass arguments about "making e-sports better". I don't admit to understanding SC2 at all, but then again, I don't go around tramping in the SC2 forums anyway. The reason why I'm no longer even that active is because there's been so much stupid shit that I mostly don't even bother with unless it's downright stupid.
People come in here and continue talking business and e-sports, and as long as they keep doing that, I see no reason to keep saying that those people are making retarded arguments to people who just want to see more BW. I've been around for pretty long (relatively speaking to the SC2 explosion), and I have never seen shit as dumb as this e-sports garbage.
Also, what I'm saying isn't an implication, it's a fact. A lot of fangirls flocked around famous progamers because they're really fucking good looking. People just don't say it since it's a personal thing. I'm not going to go any further, but it's not like I'm speaking out and saying that people are downright ugly, and it's not like saying that every BW player is a statue carved by god. The fact of the matter is, a good reason why BW got so popular is because a lot of the really good players were good looking.
There aren't a lot of people with the same attractiveness as a Bisu or Reach, or in SC2 I guess Nada/Boxer. There isn't anything antagonistic about it. It's just how it is.
On April 14 2012 22:58 fabiano wrote:
BW pros and fans are way more attractive than the average SC2 pro and fans though, just take a look at the BW events crowd filled with many korean beautiful girls and MLGs filled with a so many ugly white nerd guys :z
Of course there are exceptions for both sides, but in the average BW crowd and pros are better looking than SC2 crowd and pros.
And of course attractiveness is subjective and no one can really be objective about all of that, so all that I said can be refuted with ease.
But why are we discussing this subject at all? :|
It was honestly a snide comment in passing. It's out of sarcasm and mild frustration, so I probably should apologize. 
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Who do I not think is good enough? :O
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On April 14 2012 23:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 22:37 ZodaSoda wrote:On April 14 2012 20:50 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 14 2012 19:20 morlakaix wrote:
I am a fan of both scenes, but why do BW fans have to be SO fucking bitter about sc2.
In all of the communties I have been a part of, the BW fans have been the most elitist, knowitall group I have ever met, not sure why they can't just accept a new game coming in(and it's not even REPLACING BW, its just going to be aside it)
Maybe people should just have an open mind, ever though of that? Or maybe, you guys can stop coming in here saying "yay! SC2 expansion guys, what do you guys feel?" while we're watching our game get ripped to shreds? Maybe you can stop using that "SC2 is growing" as if it's an actual argument that we should accept SC2 as a legitimate sport when we personally feel one game is clearly superior over the other. That's the only argument I ever see from the SC2 kids coming in here and trampling on BW fans who are looking for any BW material. The fact that our material is getting curb stomped by SC2 should explain why we're bitter, but nope, SC2 kids are pretty narrow minded imo. We might be elitist, but we often don't really comment a lot on new games in a negative light. After all, BW has been around for a million years. It's when SC2 people come in here and start spouting off nonsense while there is a visible impact on BW scene because of SC2. What is that fucking supposed to make us feel? Happy? On April 14 2012 18:41 Ribbon wrote:On April 14 2012 18:35 deathgod6 wrote:
^ "People" tend to root for the underdog, especially in 1vs1 games.
Why do you put people in quotation marks? That makes no sense. Oops. I was going to distinguish between normal people/casual and more hardcore fans, who do like the dominant player. And no, I don't think they would root for a random rookie who hasn't proven himself over Flash. Well, no, not if he's just some jobber. Sure close games or awesome plays might inspire a fan base but I'm pretty sure people don't consciously think of who has a less chance of winning and automatically root for him. I actually do. I nearly always root against Flash/Jaedong :/ (Not Bisu, though, because it's his OSL etc, and that's a perfectly good story)
I suppose I shouldn't be acting like BW doesn't have stories at all, which wasn't exactly what I meant. What I meant was is, with the exception of the Legend of the Fall (which DID attract SC2 fans), the main thing SC2 people know about the BW scene is that Flash is God, and always will be. On April 14 2012 18:34 TrainSamurai wrote:
We're not angry that BW is dying. What we're not cool with is the fact that external forces played a large part in killing BW Bullshit. BW's problems are because Savior ruined the game's image, and the game was 100% dependent on that image because BW fans were too spoiled to pay for it, meaning sponsor money was the only money. The Korean SC2 scene doesn't matter, and the foreign BW scene has never been relevant. That's not our fault. That's the fault of narrow minded SC2 players who don't actually invest time in finding out why we love the game so much. There are plenty of SC2 players who do invest time, but a good portion of them just come in here, and bullshit their way out of flame by saying "OH, BUT I LOVE BOTH GAMES." Also, Savior did not ruin the game's image (at least to fans. I'm told that I'm 100% wrong so I'm just being an ignorant snob in the paragraph that follows). Matchfixing was a scandal, but that's like saying matchfixing in tennis, or football, would ruin that game's image too, and there are plenty of people who still heavily respect Savior. In my opinion, it was always the image of the player, not the game that got hurt. I don't understand how matchfixing in an e-sport would have adverse effects if that wasn't necessarily the case in real sports. You might be right that BW is dependent on that image, but I have a theory that it's more or less because there were hot guys playing BW (Bisu, Reach, Nada, Boxer, Leta is cute, Flash is cute). On the other hand SC2........wut On April 14 2012 19:57 morlakaix wrote:On April 14 2012 19:21 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 14 2012 18:41 Ribbon wrote:On April 14 2012 18:34 TrainSamurai wrote:
We're not angry that BW is dying. What we're not cool with is the fact that external forces played a large part in killing BW Bullshit. BW's problems are because Savior ruined the game's image, and the game was 100% dependent on that image because BW fans were too spoiled to pay for it, meaning sponsor money was the only money. The Korean SC2 scene doesn't matter, and the foreign BW scene has never been relevant. External to the game. Savior match fixing didn't give lurkers -50 atk. The game is still good as ever. Are we talking about the eSports scene or the game itself here? On April 14 2012 19:20 morlakaix wrote:
I am a fan of both scenes, but why do BW fans have to be SO fucking bitter about sc2.
In all of the communties I have been a part of, the BW fans have been the most elitist, knowitall group I have ever met, not sure why they can't just accept a new game coming in(and it's not even REPLACING BW, its just going to be aside it)
Maybe people should just have an open mind, ever though of that? I don't know about anyone else, but if it switches to SC2 I would still follow somewhat. Having BW AND SC2 joint league, however, is like having a CS 1.6 and CS:S joint league, or LoL and Dota 2 joint league. In the end, having two separate games in a same league is like saying Soccer and Baseball should be joined together for a joint World Cup series. "LoL and Dota 2" Oh god nevermind, LoL is a terrible game. You can't really compare BW vs SC2 with Lol vs Dota2 though.... SC2 isnt a TERRIBLE game It was terrible enough that after getting excited about it after beta, I dropped it after two weeks. Being a BW fan does not give you the right to use dumb phrases such as "SC2 Kids" and imply SC2 progamers aren't attractive. Your post makes you sound like a jerk... When SC2 fans come in here and trash stuff up and make a bad impression, a think "kids" is the appropriate term for them. I don't imply that they're all kids, but there's no doubt in my mind that there are plenty of narrow minded SC2 fans who don't really understand BW, and instead come in here with bogus ass arguments about "making e-sports better". I don't admit to understanding SC2 at all, but then again, I don't go around tramping in the SC2 forums anyway. The reason why I'm no longer even that active is because there's been so much stupid shit that I mostly don't even bother with unless it's downright stupid. People come in here and continue talking business and e-sports, and as long as they keep doing that, I see no reason to keep saying that those people are making retarded arguments to people who just want to see more BW. I've been around for pretty long (relatively speaking to the SC2 explosion), and I have never seen shit as dumb as this e-sports garbage. Also, what I'm saying isn't an implication, it's a fact. A lot of fangirls flocked around famous progamers because they're really fucking good looking. People just don't say it since it's a personal thing. I'm not going to go any further, but it's not like I'm speaking out and saying that people are downright ugly, and it's not like saying that every BW player is a statue carved by god. The fact of the matter is, a good reason why BW got so popular is because a lot of the really good players were good looking. There aren't a lot of people with the same attractiveness as a Bisu or Reach, or in SC2 I guess Nada/Boxer. There isn't anything antagonistic about it. It's just how it is. Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 22:58 fabiano wrote:
BW pros and fans are way more attractive than the average SC2 pro and fans though, just take a look at the BW events crowd filled with many korean beautiful girls and MLGs filled with a so many ugly white nerd guys :z
Of course there are exceptions for both sides, but in the average BW crowd and pros are better looking than SC2 crowd and pros.
And of course attractiveness is subjective and no one can really be objective about all of that, so all that I said can be refuted with ease.
But why are we discussing this subject at all? :| It was honestly a snide comment in passing. It's out of sarcasm and mild frustration, so I probably should apologize.
I thought it was because BW pros get paid more and there for get better facial cosmetic treatments. (If you recall Stork was REALLY UGLY back then)
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On April 14 2012 22:54 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 18:41 Ribbon wrote:
Bullshit. BW's problems are because Savior ruined the game's image, and the game was 100% dependent on that image because BW fans were too spoiled to pay for it, meaning sponsor money was the only money. The Korean SC2 scene doesn't matter, and the foreign BW scene has never been relevant. I find it incredibly annoying that you continue making pointed shots at BW fans who you assume are apparantly too "spoiled" to pay for watching. Many professional sports in korea depend on sponsorship and corporate backing. Thats just the way some things work there. American sports teams aren't sponsored by big companies - Korean teams are. There's a difference.
=D I mean they may not be DIRECTLY sponsored by big companies but you're foolish to think that they aren't connected by owners, stadiums, logos, commercials, give aways, etc.
On topic to all the BW people who can't seem to just ignore what the SC2 kids have been doing since day1 beta:
Look I feel for you BW brothers, I do. BW is dying, but not dead, and even if it does die you can keep it alive. You can organize your own tournaments, you can organize your own teams, if BW in korea dies, it dies, but don't be so bitter about it. Things come in and out of "style" all the time and there is nothing you can do about it. Im not saying "accept" or "play" sc2, but you can still live and breath BW through your own "amatuer" tournaments. You can still watch vods and you can keep those cherished memories. Sure things got really rocky after the savior incident, but there is no final nail yet. And if there is, how do you want to send BW off? Whinning like a little bitch or fighting like a man?
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Flash would still dominate every1 but I don't like mixing idea.
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@The Hardcore BW Fans: Why is the BW scene so opposed to paying money for BW material? Was there some previous league subscription / PPV tournament that left a really bad taste in everyones mouth that I missed?
On April 14 2012 23:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:
People come in here and continue talking business and e-sports, and as long as they keep doing that, I see no reason to keep saying that those people are making retarded arguments to people who just want to see more BW. I've been around for pretty long (relatively speaking to the SC2 explosion), and I have never seen shit as dumb as this e-sports garbage.
I just keep seeing stuff like this where the hardcore BW fans want nothing to do with the esports / business side of the game and I'm not understanding why the disdain for the economics of actually producing BW.
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On April 14 2012 23:54 TheButtonmen wrote:@The Hardcore BW Fans: Why is the BW scene so opposed to paying money for BW material? Was there some previous league subscription / PPV tournament that left a really bad taste in everyones mouth that I missed? Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 23:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:
People come in here and continue talking business and e-sports, and as long as they keep doing that, I see no reason to keep saying that those people are making retarded arguments to people who just want to see more BW. I've been around for pretty long (relatively speaking to the SC2 explosion), and I have never seen shit as dumb as this e-sports garbage. I just keep seeing stuff like this where the hardcore BW fans want nothing to do with the esports / business side of the game and I'm not understanding why the disdain for the economics of actually producing BW.
I think you're misreading what BW fans say when we bitch about people talking about "esports." Personally, i don't give a fuck about the esports industry, i just like BW. But you hear Sc2 fans talk about esports like there's some moral good gained from letting people play video games for a living. Moreover, with all the hate you hear toward LoL's success from Sc2 fans, i really find their claims to be working toward the good of all esports to ring a bit hollow.
"Esports" is a distraction. You don't hear people cheering "SPORTS" during a basketball game, why should it be any different if the game is played on a computer?
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On April 14 2012 23:54 TheButtonmen wrote:@The Hardcore BW Fans: Why is the BW scene so opposed to paying money for BW material? Was there some previous league subscription / PPV tournament that left a really bad taste in everyones mouth that I missed? Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 23:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:
People come in here and continue talking business and e-sports, and as long as they keep doing that, I see no reason to keep saying that those people are making retarded arguments to people who just want to see more BW. I've been around for pretty long (relatively speaking to the SC2 explosion), and I have never seen shit as dumb as this e-sports garbage. I just keep seeing stuff like this where the hardcore BW fans want nothing to do with the esports / business side of the game and I'm not understanding why the disdain for the economics of actually producing BW.
What.
I just don't care about e-sports because it's dumb. People come in here and just talk about "growing" shit, when all we care about is the game.
Nobody cared about e-sports years ago, because we were actually busy playing the fucking game.
Now it's all about "oh, well if SC2 expands here, then maybe both sides benefit, and e-sports grows". What the hell is that? Why should I be so caught up talking about expansion here, expansion there, especially when it's concerned with a game that I don't even remotely care about?
I understand that people are like "BUT IF E-SPORTS GROWS, THAT MIGHT MEAN MORE GAMES", but the fact is that people are just so caught up in all this business and economics bullshit that everyone just pulls dumb Economics 101 ideas out of their ass and distracts us from the actual game.
It's almost as if after the terror that was all the dumb economics threads in the general forum got shut down and raped by Caller, everyone just flocked to talking about the economics of e-sports.
It's just a dumb dialogue. Sports grow naturally over time due to interest, not because you shove it down people's throats. If SC2 is as good of a game as soooo many people think it is, then you don't need to be actively trying to nurture it. BW wasn't that way.
On April 15 2012 00:04 deafhobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 23:54 TheButtonmen wrote:@The Hardcore BW Fans: Why is the BW scene so opposed to paying money for BW material? Was there some previous league subscription / PPV tournament that left a really bad taste in everyones mouth that I missed? On April 14 2012 23:01 Zergneedsfood wrote:
People come in here and continue talking business and e-sports, and as long as they keep doing that, I see no reason to keep saying that those people are making retarded arguments to people who just want to see more BW. I've been around for pretty long (relatively speaking to the SC2 explosion), and I have never seen shit as dumb as this e-sports garbage. I just keep seeing stuff like this where the hardcore BW fans want nothing to do with the esports / business side of the game and I'm not understanding why the disdain for the economics of actually producing BW. I think you're misreading what BW fans say when we bitch about people talking about "esports." Personally, i don't give a fuck about the esports industry, i just like BW. But you hear Sc2 fans talk about esports like there's some moral good gained from letting people play video games for a living. Moreover, with all the hate you hear toward LoL's success from Sc2 fans, i really find their claims to be working toward the good of all esports to ring a bit hollow. "Esports" is a distraction. You don't hear people cheering "SPORTS" during a basketball game, why should it be any different if the game is played on a computer?
Holy shit you said everything I wanted to say in a civil way. Props broo
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Or maybe, you guys can stop coming in here saying "yay! SC2 expansion guys, what do you guys feel?" while we're watching our game get ripped to shreds?
Maybe you can stop using that "SC2 is growing" as if it's an actual argument that we should accept SC2 as a legitimate sport when we personally feel one game is clearly superior over the other.
That's the only argument I ever see from the SC2 kids coming in here and trampling on BW fans who are looking for any BW material. The fact that our material is getting curb stomped by SC2 should explain why we're bitter, but nope, SC2 kids are pretty narrow minded imo.
We might be elitist, but we often don't really comment a lot on new games in a negative light. After all, BW has been around for a million years. It's when SC2 people come in here and start spouting off nonsense while there is a visible impact on BW scene because of SC2. What is that fucking supposed to make us feel? Happy?
My thoughts exactly. SC2 is winning already, getting all the publicity, money, fame, media coverage, and all that because it's riding the name "Starcraft". Seriously if it was called "Space Wars" or some shit it wouldn't be this huge. Having such a large advantage because of US, and then parading in here and saying "oh but hey you guys should be more open minded" is really just gloating.
BW for me is hand made fresh pasta, old dusty leather boots now being threatened by machine pressed pasta and factory made canvas sneakers. No doubt the new products are good and popular, but I still like the old version. Call me old fashioned, stubborn, whatever but that's how it is for me and many others.
SC2 is good but it had the potential to be great. So much community feedback ignored by Blizzard. So I am going to ignore SC2. Is that difficult to understand?
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@Zergsfood: Except the context you normally see E-Sports invoked in involved the transfer of cold hard cash from the consumers to the players / leagues be in by purchasing merchandise (I can easily go buy jerseys, posters or hoodies for pretty much any SC2 team for instance but getting BW merchandise is much much harder), by purchasing subscriptions (GS(T)L, MLG, IPL and so forth all have subscriptions, why no BW league with them?), by organizing support for the companies who sponsor the events (through tools such as this which does have an actual effect.) or by direct donation drives for the players (see things like reddit paying for MKP's trip to MLG)
Like I don't understand how you can be so bitter about BW fade away while simultaneously hating on the idea of an esports industry. Like it seems a matter of put your money where your mouth is, BW fans seem pretty fanatical from reading the forums so I'm not getting where the disdain for paying cash to support the scene. Hence my question about there being previous attempts which really failed.
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Fanatical is the word man, I have been a fnatic fan from the beginning from my counter strike days  . Brings back my old memory with my team when we trolled the other team by tagging up fnatic nick names . R.I.P true e-sports game like Cs1.6 and Bw . Gone are the days when crowds of fans will just go to wcg qualifiers to just chill have fun over a game of bw and cs just to be there to enjoy the game .
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On April 15 2012 00:23 TheButtonmen wrote:@Zergsfood: Except the context you normally see E-Sports invoked in involved the transfer of cold hard cash from the consumers to the players / leagues be in by purchasing merchandise (I can easily go buy jerseys, posters or hoodies for pretty much any SC2 team for instance but getting BW merchandise is much much harder), by purchasing subscriptions (GS(T)L, MLG, IPL and so forth all have subscriptions, why no BW league with them?), by organizing support for the companies who sponsor the events (through tools such as this which does have an actual effect.) or by direct donation drives for the players (see things like reddit paying for MKP's trip to MLG) Like I don't understand how you can be so bitter about BW fade away while simultaneously hating on the idea of an esports industry. Like it seems a matter of put your money where your mouth is, BW fans seem pretty fanatical from reading the forums so I'm not getting where the disdain for paying cash to support the scene. Hence my question about there being previous attempts which really failed.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're just saying stuff off the top of your head without knowing what you're talking about. People do buy jerseys, posters, hoodies (that are discontinued now because teams have been disbanded by the way) and support in a variety of ways.
Don't generalize the BW fanbase as a group of people who take shit for granted. That's downright not true. If anything, BW players know how valuable each game of BW is because we have so little these days to begin with. People have been generous in starting random foreign tournaments, watching the Kespa stream, etc. etc. There are plenty of examples of BW players pitching in support, even if it's not necessarily monetary related.
Also, who the hell is ZergFood?
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On April 15 2012 00:39 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 00:23 TheButtonmen wrote:@Zergsfood: Except the context you normally see E-Sports invoked in involved the transfer of cold hard cash from the consumers to the players / leagues be in by purchasing merchandise (I can easily go buy jerseys, posters or hoodies for pretty much any SC2 team for instance but getting BW merchandise is much much harder), by purchasing subscriptions (GS(T)L, MLG, IPL and so forth all have subscriptions, why no BW league with them?), by organizing support for the companies who sponsor the events (through tools such as this which does have an actual effect.) or by direct donation drives for the players (see things like reddit paying for MKP's trip to MLG) Like I don't understand how you can be so bitter about BW fade away while simultaneously hating on the idea of an esports industry. Like it seems a matter of put your money where your mouth is, BW fans seem pretty fanatical from reading the forums so I'm not getting where the disdain for paying cash to support the scene. Hence my question about there being previous attempts which really failed. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're just saying stuff off the top of your head without knowing what you're talking about. People do buy jerseys, posters, hoodies (that are discontinued now because teams have been disbanded by the way) and support in a variety of ways. Don't generalize the BW fanbase as a group of people who take shit for granted. That's downright not true. If anything, BW players know how valuable each game of BW is because we have so little these days to begin with. People have been generous in starting random foreign tournaments, watching the Kespa stream, etc. etc. There are plenty of examples of BW players pitching in support, even if it's not necessarily monetary related. Also, who the hell is ZergFood?
Zergfood is probably refering to you man...He's saying you are Zergfood 
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On April 15 2012 00:43 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 00:39 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 15 2012 00:23 TheButtonmen wrote:@Zergsfood: Except the context you normally see E-Sports invoked in involved the transfer of cold hard cash from the consumers to the players / leagues be in by purchasing merchandise (I can easily go buy jerseys, posters or hoodies for pretty much any SC2 team for instance but getting BW merchandise is much much harder), by purchasing subscriptions (GS(T)L, MLG, IPL and so forth all have subscriptions, why no BW league with them?), by organizing support for the companies who sponsor the events (through tools such as this which does have an actual effect.) or by direct donation drives for the players (see things like reddit paying for MKP's trip to MLG) Like I don't understand how you can be so bitter about BW fade away while simultaneously hating on the idea of an esports industry. Like it seems a matter of put your money where your mouth is, BW fans seem pretty fanatical from reading the forums so I'm not getting where the disdain for paying cash to support the scene. Hence my question about there being previous attempts which really failed. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're just saying stuff off the top of your head without knowing what you're talking about. People do buy jerseys, posters, hoodies (that are discontinued now because teams have been disbanded by the way) and support in a variety of ways. Don't generalize the BW fanbase as a group of people who take shit for granted. That's downright not true. If anything, BW players know how valuable each game of BW is because we have so little these days to begin with. People have been generous in starting random foreign tournaments, watching the Kespa stream, etc. etc. There are plenty of examples of BW players pitching in support, even if it's not necessarily monetary related. Also, who the hell is ZergFood? Zergfood is probably refering to you man...
Dude I was being sarcastic bro.
Real suck Blasty.
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On April 15 2012 00:43 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 00:43 Blasterion wrote:On April 15 2012 00:39 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 15 2012 00:23 TheButtonmen wrote:@Zergsfood: Except the context you normally see E-Sports invoked in involved the transfer of cold hard cash from the consumers to the players / leagues be in by purchasing merchandise (I can easily go buy jerseys, posters or hoodies for pretty much any SC2 team for instance but getting BW merchandise is much much harder), by purchasing subscriptions (GS(T)L, MLG, IPL and so forth all have subscriptions, why no BW league with them?), by organizing support for the companies who sponsor the events (through tools such as this which does have an actual effect.) or by direct donation drives for the players (see things like reddit paying for MKP's trip to MLG) Like I don't understand how you can be so bitter about BW fade away while simultaneously hating on the idea of an esports industry. Like it seems a matter of put your money where your mouth is, BW fans seem pretty fanatical from reading the forums so I'm not getting where the disdain for paying cash to support the scene. Hence my question about there being previous attempts which really failed. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're just saying stuff off the top of your head without knowing what you're talking about. People do buy jerseys, posters, hoodies (that are discontinued now because teams have been disbanded by the way) and support in a variety of ways. Don't generalize the BW fanbase as a group of people who take shit for granted. That's downright not true. If anything, BW players know how valuable each game of BW is because we have so little these days to begin with. People have been generous in starting random foreign tournaments, watching the Kespa stream, etc. etc. There are plenty of examples of BW players pitching in support, even if it's not necessarily monetary related. Also, who the hell is ZergFood? Zergfood is probably refering to you man... Dude I was being sarcastic bro. Real suck Blasty.
No like he's saying you are Zergfood, like Food for zergs
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EPT
