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On April 09 2012 17:14 TheTrueNok wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 15:14 mustaju wrote:On April 09 2012 14:20 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 13:43 sToFu wrote:
Fuck I would rather see them even play LoL than SC2. T.T Says a lot about you. That he likes LoL? Or what does it say about him? Yeah indeed. If BW fans don't like SC2 because it doesn't take as much (or as you guys like to say it, any) skill, I'm amazed one can like LoL.
I dislike SC2 for a large number of reasons, but the main one is that it was an unnecessary game. There is nothing wrong with Brood War that SC2 fixed. In fact, there's nothing wrong with Brood War at all.
Then again, I couldn't tell LoL from a hole in the ground, so I can't say much about why people like it or not.
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Although Id hate to see it happen, SC2 will eventually take over BW because from a business stand point of view for OGN, the declining sponsorships and viewership for BW is not healthy business. Look at MBCgames and how they pulled the plug despite what others may say otherwise.
Sure SC2 has its flaws as a game, but it has become very successful globally (in terms of overwhelming sponsorship, viewer ship, tournaments, community etc) at a surprisingly high rate even without the help of an expansion (theres two). Its only a matter of time before OGN starts transitioning from BW to SC2 which i personally believe should have happened at the release of SC2.
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On April 09 2012 18:12 YyapSsap wrote:
Although Id hate to see it happen, SC2 will eventually take over BW because from a business stand point of view for OGN, the declining sponsorships and viewership for BW is not healthy business. Look at MBCgames and how they pulled the plug despite what others may say otherwise.
Sure SC2 has its flaws as a game, but it has become very successful globally (in terms of overwhelming sponsorship, viewer ship, tournaments, community etc) at a surprisingly high rate even without the help of an expansion (theres two). Its only a matter of time before OGN starts transitioning from BW to SC2 which i personally believe should have happened at the release of SC2.
There's no reason why Brood War's viewership in Korea would become SC2's viewership - it's not that popular there. And if OGN were to give up BW, there's no reason why they should do it in favor of SC2. There are other games they can choose from.
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Would somebody please stop anybody but the OP from posting in this thread? I want to get updates on the situation, but all I read is useless arguments about BW vs SC2.
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On April 09 2012 17:54 GeLaar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 17:14 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 15:14 mustaju wrote:On April 09 2012 14:20 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 13:43 sToFu wrote:
Fuck I would rather see them even play LoL than SC2. T.T Says a lot about you. That he likes LoL? Or what does it say about him? Yeah indeed. If BW fans don't like SC2 because it doesn't take as much (or as you guys like to say it, any) skill, I'm amazed one can like LoL. I dislike SC2 for a large number of reasons, but the main one is that it was an unnecessary game. There is nothing wrong with Brood War that SC2 fixed. In fact, there's nothing wrong with Brood War at all.
Besides having to install regedits and disable windows explorer to keep it from becoming Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamling on modern OSes
And having to have admin access to your router to host games (I'd play 10x as much BW if I could ever actually play it)
And having to use third-party antihack programs to ensure a game that's fair
And having no auto-matchmaking like SC2 has, which is just a flat upgrade over C+ players making "D- only" games on ICCUP (hate those people)
And having a community experience that involves the default channel being a cesspool and having to find the worthwhile channels (everyone who complains that SC2's bnet is "empty" should spent 15 minutes in channel D on ICCUP).
And the /clearstats command, with which high-level players can smack around helpless D-s just to troll them.
It's also kind of crashy on modern OSes (which raises an interesting question of how a mixed SC2/BW proleague would work, logistically, though I guess KeSPA's worked that one out long ago).
I guess it'd be neat if Valkyrie's could shoot late game without running afoul of the sprite limit.
Would it be nitpicky to mention that buildings aren't the same shape/size as their sprites, making walling a really mysterious and arbitrary process to noobs? I guess you get it over time, but it always bugged me.
It certainly would be nitpicky to mention that the sprite limit meant I couldn't make a "this fortress is defended by 50,000 spidermines and turrets!" custom, which was the biggest flaw in the game for me when I was twelve ;_;
BW is like the American Health Care system. It's the absolute best in the world, if you're in the elite minority that can actually take advantage of it.
Which isn't to make any kind of comparitive statement, of course. I have a laundry list of complaints about SC2 if you want to hear them. But BW's biggest problem is the myriad of issues that make it incredibly hard to get started.
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On April 09 2012 18:17 GeLaar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 18:12 YyapSsap wrote:
Although Id hate to see it happen, SC2 will eventually take over BW because from a business stand point of view for OGN, the declining sponsorships and viewership for BW is not healthy business. Look at MBCgames and how they pulled the plug despite what others may say otherwise.
Sure SC2 has its flaws as a game, but it has become very successful globally (in terms of overwhelming sponsorship, viewer ship, tournaments, community etc) at a surprisingly high rate even without the help of an expansion (theres two). Its only a matter of time before OGN starts transitioning from BW to SC2 which i personally believe should have happened at the release of SC2.
There's no reason why Brood War's viewership in Korea would become SC2's viewership - it's not that popular there. And if OGN were to give up BW, there's no reason why they should do it in favor of SC2. There are other games they can choose from.
The only reason it's not popular in Korea atm is because of the lack of media "push" it got from the main broadcasting channels namely OGN and MBCgames at the time along with how negatively the Blizzard/Kespa incident affected the whole thing. If they had the green light from blizz, it would have trended big time.
There is so much marketing/sponsoring opportunities with SC2 that no sane company will stick with the declining BW. I mean lets say the pros from BW makes the transition. That would shake the entire scene and I cant begin to imagine how big it will be. Although GOM played a role, I still think the majority of Korea (ala BW players/teams/sponsors etc) has yet to contribute to the growing of SC2 which is the final piece of the puzzle. I hope the transition does take place, the system ready to go/refined for HOTS.
And with regards to the last bit, they already have done that and its called LoL. Im just afraid that it might bury starcraft all together at the rate its increasing in.
Note that Im talking all from a business perspective. The game has two more expansions to improve upon its flaws but even then with players like MKP showing the next level, I still have high hopes for SC2 one day surpassing BW in terms of game content.
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On April 09 2012 18:30 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 17:54 GeLaar wrote:On April 09 2012 17:14 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 15:14 mustaju wrote:On April 09 2012 14:20 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 13:43 sToFu wrote:
Fuck I would rather see them even play LoL than SC2. T.T Says a lot about you. That he likes LoL? Or what does it say about him? Yeah indeed. If BW fans don't like SC2 because it doesn't take as much (or as you guys like to say it, any) skill, I'm amazed one can like LoL. I dislike SC2 for a large number of reasons, but the main one is that it was an unnecessary game. There is nothing wrong with Brood War that SC2 fixed. In fact, there's nothing wrong with Brood War at all. Besides having to install regedits and disable windows explorer to keep it from becoming Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamling on modern OSes And having to have admin access to your router to host games (I'd play 10x as much BW if I could ever actually play it) And having to use third-party antihack programs to ensure a game that's fair And having no auto-matchmaking like SC2 has, which is just a flat upgrade over C+ players making "D- only" games on ICCUP (hate those people) And having a community experience that involves the default channel being a cesspool and having to find the worthwhile channels (everyone who complains that SC2's bnet is "empty" should spent 15 minutes in channel D on ICCUP). And the /clearstats command, with which high-level players can smack around helpless D-s just to troll them. It's also kind of crashy on modern OSes (which raises an interesting question of how a mixed SC2/BW proleague would work, logistically, though I guess KeSPA's worked that one out long ago). I guess it'd be neat if Valkyrie's could shoot late game without running afoul of the sprite limit. Would it be nitpicky to mention that buildings aren't the same shape/size as their sprites, making walling a really mysterious and arbitrary process to noobs? I guess you get it over time, but it always bugged me. It certainly would be nitpicky to mention that the sprite limit meant I couldn't make a "this fortress is defended by 50,000 spidermines and turrets!" custom, which was the biggest flaw in the game for me when I was twelve ;_; BW is like the American Health Care system. It's the absolute best in the world, if you're in the elite minority that can actually take advantage of it. Which isn't to make any kind of comparitive statement, of course. I have a laundry list of complaints about SC2 if you want to hear them. But BW's biggest problem is the myriad of issues that make it incredibly hard to get started.
most of these are not problems with the game itself, but a failure of blizzard to provide an updated interface after release, especially since its popularity really took off.
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On April 09 2012 18:36 YyapSsap wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 18:17 GeLaar wrote:On April 09 2012 18:12 YyapSsap wrote:
Although Id hate to see it happen, SC2 will eventually take over BW because from a business stand point of view for OGN, the declining sponsorships and viewership for BW is not healthy business. Look at MBCgames and how they pulled the plug despite what others may say otherwise.
Sure SC2 has its flaws as a game, but it has become very successful globally (in terms of overwhelming sponsorship, viewer ship, tournaments, community etc) at a surprisingly high rate even without the help of an expansion (theres two). Its only a matter of time before OGN starts transitioning from BW to SC2 which i personally believe should have happened at the release of SC2.
There's no reason why Brood War's viewership in Korea would become SC2's viewership - it's not that popular there. And if OGN were to give up BW, there's no reason why they should do it in favor of SC2. There are other games they can choose from. The only reason it's not popular in Korea atm is because of the lack of media "push" it got from the main broadcasting channels namely OGN and MBCgames at the time along with how negatively the Blizzard/Kespa incident affected the whole thing. If they had the green light from blizz, it would have trended big time. There is so much marketing/sponsoring opportunities with SC2 that no sane company will stick with the declining BW. I mean lets say the pros from BW makes the transition. That would shake the entire scene and I cant begin to imagine how big it will be. Although GOM played a role, I still think the majority of Korea (ala BW players/teams/sponsors etc) has yet to contribute to the growing of SC2 which is the final piece of the puzzle. I hope the transition does take place, the system ready to go/refined for HOTS. And with regards to the last bit, they already have done that and its called LoL. Im just afraid that it might bury starcraft all together at the rate its increasing in. Note that Im talking all from a business perspective. The game has two more expansions to improve upon its flaws but even then with players like MKP showing the next level, I still have high hopes for SC2 one day surpassing BW in terms of game content.
Oh really, that's the sole and only reason ? :-)
And you're very right with your last sentence, hope is good, hope is life.
Personally, I'd be very happy you hope 5 more years by your side, without having to watch an inferior game included in a BW set.
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On April 09 2012 12:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
GSTL was NOT epic, hell no, but that has little to do with SC2 itself, it was the misfortune of the disconnect that ruined a lot of it. In the same breath, NATE MSL finals were ruined, even though game 3 was probably one the best ZvTs I've ever seen. Sometimes you just real, real unlucky.
Well, those PL finals were so incredible I almost feel at peace about a lot of these coming problems, except for my earlier-stated concerns about the upcoming OSL fairness.
Now we sit and wait.
I agree, the difference between the the GSTL finals and the Proleague finals was like literal night and day. The GSTL left me with nothing but a bad taste in my mouth, where as the PL final was awe stunning (and I'm saying that as a KT fan).
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Trust me, the game would've been big in Korea. The attitude Blizzard had at first was probably the single biggest factor that killed all the hype or momentum. I mean they were trying to shut down the decade long history of BW and its community in favor of their new product.
So its quite ironic how Michael Morhaime is trying to undo the damage because LoL is taking over..
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On April 09 2012 18:30 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 17:54 GeLaar wrote:On April 09 2012 17:14 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 15:14 mustaju wrote:On April 09 2012 14:20 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 13:43 sToFu wrote:
Fuck I would rather see them even play LoL than SC2. T.T Says a lot about you. That he likes LoL? Or what does it say about him? Yeah indeed. If BW fans don't like SC2 because it doesn't take as much (or as you guys like to say it, any) skill, I'm amazed one can like LoL. I dislike SC2 for a large number of reasons, but the main one is that it was an unnecessary game. There is nothing wrong with Brood War that SC2 fixed. In fact, there's nothing wrong with Brood War at all. Besides having to install regedits and disable windows explorer to keep it from becoming Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamling on modern OSes And having to have admin access to your router to host games (I'd play 10x as much BW if I could ever actually play it) And having to use third-party antihack programs to ensure a game that's fair And having no auto-matchmaking like SC2 has, which is just a flat upgrade over C+ players making "D- only" games on ICCUP (hate those people) And having a community experience that involves the default channel being a cesspool and having to find the worthwhile channels (everyone who complains that SC2's bnet is "empty" should spent 15 minutes in channel D on ICCUP). And the /clearstats command, with which high-level players can smack around helpless D-s just to troll them. It's also kind of crashy on modern OSes (which raises an interesting question of how a mixed SC2/BW proleague would work, logistically, though I guess KeSPA's worked that one out long ago). I guess it'd be neat if Valkyrie's could shoot late game without running afoul of the sprite limit. Would it be nitpicky to mention that buildings aren't the same shape/size as their sprites, making walling a really mysterious and arbitrary process to noobs? I guess you get it over time, but it always bugged me. It certainly would be nitpicky to mention that the sprite limit meant I couldn't make a "this fortress is defended by 50,000 spidermines and turrets!" custom, which was the biggest flaw in the game for me when I was twelve ;_; BW is like the American Health Care system. It's the absolute best in the world, if you're in the elite minority that can actually take advantage of it. Which isn't to make any kind of comparitive statement, of course. I have a laundry list of complaints about SC2 if you want to hear them. But BW's biggest problem is the myriad of issues that make it incredibly hard to get started.
If you want to use the america example -
USA had free market CHEAP and HIGHEST quality healthcare in the world in the 50ies. Ever since then theyve been piling on more and more regulations so costs have staggered up, to the point that even crappy socialised healthcare of Europe costs less. In a sense, BW has had the same - the computer changes are like regulations that make what was originally excellent, into a somewhat troublesome experience
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I neeeeed another BW-proleague season because I'm going to Korea next spring to study :'( Want to watch an epic final live
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On April 09 2012 20:28 YyapSsap wrote:
Trust me, the game would've been big in Korea. The attitude Blizzard had at first was probably the single biggest factor that killed all the hype or momentum. I mean they were trying to shut down the decade long history of BW and its community in favor of their new product.
So its quite ironic how Michael Morhaime is trying to undo the damage because LoL is taking over..
I dont think so.. games dont become popular due to pro scene. Pro scenes exist because games become popular! SC2 simply hasnt offered the RTS experience that koreans want, and has failed in its own regard, not because of blizzard publicity or pro scene management. And LoL exploded in korea despite not having any of that, not stars or perks to look up to
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On April 09 2012 18:47 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 18:30 Ribbon wrote:On April 09 2012 17:54 GeLaar wrote:On April 09 2012 17:14 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 15:14 mustaju wrote:On April 09 2012 14:20 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 13:43 sToFu wrote:
Fuck I would rather see them even play LoL than SC2. T.T Says a lot about you. That he likes LoL? Or what does it say about him? Yeah indeed. If BW fans don't like SC2 because it doesn't take as much (or as you guys like to say it, any) skill, I'm amazed one can like LoL. I dislike SC2 for a large number of reasons, but the main one is that it was an unnecessary game. There is nothing wrong with Brood War that SC2 fixed. In fact, there's nothing wrong with Brood War at all. Besides having to install regedits and disable windows explorer to keep it from becoming Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamling on modern OSes And having to have admin access to your router to host games (I'd play 10x as much BW if I could ever actually play it) And having to use third-party antihack programs to ensure a game that's fair And having no auto-matchmaking like SC2 has, which is just a flat upgrade over C+ players making "D- only" games on ICCUP (hate those people) And having a community experience that involves the default channel being a cesspool and having to find the worthwhile channels (everyone who complains that SC2's bnet is "empty" should spent 15 minutes in channel D on ICCUP). And the /clearstats command, with which high-level players can smack around helpless D-s just to troll them. It's also kind of crashy on modern OSes (which raises an interesting question of how a mixed SC2/BW proleague would work, logistically, though I guess KeSPA's worked that one out long ago). I guess it'd be neat if Valkyrie's could shoot late game without running afoul of the sprite limit. Would it be nitpicky to mention that buildings aren't the same shape/size as their sprites, making walling a really mysterious and arbitrary process to noobs? I guess you get it over time, but it always bugged me. It certainly would be nitpicky to mention that the sprite limit meant I couldn't make a "this fortress is defended by 50,000 spidermines and turrets!" custom, which was the biggest flaw in the game for me when I was twelve ;_; BW is like the American Health Care system. It's the absolute best in the world, if you're in the elite minority that can actually take advantage of it. Which isn't to make any kind of comparitive statement, of course. I have a laundry list of complaints about SC2 if you want to hear them. But BW's biggest problem is the myriad of issues that make it incredibly hard to get started. most of these are not problems with the game itself, but a failure of blizzard to provide an updated interface after release, especially since its popularity really took off.
You can hardly blame Blizzard for that, though.
Brood War (the expansion) came out in 1998-12-17. On 1999-09-30, they released an interface upgrade. They added support for Korean tournaments (on bnet, not like the pro scene) on November 1999. In 2001, they released another minor interface upgrade and enough balance changes to constiture a retooling of the game, making the BW scene we have today possible. They also added "Top vs Bottom", and the ability to save replays (which took another year to really get right)
They fixed a bunch of replay issues in February, 2002. In 2003, they released a fix to an issue that allowed you to turn off lurkers by shooting them with an air unit. In 2005, the ability to see a preview of the map in the pre-game lobby was added, the ability to have friends was added, and the game remembered the map you made last time when making a new game. They also added the shift-tab command, which made the minimap readable even if you and your opponent spawned nearly identical colors. They also made the game easier, letting you set rally points with a right-click and shift-click new units into a control group. Later in 2005, they made it so you could see your units on the minimap even with enemy units over them.
In 2006 they made the default chat mode in Top vs Bottom "ally", and I don't know if you remember how annoying team games where before that because there'd always be some idiot going "I'll maek DTs!" in all chat by accident. They also made it so people's name in the in-game chat matched their team color, which was also a much bigger deal than it sounds, because "[Skull]XXDeath96XX: Help!" is not useful by itself. (Also, screen names were stupid in the early aughts)
In 2008, a full ten years after the game came out, they made it not need a CD anymore, which is so nice for us non-pirates, while adding replay auto-save, while adding league support, which I don't think anyone cared about by then, but there you go.
It's not like the game was abandoned at launch. If it wasn't for patch 1.08, nearly three years after release, no one would care about BW today. It is what it is now, for better or worse.
On April 09 2012 20:39 storkfan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 18:30 Ribbon wrote:On April 09 2012 17:54 GeLaar wrote:On April 09 2012 17:14 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 15:14 mustaju wrote:On April 09 2012 14:20 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 13:43 sToFu wrote:
Fuck I would rather see them even play LoL than SC2. T.T Says a lot about you. That he likes LoL? Or what does it say about him? Yeah indeed. If BW fans don't like SC2 because it doesn't take as much (or as you guys like to say it, any) skill, I'm amazed one can like LoL. I dislike SC2 for a large number of reasons, but the main one is that it was an unnecessary game. There is nothing wrong with Brood War that SC2 fixed. In fact, there's nothing wrong with Brood War at all. Besides having to install regedits and disable windows explorer to keep it from becoming Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamling on modern OSes And having to have admin access to your router to host games (I'd play 10x as much BW if I could ever actually play it) And having to use third-party antihack programs to ensure a game that's fair And having no auto-matchmaking like SC2 has, which is just a flat upgrade over C+ players making "D- only" games on ICCUP (hate those people) And having a community experience that involves the default channel being a cesspool and having to find the worthwhile channels (everyone who complains that SC2's bnet is "empty" should spent 15 minutes in channel D on ICCUP). And the /clearstats command, with which high-level players can smack around helpless D-s just to troll them. It's also kind of crashy on modern OSes (which raises an interesting question of how a mixed SC2/BW proleague would work, logistically, though I guess KeSPA's worked that one out long ago). I guess it'd be neat if Valkyrie's could shoot late game without running afoul of the sprite limit. Would it be nitpicky to mention that buildings aren't the same shape/size as their sprites, making walling a really mysterious and arbitrary process to noobs? I guess you get it over time, but it always bugged me. It certainly would be nitpicky to mention that the sprite limit meant I couldn't make a "this fortress is defended by 50,000 spidermines and turrets!" custom, which was the biggest flaw in the game for me when I was twelve ;_; BW is like the American Health Care system. It's the absolute best in the world, if you're in the elite minority that can actually take advantage of it. Which isn't to make any kind of comparitive statement, of course. I have a laundry list of complaints about SC2 if you want to hear them. But BW's biggest problem is the myriad of issues that make it incredibly hard to get started. If you want to use the america example - USA had free market CHEAP and HIGHEST quality healthcare in the world in the 50ies. Ever since then theyve been piling on more and more regulations so costs have staggered up, to the point that even crappy socialised healthcare of Europe costs less. In a sense, BW has had the same - the computer changes are like regulations that make what was originally excellent, into a somewhat troublesome experience
Right. I wasn't trying to imply otherwise.
On April 09 2012 19:31 Fuu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 18:36 YyapSsap wrote:On April 09 2012 18:17 GeLaar wrote:On April 09 2012 18:12 YyapSsap wrote:
Although Id hate to see it happen, SC2 will eventually take over BW because from a business stand point of view for OGN, the declining sponsorships and viewership for BW is not healthy business. Look at MBCgames and how they pulled the plug despite what others may say otherwise.
Sure SC2 has its flaws as a game, but it has become very successful globally (in terms of overwhelming sponsorship, viewer ship, tournaments, community etc) at a surprisingly high rate even without the help of an expansion (theres two). Its only a matter of time before OGN starts transitioning from BW to SC2 which i personally believe should have happened at the release of SC2.
There's no reason why Brood War's viewership in Korea would become SC2's viewership - it's not that popular there. And if OGN were to give up BW, there's no reason why they should do it in favor of SC2. There are other games they can choose from. The only reason it's not popular in Korea atm is because of the lack of media "push" it got from the main broadcasting channels namely OGN and MBCgames at the time along with how negatively the Blizzard/Kespa incident affected the whole thing. If they had the green light from blizz, it would have trended big time. There is so much marketing/sponsoring opportunities with SC2 that no sane company will stick with the declining BW. I mean lets say the pros from BW makes the transition. That would shake the entire scene and I cant begin to imagine how big it will be. Although GOM played a role, I still think the majority of Korea (ala BW players/teams/sponsors etc) has yet to contribute to the growing of SC2 which is the final piece of the puzzle. I hope the transition does take place, the system ready to go/refined for HOTS. And with regards to the last bit, they already have done that and its called LoL. Im just afraid that it might bury starcraft all together at the rate its increasing in. Note that Im talking all from a business perspective. The game has two more expansions to improve upon its flaws but even then with players like MKP showing the next level, I still have high hopes for SC2 one day surpassing BW in terms of game content. Oh really, that's the sole and only reason ? :-) And you're very right with your last sentence, hope is good, hope is life. Personally, I'd be very happy you hope 5 more years by your side, without having to watch an inferior game included in a BW set.
Can't you just, like, skip every other VOD? Its going to be a BW team and a SC2 team anyway, their fates will just be linked in a really weird way (The first time KT wins all the BW games and loses due to SC2 will make a hilarious thread). The only reason people are bi-curious now is because the teams are trying to figure out who'll switch and who'll stay in BW.
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On April 09 2012 13:28 GeLaar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 07:33 Zergneedsfood wrote:On April 08 2012 13:06 Lawliet wrote:
There is a international scene for SC2 and none for BW. It's really as simple as that.
Globalization is the future. BW has stagnated and the fanbase/money is drying out.
Don't get me wrong. BW is my first love and she will never be forgotten. But it's time to move on guys. SC2 might seem like feeble substitute but in good time balance will come. There's still two expansions and a buttload of patches in the works.
Honestly. Wouldn't you rather see the Jaedong, Bish or Flash slaying nerds all over the world with personal sponsorship or spearheading their own teams in SC2 rather than have them retire and go do their military service? What the fuck? No. Watching them play SC2 would break my heart. Also, people need to stop using the phrase "support e-sports and expand SC2" as if it's an argument. Fuck e-sports. We want to watch people play games, and by games, I mean good games that we've loved for a decade. People have different opinions, and I'm all fine with people saying that they can enjoy SC2. But seriously, stop coming in here and saying "but if they switch, SC2 will grow." That's inciting dumb flamebait, you know it, and a lot of people here don't even bother with SC2. I like you.
I like him too, ZNF real moe
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I started out as an sc2 fan a year ago, and the more I got into it I got interested in bw. I Started playing a month ago and heck, it's a lot of fun. It feels like a completely different game, and I still think a lot of the skill comes purely from its inconveniences (the 12 unit control group was a shock at first, moving units was a pain for me), but nonetheless both games require more skill than lol (which I enjoy playing, but not nearly as epically as sc). I was stuck playing bw all day yesterday trying out different things, and as old as it is, it's still quite fun even for someone who was a toddler when it first came out.
Like bw, it'll take some time for sc2 to become a great game. That is if we, or at least blizzard, allow it to.
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On April 09 2012 18:30 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 17:54 GeLaar wrote:On April 09 2012 17:14 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 15:14 mustaju wrote:On April 09 2012 14:20 TheTrueNok wrote:On April 09 2012 13:43 sToFu wrote:
Fuck I would rather see them even play LoL than SC2. T.T Says a lot about you. That he likes LoL? Or what does it say about him? Yeah indeed. If BW fans don't like SC2 because it doesn't take as much (or as you guys like to say it, any) skill, I'm amazed one can like LoL. I dislike SC2 for a large number of reasons, but the main one is that it was an unnecessary game. There is nothing wrong with Brood War that SC2 fixed. In fact, there's nothing wrong with Brood War at all. Besides having to install regedits and disable windows explorer to keep it from becoming Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamling on modern OSes And having to have admin access to your router to host games (I'd play 10x as much BW if I could ever actually play it) And having to use third-party antihack programs to ensure a game that's fair And having no auto-matchmaking like SC2 has, which is just a flat upgrade over C+ players making "D- only" games on ICCUP (hate those people) And having a community experience that involves the default channel being a cesspool and having to find the worthwhile channels (everyone who complains that SC2's bnet is "empty" should spent 15 minutes in channel D on ICCUP). And the /clearstats command, with which high-level players can smack around helpless D-s just to troll them. It's also kind of crashy on modern OSes (which raises an interesting question of how a mixed SC2/BW proleague would work, logistically, though I guess KeSPA's worked that one out long ago). I guess it'd be neat if Valkyrie's could shoot late game without running afoul of the sprite limit. Would it be nitpicky to mention that buildings aren't the same shape/size as their sprites, making walling a really mysterious and arbitrary process to noobs? I guess you get it over time, but it always bugged me. It certainly would be nitpicky to mention that the sprite limit meant I couldn't make a "this fortress is defended by 50,000 spidermines and turrets!" custom, which was the biggest flaw in the game for me when I was twelve ;_; BW is like the American Health Care system. It's the absolute best in the world, if you're in the elite minority that can actually take advantage of it.
Which isn't to make any kind of comparitive statement, of course. I have a laundry list of complaints about SC2 if you want to hear them. But BW's biggest problem is the myriad of issues that make it incredibly hard to get started.
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What the hell? This is such a blatant falsehood. Where did you ever get this analogy? O_o I think this is a pretty big exaggeration.
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On April 09 2012 20:42 storkfan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 20:28 YyapSsap wrote:
Trust me, the game would've been big in Korea. The attitude Blizzard had at first was probably the single biggest factor that killed all the hype or momentum. I mean they were trying to shut down the decade long history of BW and its community in favor of their new product.
So its quite ironic how Michael Morhaime is trying to undo the damage because LoL is taking over.. I dont think so.. games dont become popular due to pro scene. Pro scenes exist because games become popular! SC2 simply hasnt offered the RTS experience that koreans want, and has failed in its own regard, not because of blizzard publicity or pro scene management. And LoL exploded in korea despite not having any of that, not stars or perks to look up to
very well said, man.
yea, bw started its pro scene because it grew big.
but now it seems some people want to make sc2 become big by forcibly putting it into pro scene.
that's not correct.
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On April 09 2012 18:17 GeLaar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 18:12 YyapSsap wrote:
Although Id hate to see it happen, SC2 will eventually take over BW because from a business stand point of view for OGN, the declining sponsorships and viewership for BW is not healthy business. Look at MBCgames and how they pulled the plug despite what others may say otherwise.
Sure SC2 has its flaws as a game, but it has become very successful globally (in terms of overwhelming sponsorship, viewer ship, tournaments, community etc) at a surprisingly high rate even without the help of an expansion (theres two). Its only a matter of time before OGN starts transitioning from BW to SC2 which i personally believe should have happened at the release of SC2.
There's no reason why Brood War's viewership in Korea would become SC2's viewership - it's not that popular there. And if OGN were to give up BW, there's no reason why they should do it in favor of SC2. There are other games they can choose from.
players are certainly a reason...
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On April 10 2012 00:47 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 18:17 GeLaar wrote:On April 09 2012 18:12 YyapSsap wrote:
Although Id hate to see it happen, SC2 will eventually take over BW because from a business stand point of view for OGN, the declining sponsorships and viewership for BW is not healthy business. Look at MBCgames and how they pulled the plug despite what others may say otherwise.
Sure SC2 has its flaws as a game, but it has become very successful globally (in terms of overwhelming sponsorship, viewer ship, tournaments, community etc) at a surprisingly high rate even without the help of an expansion (theres two). Its only a matter of time before OGN starts transitioning from BW to SC2 which i personally believe should have happened at the release of SC2.
There's no reason why Brood War's viewership in Korea would become SC2's viewership - it's not that popular there. And if OGN were to give up BW, there's no reason why they should do it in favor of SC2. There are other games they can choose from. players are certainly a reason...
Let me tell you something. The most influencial player in SK are NOT the TBLS but they are BoxeR and NaDa. When those two switched game to SC2, by your logic, one must expect a massive shift in fanbase. However that is not at all what happened. People still continued on watching BW and didn't even pay attention to SC2 even though they got the bigger names. Koreans don't just follow a professional scene because of the frontal image but they truly understand and care for love of the game. So if TBLS switch, there won't be as large of impact.
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EPT
