|
So, Jaedong confirmed by T8 captain to be switching to SC2?
That's....ugh.
That doesn't even make strategic sense. You have 6 players good at BW and 3 who are less good. If you think there's going to be a switch, have the B-team switch, since you're starting from scratch anyway. Most of the other BW teams are allegedly just going to poach SC2 players off the SC2 teams. Even if they don't, they're going to have a full time SC2 division and a full time BW division. Even Jaedong, if he half-and-halfs it, is going to get smashed by people like Soulkey in BW and...I dunno, Maru, in SC2. It's silly.
I guess if we're looking for good news, Coach Ju technically works for KeSPA, and he's publically against ending BW, so maybe this weird half-and-half isn't a transition to anything, but just kind of the new status quo? BW is going to live on in this weird-ass state? Or maybe I'm right, and they're trying to sell BW to SC2 fans instead of the other way around, so that it can eventually return to it's own league all by itself supported by a foreign fanbase.
On April 06 2012 06:04 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 05:35 eviltomahawk wrote:On April 06 2012 05:22 danl9rm wrote:
I don't know what to say except WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Thanks rotin!
edit: Jaedong first SC2 BONJWA please. No. Flash first SC2 bonjwa, as foretold by the elder scrolls. Really interesting interview. The elephant is certainly going to make its presence known in the near future. However, I really am worried about weaker, smaller teams like Team 8 or Ace when the switch to SC2/BW comes. They already struggled as is in the pure BW Proleague, and I'm afraid that they will be even weaker in a hybrid format where the rest of the teams can afford to have many more B-teamers and practice partners to help in their transition. Perhaps the reason Ace pulled out of OSL to practice Proleague was to help their SC2 transition... And interesting to hear that a lot of high-masters on KR server are BW progamers. Makes me wonder whenever I'm watching a pro Korean stream if their opponent is secretly Flash or Jaedong in disguise. Certainly an interesting thought. And I'm surprised to hear the coach speak rather positively, but cautiously, of SC2. There are certainly very interesting times ahead. I would assume that those smaller teams will start a cooperation with existing SC2 teams to fill the holes in their lineup. I would even go so far to say that most BW teams will initially team up with current SC2 teams to benefit from the experience of existing SC2 pros and offering the raw talent of BW pros for practice in return. oGs-TL-KT incoming :p
The SC2 teams and KeSPA seem not to get along. The SC2 teams even formed a club to protect them from KeSPA
On April 06 2012 07:33 Atoissen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 06:54 maybenexttime wrote:
So Blizzard achieved their goal and effectively killed BW. Now that their eyes are on SC2, they'll milk it as much as possible and extort more money from tournament organizers, then they'll let the game rot. Disgusting. Dude, its not really Blizzard's fault... Its us, the people watching, sponsing etc.
I blame Savior, for obvious reasons, and Flash, for being too damn good for too long, which isn't good for a scene.
On April 06 2012 07:34 ellirc wrote:
Wooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwww! :O
I never followed BW(wish I did) so this is extremely exciting!!!!!!
There's an OSL going on RIGHT NOW, dude.
On April 06 2012 07:30 nojitosunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 07:17 masterbreti wrote:
The end of foreigners playing in Korean league, and the end of Koreans playing in foreign leagues is coming, and fast. Its happening. We all know Kespa will put an end to Korean-foreign teamups and will put an end to it all.
Makes me sad I only have a limited time left in Korea before Kespa bans me from one of their leagues. Sucks T_T If the LoL scene in Korea is any indication, OGN/Kespa will definitely be focused on expanding eSports past Korea. I can't seem them "excluding" foreign gamers from participating.
The SC2 teams disagree.
|
On April 06 2012 09:21 Ribbon wrote:So, Jaedong confirmed by T8 captain to be switching to SC2? That's....ugh. That doesn't even make strategic sense. You have 6 players good at BW and 3 who are less good. If you think there's going to be a switch, have the B-team switch, since you're starting from scratch anyway. Most of the other BW teams are allegedly just going to poach SC2 players off the SC2 teams. Even if they don't, they're going to have a full time SC2 division and a full time BW division. Even Jaedong, if he half-and-halfs it, is going to get smashed by people like Soulkey in BW and...I dunno, Maru, in SC2. It's silly. I guess if we're looking for good news, Coach Ju technically works for KeSPA, and he's publically against ending BW, so maybe this weird half-and-half isn't a transition to anything, but just kind of the new status quo? BW is going to live on in this weird-ass state? Or maybe I'm right, and they're trying to sell BW to SC2 fans instead of the other way around, so that it can eventually return to it's own league all by itself supported by a foreign fanbase. Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 06:04 Morfildur wrote:On April 06 2012 05:35 eviltomahawk wrote:On April 06 2012 05:22 danl9rm wrote:
I don't know what to say except WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Thanks rotin!
edit: Jaedong first SC2 BONJWA please. No. Flash first SC2 bonjwa, as foretold by the elder scrolls. Really interesting interview. The elephant is certainly going to make its presence known in the near future. However, I really am worried about weaker, smaller teams like Team 8 or Ace when the switch to SC2/BW comes. They already struggled as is in the pure BW Proleague, and I'm afraid that they will be even weaker in a hybrid format where the rest of the teams can afford to have many more B-teamers and practice partners to help in their transition. Perhaps the reason Ace pulled out of OSL to practice Proleague was to help their SC2 transition... And interesting to hear that a lot of high-masters on KR server are BW progamers. Makes me wonder whenever I'm watching a pro Korean stream if their opponent is secretly Flash or Jaedong in disguise. Certainly an interesting thought. And I'm surprised to hear the coach speak rather positively, but cautiously, of SC2. There are certainly very interesting times ahead. I would assume that those smaller teams will start a cooperation with existing SC2 teams to fill the holes in their lineup. I would even go so far to say that most BW teams will initially team up with current SC2 teams to benefit from the experience of existing SC2 pros and offering the raw talent of BW pros for practice in return. oGs-TL-KT incoming :p The SC2 teams and KeSPA seem not to get along. The SC2 teams even formed a club to protect them from KeSPA
I'll take a bite at this though.
It seems like they mentioned that they're going to have a joint league between two games (which I'm still uncomfortable with), yet they never specified HOW it's going to work out. Like I said in the past, you will never know if the players will be forced to play both games or be placed in a game where they're more comfortable in.
And speaking realistically, I'm pretty sure some BW players wanted to switch yet they haven't done so because of the Korean SC2 "Team" Houses in Korea. Their facility, sponsorship, and salary is almost nothing compared to what current BW players have.
|
I don't think many people know that Kespa has actively prevented foreigners from seeing pro bw players beyond kespa organized leagues. Going far enough to banning players who played sc2 on the big stage who were still kespa players (NaDa anyone?) Kespa wants a iron grip on esports in Korea, thats why they do progamer licenses and such. If you don't get a license you don't play, simple as that.
Which means if they do something similar to courage, it'll be tougher than code B to get into. Which will make almost no foreigner ever come close to Korea, and Koreans won't have time to particpate in other leagues anyways because of the shechuale that kespa and gom will have. You'll have PL, OSL, GSL all in Korea. Koreans will take those leagues over any foreign tournaments any day. Which means Koreans travelling outside Korea will be almost nil.
Nevermind the fact that if they were to even try to get koreans to particpate in leagues outside Korea, they would have to get kespa's approval, and that comes with having to pay big fees to kespa.
Kespa's staff 90% of the time is unresponsive or just don't care. They don't care about outside Korea, they never do, and never will. Its just Kespa's nature, their board of directors are all sponsors, and the sponsors are mostly Korean exclusive companies, so they don't care about leagues outside Korea. Which means teams like SKT or KT, won't send their players outside Korea, because they don't need the exposure outside Korea.
|
On April 06 2012 08:04 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 06:58 Kazuki wrote:On April 06 2012 06:54 maybenexttime wrote:
So Blizzard achieved their goal and effectively killed BW. Now that their eyes are on SC2, they'll milk it as much as possible and extort more money from tournament organizers, then they'll let the game rot. Disgusting. Yeah, that's why they just announced the world championships. To extort more money from tournament organizers. Maybe lift that stone you're lying under, and actually pay attention. Aren't they charging any bigger event like 50% of the sponsorship money? That's what I've read, I believe.
That's wrong. They wanted to charge a 5k prizepool tournament Totalbiscuit was running half the ad revenue, which would've been like $20. Larger tournaments get much better deals. Numbers are confidential, but Kennignit has said that Blizz is not nearly as money-grubbing as that number made people believe.
Regarding KeSPA vs Foreigners, here's the head of FXO (an SC2 team) on that:
Firstly, Proleague money will mean, koreans want to work harder for the korean events (minus a few exceptions of course).
As it stands, there would be 2 maybe 3 foreigners who would qualify for a A team spot to play in proleague. But they aren’t on Korean teams. Which means, they wouldnt be eligable for proleague either at least as I have been informed yesterday.
Next, in order to keep up with the level of play korea will produce, you will need a full korean support and presence in korea. Fnatic potentially will have that, but right now I don’t see any other ‘foreign labelled’ team doing so on their own. Which means that it eliminates the opportunity for a large number of foreigners to play in korea.
Foreign-korean partnerships are what the federation will be fighting for. Trying to keep teams as they are, and allowing for the foreigners to be there at the same time and potentially play via partnership. As it stands there is a threat of this being taken away. I dont want it, you don’t want it, we don’t want it. But the potential is there.
Now, what I am saying is NOT what will happen exactly. There is some sort of trade off thats going to happen. But I am merely stating potential under current information and circumstances.
However other things to keep in mind. If proleague starts, its unlikely the TOP koreans will attend foreign events due to scheduling/obligations. As far as scheduling goes, if proleague and GSL run side by side, my team would have time for 2 foreign events per year. This is an arrow in the knee to the koreans joining foreign teams. Its also a swift kick in the balls to foreign events banking on korean star popularity.
In other words, only Korean teams can play in Proleague, and team partnerships may not be allowed = No more foreigners in Korea, while the multiple SC2 leagues in Korea = No Koreans in America.
|
|
|
Netherlands45349 Posts
|
United States7639 Posts
|
|
|
Why can't we all just get along?
|
I can taste the BW Elitest tears already. If you can't visualize let me help you.
+ Show Spoiler +
User was temp banned for this post.
|
I have nothing left 
|
5003 Posts
On April 06 2012 09:26 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 09:21 Ribbon wrote:So, Jaedong confirmed by T8 captain to be switching to SC2? That's....ugh. That doesn't even make strategic sense. You have 6 players good at BW and 3 who are less good. If you think there's going to be a switch, have the B-team switch, since you're starting from scratch anyway. Most of the other BW teams are allegedly just going to poach SC2 players off the SC2 teams. Even if they don't, they're going to have a full time SC2 division and a full time BW division. Even Jaedong, if he half-and-halfs it, is going to get smashed by people like Soulkey in BW and...I dunno, Maru, in SC2. It's silly. I guess if we're looking for good news, Coach Ju technically works for KeSPA, and he's publically against ending BW, so maybe this weird half-and-half isn't a transition to anything, but just kind of the new status quo? BW is going to live on in this weird-ass state? Or maybe I'm right, and they're trying to sell BW to SC2 fans instead of the other way around, so that it can eventually return to it's own league all by itself supported by a foreign fanbase. On April 06 2012 06:04 Morfildur wrote:On April 06 2012 05:35 eviltomahawk wrote:On April 06 2012 05:22 danl9rm wrote:
I don't know what to say except WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Thanks rotin!
edit: Jaedong first SC2 BONJWA please. No. Flash first SC2 bonjwa, as foretold by the elder scrolls. Really interesting interview. The elephant is certainly going to make its presence known in the near future. However, I really am worried about weaker, smaller teams like Team 8 or Ace when the switch to SC2/BW comes. They already struggled as is in the pure BW Proleague, and I'm afraid that they will be even weaker in a hybrid format where the rest of the teams can afford to have many more B-teamers and practice partners to help in their transition. Perhaps the reason Ace pulled out of OSL to practice Proleague was to help their SC2 transition... And interesting to hear that a lot of high-masters on KR server are BW progamers. Makes me wonder whenever I'm watching a pro Korean stream if their opponent is secretly Flash or Jaedong in disguise. Certainly an interesting thought. And I'm surprised to hear the coach speak rather positively, but cautiously, of SC2. There are certainly very interesting times ahead. I would assume that those smaller teams will start a cooperation with existing SC2 teams to fill the holes in their lineup. I would even go so far to say that most BW teams will initially team up with current SC2 teams to benefit from the experience of existing SC2 pros and offering the raw talent of BW pros for practice in return. oGs-TL-KT incoming :p The SC2 teams and KeSPA seem not to get along. The SC2 teams even formed a club to protect them from KeSPA I'll take a bite at this though. It seems like they mentioned that they're going to have a joint league between two games (which I'm still uncomfortable with), yet they never specified HOW it's going to work out. Like I said in the past, you will never know if the players will be forced to play both games or be placed in a game where they're more comfortable in. And speaking realistically, I'm pretty sure some BW players wanted to switch yet they haven't done so because of the Korean SC2 "Team" Houses in Korea. Their facility, sponsorship, and salary is almost nothing compared to what current BW players have.
Of course they hate each other.
GOM hates KeSPA because they believe KeSPA teams boycotted and killed the GOM TV classics.
KeSPA hates GOM because of the entire IP rights fiasco, and the fact that GOM has been "bullying" KeSPA over the rights (first for BW, then for SC2) for some time. There also seems to be other reasons of why KeSPA dislikes GOM, but I have no way of verifying some of these claims so I won't bother mentioning them.
But yeah right now literally everything rests on Blizzard and how they decide to handle it. KeSPA/OGN/Blizzard are working very closely together.
|
This is sad. I understand why it has to be this way, and if it is what must be done to preserve half a BW league, then I guess I can get behind it. Doesn't make it any less sad though. T_T
|
On April 06 2012 10:39 hacklebeast wrote:
This is sad. I understand why it has to be this way, and if it is what must be done to preserve half a BW league, then I guess I can get behind it. Doesn't make it any less sad though. T_T
It has nothing to do with preserving BW. If they do this, they will do it for one or two seasons and then switch purely to SC2, unless a combined league is somehow wildly successful and just what everyone wanted (lol). This is just a ridiculous attempt to ween a few BW fans in Korean to SC2 before the real switch. I can't see them planning long term with a league like this... it's a gimmick for one season that will get old fast.
There's a chance coach ju is talking out his ass, but he's pretty much the most credible source we've had on anything so far. And if he's making JD play SC2, what else can you say.. It's an undignified send off for BW.
|
On April 06 2012 10:47 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 10:39 hacklebeast wrote:
This is sad. I understand why it has to be this way, and if it is what must be done to preserve half a BW league, then I guess I can get behind it. Doesn't make it any less sad though. T_T It has nothing to do with preserving BW. If they do this, they will do it for one or two seasons and then switch purely to SC2, unless a combined league is somehow wildly successful and just what everyone wanted (lol). This is just a ridiculous attempt to ween a few BW fans in Korean to SC2 before the real switch. I can't see them planning long term with a league like this... it's a gimmick for one season that will get old fast. There's a chance coach ju is talking out his ass, but he's pretty much the most credible source we've had on anything so far. And if he's making JD play SC2, what else can you say.. It's an undignified send off for BW.
agreed, but 2-3 half seasons before finally pulling the plug is better than this finals being the last SPL match with BW in it ever.
|
On April 06 2012 10:34 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 09:26 supernovamaniac wrote:On April 06 2012 09:21 Ribbon wrote:So, Jaedong confirmed by T8 captain to be switching to SC2? That's....ugh. That doesn't even make strategic sense. You have 6 players good at BW and 3 who are less good. If you think there's going to be a switch, have the B-team switch, since you're starting from scratch anyway. Most of the other BW teams are allegedly just going to poach SC2 players off the SC2 teams. Even if they don't, they're going to have a full time SC2 division and a full time BW division. Even Jaedong, if he half-and-halfs it, is going to get smashed by people like Soulkey in BW and...I dunno, Maru, in SC2. It's silly. I guess if we're looking for good news, Coach Ju technically works for KeSPA, and he's publically against ending BW, so maybe this weird half-and-half isn't a transition to anything, but just kind of the new status quo? BW is going to live on in this weird-ass state? Or maybe I'm right, and they're trying to sell BW to SC2 fans instead of the other way around, so that it can eventually return to it's own league all by itself supported by a foreign fanbase. On April 06 2012 06:04 Morfildur wrote:On April 06 2012 05:35 eviltomahawk wrote:On April 06 2012 05:22 danl9rm wrote:
I don't know what to say except WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Thanks rotin!
edit: Jaedong first SC2 BONJWA please. No. Flash first SC2 bonjwa, as foretold by the elder scrolls. Really interesting interview. The elephant is certainly going to make its presence known in the near future. However, I really am worried about weaker, smaller teams like Team 8 or Ace when the switch to SC2/BW comes. They already struggled as is in the pure BW Proleague, and I'm afraid that they will be even weaker in a hybrid format where the rest of the teams can afford to have many more B-teamers and practice partners to help in their transition. Perhaps the reason Ace pulled out of OSL to practice Proleague was to help their SC2 transition... And interesting to hear that a lot of high-masters on KR server are BW progamers. Makes me wonder whenever I'm watching a pro Korean stream if their opponent is secretly Flash or Jaedong in disguise. Certainly an interesting thought. And I'm surprised to hear the coach speak rather positively, but cautiously, of SC2. There are certainly very interesting times ahead. I would assume that those smaller teams will start a cooperation with existing SC2 teams to fill the holes in their lineup. I would even go so far to say that most BW teams will initially team up with current SC2 teams to benefit from the experience of existing SC2 pros and offering the raw talent of BW pros for practice in return. oGs-TL-KT incoming :p The SC2 teams and KeSPA seem not to get along. The SC2 teams even formed a club to protect them from KeSPA I'll take a bite at this though. It seems like they mentioned that they're going to have a joint league between two games (which I'm still uncomfortable with), yet they never specified HOW it's going to work out. Like I said in the past, you will never know if the players will be forced to play both games or be placed in a game where they're more comfortable in. And speaking realistically, I'm pretty sure some BW players wanted to switch yet they haven't done so because of the Korean SC2 "Team" Houses in Korea. Their facility, sponsorship, and salary is almost nothing compared to what current BW players have. Of course they hate each other. GOM hates KeSPA because they believe KeSPA teams boycotted and killed the GOM TV classics. KeSPA hates GOM because of the entire IP rights fiasco, and the fact that GOM has been "bullying" KeSPA over the rights (first for BW, then for SC2) for some time. There also seems to be other reasons of why KeSPA dislikes GOM, but I have no way of verifying some of these claims so I won't bother mentioning them. But yeah right now literally everything rests on Blizzard and how they decide to handle it. KeSPA/OGN/Blizzard are working very closely together.
I thought you were out?
Good to see you back in :D
|
This is horrible . I guess it's not the worst thing ever because there's still some BW but what happens the year after or the year after that?
|
On April 06 2012 10:55 RJGooner wrote:This is horrible  (. I guess it's not the worst thing ever because there's still some BW but what happens the year after or the year after that?
Community efforts.
I understand why everybody is sad to see this happening, but while BW's professional future in Korea is in a stage where we don't know what will happen, we surely know that the game will live on as long as there is a dedicated community. It would be very sad if everybody just went away with the end of Korean Starcraft. I've just joined this scene a short time ago, and I don't want to see it vanish.
After all, I won't give up all hope until everything is official.
|
If this is not some kind of joke, then it's a very sad moment.
This just makes things worse for both games in Korea. Kespa proving again and again it's a completely stupid organization.
|
On April 06 2012 11:03 RageCommodore wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 10:55 RJGooner wrote:This is horrible (. I guess it's not the worst thing ever because there's still some BW but what happens the year after or the year after that? Community efforts. I understand why everybody is sad to see this happening, but while BW's professional future in Korea is in a stage where we don't know what will happen, we surely know that the game will live on as long as there is a dedicated community. It would be very sad if everybody just went away with the end of Korean Starcraft. I've just joined this scene a short time ago, and I don't want to see it vanish. After all, I won't give up all hope until everything is official.
I'm absolutely certain that there will be people who stay. You won't see everyone vanish. Afreeca leagues will become more popular, foreign tournaments might make a bit of a resurgence. But there are definitely going to be people who after seeing BW played at its highest level aren't going to be interested in amateurs (for which the difference is massive, especially due to being played online). You will see some people leave no matter what as well. A lot of people won't even bother to watch a combined league, because even the BW games will be lower quality. Those people at most will play random pick up games once in awhile, with no real community involvement other than the person they play with.
A lot of BW fans are older, too, which will mean they'll see this as a time to take their responsibilities in real life more seriously. Whether that actually happens or they find themselves with more free time than they can replace, I don't know.
There are communities for a lot of games which have a fair amount of competition and never seem to die, but BW was the first game that challenged the idea that a video game couldn't be a sport, and to see it deteriorate to the level of a video game that only devoted fans play is not ideal. But like I've said before, the future is mysterious and we don't know if BW could become a real sport a second time. The chances of that happening are only as crazy as the chances of it happening the first time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
