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On April 05 2012 15:45 CakeSauc3 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 15:07 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 05:25 Pelopidas wrote:On April 03 2012 05:59 1Eris1 wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 Megaliskuu wrote:On April 03 2012 04:33 Apex wrote:On April 03 2012 03:59 Skwid1g wrote:On April 03 2012 03:55 Taekwon wrote:On April 03 2012 03:40 duncan.mc wrote:On April 03 2012 02:53 hauton wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This makes no sense
SC2 has zero traction in Korea anyways. It's long past its expiry date. Nobody cares about a game released nearly 2 years ago.
Mixing SC2 with BW won't get me to start watching SC2, I'll just stop watching BW. Period. You're using this argument as a BW fan? Uh, huh. Except Brood War just so happens to already be the rave. Use your head. Except s c2 does have a huge fanbase outside of Korea.They're trying to garner more attention inside Korea as well as getting the foreign fans to watch like GOM has. With that being said, they shouldn't be together in any way. Same teams for both games would be nice, but neither team should influence one another. Having sc2 being mixed with BW doesn't make sense imo, I enjoy watching sc2 but mixing them is an AWFUL idea. I'm hoping it's just a separate team league for SC2, but I guess we'll see. Meh, it seems to be more high-profile but not necessarily huge fanbase. Someone earlier said it best: zealous but not large. So many people here are so blind, sc2 has a huuuuuge fanbase outside of korea man, just look at MLGs and streams and stuff. I don't care for the game and wouldn't even be sad if the entire sc2 scene died overnight, but to say it isn't really popular is just delusional. Popular/huge are subjective terms. MLGs best numbers were 250k I believe and GSL seems to average a few hundred thousand on its code S vods. (this isn't all of the sc2 fans either, but I imagine it makes up the core percentage that can be classified as solid fans) Now hundreds of thousands is certainly a lot of people, much more than most of us can picture, but it pales (and I mean pales) in comparison to BW at its height and it is still considerably less than the Korea fan base to this day. 250k accross all games, including LoL and COD. Probably less that 40% of that is SC2 On April 05 2012 03:18 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 03:01 Azriel wrote:
This is going to make Blizzard/Kespa look like ass when SC2 dies in a year or so. I have never understood why pro BW anti SC2 comments like this dont even receive a warning, if I said this about BW, I would have been banned. And you are incorrect, SC2 has a massive and dedicated fanbase in the foreign scene, and it only will be growing. Once North America catches on, and starts offering professional gamers real money like a real job, you will see it become a legitimate path to follow out here, and any and all talent in NA will bloom more then it has. And honestly, once The Big 3 (JD, Flash, Bisu) switch over to Sc2, their massive fanbase will follow them into Sc2, there might be some that dont, but if you dont think that the vast majority of people wouldnt watch Jeadong play even fucking League of Legends, you are deluding yourself x) If you actually believe this you are deluding yourself. SC2 is not destined to become mainstrean in North America. The fanbase is shrinking not growing. Nothing will make SC2 replicate the success of BW in Korea. ...I have followed every MLG since the beginning, there is thousands upon thousands more viewers then there used to be, what in the hell are you talking about dude? When I started playing, there was roughly 500K players on battlenet at any given time, now when I go on, it is EXTREMELY rare, and I mean "holy shit this never happens" rare that I see it dip below 800K people, usually when i play it is 1 million or 1 million plus people online, and you are actually going to claim with a factual tone that the fanbase is shrinking? .....lawl? How do you figure? GOMtv reported that the GSL had over 50 million foreign viewers early last year, and last they reported, those numbers were doubling by the season. The number one country that tuned in to their site was the United States, though obviously many other countries can be found on that list. Also notable was the 12 million viewers from China. + Show Spoiler +Source: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/2969/MLG, however, only reported about 250k viewers in December of last year, but with a 225% growth in viewers from 2010. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what the definition of "viewer" is, however. 50 million in the GSL vs. 250k in MLG seems like a huge difference, and I would have expected those to be closer. Not sure if they're countinig in the same way, or if they are, then GSL is WAY better known. Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least. As someone before me said, the fanbase for sc2 isn't likely to get smaller until after both expansions have been released and have had a few years to cool off. Kind of like how bw is now. Once the game is old, people will lose interest.As of right now, all signs point to sc2's growth, not demise. And no, for the record, I'm not anti bw - it's a great game, but sc2 is what has the spotlight now. The idea of combining both games into one league is... well, it's definitely interesting. I hope that the format doesn't end up being as awkward as it sounds (each player having to prepare to play both games? Really? The quality of practice and therefore gameplay that each pro will be able to show for it will be cut in half, if that's the case) and what I would rather see is maybe teams forming that have bw players AND sc2 players, but still competing in different leagues, or at least in team matches where both games are played in an overall series.
Time difference. It's hard to follow GSL when it's like 5am in america.
@ Ribbon: I highly doubt BW fans don't care about learning the game. I'd doubt they'd do post game interviews and replays if that were the case.
@MountainDewJunkie: Yah should have a tournament where they AREN'T allowed to look at the tabs or at least not use any numbers at all. It might actually be good casting technique to intentionally hide information.
But yeah, we should bribe PL mapmaker with food and tell him to make 6m 1hyg maps.
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On April 05 2012 09:58 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
This seems like a good time for my remaining favorite BW pros to hang up their mouses and go to college or something.
Look I'm not a huge fan of SC2, I admit that. But you'll see from my posts that I've watched quite a few SC2 events. I like IPL Fightclub, for example. I'll watch a couple of games when MLG is going. Very casual. But allow me to say this: if we momentarily suspend the argument of which game is more dynamic, we can all admit that SC2 is not nearly as enjoyable as an observer. During the gaps in action in SC2 games, we are constantly being bombarded with statistics and progress. MC's stalker blink is 50% upgraded, let's look at the income tabs, we can see Idra has lost X workers, Nestea has 15 broodlords morphing and exactly 12 more corruptors are about to hatch... There's a lot of suspense missing. The lack if information makes brood war a little intense. Like in a tense ZvP, a large battle ensues, protoss pushes zerg back, then the observer looks at a moving line on the minimap. We see 15 speedlots heading in, and the crowd and commentators go, "WAHH" In SC2, you already know when they're being built. Stats like how many workers were killed are cute, but not informative, beyond seeing that "a lot" of workers were killed, or seeing how unsuccessful some harasses are. But you don't need a worker kill tab to know these. And think about this: there was a famous game where Jaedong forgot to research consume vs Flash. No one knew about until the critical final battle. Everyone was like, "Holy shit!" But in SC2, if you keep somewhat track of all those progress tabs that are ALWAYS atop the screen, when someone forgets a critical upgrade, you hear commentators say, "HerO forgot storm research, this battle won't be pretty." Where's the fun? The outcomes of battles are a little more predictable because of all of this information. And here's an aesthetic complaint: unit animation of death in Brood War are sooo much more satisfying, vivid, loud. When I watch SC2, I see blobs of units die at a time. And when workers die they just kind of *poof* quietly.
Well fantasy is thinking of opening up a Bar shop in his hometown after retiring  . Liquid business these days are quite good they say you know alcohol and etc .
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On April 05 2012 18:31 Nazza wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 15:45 CakeSauc3 wrote:On April 05 2012 15:07 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 05:25 Pelopidas wrote:On April 03 2012 05:59 1Eris1 wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 Megaliskuu wrote:On April 03 2012 04:33 Apex wrote:On April 03 2012 03:59 Skwid1g wrote:On April 03 2012 03:55 Taekwon wrote:On April 03 2012 03:40 duncan.mc wrote:
[quote]
You're using this argument as a BW fan? Uh, huh. Except Brood War just so happens to already be the rave. Use your head. Except s c2 does have a huge fanbase outside of Korea.They're trying to garner more attention inside Korea as well as getting the foreign fans to watch like GOM has. With that being said, they shouldn't be together in any way. Same teams for both games would be nice, but neither team should influence one another. Having sc2 being mixed with BW doesn't make sense imo, I enjoy watching sc2 but mixing them is an AWFUL idea. I'm hoping it's just a separate team league for SC2, but I guess we'll see. Meh, it seems to be more high-profile but not necessarily huge fanbase. Someone earlier said it best: zealous but not large. So many people here are so blind, sc2 has a huuuuuge fanbase outside of korea man, just look at MLGs and streams and stuff. I don't care for the game and wouldn't even be sad if the entire sc2 scene died overnight, but to say it isn't really popular is just delusional. Popular/huge are subjective terms. MLGs best numbers were 250k I believe and GSL seems to average a few hundred thousand on its code S vods. (this isn't all of the sc2 fans either, but I imagine it makes up the core percentage that can be classified as solid fans) Now hundreds of thousands is certainly a lot of people, much more than most of us can picture, but it pales (and I mean pales) in comparison to BW at its height and it is still considerably less than the Korea fan base to this day. 250k accross all games, including LoL and COD. Probably less that 40% of that is SC2 On April 05 2012 03:18 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 03:01 Azriel wrote:
This is going to make Blizzard/Kespa look like ass when SC2 dies in a year or so. I have never understood why pro BW anti SC2 comments like this dont even receive a warning, if I said this about BW, I would have been banned. And you are incorrect, SC2 has a massive and dedicated fanbase in the foreign scene, and it only will be growing. Once North America catches on, and starts offering professional gamers real money like a real job, you will see it become a legitimate path to follow out here, and any and all talent in NA will bloom more then it has. And honestly, once The Big 3 (JD, Flash, Bisu) switch over to Sc2, their massive fanbase will follow them into Sc2, there might be some that dont, but if you dont think that the vast majority of people wouldnt watch Jeadong play even fucking League of Legends, you are deluding yourself x) If you actually believe this you are deluding yourself. SC2 is not destined to become mainstrean in North America. The fanbase is shrinking not growing. Nothing will make SC2 replicate the success of BW in Korea. ...I have followed every MLG since the beginning, there is thousands upon thousands more viewers then there used to be, what in the hell are you talking about dude? When I started playing, there was roughly 500K players on battlenet at any given time, now when I go on, it is EXTREMELY rare, and I mean "holy shit this never happens" rare that I see it dip below 800K people, usually when i play it is 1 million or 1 million plus people online, and you are actually going to claim with a factual tone that the fanbase is shrinking? .....lawl? How do you figure? GOMtv reported that the GSL had over 50 million foreign viewers early last year, and last they reported, those numbers were doubling by the season. The number one country that tuned in to their site was the United States, though obviously many other countries can be found on that list. Also notable was the 12 million viewers from China. + Show Spoiler +Source: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/2969/MLG, however, only reported about 250k viewers in December of last year, but with a 225% growth in viewers from 2010. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what the definition of "viewer" is, however. 50 million in the GSL vs. 250k in MLG seems like a huge difference, and I would have expected those to be closer. Not sure if they're countinig in the same way, or if they are, then GSL is WAY better known. Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least. As someone before me said, the fanbase for sc2 isn't likely to get smaller until after both expansions have been released and have had a few years to cool off. Kind of like how bw is now. Once the game is old, people will lose interest.As of right now, all signs point to sc2's growth, not demise. And no, for the record, I'm not anti bw - it's a great game, but sc2 is what has the spotlight now. The idea of combining both games into one league is... well, it's definitely interesting. I hope that the format doesn't end up being as awkward as it sounds (each player having to prepare to play both games? Really? The quality of practice and therefore gameplay that each pro will be able to show for it will be cut in half, if that's the case) and what I would rather see is maybe teams forming that have bw players AND sc2 players, but still competing in different leagues, or at least in team matches where both games are played in an overall series. Time difference. It's hard to follow GSL when it's like 5am in america. @ Ribbon: I highly doubt BW fans don't care about learning the game. I'd doubt they'd do post game interviews and replays if that were the case.
Well, comparitively. Obviously many BW watchers are also BW players, but that's not really the draw, I think, to most of us. We're not really watching Flash with our build order notebooks out.
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On April 05 2012 15:45 CakeSauc3 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 15:07 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 05:25 Pelopidas wrote:On April 03 2012 05:59 1Eris1 wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 Megaliskuu wrote:On April 03 2012 04:33 Apex wrote:On April 03 2012 03:59 Skwid1g wrote:On April 03 2012 03:55 Taekwon wrote:On April 03 2012 03:40 duncan.mc wrote:On April 03 2012 02:53 hauton wrote:
This makes no sense
SC2 has zero traction in Korea anyways. It's long past its expiry date. Nobody cares about a game released nearly 2 years ago.
Mixing SC2 with BW won't get me to start watching SC2, I'll just stop watching BW. Period. You're using this argument as a BW fan? Uh, huh. Except Brood War just so happens to already be the rave. Use your head. Except s c2 does have a huge fanbase outside of Korea.They're trying to garner more attention inside Korea as well as getting the foreign fans to watch like GOM has. With that being said, they shouldn't be together in any way. Same teams for both games would be nice, but neither team should influence one another. Having sc2 being mixed with BW doesn't make sense imo, I enjoy watching sc2 but mixing them is an AWFUL idea. I'm hoping it's just a separate team league for SC2, but I guess we'll see. Meh, it seems to be more high-profile but not necessarily huge fanbase. Someone earlier said it best: zealous but not large. So many people here are so blind, sc2 has a huuuuuge fanbase outside of korea man, just look at MLGs and streams and stuff. I don't care for the game and wouldn't even be sad if the entire sc2 scene died overnight, but to say it isn't really popular is just delusional. Popular/huge are subjective terms. MLGs best numbers were 250k I believe and GSL seems to average a few hundred thousand on its code S vods. (this isn't all of the sc2 fans either, but I imagine it makes up the core percentage that can be classified as solid fans) Now hundreds of thousands is certainly a lot of people, much more than most of us can picture, but it pales (and I mean pales) in comparison to BW at its height and it is still considerably less than the Korea fan base to this day. 250k accross all games, including LoL and COD. Probably less that 40% of that is SC2 On April 05 2012 03:18 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 03:01 Azriel wrote:
This is going to make Blizzard/Kespa look like ass when SC2 dies in a year or so. I have never understood why pro BW anti SC2 comments like this dont even receive a warning, if I said this about BW, I would have been banned. And you are incorrect, SC2 has a massive and dedicated fanbase in the foreign scene, and it only will be growing. Once North America catches on, and starts offering professional gamers real money like a real job, you will see it become a legitimate path to follow out here, and any and all talent in NA will bloom more then it has. And honestly, once The Big 3 (JD, Flash, Bisu) switch over to Sc2, their massive fanbase will follow them into Sc2, there might be some that dont, but if you dont think that the vast majority of people wouldnt watch Jeadong play even fucking League of Legends, you are deluding yourself x) If you actually believe this you are deluding yourself. SC2 is not destined to become mainstrean in North America. The fanbase is shrinking not growing. Nothing will make SC2 replicate the success of BW in Korea. ...I have followed every MLG since the beginning, there is thousands upon thousands more viewers then there used to be, what in the hell are you talking about dude? When I started playing, there was roughly 500K players on battlenet at any given time, now when I go on, it is EXTREMELY rare, and I mean "holy shit this never happens" rare that I see it dip below 800K people, usually when i play it is 1 million or 1 million plus people online, and you are actually going to claim with a factual tone that the fanbase is shrinking? .....lawl? How do you figure? GOMtv reported that the GSL had over 50 million foreign viewers early last year, and last they reported, those numbers were doubling by the season. The number one country that tuned in to their site was the United States, though obviously many other countries can be found on that list. Also notable was the 12 million viewers from China. + Show Spoiler +MLG, however, only reported about 250k viewers in December of last year, but with a 225% growth in viewers from 2010. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what the definition of "viewer" is, however. 50 million in the GSL vs. 250k in MLG seems like a huge difference, and I would have expected those to be closer. Not sure if they're countinig in the same way, or if they are, then GSL is WAY better known. Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least. As someone before me said, the fanbase for sc2 isn't likely to get smaller until after both expansions have been released and have had a few years to cool off. Kind of like how bw is now. Once the game is old, people will lose interest.As of right now, all signs point to sc2's growth, not demise. And no, for the record, I'm not anti bw - it's a great game, but sc2 is what has the spotlight now. The idea of combining both games into one league is... well, it's definitely interesting. I hope that the format doesn't end up being as awkward as it sounds (each player having to prepare to play both games? Really? The quality of practice and therefore gameplay that each pro will be able to show for it will be cut in half, if that's the case) and what I would rather see is maybe teams forming that have bw players AND sc2 players, but still competing in different leagues, or at least in team matches where both games are played in an overall series.
Thank you for your factual posting with actual relevant information, not just your bias.
To the guy I originally qouted....
I guess you can eat your words since I was prepared to eat mine?
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On April 05 2012 15:45 CakeSauc3 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 15:07 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 05:25 Pelopidas wrote:On April 03 2012 05:59 1Eris1 wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 Megaliskuu wrote:On April 03 2012 04:33 Apex wrote:On April 03 2012 03:59 Skwid1g wrote:On April 03 2012 03:55 Taekwon wrote:On April 03 2012 03:40 duncan.mc wrote:On April 03 2012 02:53 hauton wrote:
This makes no sense
SC2 has zero traction in Korea anyways. It's long past its expiry date. Nobody cares about a game released nearly 2 years ago.
Mixing SC2 with BW won't get me to start watching SC2, I'll just stop watching BW. Period. You're using this argument as a BW fan? Uh, huh. Except Brood War just so happens to already be the rave. Use your head. Except s c2 does have a huge fanbase outside of Korea.They're trying to garner more attention inside Korea as well as getting the foreign fans to watch like GOM has. With that being said, they shouldn't be together in any way. Same teams for both games would be nice, but neither team should influence one another. Having sc2 being mixed with BW doesn't make sense imo, I enjoy watching sc2 but mixing them is an AWFUL idea. I'm hoping it's just a separate team league for SC2, but I guess we'll see. Meh, it seems to be more high-profile but not necessarily huge fanbase. Someone earlier said it best: zealous but not large. So many people here are so blind, sc2 has a huuuuuge fanbase outside of korea man, just look at MLGs and streams and stuff. I don't care for the game and wouldn't even be sad if the entire sc2 scene died overnight, but to say it isn't really popular is just delusional. Popular/huge are subjective terms. MLGs best numbers were 250k I believe and GSL seems to average a few hundred thousand on its code S vods. (this isn't all of the sc2 fans either, but I imagine it makes up the core percentage that can be classified as solid fans) Now hundreds of thousands is certainly a lot of people, much more than most of us can picture, but it pales (and I mean pales) in comparison to BW at its height and it is still considerably less than the Korea fan base to this day. 250k accross all games, including LoL and COD. Probably less that 40% of that is SC2 On April 05 2012 03:18 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 03:01 Azriel wrote:
This is going to make Blizzard/Kespa look like ass when SC2 dies in a year or so. I have never understood why pro BW anti SC2 comments like this dont even receive a warning, if I said this about BW, I would have been banned. And you are incorrect, SC2 has a massive and dedicated fanbase in the foreign scene, and it only will be growing. Once North America catches on, and starts offering professional gamers real money like a real job, you will see it become a legitimate path to follow out here, and any and all talent in NA will bloom more then it has. And honestly, once The Big 3 (JD, Flash, Bisu) switch over to Sc2, their massive fanbase will follow them into Sc2, there might be some that dont, but if you dont think that the vast majority of people wouldnt watch Jeadong play even fucking League of Legends, you are deluding yourself x) If you actually believe this you are deluding yourself. SC2 is not destined to become mainstrean in North America. The fanbase is shrinking not growing. Nothing will make SC2 replicate the success of BW in Korea. ...I have followed every MLG since the beginning, there is thousands upon thousands more viewers then there used to be, what in the hell are you talking about dude? When I started playing, there was roughly 500K players on battlenet at any given time, now when I go on, it is EXTREMELY rare, and I mean "holy shit this never happens" rare that I see it dip below 800K people, usually when i play it is 1 million or 1 million plus people online, and you are actually going to claim with a factual tone that the fanbase is shrinking? .....lawl? How do you figure? GOMtv reported that the GSL had over 50 million foreign viewers early last year, and last they reported, those numbers were doubling by the season. The number one country that tuned in to their site was the United States, though obviously many other countries can be found on that list. Also notable was the 12 million viewers from China. + Show Spoiler +MLG, however, only reported about 250k viewers in December of last year, but with a 225% growth in viewers from 2010. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what the definition of "viewer" is, however. 50 million in the GSL vs. 250k in MLG seems like a huge difference, and I would have expected those to be closer. Not sure if they're countinig in the same way, or if they are, then GSL is WAY better known.
They got that number by adding the number of views of all the VODs and live broadcasts together. Its a garbage figure because it doesn't even attempt to determine unique viewers, it only shows total views, and multiplies the real number of viewers by several hundred.
Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least.
As someone before me said, the fanbase for sc2 isn't likely to get smaller until after both expansions have been released and have had a few years to cool off. Kind of like how bw is now. Once the game is old, people will lose interest.As of right now, all signs point to sc2's growth, not demise.
But Sc2 is shrinking, everyone I know has stopped playing, and many threads on TL will show other people's experiences are similar. Stream views are eclipsed by LoL, which easily surpassed SC2 within a matter of months. The 1 million players on battle.net includes both WoW and SC2. SC2 is only a fraction of that number considering the popularity of WoW.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 15:45 CakeSauc3 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 15:07 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 05:25 Pelopidas wrote:On April 03 2012 05:59 1Eris1 wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 Megaliskuu wrote:On April 03 2012 04:33 Apex wrote:On April 03 2012 03:59 Skwid1g wrote:On April 03 2012 03:55 Taekwon wrote:On April 03 2012 03:40 duncan.mc wrote:On April 03 2012 02:53 hauton wrote:
This makes no sense
SC2 has zero traction in Korea anyways. It's long past its expiry date. Nobody cares about a game released nearly 2 years ago.
Mixing SC2 with BW won't get me to start watching SC2, I'll just stop watching BW. Period. You're using this argument as a BW fan? Uh, huh. Except Brood War just so happens to already be the rave. Use your head. Except s c2 does have a huge fanbase outside of Korea.They're trying to garner more attention inside Korea as well as getting the foreign fans to watch like GOM has. With that being said, they shouldn't be together in any way. Same teams for both games would be nice, but neither team should influence one another. Having sc2 being mixed with BW doesn't make sense imo, I enjoy watching sc2 but mixing them is an AWFUL idea. I'm hoping it's just a separate team league for SC2, but I guess we'll see. Meh, it seems to be more high-profile but not necessarily huge fanbase. Someone earlier said it best: zealous but not large. So many people here are so blind, sc2 has a huuuuuge fanbase outside of korea man, just look at MLGs and streams and stuff. I don't care for the game and wouldn't even be sad if the entire sc2 scene died overnight, but to say it isn't really popular is just delusional. Popular/huge are subjective terms. MLGs best numbers were 250k I believe and GSL seems to average a few hundred thousand on its code S vods. (this isn't all of the sc2 fans either, but I imagine it makes up the core percentage that can be classified as solid fans) Now hundreds of thousands is certainly a lot of people, much more than most of us can picture, but it pales (and I mean pales) in comparison to BW at its height and it is still considerably less than the Korea fan base to this day. 250k accross all games, including LoL and COD. Probably less that 40% of that is SC2 On April 05 2012 03:18 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 03:01 Azriel wrote:
This is going to make Blizzard/Kespa look like ass when SC2 dies in a year or so. I have never understood why pro BW anti SC2 comments like this dont even receive a warning, if I said this about BW, I would have been banned. And you are incorrect, SC2 has a massive and dedicated fanbase in the foreign scene, and it only will be growing. Once North America catches on, and starts offering professional gamers real money like a real job, you will see it become a legitimate path to follow out here, and any and all talent in NA will bloom more then it has. And honestly, once The Big 3 (JD, Flash, Bisu) switch over to Sc2, their massive fanbase will follow them into Sc2, there might be some that dont, but if you dont think that the vast majority of people wouldnt watch Jeadong play even fucking League of Legends, you are deluding yourself x) If you actually believe this you are deluding yourself. SC2 is not destined to become mainstrean in North America. The fanbase is shrinking not growing. Nothing will make SC2 replicate the success of BW in Korea. ...I have followed every MLG since the beginning, there is thousands upon thousands more viewers then there used to be, what in the hell are you talking about dude? When I started playing, there was roughly 500K players on battlenet at any given time, now when I go on, it is EXTREMELY rare, and I mean "holy shit this never happens" rare that I see it dip below 800K people, usually when i play it is 1 million or 1 million plus people online, and you are actually going to claim with a factual tone that the fanbase is shrinking? .....lawl? How do you figure? GOMtv reported that the GSL had over 50 million foreign viewers early last year, and last they reported, those numbers were doubling by the season. The number one country that tuned in to their site was the United States, though obviously many other countries can be found on that list. Also notable was the 12 million viewers from China. + Show Spoiler +MLG, however, only reported about 250k viewers in December of last year, but with a 225% growth in viewers from 2010. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what the definition of "viewer" is, however. 50 million in the GSL vs. 250k in MLG seems like a huge difference, and I would have expected those to be closer. Not sure if they're countinig in the same way, or if they are, then GSL is WAY better known. Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least. As someone before me said, the fanbase for sc2 isn't likely to get smaller until after both expansions have been released and have had a few years to cool off. Kind of like how bw is now. Once the game is old, people will lose interest.As of right now, all signs point to sc2's growth, not demise. And no, for the record, I'm not anti bw - it's a great game, but sc2 is what has the spotlight now. The idea of combining both games into one league is... well, it's definitely interesting. I hope that the format doesn't end up being as awkward as it sounds (each player having to prepare to play both games? Really? The quality of practice and therefore gameplay that each pro will be able to show for it will be cut in half, if that's the case) and what I would rather see is maybe teams forming that have bw players AND sc2 players, but still competing in different leagues, or at least in team matches where both games are played in an overall series.
One comment regarding the idea of PL having some players BW focused, and some SC2 focused:
It would create a potential opportunity disparity for the teams, where their SC2 players have the opportunity to travel and play at these global events while their top BW players wouldn't have the same opportunity. That would seem a bit unfair
I feel the global opportunities are the biggest draw card for the current BW players, and I'm really interested to see how it plays out, and when we are likely to see them travel to international events.
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United States7481 Posts
On April 06 2012 01:16 Pure-SC2 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 15:45 CakeSauc3 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 15:07 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 05:25 Pelopidas wrote:On April 03 2012 05:59 1Eris1 wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 Megaliskuu wrote:On April 03 2012 04:33 Apex wrote:On April 03 2012 03:59 Skwid1g wrote:On April 03 2012 03:55 Taekwon wrote:On April 03 2012 03:40 duncan.mc wrote:On April 03 2012 02:53 hauton wrote:
This makes no sense
SC2 has zero traction in Korea anyways. It's long past its expiry date. Nobody cares about a game released nearly 2 years ago.
Mixing SC2 with BW won't get me to start watching SC2, I'll just stop watching BW. Period. You're using this argument as a BW fan? Uh, huh. Except Brood War just so happens to already be the rave. Use your head. Except s c2 does have a huge fanbase outside of Korea.They're trying to garner more attention inside Korea as well as getting the foreign fans to watch like GOM has. With that being said, they shouldn't be together in any way. Same teams for both games would be nice, but neither team should influence one another. Having sc2 being mixed with BW doesn't make sense imo, I enjoy watching sc2 but mixing them is an AWFUL idea. I'm hoping it's just a separate team league for SC2, but I guess we'll see. Meh, it seems to be more high-profile but not necessarily huge fanbase. Someone earlier said it best: zealous but not large. So many people here are so blind, sc2 has a huuuuuge fanbase outside of korea man, just look at MLGs and streams and stuff. I don't care for the game and wouldn't even be sad if the entire sc2 scene died overnight, but to say it isn't really popular is just delusional. Popular/huge are subjective terms. MLGs best numbers were 250k I believe and GSL seems to average a few hundred thousand on its code S vods. (this isn't all of the sc2 fans either, but I imagine it makes up the core percentage that can be classified as solid fans) Now hundreds of thousands is certainly a lot of people, much more than most of us can picture, but it pales (and I mean pales) in comparison to BW at its height and it is still considerably less than the Korea fan base to this day. 250k accross all games, including LoL and COD. Probably less that 40% of that is SC2 On April 05 2012 03:18 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 03:01 Azriel wrote:
This is going to make Blizzard/Kespa look like ass when SC2 dies in a year or so. I have never understood why pro BW anti SC2 comments like this dont even receive a warning, if I said this about BW, I would have been banned. And you are incorrect, SC2 has a massive and dedicated fanbase in the foreign scene, and it only will be growing. Once North America catches on, and starts offering professional gamers real money like a real job, you will see it become a legitimate path to follow out here, and any and all talent in NA will bloom more then it has. And honestly, once The Big 3 (JD, Flash, Bisu) switch over to Sc2, their massive fanbase will follow them into Sc2, there might be some that dont, but if you dont think that the vast majority of people wouldnt watch Jeadong play even fucking League of Legends, you are deluding yourself x) If you actually believe this you are deluding yourself. SC2 is not destined to become mainstrean in North America. The fanbase is shrinking not growing. Nothing will make SC2 replicate the success of BW in Korea. ...I have followed every MLG since the beginning, there is thousands upon thousands more viewers then there used to be, what in the hell are you talking about dude? When I started playing, there was roughly 500K players on battlenet at any given time, now when I go on, it is EXTREMELY rare, and I mean "holy shit this never happens" rare that I see it dip below 800K people, usually when i play it is 1 million or 1 million plus people online, and you are actually going to claim with a factual tone that the fanbase is shrinking? .....lawl? How do you figure? GOMtv reported that the GSL had over 50 million foreign viewers early last year, and last they reported, those numbers were doubling by the season. The number one country that tuned in to their site was the United States, though obviously many other countries can be found on that list. Also notable was the 12 million viewers from China. + Show Spoiler +MLG, however, only reported about 250k viewers in December of last year, but with a 225% growth in viewers from 2010. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what the definition of "viewer" is, however. 50 million in the GSL vs. 250k in MLG seems like a huge difference, and I would have expected those to be closer. Not sure if they're countinig in the same way, or if they are, then GSL is WAY better known. Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least. As someone before me said, the fanbase for sc2 isn't likely to get smaller until after both expansions have been released and have had a few years to cool off. Kind of like how bw is now. Once the game is old, people will lose interest.As of right now, all signs point to sc2's growth, not demise. And no, for the record, I'm not anti bw - it's a great game, but sc2 is what has the spotlight now. The idea of combining both games into one league is... well, it's definitely interesting. I hope that the format doesn't end up being as awkward as it sounds (each player having to prepare to play both games? Really? The quality of practice and therefore gameplay that each pro will be able to show for it will be cut in half, if that's the case) and what I would rather see is maybe teams forming that have bw players AND sc2 players, but still competing in different leagues, or at least in team matches where both games are played in an overall series. One comment regarding the idea of PL having some players BW focused, and some SC2 focused: It would create a potential opportunity disparity for the teams, where their SC2 players have the opportunity to travel and play at these global events while their top BW players wouldn't have the same opportunity. That would seem a bit unfair I feel the global opportunities are the biggest draw card for the current BW players, and I'm really interested to see how it plays out, and when we are likely to see them travel to international events.
Yeah in the Ju Hoon interview that was posted today, a lot of the stuff he said when talking about sc2 was its global presence
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On April 06 2012 01:13 Pelopidas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 15:45 CakeSauc3 wrote:On April 05 2012 15:07 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 05:25 Pelopidas wrote:On April 03 2012 05:59 1Eris1 wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 Megaliskuu wrote:On April 03 2012 04:33 Apex wrote:On April 03 2012 03:59 Skwid1g wrote:On April 03 2012 03:55 Taekwon wrote:On April 03 2012 03:40 duncan.mc wrote:
[quote]
You're using this argument as a BW fan? Uh, huh. Except Brood War just so happens to already be the rave. Use your head. Except s c2 does have a huge fanbase outside of Korea.They're trying to garner more attention inside Korea as well as getting the foreign fans to watch like GOM has. With that being said, they shouldn't be together in any way. Same teams for both games would be nice, but neither team should influence one another. Having sc2 being mixed with BW doesn't make sense imo, I enjoy watching sc2 but mixing them is an AWFUL idea. I'm hoping it's just a separate team league for SC2, but I guess we'll see. Meh, it seems to be more high-profile but not necessarily huge fanbase. Someone earlier said it best: zealous but not large. So many people here are so blind, sc2 has a huuuuuge fanbase outside of korea man, just look at MLGs and streams and stuff. I don't care for the game and wouldn't even be sad if the entire sc2 scene died overnight, but to say it isn't really popular is just delusional. Popular/huge are subjective terms. MLGs best numbers were 250k I believe and GSL seems to average a few hundred thousand on its code S vods. (this isn't all of the sc2 fans either, but I imagine it makes up the core percentage that can be classified as solid fans) Now hundreds of thousands is certainly a lot of people, much more than most of us can picture, but it pales (and I mean pales) in comparison to BW at its height and it is still considerably less than the Korea fan base to this day. 250k accross all games, including LoL and COD. Probably less that 40% of that is SC2 On April 05 2012 03:18 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 03:01 Azriel wrote:
This is going to make Blizzard/Kespa look like ass when SC2 dies in a year or so. I have never understood why pro BW anti SC2 comments like this dont even receive a warning, if I said this about BW, I would have been banned. And you are incorrect, SC2 has a massive and dedicated fanbase in the foreign scene, and it only will be growing. Once North America catches on, and starts offering professional gamers real money like a real job, you will see it become a legitimate path to follow out here, and any and all talent in NA will bloom more then it has. And honestly, once The Big 3 (JD, Flash, Bisu) switch over to Sc2, their massive fanbase will follow them into Sc2, there might be some that dont, but if you dont think that the vast majority of people wouldnt watch Jeadong play even fucking League of Legends, you are deluding yourself x) If you actually believe this you are deluding yourself. SC2 is not destined to become mainstrean in North America. The fanbase is shrinking not growing. Nothing will make SC2 replicate the success of BW in Korea. ...I have followed every MLG since the beginning, there is thousands upon thousands more viewers then there used to be, what in the hell are you talking about dude? When I started playing, there was roughly 500K players on battlenet at any given time, now when I go on, it is EXTREMELY rare, and I mean "holy shit this never happens" rare that I see it dip below 800K people, usually when i play it is 1 million or 1 million plus people online, and you are actually going to claim with a factual tone that the fanbase is shrinking? .....lawl? How do you figure? GOMtv reported that the GSL had over 50 million foreign viewers early last year, and last they reported, those numbers were doubling by the season. The number one country that tuned in to their site was the United States, though obviously many other countries can be found on that list. Also notable was the 12 million viewers from China. + Show Spoiler +MLG, however, only reported about 250k viewers in December of last year, but with a 225% growth in viewers from 2010. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what the definition of "viewer" is, however. 50 million in the GSL vs. 250k in MLG seems like a huge difference, and I would have expected those to be closer. Not sure if they're countinig in the same way, or if they are, then GSL is WAY better known. They got that number by adding the number of views of all the VODs and live broadcasts together. Its a garbage figure because it doesn't even attempt to determine unique viewers, it only shows total views, and multiplies the real number of viewers by several hundred. Show nested quote +
Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least.
As someone before me said, the fanbase for sc2 isn't likely to get smaller until after both expansions have been released and have had a few years to cool off. Kind of like how bw is now. Once the game is old, people will lose interest.As of right now, all signs point to sc2's growth, not demise.
But Sc2 is shrinking, everyone I know has stopped playing, and many threads on TL will show other people's experiences are similar. Stream views are eclipsed by LoL, which easily surpassed SC2 within a matter of months. The 1 million players on battle.net includes both WoW and SC2. SC2 is only a fraction of that number considering the popularity of WoW.
The playing of SC2 is maybe shrinking, but stream numbers are growing, barcrafts are growing, MLG was succesful (sp) with a PPV model, there are so many tourneys with a big prizepool etc. And with HotS coming SC2 is only gonna get bigger. LoL is bigger than SC2, but that doesn't take away from the fact that SC2 is still HUGE as a foreign eSport.
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If only SC2 were half as good as BW...
No matter how OGN handle it's leagues, SC2 will continue to be SC2 with all its problems and people will continue to dislike it.
If Bisu ever switches, that won't make people like SC2 more, unless he somehow manages to make SC2 looks less dull and less of a "try-hard to be BW, but without what made it perfect" game.
But whatever, we can argue day in night out and it won't change jackshit.
Facts are facts, rumours are rumours and all we can do is to wait.
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5003 Posts
Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least.
PL back in 2005 got ~0.4 nielsen rating points so about ~ 250K people who watched it via TV live on an AVERAGE PL game. Like an everyday PL game. Yeah.
Some of the big games got as much as 0.78 (~390K)
the PL Finals for that got 1.3 nielsen rating points average over the finals, with a peak at 2.44. (~650K average, 1.2 mil)
Also 100K+ people showed up for that finals live, iirc.
also remember these are TV ratings, not "inflated in however many way stream statistics" all the leagues like to pull off in SC2.
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On April 06 2012 01:38 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least. PL back in 2005 got ~0.4 nielsen rating points so about ~ 250K people who watched it via TV live on an AVERAGE PL game. Like an everyday PL game. Yeah. Some of the big games got as much as 0.78 (~390K) the PL Finals for that got 1.3 nielsen rating points average over the finals, with a peak at 2.44. (~650K average, 1.2 mil) Also 100K+ people showed up for that finals live, iirc. also remember these are TV ratings, not "inflated in however many way stream statistics" all the leagues like to pull off in SC2.
But how much do they get now? Would be intresting to compare them with SC2 foreign numbers.
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5003 Posts
On April 06 2012 01:40 huehuehuehue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 01:38 Milkis wrote:Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least. PL back in 2005 got ~0.4 nielsen rating points so about ~ 250K people who watched it via TV live on an AVERAGE PL game. Like an everyday PL game. Yeah. Some of the big games got as much as 0.78 (~390K) the PL Finals for that got 1.3 nielsen rating points average over the finals, with a peak at 2.44. (~650K average, 1.2 mil) Also 100K+ people showed up for that finals live, iirc. also remember these are TV ratings, not "inflated in however many way stream statistics" all the leagues like to pull off in SC2. But how much do they get now? Would be intresting to compare them with SC2 foreign numbers.
No one really knows.
In terms of TV ratings PL gets like 1/4th of what they had in 2005/6 iirc. But most people attribute that a lot to format change (since they started doing it daily) and the fact that most people watch it online now. I haven't seen any good stats that cover online viewing.
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On April 06 2012 01:13 Pelopidas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 15:45 CakeSauc3 wrote:On April 05 2012 15:07 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 05:25 Pelopidas wrote:On April 03 2012 05:59 1Eris1 wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 Megaliskuu wrote:On April 03 2012 04:33 Apex wrote:On April 03 2012 03:59 Skwid1g wrote:On April 03 2012 03:55 Taekwon wrote:On April 03 2012 03:40 duncan.mc wrote:
[quote]
You're using this argument as a BW fan? Uh, huh. Except Brood War just so happens to already be the rave. Use your head. Except s c2 does have a huge fanbase outside of Korea.They're trying to garner more attention inside Korea as well as getting the foreign fans to watch like GOM has. With that being said, they shouldn't be together in any way. Same teams for both games would be nice, but neither team should influence one another. Having sc2 being mixed with BW doesn't make sense imo, I enjoy watching sc2 but mixing them is an AWFUL idea. I'm hoping it's just a separate team league for SC2, but I guess we'll see. Meh, it seems to be more high-profile but not necessarily huge fanbase. Someone earlier said it best: zealous but not large. So many people here are so blind, sc2 has a huuuuuge fanbase outside of korea man, just look at MLGs and streams and stuff. I don't care for the game and wouldn't even be sad if the entire sc2 scene died overnight, but to say it isn't really popular is just delusional. Popular/huge are subjective terms. MLGs best numbers were 250k I believe and GSL seems to average a few hundred thousand on its code S vods. (this isn't all of the sc2 fans either, but I imagine it makes up the core percentage that can be classified as solid fans) Now hundreds of thousands is certainly a lot of people, much more than most of us can picture, but it pales (and I mean pales) in comparison to BW at its height and it is still considerably less than the Korea fan base to this day. 250k accross all games, including LoL and COD. Probably less that 40% of that is SC2 On April 05 2012 03:18 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 03:01 Azriel wrote:
This is going to make Blizzard/Kespa look like ass when SC2 dies in a year or so. I have never understood why pro BW anti SC2 comments like this dont even receive a warning, if I said this about BW, I would have been banned. And you are incorrect, SC2 has a massive and dedicated fanbase in the foreign scene, and it only will be growing. Once North America catches on, and starts offering professional gamers real money like a real job, you will see it become a legitimate path to follow out here, and any and all talent in NA will bloom more then it has. And honestly, once The Big 3 (JD, Flash, Bisu) switch over to Sc2, their massive fanbase will follow them into Sc2, there might be some that dont, but if you dont think that the vast majority of people wouldnt watch Jeadong play even fucking League of Legends, you are deluding yourself x) If you actually believe this you are deluding yourself. SC2 is not destined to become mainstrean in North America. The fanbase is shrinking not growing. Nothing will make SC2 replicate the success of BW in Korea. ...I have followed every MLG since the beginning, there is thousands upon thousands more viewers then there used to be, what in the hell are you talking about dude? When I started playing, there was roughly 500K players on battlenet at any given time, now when I go on, it is EXTREMELY rare, and I mean "holy shit this never happens" rare that I see it dip below 800K people, usually when i play it is 1 million or 1 million plus people online, and you are actually going to claim with a factual tone that the fanbase is shrinking? .....lawl? How do you figure? GOMtv reported that the GSL had over 50 million foreign viewers early last year, and last they reported, those numbers were doubling by the season. The number one country that tuned in to their site was the United States, though obviously many other countries can be found on that list. Also notable was the 12 million viewers from China. + Show Spoiler +MLG, however, only reported about 250k viewers in December of last year, but with a 225% growth in viewers from 2010. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what the definition of "viewer" is, however. 50 million in the GSL vs. 250k in MLG seems like a huge difference, and I would have expected those to be closer. Not sure if they're countinig in the same way, or if they are, then GSL is WAY better known. They got that number by adding the number of views of all the VODs and live broadcasts together. Its a garbage figure because it doesn't even attempt to determine unique viewers, it only shows total views, and multiplies the real number of viewers by several hundred. Show nested quote +
Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least.
As someone before me said, the fanbase for sc2 isn't likely to get smaller until after both expansions have been released and have had a few years to cool off. Kind of like how bw is now. Once the game is old, people will lose interest.As of right now, all signs point to sc2's growth, not demise.
But Sc2 is shrinking, everyone I know has stopped playing, and many threads on TL will show other people's experiences are similar. Stream views are eclipsed by LoL, which easily surpassed SC2 within a matter of months. The 1 million players on battle.net includes both WoW and SC2. SC2 is only a fraction of that number considering the popularity of WoW.
I stopped playing SC2 for more than a year now because I don't have time to practice or ladder combining with ladder an anxiety and stess of losing. Yet I still watch most of tournament of I have time. Number of players can tell you to a certain extent but it's not a whole picture. Factoring Barcraft (you should check out the Montreal Barcract video to see how big it is) make it harder to use solely the number of stream viewers to gauge the real number. Also, with a growing of Barcraft it has potential to attract a new viewer that not neccessary playing the game.
For Battle.net population, I doubt that 1 million players online is including WoW because considering WoW has like 10 million subscribers, I doubt only 10% of pop. would be online. I would say it is a no. of Sc2 player but combine all region together.
For LoL no., it's normal that it is higher than SC2 since the game is more accessible (free to play), easier and the game client also links the tournament streams to their players. But I think SC2 viewers are more incline to pay or invest in watching the game more, as demonstrated by MLG Winter Arena PPV experiment (very expensive PPV but still succeed and net them 11 million $ from investors).
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On April 06 2012 01:29 fabiano wrote:
If only SC2 were half as good as BW...
No matter how OGN handle it's leagues, SC2 will continue to be SC2 with all its problems and people will continue to dislike it.
If Bisu ever switches, that won't make people like SC2 more, unless he somehow manages to make SC2 looks less dull and less of a "try-hard to be BW, but without what made it perfect" game.
But whatever, we can argue day in night out and it won't change jackshit.
Facts are facts, rumours are rumours and all we can do is to wait.
Unless bisu is hired to advice over the development of future sc2 expansion that hopeful thinking of bisu making sc2 less lot dull isn't happening.
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On April 06 2012 01:13 Pelopidas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 15:45 CakeSauc3 wrote:On April 05 2012 15:07 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 05:25 Pelopidas wrote:On April 03 2012 05:59 1Eris1 wrote:On April 03 2012 05:02 Megaliskuu wrote:On April 03 2012 04:33 Apex wrote:On April 03 2012 03:59 Skwid1g wrote:On April 03 2012 03:55 Taekwon wrote:On April 03 2012 03:40 duncan.mc wrote:
[quote]
You're using this argument as a BW fan? Uh, huh. Except Brood War just so happens to already be the rave. Use your head. Except s c2 does have a huge fanbase outside of Korea.They're trying to garner more attention inside Korea as well as getting the foreign fans to watch like GOM has. With that being said, they shouldn't be together in any way. Same teams for both games would be nice, but neither team should influence one another. Having sc2 being mixed with BW doesn't make sense imo, I enjoy watching sc2 but mixing them is an AWFUL idea. I'm hoping it's just a separate team league for SC2, but I guess we'll see. Meh, it seems to be more high-profile but not necessarily huge fanbase. Someone earlier said it best: zealous but not large. So many people here are so blind, sc2 has a huuuuuge fanbase outside of korea man, just look at MLGs and streams and stuff. I don't care for the game and wouldn't even be sad if the entire sc2 scene died overnight, but to say it isn't really popular is just delusional. Popular/huge are subjective terms. MLGs best numbers were 250k I believe and GSL seems to average a few hundred thousand on its code S vods. (this isn't all of the sc2 fans either, but I imagine it makes up the core percentage that can be classified as solid fans) Now hundreds of thousands is certainly a lot of people, much more than most of us can picture, but it pales (and I mean pales) in comparison to BW at its height and it is still considerably less than the Korea fan base to this day. 250k accross all games, including LoL and COD. Probably less that 40% of that is SC2 On April 05 2012 03:18 JohnnyPG wrote:On April 05 2012 03:01 Azriel wrote:
This is going to make Blizzard/Kespa look like ass when SC2 dies in a year or so. I have never understood why pro BW anti SC2 comments like this dont even receive a warning, if I said this about BW, I would have been banned. And you are incorrect, SC2 has a massive and dedicated fanbase in the foreign scene, and it only will be growing. Once North America catches on, and starts offering professional gamers real money like a real job, you will see it become a legitimate path to follow out here, and any and all talent in NA will bloom more then it has. And honestly, once The Big 3 (JD, Flash, Bisu) switch over to Sc2, their massive fanbase will follow them into Sc2, there might be some that dont, but if you dont think that the vast majority of people wouldnt watch Jeadong play even fucking League of Legends, you are deluding yourself x) If you actually believe this you are deluding yourself. SC2 is not destined to become mainstrean in North America. The fanbase is shrinking not growing. Nothing will make SC2 replicate the success of BW in Korea. ...I have followed every MLG since the beginning, there is thousands upon thousands more viewers then there used to be, what in the hell are you talking about dude? When I started playing, there was roughly 500K players on battlenet at any given time, now when I go on, it is EXTREMELY rare, and I mean "holy shit this never happens" rare that I see it dip below 800K people, usually when i play it is 1 million or 1 million plus people online, and you are actually going to claim with a factual tone that the fanbase is shrinking? .....lawl? How do you figure? GOMtv reported that the GSL had over 50 million foreign viewers early last year, and last they reported, those numbers were doubling by the season. The number one country that tuned in to their site was the United States, though obviously many other countries can be found on that list. Also notable was the 12 million viewers from China. + Show Spoiler +MLG, however, only reported about 250k viewers in December of last year, but with a 225% growth in viewers from 2010. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what the definition of "viewer" is, however. 50 million in the GSL vs. 250k in MLG seems like a huge difference, and I would have expected those to be closer. Not sure if they're countinig in the same way, or if they are, then GSL is WAY better known. They got that number by adding the number of views of all the VODs and live broadcasts together. Its a garbage figure because it doesn't even attempt to determine unique viewers, it only shows total views, and multiplies the real number of viewers by several hundred. Show nested quote +
Does anyone have stats on how many people were solid fans/viewers of bw back in its prime? Though as I just looked up online, South Korea itself only has a population of about 50 millioin. Unless every single person in South Korea watched bw, I doubt you can claim that sc2 is not more popular worldwide than bw was in korea back in the day. And considering that sc2 is still growing (not slowly, either), you can DEFINITELY not say that the fanbase is shrinking, and it wouldn't be wise to assume that the fanbase is going to shrink anytime in the next few years, at least.
As someone before me said, the fanbase for sc2 isn't likely to get smaller until after both expansions have been released and have had a few years to cool off. Kind of like how bw is now. Once the game is old, people will lose interest.As of right now, all signs point to sc2's growth, not demise.
But Sc2 is shrinking, everyone I know has stopped playing, and many threads on TL will show other people's experiences are similar. Stream views are eclipsed by LoL, which easily surpassed SC2 within a matter of months. The 1 million players on battle.net includes both WoW and SC2. SC2 is only a fraction of that number considering the popularity of WoW. Yeah unless they sex it up with HOTS expansion (lets face it, sex sells) and Kerrigan makes the right moves, its hard to see it changing much. Sure, a lot of people will check out the new single player content but the online experience has little change so naive to expect it to grow.
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For numbers.. I just logged into Europe B.net of BW:
it says:
15k users playing 3k games of BW atm
and
80k users playing 25k game on B.net in total
Same numbers in any other b.net region
Is this BW and WC3 and D2 together or what?
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Yes and D1 & WC2:Battlenet Edition. Cant forget those 
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On April 03 2012 04:00 Tru_m4n wrote:
What the heck? Why not just start a SC2 league right away, because that's what it's gonna end up like anyway (sooner or later) if they implement these changes.
As much as I would like to see what the current BW pros could do with SC2, I don't want BW to die, and I like BW much more than SC2. Merging the two games into one league... I'm speechless. I can't see anything good come out of this. If BW is dying, then this is the nail in the coffin. If they want BW to live, for the love of god don't involve SC2 in Proleague! But I guess if these changes have been suggested, then it's already decided. Might as well just end the suffering for us BW fans right away instead of prolonging it.
Who cares?
The current struggles for Kespa and the broadcasters is sponsorship and viewership - foreign people watching on a stream at 3AM in the morning doesn't change the fact that MBC was and OGN is struggling in viewer numbers and it's incredibly difficult to get companies to sponsor teams/leagues nowadays.
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On April 06 2012 01:17 Antoine wrote:
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Yeah in the Ju Hoon interview that was posted today, a lot of the stuff he said when talking about sc2 was its global presence
Posted where? On fomos?
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On April 06 2012 01:17 Antoine wrote:
Yeah in the Ju Hoon interview that was posted today, a lot of the stuff he said when talking about sc2 was its global presence
Which interview was this? Is this on DES or fomos?
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EPT
