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Why are reavers stupid?

Forum Index > BW General
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1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
February 15 2012 02:11 GMT
#1
I noticed that the AI for both reavers and scarabs are terrible.
Reavers seem to move to attack even when the target is in range.
Scarabs dud, hover around nothing, follow without exploding on a unit.
The only pro who seems to have good reaver control is stork.

Is there any particular reason reavers are so stupid?
☺
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10354 Posts
February 15 2012 02:13 GMT
#2
They were originally too good with their ai. think of it, then everyone would go for reavers and kill like a billion scvs. so blizzard nerfed the ai of it so it would become "retarded" and have "dud" scarabs.

fun fact: did you know boxer loved reavers that he was protoss back in the day? then blizzard nerfed the reaver so boxer became the famous terran dropship maniac today.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
[V]
Profile Joined November 2011
United States905 Posts
February 15 2012 02:17 GMT
#3
I'm sorry but I thought anyone from the BW sections knew this, especially someone who I saw quite often, like you sir, Release. Anyway, what could BW have been if boxer remained protoss...
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
February 15 2012 02:19 GMT
#4
Protoss would be imbalanced with perfect Reaver shots. Oh, how I dream...

Another way to think of it is a miss chance, but with skill involved. Good worker conga lines can completely avoid any damage if the defender pulls them away at the right time and angle. And the attacker can increase the chance of maximum damage by picking good targets that are more likely not gonna get away and create the dud. This, to me, is far better than if they either a) toned down the damage or b) gave it a random miss chance. And choice c) 100% hit rate, is totally out of the question for the sake of worker's rights. You don't want an SCV Union do you?
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
February 15 2012 02:23 GMT
#5
Even though its actually the coolest nerf to a unit I've ever seen.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
iLoveKT
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Philippines3615 Posts
February 15 2012 02:26 GMT
#6
Im gonna have nightmares thinking about what if ribo/scarabs had perfect AI.
Woo Jung Ho
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
February 15 2012 02:26 GMT
#7
The "following without exploding on a unit" symptom is mostly caused by a congo line of fleeing units. For example, when you have an SCV train running away from a scarab and the reaver targeted one of the SCVs in the middle, it will get stuck on the last SCV in the line and then explode without doing anything. This sucks on the one hand but is reasonable: you don't want your scarab to explode on the first unit/building it encounters but rather hit the unit/building it was destined to. That's just how it was designed and that's hard to change imo. Aside from that, it makes for the most exciting moments in a match.

And the "move even when in range" thing is hardly relevant imo.
Always smile~
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
February 15 2012 02:27 GMT
#8
On February 15 2012 11:17 .V. wrote:
I'm sorry but I thought anyone from the BW sections knew this, especially someone who I saw quite often, like you sir, Release. Anyway, what could BW have been if boxer remained protoss...

i actually just tried to use reavers, and was terribly bad at it. Much harder than other dropship/shuttle play.
☺
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 02:28:11
February 15 2012 02:27 GMT
#9
They are stupid but it's mostly skill based stupid. It's kinda like the dragoon. It makes it a lot more fun to watch because of potential of high damage.
Jaedong :3
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
February 15 2012 02:28 GMT
#10
On February 15 2012 11:13 FlaShFTW wrote:
They were originally too good with their ai. think of it, then everyone would go for reavers and kill like a billion scvs. so blizzard nerfed the ai of it so it would become "retarded" and have "dud" scarabs.

fun fact: did you know boxer loved reavers that he was protoss back in the day? then blizzard nerfed the reaver so boxer became the famous terran dropship maniac today.

Fun fact: Did you know that people used to dodge BoxeR because BW was predominantly American/South American, and they thought he was a hacker, and from Japan, not Korea. He used to sit in public games for hours sometimes and wait for people.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
February 15 2012 02:31 GMT
#11
On February 15 2012 11:28 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 11:13 FlaShFTW wrote:
They were originally too good with their ai. think of it, then everyone would go for reavers and kill like a billion scvs. so blizzard nerfed the ai of it so it would become "retarded" and have "dud" scarabs.

fun fact: did you know boxer loved reavers that he was protoss back in the day? then blizzard nerfed the reaver so boxer became the famous terran dropship maniac today.

Fun fact: Did you know that people used to dodge BoxeR because BW was predominantly American/South American, and they thought he was a hacker, and from Japan, not Korea. He used to sit in public games for hours sometimes and wait for people.

I didn't know that, that's actually far more interesting!
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
February 15 2012 02:31 GMT
#12
When I see the latest Stork vs Flash, I don't find them that retarded.
ॐ
Wohmfg
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1292 Posts
February 15 2012 02:32 GMT
#13
I thought the only significant nerf to reavers was that they stopped the scarab shot reload time from resetting when it was loaded into a shuttle so that players couldn't fire off scarabs at a ridiculously imba rate. I didn't know they actually made the AI dumber?
BW4Life!
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8167 Posts
February 15 2012 02:32 GMT
#14
also kal has better shuttle/reaver micro than stork
Free Palestine
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 02:35:13
February 15 2012 02:32 GMT
#15
On February 15 2012 11:31 Hesmyrr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 11:28 Game wrote:
On February 15 2012 11:13 FlaShFTW wrote:
They were originally too good with their ai. think of it, then everyone would go for reavers and kill like a billion scvs. so blizzard nerfed the ai of it so it would become "retarded" and have "dud" scarabs.

fun fact: did you know boxer loved reavers that he was protoss back in the day? then blizzard nerfed the reaver so boxer became the famous terran dropship maniac today.

Fun fact: Did you know that people used to dodge BoxeR because BW was predominantly American/South American, and they thought he was a hacker, and from Japan, not Korea. He used to sit in public games for hours sometimes and wait for people.

I didn't know that, that's actually far more interesting!

Fun fact #2: He popularized the wall on Lost Temple, I learned it from sons[x] when I tried to PvT him, had a huge advantage, and couldn't figure out to kill the wall. sons[x] then told me (in toyland) that he learned it from BoxeR, and that BoxeR was a hacker regardless of his genius wall.
Edit: unsure if toyland or -=^un4^=-
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
February 15 2012 02:39 GMT
#16
On February 15 2012 11:32 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 11:31 Hesmyrr wrote:
On February 15 2012 11:28 Game wrote:
On February 15 2012 11:13 FlaShFTW wrote:
They were originally too good with their ai. think of it, then everyone would go for reavers and kill like a billion scvs. so blizzard nerfed the ai of it so it would become "retarded" and have "dud" scarabs.

fun fact: did you know boxer loved reavers that he was protoss back in the day? then blizzard nerfed the reaver so boxer became the famous terran dropship maniac today.

Fun fact: Did you know that people used to dodge BoxeR because BW was predominantly American/South American, and they thought he was a hacker, and from Japan, not Korea. He used to sit in public games for hours sometimes and wait for people.

I didn't know that, that's actually far more interesting!

Fun fact #2: He popularized the wall on Lost Temple, I learned it from sons[x] when I tried to PvT him, had a huge advantage, and couldn't figure out to kill the wall. sons[x] then told me (in toyland) that he learned it from BoxeR, and that BoxeR was a hacker regardless of his genius wall.
Edit: unsure if toyland or -=^un4^=-

You should make your own "progammer gossip" thread game :p
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
February 15 2012 02:45 GMT
#17
*Sunset*

*Game lights the campfire and gathers the children around the soothing source of warmth*

"Listen well, kids. I shall tell you a story of the old days..."



More!
Always smile~
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
February 15 2012 02:46 GMT
#18
On February 15 2012 11:31 endy wrote:
When I see the latest Stork vs Flash, I don't find them that retarded.

Stork is the only exception out of the entire progaming community.
☺
ShatterZer0
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1843 Posts
February 15 2012 02:50 GMT
#19
And thus, there are no reavers in SC2. Because they would have to either reduce the damage to something utterly pitiful... or dumb down the AI. Which they weren't willing to do, a la ball armies.
A time to live.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
February 15 2012 02:50 GMT
#20
On February 15 2012 11:26 Spekulatius wrote:
The "following without exploding on a unit" symptom is mostly caused by a congo line of fleeing units. For example, when you have an SCV train running away from a scarab and the reaver targeted one of the SCVs in the middle, it will get stuck on the last SCV in the line and then explode without doing anything. This sucks on the one hand but is reasonable: you don't want your scarab to explode on the first unit/building it encounters but rather hit the unit/building it was destined to. That's just how it was designed and that's hard to change imo. Aside from that, it makes for the most exciting moments in a match.

And the "move even when in range" thing is hardly relevant imo.


Sometimes though scarabs will completely miss their target and fly into open space and blow up. Its pretty funny.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
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