EPTPower Rank Discussion Thread - Page 29
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On February 15 2012 23:03 VGhost wrote: The difference in that game was that free didn't get any sort of "ball" till late-game. True, he played merry hell with JD's timing just with his half a control of zeals wandering around the middle of the map all game, but the situation was very different in a couple important ways: - the map. Athena's a weird map; Ground Zero's standard. - the metagame. Look at JD's build that game and wince. (free's build is more similar to modern PvZ, but equally "poorly" executed compared to today's tighter builds.) - the forces free had in the middle were mainly defensive, not offensive. Aside from denying the inner 12 o'clock, free basically didn't attack between his early game zeal pressure and his end of game deathball. I'm not really trying to say it's completely new - obviously the ideas of critical mass and armies being more effective when together are not new. And maybe it was just BeSt finally finding something that works. But it's a huge contrast to Bisu's artistic multi-task flailing, say, though really nobody plays like Bisu so I guess that's not really fair. Yeah it looks like BeSt adapted Bisu's playstyle to hiw own strength, focusing more on macro and less on harass, like exactly what I would expect. Middle-game deathball and two-base all in are nothing new too (go back watch those Movie's all-in from 2009-10, and those bad games by Stork last season). I mean as far as I remember "the Protoss deathball" has always been an expression on tl. For me all that's happening is that other protosses have caught up a bit with Bisu and understood his last year build better, small improvement were made, personnal adaptation... Well yeah you get the idea. Which does not mean Milkis ain't right. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19297 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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KenNage
Chile885 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On February 16 2012 04:10 KenNage wrote: i think the maps are fine, i dont like outlier, and chain reaction is meh, but the other are fine Individually they are fine, but the mix is awful. Must I repeat myself? | ||
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oldgregg
New Zealand1176 Posts
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moopie
12605 Posts
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TrainSamurai
339 Posts
On February 15 2012 23:03 VGhost wrote: The difference in that game was that free didn't get any sort of "ball" till late-game. True, he played merry hell with JD's timing just with his half a control of zeals wandering around the middle of the map all game, but the situation was very different in a couple important ways: - the map. Athena's a weird map; Ground Zero's standard. - the metagame. Look at JD's build that game and wince. (free's build is more similar to modern PvZ, but equally "poorly" executed compared to today's tighter builds.) - the forces free had in the middle were mainly defensive, not offensive. Aside from denying the inner 12 o'clock, free basically didn't attack between his early game zeal pressure and his end of game deathball. I'm not really trying to say it's completely new - obviously the ideas of critical mass and armies being more effective when together are not new. And maybe it was just BeSt finally finding something that works. But it's a huge contrast to Bisu's artistic multi-task flailing, say, though really nobody plays like Bisu so I guess that's not really fair. I think you're overthinking it. BeSt had to do damage or fall behind, there was no timing. If Jaedong didn't screw up his egg block the attack on his third would have looked exactly like the attack on his natural. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
So far, this is what I've got as my top 4 for the next ranking: 1. Flash. Anyone who thinks this is wrong is an idiot. 2. Fantasy. Poor Fanta. If Flash weren't around, maybe Fanta would finally get his moment in the sun. It's amazing how a guy who's accomplished as much as Fantasy has can still be living in the shadows, never having achieved #1 on the PR, never being regarded as the best player even for his own race. 3. Stork. Tied for #3 overall in the PL rankings, Stork's only 2 losses in his 8 most recent games come from Fantasy and Flash. He's probably the strongest PvTer on the planet and his PvP and PvZ are among the best as well. 4. Leta. This is a big jump up, but then again, Leta has been the dark horse pick for this PL season. His TvT is looking absolutely stellar. He's responsible for one of Fantasy's 2 losses and his only loss at the hands of Baby was in a spectacular game. His TvZ has recent kills over both Soulkey and Jaedong, admittedly both games played on Jade, and statistically is actually his strongest match-up right now, with a record of 16-4 over the past year, 9-1 in his past 10 and the 4th highest overall vZ ELO (3rd highest among Terran, behind only Flash and Light). Still, I'm hesitant to push Shin Sang Moon over Stork given doubts about the state of his TvP. ------- Soulkey is obviously dropping a little, but exactly how much is a tough question. His loss against Flash only showed that he's human and his loss against Leta I think is more of a credit to Leta's ability. Jaedong deserves some attention for his recent streak (although 3 of those games were present on last PR and one of them was just god awful). JD has now pushed his way Nowheresville to tied for 6th in the PL standings. But I have some doubts over the level of JD's ZvT right now (I don't think it's as good as Soulkey's) and his ZvP is a bit inconsistent. His ZvZ, however, as returned to where it belongs: best in the world. Stats and Bisu both are looking at big drops unless they pull their acts together. Neither has won since the last ranking, Bisu deciding to follow up his 3 game win streak with a 3 game loss streak and Stats now sitting at 2-4 in his last 6. With Wooki stepping up to the plate (ironically being one of Bisu's recent losses) and Crazy-Hydra coming out of nowhere to achieve a 6-2 record so far this season (2-0 since the last ranking), KT has fared okay. SKT is in a bit more trouble since Best has been slowly falling in the rankings as well. Maybe Sacsri can take over? | ||
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Mirabel_
United States1768 Posts
2. Fantasy - When he wins, he's dominant. When he loses, he's still scary. And he's proven himself strong in all three matchups. We really need to get him and Flash on the same stage. 3. Leta - Since the start of the season, There have been 5 Terrans that have been consistently impressive, and four of them have been consistently returning good results. Distinguish the two unmentioned ones with recent wins over several top contenders and you're left with a wraithcaptain who is so damned good at two matchups I can forgive him for being untested in another. 4. Stork - On paper, he eats all three races for breakfast. But the only thing he's proved to be nightmarishly good at is PvP. I'm just not feeling his domination in the other matchups yet, since he's taken more of a sweeper role given his most convincing wins (and convincing losses), like Fantasy did two seasons ago. He's STILL the best damn Protoss in the world, just not what he used to be. 5. Soulkey - His only losses have been to Leta and Flash, who I consider to be his betters for the time being. Though his loss to Leta was kind of humiliating. I couldn't justify Bisu making it into the last power rank any more than I could justify Jaedong being demoted to CNBC for a few consecutive losses. I stand by this statement for the next power rank as well. | ||
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
including a win against Flash | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
Dear... despite being the guy to take down Flash, all the rest of his wins are against weak TvPers (Sea, Light). I don't want to PR a sniper unless he's just so damn good he can't not be ranked and Dear hasn't proven himself that good. | ||
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Hero.SP
Chile711 Posts
CH may have a spot, but some of his wins were easy: Hydrabusted Stork, BO win vs hyvaa (who didn't even defended his sunk, everyone was like "wtf is hyvaa NOT doing"). However, CH helps KT more than Dear helps STX. Not saying CH>Dear, just giving a point. I still cannot see Flash losing 1st spot. True, he lost a game, but he is still 14-1, 93% winrate so far, best player overall. Not great weakness (besides Dear predcting what Flash could do). But still, bonjwa is bonjwa. Everyone will put him favourite vs anyone right now. Also I can't see Fantasy losing 2nd. Maybe we should wait until Khan vs SKT series, but is really hard him to be setted under 3rd if he would start to suck (and I really doubt it). My bets for nice spots? For players who weren't in the last PR, Crazy Hydra, JD. Who should rise? Stork, Leta Who should down? Bisu, Stats (Stork and Stats could change their spots and they would be perfectly fine). Dear should get at least a shoutout (everyone can figure why). Same goes for Sacsri, who played a really entertaining game (plague + swarm everywhere). That guy is like how GGPlay used his defilers in lategame. Amazing game vs Bogus. | ||
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Sethronu
United Kingdom450 Posts
There isn't a whole lot of players who are so impressive as to be clear picks for the bottom ranks of PR again, imo, but CH and soO are two players who may be worth putting in there; I imagine CH more so than soO. JD should also be back as well. Dear I'm not sure about, sure he beat Flash but it's not like it was some sort of an incredible amazing game (nice b/o and nice tricking that scan though), and his other games are hardly impressive. No way Sacsri should be on PR either, by that logic Piano and/or Roro should get a PR spot as well, which would be silly. :p | ||
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dobrzeee
Poland71 Posts
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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pvzvt
Israel2097 Posts
On March 01 2012 19:54 writer22816 wrote: Is Jaedong a candidate for the power rank again? To be honest, I don't quite know. On one hand he's racked up a decent win streak and played some really sick ZvZ. On the other hand, his wins are all against scrubs and he played like a SKT zerg vs Leta. well in all fairness leta did pull some crazy build that disguised his intentions it was genius and not to mention unstoppable if u'r behind and dont know its coming and sarcarsi is a good zerg for an skt one | ||
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
On March 01 2012 19:37 dobrzeee wrote: You said that 1 matchup sniper can get place in PR by consistently winning his games in that MU and beating Flash. I think Dear meet these conditions so I wont be suprised if he get some low position in new power rank. Of course if he wont start to suck from now. The question is: Are there many players that deserve place in PR more? That's the sad thing, only Flash, Fantasy, Leta and Soulkey are the players that are consistently solid and reliable. Everyone else is just.......ehhhh | ||
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Nesto
Switzerland1318 Posts
On March 01 2012 19:54 writer22816 wrote: Is Jaedong a candidate for the power rank again? To be honest, I don't quite know. On one hand he's racked up a decent win streak and played some really sick ZvZ. On the other hand, his wins are all against scrubs and he played like a SKT zerg vs Leta. well, he was cnbc last month and went 4-1 this month - going for a 5 win streak, winning 2 BO loss ZvZ's and a crazy comeback game against Mini, so he certainly is on Power Rank, the question is how high is he getting placed... | ||
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