EPTPower Rank Discussion Thread - Page 31
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Release
United States4397 Posts
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Kiett
United States7639 Posts
Anyway, if you actually watch his games from this month, none of them used 2-port wraith, so that's a moot point. Leta dominated Fantasy with sick vulture play (the irony), destroyed Jaedong with an ingenious bio switch, and stomped SK into the ground with a brilliantly executed bio-mech attack. Can't say much for his TvP, but he hasn't had a lot of chances to show it off. Hey, at least he beat Kal, who isn't exactly a pushover this season. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
I don't agree with holding Leta back due to the gimmicky nature of his strategies. A player who can successfully pull off gimmicks on a routine basis deserves as much credit as a player who achieves a comparable win rate through boring standard play. It is not as though Leta is riding on the wave of a metagame advantage. The reality is that with Flash, Light and even Fantasy attracting so much attention with their TvZ, Leta has slid along as a dark horse powerhouse. Since late 2010 he's gone 5-2 against Soulkey, 2-1 against Zero and 2-0 against Jaedong. Granted, nobody who understands this game would have picked him as the favorite over Zero or JD in a BoX during the middle of last year so those stats can be a little bit misleading when taken at face value, but the point is that he's solid as a rock in TvZ and in TvT his current W/L ratio does not do him justice. If you take the time to look at his games, he's very solid in TvT as well. The reason why I don't want to see Leta catapulting to #2 on the ranking is that I don't think a few high profile wins are comparable to the scariness of Fantasy and I don't think Leta is as well-rounded as Stork. Fantasy and Stork can be sent out in any match-up against almost any opponent and walk away with almost certain victory. They have that kind of power. | ||
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Mirabel_
United States1768 Posts
Agreed with Kiett regarding Leta's builds. I've been looking past the gimmicks since I first heard of Leta, and he has continuously impressed me. Who knew T could be fun to watch in this post-oov macro age? I would however rank Leta above Stork, because while both of them are relatively untested in their toughest matchup and Stork has had a bigger workload, the only thing I can really give Stork from his performance this year is his extreme dominance in PvP. Yes his only losses in PvT have been hard-fought losses against motherfucking Fantasy and Flash, but if he were to actually beat either of them (or Bogus) then I would be able to say he was comparable to Leta-on-a-hot-streak in terms of the fear factor. I can't deny that there's something weird and shaky about Stork's play that Stats didn't seem to have in the first two rounds. Not that anyone challenges Stork as the scariest P in Proleague. Especially not Bisu. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On March 02 2012 18:42 Mirabel_ wrote: I would expect Fantasy to hold the #2 spot down quite stylishly for the month. While Leta has indeed been sweeping the floor, the terrorist has been given more opportunities to prove himself over the season and capitalized on every one. He doesn't fall easy and I don't think he ever will. Agreed with Kiett regarding Leta's builds. I've been looking past the gimmicks since I first heard of Leta, and he has continuously impressed me. Who knew T could be fun to watch in this post-oov macro age? I would however rank Leta above Stork, because while both of them are relatively untested in their toughest matchup and Stork has had a bigger workload, the only thing I can really give Stork from his performance this year is his extreme dominance in PvP. Yes his only losses in PvT have been hard-fought losses against motherfucking Fantasy and Flash, but if he were to actually beat either of them (or Bogus) then I would be able to say he was comparable to Leta-on-a-hot-streak in terms of the fear factor. I can't deny that there's something weird and shaky about Stork's play that Stats didn't seem to have in the first two rounds. Not that anyone challenges Stork as the scariest P in Proleague. Especially not Bisu. I totally don't appreciate that last line T_T Anyway, i actually do feel that Stork has been more remarkable than Leta this season. I know the numbers don't support that argument too well (Leta plays like a beast this season), but i just feel more.. awesomeness oozing out of Stork.. Just a feeling, but that's usually what i use to gauge a player's strength anw. Would i want my favourite player to face him? Stork feels like a tremendous force this season, whereas Leta pretty much fly under the radar for the most part, at least my radar. | ||
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Hero.SP
Chile711 Posts
1 Flash 2 Fantasy 3 Stork/SK 4 Stork/Leta/SK 5 Leta/SK I mean, Stork can be placed 3rd or 4th (not less), SK would be 3rd, 4th or 5th. I still need to see more about Leta, but he hardly deserves less than 5th. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 CH, JD, Stats, Hydra, Turn, Reality, Baby, Soo, Best. My two cents so far. | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + -After JDs win over Soulkey, they are tied at 11:6 for best zerg Soulkeys play just feels better (hard for me to say) -next one after ist c-h, with 7:2 he has a nice ratio, but only 9 games played.(hes on a 6game winstreak now, so we will have to see) -calm is getting a view wins of good ZvP, we have no idea about his ZvT atm. - Hydra and Effort are both just barely over 50% winrate with Effort looking a bit shaky to me and Hydras only 2 non ZvZ wins are over Brave and Sea (lol). seems like not the best season for zerg. Conclusion: The next view games will decide wether Soulkey or JD will earn the top zerg spot, (both should have a garanteed spot in the next PR imo) and wether CrazyH can keep his groove going. If he can get some important wins for KT in the next matches, he should be Cnbc at least. | ||
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shaftofpleasure
Korea (North)1375 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
But, that could change by the end of the round. I think Calm is in the running for a low rank. I know he also looks like a bit of a one match wonder right now, but if you take a look at his list of Protoss kills it's pretty significant. About as good as you'll get without taking either Bisu and/or Stork. ZvZ and ZvT he's also faced difficult opponents. Right now Calm is the player who is carrying the weight on the STX roster. | ||
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
On March 05 2012 00:33 Mortality wrote: If I were to pick right now, I think I'd put JD as #6. I'm not ready to put JD above SK because I think SK looks a lot more well-rounded at the moment. JD is starting to rely on his ZvZ to carry him. Both Jaedong and Soulkey played an equal amount of ZvZ, with Jaedong sitting at 5-1 and Soulkey at 4-2. I too think that Soulkey should stay above Jaedong, but saying that Jaedong is relying on ZvZ is kind of a weird statement since Soulkey is pretty much in the same situation. Anyways, right now my ranking would go 1. Flash 2. Fantasy 3. Stork 4. Leta 5. Soulkey 6. Jaedong 7. Crazy Hydra 8. Bisu 9. Dear 10. Best | ||
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Hero.SP
Chile711 Posts
On March 05 2012 07:45 Ozarugold wrote: Anyways, right now my ranking would go 1. Flash 2. Fantasy 3. Stork 4. Leta 5. Soulkey 6. Jaedong 7. Crazy Hydra 8. Bisu 9. Dear 10. Best I would like you to explain these 3 being on PR. Best and Bisu aren-t looking good at all (mostly Bisu) and Dear only merit is beating Flash. I'm sure that can't be enough for PR standars, | ||
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kdgns
United States2427 Posts
On March 05 2012 08:16 Hero.SP wrote: I would like you to explain these 3 being on PR. Best and Bisu aren-t looking good at all (mostly Bisu) and Dear only merit is beating Flash. I'm sure that can't be enough for PR standars, Beating flash is an achievement no one else can boast of this season, plus his only losses this season has been to flash and best, steadily becoming a workhorse PvT sniper for stx, you have to admit hes bringing home wins quite consistently | ||
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
On March 05 2012 08:16 Hero.SP wrote: I would like you to explain these 3 being on PR. Best and Bisu aren-t looking good at all (mostly Bisu) and Dear only merit is beating Flash. I'm sure that can't be enough for PR standars, Bisu - This is a typo, I meant to put Bisu at 10th and Best at 8th. Anyways, it was either Bisu or Stats at 10th and I Bisu just barely edged out Stats because it was really difficult to choose a 10th guy and I just chose the one that everyone seemed to like. Dear - Despite seemingly being a one matchup wonder, he still has the same record has Crazy Hydra and that should at least pull a little weight. Plus the whole beating Flash thing. Best - Although he had a pretty rough January, from the end of January he is 4-2 with one of his losses coming from the hands of Flash. Aside from the top 7, there really are no strong players at the moment. With the lack of games, it's really hard to gauge a player's strength so I take into past performances a little more when figuring out the ranking. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On March 05 2012 09:04 Ozarugold wrote: Bisu - This is a typo, I meant to put Bisu at 10th and Best at 8th. Anyways, it was either Bisu or Stats at 10th and I Bisu just barely edged out Stats because it was really difficult to choose a 10th guy and I just chose the one that everyone seemed to like. Dear - Despite seemingly being a one matchup wonder, he still has the same record has Crazy Hydra and that should at least pull a little weight. Plus the whole beating Flash thing. Best - Although he had a pretty rough January, from the end of January he is 4-2 with one of his losses coming from the hands of Flash. Aside from the top 7, there really are no strong players at the moment. With the lack of games, it's really hard to gauge a player's strength so I take into past performances a little more when figuring out the ranking. With regards to your first post: Soulkey and JD have faced a comparable level of Terrans with on the face only a 1 game difference (SK 3-3, JD 2-3), but if you've watched the games, JD isn't looking as good. In ZvP again there is only a 1 game difference, but SK has faced a harder line-up and frankly looked better against it. So no, I stand by what I said exactly. JD's ZvZ is what's carrying him, not only numerically, but in terms of quality of performance. Regarding your second post and the replies to it: -I think Best is earning a spot back on the ranking. So far he's 4-1 in R3 with his only loss to Flash and although shy, Dear, and Reality aren't much for competition, Best is finally winning games other than just PvZ. And after having watched Best for years, I cannot believe I just said that. -Bisu needs to up his game if he wants back on the ranking. His only win this round to Jangbi was not exactly his best ever performance. -I've talked about Dear before, but I'm going to reiterate that other than beating Flash he has only beaten Terrans with Casy level TvP ability. Power Rank is supposed to scrutinize results to measure their value past a simple "win" or "loss." Their are other players like Calm (who is actually playing tough opponents and has been winning) and even Zero (3-1 on the round... where have you been all season) who are better suited to that 10th spot. | ||
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Sethronu
United Kingdom450 Posts
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Starburst
United States108 Posts
On March 05 2012 09:42 Mortality wrote: With regards to your first post: Soulkey and JD have faced a comparable level of Terrans with on the face only a 1 game difference (SK 3-3, JD 2-3), but if you've watched the games, JD isn't looking as good. In ZvP again there is only a 1 game difference, but SK has faced a harder line-up and frankly looked better against it. So no, I stand by what I said exactly. JD's ZvZ is what's carrying him, not only numerically, but in terms of quality of performance. Regarding your second post and the replies to it: -I think Best is earning a spot back on the ranking. So far he's 4-1 in R3 with his only loss to Flash and although shy, Dear, and Reality aren't much for competition, Best is finally winning games other than just PvZ. And after having watched Best for years, I cannot believe I just said that. -Bisu needs to up his game if he wants back on the ranking. His only win this round to Jangbi was not exactly his best ever performance. -I've talked about Dear before, but I'm going to reiterate that other than beating Flash he has only beaten Terrans with Casy level TvP ability. Power Rank is supposed to scrutinize results to measure their value past a simple "win" or "loss." Their are other players like Calm (who is actually playing tough opponents and has been winning) and even Zero (3-1 on the round... where have you been all season) who are better suited to that 10th spot. This is a very accurate representation of PR this past month imo. You bring up a lot of good points that I empathize with lol. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On March 05 2012 10:41 Sethronu wrote: I'm surprised nobody talks about Soo at all, he's been doing very well recently. That's true, he's knocked off a few big names and his losses are mostly to big names. But he pretty much looks like a one map wonder right now. I'd be more impressed if he beat Light on say, Sniper Ridge, rather than a Terran graveyard. Something that posters need to remember when looking at player stats is that there's a very real difference between a top player who plays on multiple maps against multiple races vs a dedicated sniper playing on a map like Chain Reaction where you only need to prepare 2 match-ups (vP and vZ) unless you're facing Team 8 which frequently sends Baby on that map. I find it telling that Soo wasn't having success until he took the dedicated sniper role. That's not something that should be entirely held against him, but I'm going to favor someone with a less impressive record on the round but greater diversity. | ||
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
On March 05 2012 09:42 Mortality wrote: With regards to your first post: Soulkey and JD have faced a comparable level of Terrans with on the face only a 1 game difference (SK 3-3, JD 2-3), but if you've watched the games, JD isn't looking as good. In ZvP again there is only a 1 game difference, but SK has faced a harder line-up and frankly looked better against it. So no, I stand by what I said exactly. JD's ZvZ is what's carrying him, not only numerically, but in terms of quality of performance. Regarding your second post and the replies to it: -I think Best is earning a spot back on the ranking. So far he's 4-1 in R3 with his only loss to Flash and although shy, Dear, and Reality aren't much for competition, Best is finally winning games other than just PvZ. And after having watched Best for years, I cannot believe I just said that. -Bisu needs to up his game if he wants back on the ranking. His only win this round to Jangbi was not exactly his best ever performance. -I've talked about Dear before, but I'm going to reiterate that other than beating Flash he has only beaten Terrans with Casy level TvP ability. Power Rank is supposed to scrutinize results to measure their value past a simple "win" or "loss." Their are other players like Calm (who is actually playing tough opponents and has been winning) and even Zero (3-1 on the round... where have you been all season) who are better suited to that 10th spot. True true, you bring up good points. I kind of glazed over Zero since he gets overshadowed by Soulkey but I think he deserves a spot on the ranking. Regarding Dear, I know that the opponents that he beats are not that great at TvP (save for Flash) but results are results. However, if he doesn't make the ranking it's understandable. As you said, the quality of opponents are not that great. As for Jaedong vs Soulkey, looking purely on results, they both had fairly comparable losses. Both lost against Leta on Jade, both lost against Flash and against Best. For Jaedong that leaves a loss Effort, Canata, and Snow. For Soulkey, that is Firebathero, Hydra and Jaedong. In terms of opposition, I think their losses came from fairly equal opponents. But then once you look at the quality of games, then what you say holds true. However I just find it odd, not wrong, that you would say that Jaedong is relying on ZvZ since he's always relied on ZvZ to carry him. I guess what I'm trying to say that Jaedong is no longer the player he once was and your statement kind of rubbed me the wrong way. We cool though~  | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
I wouldn't tear my hair out if Dear got ranked in the 10th spot, but at the end of the day there surely must be better choices. JD has always relied on ZvZ to carry him? Up until recently he's been a monster at all three match-ups. At times ZvP was his best and at times ZvT his best. Overall he's probably the most well-rounded S-class Zerg in history. | ||
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gen.Sun
United States539 Posts
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