EPT
Leta 5-0Flash 5-1
Stork 5-1
Jaedong 4-1Crazy-Hydra 3-0n.Die_soO 3-0Calm 4-2sHy 4-2Fantasy 3-1Dear 3-1Hydra 3-1Reality 3-1Neo.G_Soulkey 3-2Stats 3-2BeSt 3-2Brave 3-2BaBy 3-2TurN 2-1Shine 2-1Bisu 0-3Power Rank Discussion Thread - Page 30
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bks
Ukraine62 Posts
Leta 5-0Flash 5-1Stork 5-1Jaedong 4-1Crazy-Hydra 3-0n.Die_soO 3-0Calm 4-2sHy 4-2Fantasy 3-1Dear 3-1Hydra 3-1Reality 3-1Neo.G_Soulkey 3-2Stats 3-2BeSt 3-2Brave 3-2BaBy 3-2TurN 2-1Shine 2-1Bisu 0-3 | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
Last PR was released mid February, so don't expect a new one at least until the end of the round. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
If I was to place 10 people from above on the PR right now... I think the top 5 from the above list deserve a place in the PR (for more reasons than just "good record last month"). To fill the other half, I would go with Dear (obvious reason), Fantasy, Hydra, Soo, and Soulkey. Shy played some good games but he doesn't give me the impression that he'll be a reliable win. Calm, well... his opponent fucked up a lot of times. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
I much rather see Leta in the top five as he's smoking at the moment. The guy is a much better fit compared to Hydra and Soo when it comes to the top five. -_- | ||
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DracoVolantus
Poland236 Posts
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
On March 01 2012 23:45 StarStruck wrote: Just for taking down Flash you would put Dear in the top five? *rolls eyes* I much rather see Leta in the top five as he's smoking at the moment. The guy is a much better fit compared to Hydra and Soo when it comes to the top five. -_- -_- I put the top five of the list at the top of the page as my top five, then filled 6-10 with the ones I explicitly mentioned. *edit: and in no particular order, but I do like the 1-5 grouping and 6-10 grouping. Hmm, but may I should move Fantasy up... I agree that Leta is smoking hot right now, and his victory against the Dong was nothing short of strategic genius. *edit2: fine I'll just write it out so people don't hate me after they misread what I wrote. If I were to make the PR today... 1. Flash 2. Leta 3. Stork 4. Fantasy 5. Crazy-Hydra 6. Soulkey 7. Hydra 8. Jaedong 9. Dear 10. Soo Bah, I think spots 3-5 and 6-10 are still shuffle-able, but those are my quick picks. | ||
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VGhost
United States3618 Posts
On March 01 2012 21:20 Dakkas wrote: That's the sad thing, only Flash, Fantasy, Leta and Soulkey are the players that are consistently solid and reliable. Everyone else is just.......ehhhh Don't hate on Stork. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19348 Posts
1. Flash - only one loss 2. Leta - because he has the power right now 3. Fantasy - only two loses this season could be in front of leta 4. Stork - solid as ever in this last month 5. Soulkey - solid all season 6. Hydra - has scary potential 7. Crazy-Hydra - on a KT Rollster 8. Jaedong - broke slump 9. Reality - Solid terran 10. SoO - consistent results for SKT | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On March 02 2012 01:16 BisuDagger wrote: Bisu in his fall from grace. Doesn't deserve a spot this month if JD didn't deserve it last month for the same reasons. 1. Flash - only one loss 2. Leta - because he has the power right now 3. Fantasy - only two loses this season could be in front of leta 4. Stork - solid as ever in this last month 5. Soulkey - solid all season 6. Hydra - has scary potential 7. Crazy-Hydra - on a KT Rollster 8. Jaedong - broke slump 9. Reality - Solid terran 10. SoO - consistent results for SKT I disagree with putting Hydra so high. I mean, his record for last month is passable. His record for the season is mediocre. People like Crazy-Hydra has much better momentum as well as season-long record. I ll put Turn above Hydra, or Reality or Jaedong, for that matter. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19348 Posts
On March 02 2012 04:19 ffreakk wrote: I disagree with putting Hydra so high. I mean, his record for last month is passable. His record for the season is mediocre. People like Crazy-Hydra has much better momentum as well as season-long record. I ll put Turn above Hydra, or Reality or Jaedong, for that matter. Agreed, I'm still clinging on to the fact that he was soooo good in the past year/2 years. And Turn could still retain a spot. They are all interchangeable after the top 5. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
It seems like Fantasy is getting penalized because SKT played fewer games in February than any other team...? Simply pulling from the list bks posted at the top of this page doesn't give a good representation of where things are at. 1. Flash / 2. Fantasy is pretty inarguable right now. Both of them are absurdly strong in every match-up. Leta still has to show us he can TvP at a high level. Historically it's his weak point where he struggles to maintain even 50% wins. Right now his TvP ELO is a meager 2036. By comparison Fantasy is 2182 in his lowest rated match and Flash is 2246 in his lowest rated match. Hydra has basically been a One Map Wonder this season. Don't see how he can make it as high as 6. Even placing him in the top 10 is still debatable right now. We will have to see how he does as R3 continues. Although Dear is getting good results, I hate to see someone get so much credit just for sniping one match against weak competition. Yes, you heard me. Fine, he was the lucky bum who achieved a win over Flash, but who else has he beaten? Sea (x2), Light (x2), and FBH, none of whom can TvP to save their lives right now. Sea and Light are currently looking Casy level at TvP. It's not like we haven't seen Flash get taken out unexpectedly before. M18M? Hyun? Hell, even MVP is arguably more famous for taking a game from Flash than for his SC2 results. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
On March 02 2012 05:10 Mortality wrote: What the hell are with these rankings? It seems like Fantasy is getting penalized because SKT played fewer games in February than any other team...? Simply pulling from the list bks posted at the top of this page doesn't give a good representation of where things are at. 1. Flash / 2. Fantasy is pretty inarguable right now. Both of them are absurdly strong in every match-up. Leta still has to show us he can TvP at a high level. Historically it's his weak point where he struggles to maintain even 50% wins. Right now his TvP ELO is a meager 2036. By comparison Fantasy is 2182 in his lowest rated match and Flash is 2246 in his lowest rated match. Hydra has basically been a One Map Wonder this season. Don't see how he can make it as high as 6. Even placing him in the top 10 is still debatable right now. We will have to see how he does as R3 continues. Although Dear is getting good results, I hate to see someone get so much credit just for sniping one match against weak competition. Yes, you heard me. Fine, he was the lucky bum who achieved a win over Flash, but who else has he beaten? Sea (x2), Light (x2), and FBH, none of whom can TvP to save their lives right now. Sea and Light are currently looking Casy level at TvP. It's not like we haven't seen Flash get taken out unexpectedly before. M18M? Hyun? Hell, even MVP is arguably more famous for taking a game from Flash than for his SC2 results. I agree with you that we can't rank people solely based on the results of the games played since the last PR / last month. I believe that the content/level of the games should weigh in heavily as well. However, isn't the point of monthly PR to highlight those that did well in the past month? Why would we need our unique PR if we were going to argue based on historical ELO's, peaks, KeSPA rankings, and other statistical data, if those were all readily available anyway? I feel like pulling out ELO of specific match-ups is highly irrelevant when we talk about who performed well in the last month. With so little games played, it's indeed hard to evaluate players on every match-up and on different maps, so we'll have to stick to what we get (4-6 games per player) and adjust accordingly. For that reason, Dear gets the nod on my list at #9 because that one game had so much impact in the community, plus he proved to be a diligent progamer - he even studied Flash's scanning patterns to execute his build. I'm not saying the boundaries of evaluation should be cut so clearly between months that everyone starts even as soon as a PR is released. No matter what, in our conscious there is the dominating figures like Flash who just seem to fit into the #1 spot. What I'm saying is that we should put a major emphasis on the monthly results and try not to look too far back beyond the past month, so that we can put see things "where it's at." | ||
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Gara
Canada435 Posts
1. Flash: Flash is undisputedly still the best BW player, one loss not withstanding. He pretty much out-metagamed himself.2. Fantasy: Fantasy has been ridiculously consistent for SKT and is the only reason they have a playofff spot3. Stork: Stork is looking a bit shaky, but he's still a monster at PvP, and undisputedly the best Protoss player right now.4. Neo.G_Soulkey: Soulkey has been Star's saving grace, especially considering how Zero has been slumping lately.5. Leta: Similarly, Leta is the only player who is really consistent for CJ, going 5-0 this round.6. Jaedong: Jaedong has recovered from his slump, although a little too late in the season to really help.7. Crazy-Hydra: Crazy-Hydra has outperformed anyone's reasonable expectations, often scoring the third win for KT.8. TurN: Even though Turn is a bit of a 2-map wonder, he's beaten strong players in every matchup and really helped KHAN.9/10: BeSt/Stats/BaBy/Hydra/n.Die_soO/Dear/sHy? There are a number of choices for the last couple of spots, all players with some strengths and some weakness. Really hard to say. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On March 02 2012 05:30 OpticalShot wrote: I agree with you that we can't rank people solely based on the results of the games played since the last PR / last month. I believe that the content/level of the games should weigh in heavily as well. However, isn't the point of monthly PR to highlight those that did well in the past month? Why would we need our unique PR if we were going to argue based on historical ELO's, peaks, KeSPA rankings, and other statistical data, if those were all readily available anyway? I feel like pulling out ELO of specific match-ups is highly irrelevant when we talk about who performed well in the last month. With so little games played, it's indeed hard to evaluate players on every match-up and on different maps, so we'll have to stick to what we get (4-6 games per player) and adjust accordingly. For that reason, Dear gets the nod on my list at #9 because that one game had so much impact in the community, plus he proved to be a diligent progamer - he even studied Flash's scanning patterns to execute his build. I'm not saying the boundaries of evaluation should be cut so clearly between months that everyone starts even as soon as a PR is released. No matter what, in our conscious there is the dominating figures like Flash who just seem to fit into the #1 spot. What I'm saying is that we should put a major emphasis on the monthly results and try not to look too far back beyond the past month, so that we can put see things "where it's at." 1) PR is no longer released monthly due to the low number of games. The next PR will be out at the end of R3 or maybe even after the playoffs, depending on when OSL returns (if ever). I bumped this thread because we are almost halfway through R3, not because PR release is imminent. 2) PR is NOT simply a recount of all the things that happened over the past month, and it never has been. Go back to nearly the beginning when Savior went 0-2 during a ranking period but was virtually unaffected (only dropping from 2 to 3 behind Bisu who had beaten him 3-0 in MSL and NaDa who had beaten him 3-1 in OGN Masters). You ask why we would care about overall historical statistical data when we already have ELO and KeSPA? Because neither of those rankings attempts to put that information into perspective. For example, Bisu was #1 by ELO for a long time over the past year, but could anyone who understands Starcraft say with a straight face that Bisu was ahead of Flash? Bisu went month after month without facing serious challenge, whereas Flash was in MSL and OSL and facing the toughest competition. Even now Bisu is #3 by ELO, but that's more of a remnant of the ELO he achieved last season. But that doesn't mean that ELO should be ignored as an indicator just because ELO already ranks players. Nobody is saying to just copy ELO, which currently places Bisu at #4 and Hydra at #7, but when I want to compare Leta's TvP to Fantasy's, for example, the difference of a 2036 ELO ratings vs a 2236 ELO rating tells me that Leta has something to prove before I can take for granted that his TvP is anywhere in the same galaxy. 3) Conversely to to point 2, what would be the point of a ranking that only considers last month's results? It's not hard to fiddle with the date settings in TLPD and with only PL in action, it's even more of a joke since I can just open up the [R&S] thread which shows the results of literally every game played this season. [R&S] thread -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=283834 4) Understanding Flash's scanner patterns was a good play, but Dear himself admitted that it was a total gamble and that the build he used lost more often than it won in practice. This is not like Dear has proven himself to be an S-class level sniper. At least when Snow was being built up as a Terran killer he was in the middle of a 9 game win streak with wins over Flash, Fantasy, Hiya, and Really (x2) who was really good at TvP back then. I'd like to see Dear do more to prove himself before he's considered rank worthy. It's a HUGE joke when you can have only 1 meaningful win ALL season long and get on the rank JUST for that. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
He beat Flash. I mean, areufkingsrs? He beat Flash. That by itself deserves the absolutely most brilliant reward it can have. Because i have not seen a national holiday in dear's honor, i think he deserves to be #2. | ||
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
My bad, I completely forgot about the bird. Yes, he should be in top 5 | ||
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On March 02 2012 13:31 Motivate wrote: results-wise leta has a great record, but i'm just not convinced by his play. a lot of his wins seem to come from gimmicky builds (2 port wraith anyone?) or his opponents failing to silly timing attacks. he's past his prime. Hey don't hate on strategical plays. You wouldn't discount all of Boxer's wins, would you? | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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