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On October 20 2011 23:38 Zergneedsfood wrote:
No. It sounds about right to me. I'm pretty sure that if you give Flash a short amount of time, there's mistake that he'll wreck everyone on tour right now.
actually, even as a flash fanboy, i disagree with you simply because of the state of the sc2 metagame right now.
though flash would do very well if you gave him say, 1 month to prepare and learn (though i am 99% sure he, along with most bw progamers, will have played sc2 for a bit recently) i think he'd be able to get to the semis easily. however, terran in sc2 i feel does have a "ceiling" in terms of macro, and i think one month won't be enough for even flash to master the metagame enough to utilise his other inherent advantages fully to overcome the more level playing field and the luck factor involved.
HOWEVER, if flash were to play zerg in sc2 and play for more than a month, i think he could easily become the best zerg after a couple of months or so. i don't think any zerg apart from  NesTea is maximizing zerg macro to the fullest, flash's godly macro + decision making would allow him to really bring out the full potential of sc2 zerg.
again, i keep referring to this, but nada said that terran and protoss bw pros switching over won't really rock the scene, but a top zerg switching would be devastating. the reason why i keep coming back to this is because i believe this to be really, really true. caster um said the easier mechanics has allowed nestea to become the best zerg given his strategic mind and game sense were already there.
imagine hydra, soo, or JD not having to worry about managing 10+ hatcheries and being able to select 50 larva at the same time. scary, anyone?
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On October 20 2011 23:53 ArhK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 23:38 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 20 2011 23:34 ArhK wrote:On October 20 2011 23:15 oldfartz wrote:
maybe flash could just do 1 week training, win first place then go back to BW lol So retarded that it sounds comical... No. It sounds about right to me. I'm pretty sure that if you give Flash a short amount of time, there's mistake that he'll wreck everyone on tour right now. On October 20 2011 23:28 Matkap wrote:
you people should someday realise that everything in this world, is run by money, and when sponsors realise they can get more international exposure, and the same national exposure, they will "force" via kespa all the teams to switch, and if this is true, it is the first step.
After all some of the top Korean bw sponsors such as Samsung are already sponsoring international sc2 events... Makes no sense. Not going to happen. No good reasoning/evidence to back it. Korea is still heavy on BW. Sponsors won't force them to switch. So, a week seems enough for you to learn everything about mechanics, the whole metagame of every match up, on every map, and be the best in the world at that..? You should stop jerking off at our SCBW gods and acknowledge that it will takes a _little_ more time than that to any top SCBW player to be able to "crush" a Mvp or a Nestea.
Did I say a week? No, I said it sounded about right. I apologize if you took me literally, but okay, let's say a week.
We're talking about Flash here. This is the guy who said he would win an OSL in a year. No one believed him, and he did it against some of the best players at the time (including Stork in the finals) at age 15. Now, given that everyone acknowledges that SC2 is an infinitely easier game to grasp, and BW mechanics can easily translate into SC2 mechanics, I have no doubt that it shouldn't take very long.
So okay. Maybe not a week. As the above poster stated, maybe a month.
Let's also remember that Flash thinks about SC more than he actually plays it. This guy plays like he has map hacks on.
Edit: Also, my thoughts on MVP and Nestea: once a baddie always a baddie. I don't think Flash will have problems after he gets used to it.
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On October 20 2011 23:53 ArhK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 23:38 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 20 2011 23:34 ArhK wrote:On October 20 2011 23:15 oldfartz wrote:
maybe flash could just do 1 week training, win first place then go back to BW lol So retarded that it sounds comical... No. It sounds about right to me. I'm pretty sure that if you give Flash a short amount of time, there's mistake that he'll wreck everyone on tour right now. On October 20 2011 23:28 Matkap wrote:
you people should someday realise that everything in this world, is run by money, and when sponsors realise they can get more international exposure, and the same national exposure, they will "force" via kespa all the teams to switch, and if this is true, it is the first step.
After all some of the top Korean bw sponsors such as Samsung are already sponsoring international sc2 events... Makes no sense. Not going to happen. No good reasoning/evidence to back it. Korea is still heavy on BW. Sponsors won't force them to switch. So, a week seems enough for you to learn everything about mechanics, the whole metagame of every match up, on every map, and be the best in the world at that..? You should stop jerking off at our SCBW gods and acknowledge that it will takes a _little_ more time than that to any top SCBW player to be able to "crush" a Mvp or a Nestea.
Agreed. 2 weeks. First week spent adapting to bionic arm.
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On October 20 2011 23:28 Matkap wrote:
you people should someday realise that everything in this world, is run by money, and when sponsors realise they can get more international exposure, and the same national exposure, they will "force" via kespa all the teams to switch, and if this is true, it is the first step.
After all some of the top Korean bw sponsors such as Samsung are already sponsoring international sc2 events...
one, not some. Samsung is the only BW sponsor with a global audience
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Korea (South)11579 Posts
On October 20 2011 23:56 evilfatsh1t wrote:
wtf...this is crap
no offense but sc2 doesnt compare to bw in entertainment value and tbh i dont want to see half the proleague season streaming sc2 games which im not interested in at all
besides...doesnt sc2 have like 87685868 other leagues already
hard to follow the scene enough already, dont need to make it worse
I almost fully agree with you.
I watch proleague because i want to cheer on my favorite BW team. If I want to watch SC2, I can watch it at almost any point of day on any number of tournaments being broadcasted that day.
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On October 20 2011 23:56 evilfatsh1t wrote:
wtf...this is crap
no offense but sc2 doesnt compare to bw in entertainment value and tbh i dont want to see half the proleague season streaming sc2 games which im not interested in at all
besides...doesnt sc2 have like 87685868 other leagues already
hard to follow the scene enough already, dont need to make it worse
well, guess what, the world insnt catered to you
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
I would like to say something reggarding the article though,they are considering having one game BW next Game SC2 in a Bo7, fortunately with the way KeSPA is planning the upcoming PL season, that is, asking what the fans want(like the fomos poll thread) I don't see it happening that way.
you can't take KeSPA's past actions with as much weight anymore since they went under internal reconstruction.
have faith,they will most likely have a separate PL for both BW and SC2.
plus there is negotiations with Gretech and Blizzard.
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On October 20 2011 23:56 evilfatsh1t wrote:
wtf...this is crap
no offense but sc2 doesnt compare to bw in entertainment value and tbh i dont want to see half the proleague season streaming sc2 games which im not interested in at all
besides...doesnt sc2 have like 87685868 other leagues already
hard to follow the scene enough already, dont need to make it worse
Whether you prefer BW or SC2 is completely subjective. It's not a FACT that BW is more entertaining than sc2, that's just a completely retarded statement.
LOL GOLF IS WAY MORE ENTERTAINING THAN FOOTBALL WHO ARE THESE DICK HEADS THAT WATCH FOOTBALL ANYWAY?!?!?!?!
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On October 20 2011 03:54 TheGlassface wrote:
14 pages and so many topics and no one gets it.
We BW fans are becoming marginalized at every step. Of course we're going to be in defensive postures.
This website is clearly more focused on SCII than BW
The majority of us speak English and the English speaking world is clearly more focused on SCII.
Hell, we can't even watch our games in English or read about them in English.
Our player roster is being marginalized as more and more B teamers and old Bonjwas go over.
In almost every global event, BW is being marginalized if not cut right out.
Our forum here is a constant battleground, as we now are about 1/2 of the poster count
...
So...yea, now you're telling me that my PL is "meshing," with SCII?
I was more than fine with my game, my PL and my website. I have none of these things now, as they were.
I, of all people, don't want to start the war here but the fact is this is why we get pissy. Every, single, time.
Just try and think from our side next time you want to come in here and post like villageidiot or any of his ilk. We don't care that you like your game, we want you to enjoy it. We just want what once was back or at the very least to stop being squeezed in and nudged over to make room for the new puppy.
So, while you see it is "cooperation," and "sharing," we see it as just another in a long line of unfortunate events that continue to shrink and mold our sport alongside something it is not, taking away fans, airtime and players.
Either way, thank you for the news OP. It's always nice to know what is going on in the scene.
This post describes my thoughts about the KeSpa move. Cannot put it better myself.
To all the posters who told us BW fans to move on, we have been watching the same sport for years because of the gameplay and complexity. We love seeing large army movement across the map without clumping; we love seeing maneuvers that only one or a few of the top players can do; we love battle engagements that last for longer than 10 seconds (and even in minutes).
We do not have MLG in the US or ESL/IEM in Europe. We have to wake up at odd hours (like 4am in the morning) to watch BW matches live. We have to listen to Korean without understanding a single Korean word (maybe a few if you count Plaguuu, Pactory and Ribo as Korean). We have to rely on a website's translators to know what is going on in the scene. Now ask yourself, will you still follow SC2 if you need to do any of the above now? How about in 1 year? In 5 years? If not, SC2 is your hobby, but BW is our passion.
I'm no veteran and I started following pro-BW in 2007. I played SC2 for 2 months and watched the Fruitdealer GSL. During this BW off season, I tuned in the recent MLG out of boredom. Out of the ~30 games I watched, ~70% of them ends with one single deciding battle that last for less than 10 seconds. There is just no comparison to any A-team match in BW. And there is no substitute for me in the entire eSport for BW.
If moving on to any other eSport game out there makes you happy, do so. I'm staying with my 12 year old, 640x480 dated graphics BW.
P.S. Car analogy...
+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2011 18:03 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 17:03 Chargelot wrote:On October 20 2011 16:55 raga4ka wrote:On October 20 2011 16:47 Chargelot wrote:On October 20 2011 16:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote:On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote:So, does this news mean that  MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW? They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc. It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult. In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses. They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think. I don't know man . I still think that an A teamer's mechanics from BW would blow anyone in SC2 in to the middle of last week . The mechanics are very different. One doesn't necessarily translate into the other. Sticking with the car metaphor, it's like driving a sedan vs. a semi truck. In theory they're the same, but in reality that's not true. Being great at driving one doesn't make you great at driving the other, it just makes you capable. I don't think that the issue is with BW skill vs. SC2 Skill, I just think that BW, because of its limited mechanics, has a significantly lower theoretical maximum than SC2 with its mechanics not being half as limited. In a sense, I believe it's easier for Flash to be Flash in BW than it would be for Flash to be a Flash in SC2. It isn't entirely about the players, but rather the games. Flash is approaching the speed of light in BW, while we can't even define the speed of light in SC2. Not because the players are bad, but because the game has a higher theoretical maximum. On October 20 2011 16:57 puppykiller wrote:On October 20 2011 16:47 Chargelot wrote:On October 20 2011 16:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote:On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote:So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW? They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc. It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult. In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses. They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think. this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head. I feel like you haven't watched much professional SC2. Not being overwhelmed by a 12 unit selection limit doesn't mean that you aren't overwhelmed by something else. i think you're creating too much a difference between bw and sc2. since we're comparing to cars, bw to sc2 is like Ferrari F40 to Nissan GTR. Going from manual transmission, no ABS, no TC, no computer aid to double clutch, AYC, TC, ABS, etc. etc. GTR(sc2) allows you to get the best lap time possible around a track without having to worry too much about things like throttle/break control and miss shift since the computer does it for you. its just difference of technique and method. MBS, unlimited selection, queue makes sc2 easier compared to bw, however that doesn't mean bw is that much harder. different technique and methods are used in bw which doesn't compare to sc2. for example, grouping everything in one in bw would be a horrible idea as they would move in a line for long distance. building units in bw is similar to warping in wg units in sc2. cloning instead of smart cast, etc. if your mechanic is good in bw, you'll be good in sc2. can't say the same for other way around for the same reason i've described with the F40 to GTR comparison. I like this F40 vs GTR analogy a lot. It reminds me a documentary about the fighter pilots in WWI. It talks about how the topgun pilots in WWI with over 20 kills had mad strategic and flying skills to outmaneuver and outsmart enemies and shoot them down with only machine gun. But the modern F16 fighter pilot just need to know the advanced functionality such as GPS, radar, laser guided missiles, etc in order to do well in missions.
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On October 21 2011 00:10 HighTemper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 03:54 TheGlassface wrote:
14 pages and so many topics and no one gets it.
We BW fans are becoming marginalized at every step. Of course we're going to be in defensive postures.
This website is clearly more focused on SCII than BW
The majority of us speak English and the English speaking world is clearly more focused on SCII.
Hell, we can't even watch our games in English or read about them in English.
Our player roster is being marginalized as more and more B teamers and old Bonjwas go over.
In almost every global event, BW is being marginalized if not cut right out.
Our forum here is a constant battleground, as we now are about 1/2 of the poster count
...
So...yea, now you're telling me that my PL is "meshing," with SCII?
I was more than fine with my game, my PL and my website. I have none of these things now, as they were.
I, of all people, don't want to start the war here but the fact is this is why we get pissy. Every, single, time.
Just try and think from our side next time you want to come in here and post like villageidiot or any of his ilk. We don't care that you like your game, we want you to enjoy it. We just want what once was back or at the very least to stop being squeezed in and nudged over to make room for the new puppy.
So, while you see it is "cooperation," and "sharing," we see it as just another in a long line of unfortunate events that continue to shrink and mold our sport alongside something it is not, taking away fans, airtime and players.
Either way, thank you for the news OP. It's always nice to know what is going on in the scene. This post describes my thoughts about the KeSpa move. Cannot put it better myself. To all the posters who told us BW fans to move on, we have been watching the same sport for years because of the gameplay and complexity. We love seeing large army movement across the map without clumping; we love seeing maneuvers that only one or a few of the top players can do; we love battle engagements that last for longer than 10 seconds (and even in minutes). We do not have MLG in the US or ESL/IEM in Europe. We have to wake up at odd hours (like 4am in the morning) to watch BW matches live. We have to listen to Korean without understanding a single Korean word (maybe a few if you count Plaguuu, Pactory and Ribo as Korean). We have to rely on a website's translators to know what is going on in the scene. Now ask yourself, will you still follow SC2 if you need to do any of the above now? How about in 1 year? In 5 years? If not, SC2 is your hobby, but BW is our passion. I'm no veteran and I started following pro-BW in 2007. I played SC2 for 2 months and watched the Fruitdealer GSL. During this BW off season, I tuned in the recent MLG out of boredom. Out of the ~30 games I watched, ~70% of them ends with one single deciding battle that last for less than 10 seconds. There is just no comparison to any A-team match in BW. And there is no substitute for me in the entire eSport for BW. If moving on to any other eSport game out there makes you happy, do so. I'm staying with my 12 year old, 640x480 dated graphics BW. P.S. Car analogy... + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2011 18:03 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 17:03 Chargelot wrote:On October 20 2011 16:55 raga4ka wrote:On October 20 2011 16:47 Chargelot wrote:On October 20 2011 16:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote:On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote:So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW? They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc. It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult. In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses. They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think. I don't know man . I still think that an A teamer's mechanics from BW would blow anyone in SC2 in to the middle of last week . The mechanics are very different. One doesn't necessarily translate into the other. Sticking with the car metaphor, it's like driving a sedan vs. a semi truck. In theory they're the same, but in reality that's not true. Being great at driving one doesn't make you great at driving the other, it just makes you capable. I don't think that the issue is with BW skill vs. SC2 Skill, I just think that BW, because of its limited mechanics, has a significantly lower theoretical maximum than SC2 with its mechanics not being half as limited. In a sense, I believe it's easier for Flash to be Flash in BW than it would be for Flash to be a Flash in SC2. It isn't entirely about the players, but rather the games. Flash is approaching the speed of light in BW, while we can't even define the speed of light in SC2. Not because the players are bad, but because the game has a higher theoretical maximum. On October 20 2011 16:57 puppykiller wrote:On October 20 2011 16:47 Chargelot wrote:On October 20 2011 16:38 FuRRyChoBo wrote:On October 20 2011 16:31 Jenia6109 wrote:So, does this news mean that MVP, GanZi, ZergBong, Iron, SaiR and the others will return to BW? They might play for fun, but BW is so much more mechanically demanding than SC2 that I doubt prolonged exposure to an "easier" game would result in them having solid mechanics for BW. I don't mean to start an argument over the games by saying that; just pointing obvious things like limited unit selection, requiring selection of individual units to cast spells individually, etc. It's different than you're portraying it. In BW you have to perform complex actions using a very limited system. Imagine trying to drive a car which had half of a steering wheel and only one awkwardly combined gas and brake pedal. Driving that car professionally would be very difficult. In SC2, you have to perform equally as complex actions using a very available system. Perhaps too many options exist. Imagine driving a car with 3 steering wheels which operated independently of each other and all had unique and necessary uses. They both require an extreme amount of skill at the top levels, while SC2 simply allows for an easier time in the bottom levels. BW was extremely difficult for low level players, and moving up in your ranking meant a lot more. But at the end of the day, the top 5% of each are on an almost equal level, I would like to think. this isnt true. sc2 is almost only a strategy (build order) game at the top level. or atleast compared to bw it is. decision making is also way easier in sc2 since your not so overwhelmed with tasks and you can keep a clear head. I feel like you haven't watched much professional SC2. Not being overwhelmed by a 12 unit selection limit doesn't mean that you aren't overwhelmed by something else. i think you're creating too much a difference between bw and sc2. since we're comparing to cars, bw to sc2 is like Ferrari F40 to Nissan GTR. Going from manual transmission, no ABS, no TC, no computer aid to double clutch, AYC, TC, ABS, etc. etc. GTR(sc2) allows you to get the best lap time possible around a track without having to worry too much about things like throttle/break control and miss shift since the computer does it for you. its just difference of technique and method. MBS, unlimited selection, queue makes sc2 easier compared to bw, however that doesn't mean bw is that much harder. different technique and methods are used in bw which doesn't compare to sc2. for example, grouping everything in one in bw would be a horrible idea as they would move in a line for long distance. building units in bw is similar to warping in wg units in sc2. cloning instead of smart cast, etc. if your mechanic is good in bw, you'll be good in sc2. can't say the same for other way around for the same reason i've described with the F40 to GTR comparison. I like this F40 vs GTR analogy a lot. It reminds me a documentary about the fighter pilots in WWI. It talks about how the topgun pilots in WWI with over 20 kills had mad strategic and flying skills to outmaneuver and outsmart enemies and shoot them down with only machine gun. But the modern F16 fighter pilot just need to know the advanced functionality such as GPS, radar, laser guided missiles, etc in order to do well in missions.
No need for any analogies. This post echoes exactly what I feel and say.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
I don't believe in the all change is bad change,why are people feeling like KeSPA is going to abandon BW after doing so much.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Very sad news in my book.
SC2 has GTSL, no need for SC2 PL.
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On October 20 2011 03:54 TheGlassface wrote:
14 pages and so many topics and no one gets it.
We BW fans are becoming marginalized at every step. Of course we're going to be in defensive postures.
This website is clearly more focused on SCII than BW
The majority of us speak English and the English speaking world is clearly more focused on SCII.
Hell, we can't even watch our games in English or read about them in English.
Our player roster is being marginalized as more and more B teamers and old Bonjwas go over.
In almost every global event, BW is being marginalized if not cut right out.
Our forum here is a constant battleground, as we now are about 1/2 of the poster count
...
So...yea, now you're telling me that my PL is "meshing," with SCII?
I was more than fine with my game, my PL and my website. I have none of these things now, as they were.
I, of all people, don't want to start the war here but the fact is this is why we get pissy. Every, single, time.
Just try and think from our side next time you want to come in here and post like villageidiot or any of his ilk. We don't care that you like your game, we want you to enjoy it. We just want what once was back or at the very least to stop being squeezed in and nudged over to make room for the new puppy.
So, while you see it is "cooperation," and "sharing," we see it as just another in a long line of unfortunate events that continue to shrink and mold our sport alongside something it is not, taking away fans, airtime and players.
Either way, thank you for the news OP. It's always nice to know what is going on in the scene.
As what you could call, an sc2 fan, that knows little about BW, I respect everything you say.
you know what is really, really boring though? 90% of posts of "bw people" on sc2 are about how the game is so bad, so boring, and almost saying that if you watch sc2, you are stupid and brain dead. I get that you are feel a threat or something, but if some people really cant stand the fact that kespa might embrace sc2, and maybe they show the games after BW PL, I think they need to get in contact with reality. If they show them in between I get that it is something bad (I could also say, "oi Kespa, I came to see starcraft 2, not this ancient bullshit trolololol1!!!·"!!!!!11111!!, again, I dont really think this, but this is on the same level of a lot of posts here).
When people are saying they would rather watch a commercial of a fat girl, than having sc2 games AFTER the BW PL, they should realise it makes them look as retarded people that cant look outside their ass.
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On October 21 2011 00:23 Matkap wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 03:54 TheGlassface wrote:
14 pages and so many topics and no one gets it.
We BW fans are becoming marginalized at every step. Of course we're going to be in defensive postures.
This website is clearly more focused on SCII than BW
The majority of us speak English and the English speaking world is clearly more focused on SCII.
Hell, we can't even watch our games in English or read about them in English.
Our player roster is being marginalized as more and more B teamers and old Bonjwas go over.
In almost every global event, BW is being marginalized if not cut right out.
Our forum here is a constant battleground, as we now are about 1/2 of the poster count
...
So...yea, now you're telling me that my PL is "meshing," with SCII?
I was more than fine with my game, my PL and my website. I have none of these things now, as they were.
I, of all people, don't want to start the war here but the fact is this is why we get pissy. Every, single, time.
Just try and think from our side next time you want to come in here and post like villageidiot or any of his ilk. We don't care that you like your game, we want you to enjoy it. We just want what once was back or at the very least to stop being squeezed in and nudged over to make room for the new puppy.
So, while you see it is "cooperation," and "sharing," we see it as just another in a long line of unfortunate events that continue to shrink and mold our sport alongside something it is not, taking away fans, airtime and players.
Either way, thank you for the news OP. It's always nice to know what is going on in the scene. As what you could call, an sc2 fan, that knows little about BW, I respect everything you say. you know what is really, really boring though? 90% of posts of "bw people" on sc2 are about how the game is so bad, so boring, and almost saying that if you watch sc2, you are stupid and brain dead. I get that you are feel a threat or something, but if some people really cant stand the fact that kespa might embrace sc2, and maybe they show the games after BW PL, I think they need to get in contact with reality. If they show them in between I get that it is something bad (I could also say, "oi Kespa, I came to see starcraft 2, not this ancient bullshit trolololol1!!!·"!!!!!11111!!, again, I dont really think this, but this is on the same level of a lot of posts here). When people are saying they would rather watch a commercial of a fat girl, than having sc2 games AFTER the BW PL, they should realise it makes them look as retarded people that cant look outside their ass.
Who are the people calling you stupid and brain dead? It's mostly just people saying that they find BW more entertaining to watch.
Those who say "stupid" and "brain dead" are a vocal minority of a minority.
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For the arguments sake im going to assume that people in general (and SCII-fans in particular) are 1. intelligent and 2. Stubborn and proud, but dont have an infinite amount of it.
In that case, if we see for example a mixed set of games of back-to-back games, SC will likely be exposed to SCII-fans that hasn´t really watched the game before.
And i (and many amongst me) believe that BW is at the moment a more entertaining game, and more likeable (graphics set aside). So this cant really be a bad thing? Maybe BW will get more followers, and the two games can co-exsist. I love that SCII is getting huge and that E-sports are taking off, but i would not like to see it eliminate BW entierly, at it has almost done in the non-korean scene. We need professionals playing this game so it will evolve and continue to be interresting, even though they are all korean and that we cant understand a word that the casters are saying.
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On October 20 2011 23:58 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 23:53 ArhK wrote:On October 20 2011 23:38 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 20 2011 23:34 ArhK wrote:On October 20 2011 23:15 oldfartz wrote:
maybe flash could just do 1 week training, win first place then go back to BW lol So retarded that it sounds comical... No. It sounds about right to me. I'm pretty sure that if you give Flash a short amount of time, there's mistake that he'll wreck everyone on tour right now. On October 20 2011 23:28 Matkap wrote:
you people should someday realise that everything in this world, is run by money, and when sponsors realise they can get more international exposure, and the same national exposure, they will "force" via kespa all the teams to switch, and if this is true, it is the first step.
After all some of the top Korean bw sponsors such as Samsung are already sponsoring international sc2 events... Makes no sense. Not going to happen. No good reasoning/evidence to back it. Korea is still heavy on BW. Sponsors won't force them to switch. So, a week seems enough for you to learn everything about mechanics, the whole metagame of every match up, on every map, and be the best in the world at that..? You should stop jerking off at our SCBW gods and acknowledge that it will takes a _little_ more time than that to any top SCBW player to be able to "crush" a Mvp or a Nestea. Did I say a week? No, I said it sounded about right. I apologize if you took me literally, but okay, let's say a week. We're talking about Flash here. This is the guy who said he would win an OSL in a year. No one believed him, and he did it against some of the best players at the time (including Stork in the finals) at age 15. Now, given that everyone acknowledges that SC2 is an infinitely easier game to grasp, and BW mechanics can easily translate into SC2 mechanics, I have no doubt that it shouldn't take very long. So okay. Maybe not a week. As the above poster stated, maybe a month. Let's also remember that Flash thinks about SC more than he actually plays it. This guy plays like he has map hacks on. Edit: Also, my thoughts on MVP and Nestea: once a baddie always a baddie. I don't think Flash will have problems after he gets used to it.
it's a different game....
did you see how long it took MVP to got to where he is now in SC2? Did you see how boxer, nada, july just aren't doing as well as you would hope?
that's because mechanics can only get you so far in sc2, not all play style can transition well to sc2
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As a pretty much solely SC2 fan, I can agree that BW probably has more depth and possibly a higher skill ceiling, though of course it's been around quite a bit longer than SC2, so we'll see how strategies evolve; but I think that what quite a bit of people posting here are missing the fact that you can have both BW and SC2 at the same time, a lot of people are talking about SC2 somehow replacing BW in Proleague (even though there's no concrete information at all yet), and I'd be pretty worked up about that too if I primarily watched BW, but it's not happening, at least now as far as we know. I just hope that in the future the seeming hatred between the fan bases of both games can settle down a bit and we can just enjoy our own game/players (if we can't enjoy both!)
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On October 21 2011 00:45 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 23:58 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 20 2011 23:53 ArhK wrote:On October 20 2011 23:38 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 20 2011 23:34 ArhK wrote:On October 20 2011 23:15 oldfartz wrote:
maybe flash could just do 1 week training, win first place then go back to BW lol So retarded that it sounds comical... No. It sounds about right to me. I'm pretty sure that if you give Flash a short amount of time, there's mistake that he'll wreck everyone on tour right now. On October 20 2011 23:28 Matkap wrote:
you people should someday realise that everything in this world, is run by money, and when sponsors realise they can get more international exposure, and the same national exposure, they will "force" via kespa all the teams to switch, and if this is true, it is the first step.
After all some of the top Korean bw sponsors such as Samsung are already sponsoring international sc2 events... Makes no sense. Not going to happen. No good reasoning/evidence to back it. Korea is still heavy on BW. Sponsors won't force them to switch. So, a week seems enough for you to learn everything about mechanics, the whole metagame of every match up, on every map, and be the best in the world at that..? You should stop jerking off at our SCBW gods and acknowledge that it will takes a _little_ more time than that to any top SCBW player to be able to "crush" a Mvp or a Nestea. Did I say a week? No, I said it sounded about right. I apologize if you took me literally, but okay, let's say a week. We're talking about Flash here. This is the guy who said he would win an OSL in a year. No one believed him, and he did it against some of the best players at the time (including Stork in the finals) at age 15. Now, given that everyone acknowledges that SC2 is an infinitely easier game to grasp, and BW mechanics can easily translate into SC2 mechanics, I have no doubt that it shouldn't take very long. So okay. Maybe not a week. As the above poster stated, maybe a month. Let's also remember that Flash thinks about SC more than he actually plays it. This guy plays like he has map hacks on. Edit: Also, my thoughts on MVP and Nestea: once a baddie always a baddie. I don't think Flash will have problems after he gets used to it. it's a different game.... did you see how long it took MVP to got to where he is now in SC2? Did you see how boxer, nada, july just aren't doing as well as you would hope? that's because mechanics can only get you so far in sc2, not all play style can transition well to sc2
Boxer, Nada, July are playing the game for nostalgia purposes and have since lost much of their prime.
MVP and Nestea were not great players in BW, and like I said, baddies. This is the problem with citing examples of current SC2 pros, it's because the pool is not suitable for analysis of how much skill actually transitions over.
But if anything, the fact that these players are currently the best in the world shows just how badly a good BW player will smash the competition.
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On October 21 2011 00:45 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 23:58 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 20 2011 23:53 ArhK wrote:On October 20 2011 23:38 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 20 2011 23:34 ArhK wrote:On October 20 2011 23:15 oldfartz wrote:
maybe flash could just do 1 week training, win first place then go back to BW lol So retarded that it sounds comical... No. It sounds about right to me. I'm pretty sure that if you give Flash a short amount of time, there's mistake that he'll wreck everyone on tour right now. On October 20 2011 23:28 Matkap wrote:
you people should someday realise that everything in this world, is run by money, and when sponsors realise they can get more international exposure, and the same national exposure, they will "force" via kespa all the teams to switch, and if this is true, it is the first step.
After all some of the top Korean bw sponsors such as Samsung are already sponsoring international sc2 events... Makes no sense. Not going to happen. No good reasoning/evidence to back it. Korea is still heavy on BW. Sponsors won't force them to switch. So, a week seems enough for you to learn everything about mechanics, the whole metagame of every match up, on every map, and be the best in the world at that..? You should stop jerking off at our SCBW gods and acknowledge that it will takes a _little_ more time than that to any top SCBW player to be able to "crush" a Mvp or a Nestea. Did I say a week? No, I said it sounded about right. I apologize if you took me literally, but okay, let's say a week. We're talking about Flash here. This is the guy who said he would win an OSL in a year. No one believed him, and he did it against some of the best players at the time (including Stork in the finals) at age 15. Now, given that everyone acknowledges that SC2 is an infinitely easier game to grasp, and BW mechanics can easily translate into SC2 mechanics, I have no doubt that it shouldn't take very long. So okay. Maybe not a week. As the above poster stated, maybe a month. Let's also remember that Flash thinks about SC more than he actually plays it. This guy plays like he has map hacks on. Edit: Also, my thoughts on MVP and Nestea: once a baddie always a baddie. I don't think Flash will have problems after he gets used to it. it's a different game.... did you see how long it took MVP to got to where he is now in SC2? Did you see how boxer, nada, july just aren't doing as well as you would hope? that's because mechanics can only get you so far in sc2, not all play style can transition well to sc2
Why do people keep bringing this crap up? Do you know how shitty Boxer, Nada and July were in BW when SC2 came out. They were terrible.
If somebody came up with NBA 2 tomorrow because the NBA is locked out, do you except Michael Jordan, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson to still be able to lead their teams to championships?
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On October 21 2011 00:39 Skeggaba wrote:
For the arguments sake im going to assume that people in general (and SCII-fans in particular) are 1. intelligent and 2. Stubborn and proud, but dont have an infinite amount of it.
In that case, if we see for example a mixed set of games of back-to-back games, SC will likely be exposed to SCII-fans that hasn´t really watched the game before.
And i (and many amongst me) believe that BW is at the moment a more entertaining game, and more likeable (graphics set aside). So this cant really be a bad thing? Maybe BW will get more followers, and the two games can co-exsist. I love that SCII is getting huge and that E-sports are taking off, but i would not like to see it eliminate BW entierly, at it has almost done in the non-korean scene. We need professionals playing this game so it will evolve and continue to be interresting, even though they are all korean and that we cant understand a word that the casters are saying.
1 thing you (and many other people) are forgetting: 90% of people who love to play video games care only about one thing: Graphics. And that`s it. They would rather play SC2 than Brood War only because it looks better. Many times I heard that Counter-Strike or Quake 3 suck because it doesn`t have that 1080dp or what is that shit called graphics. So...No,I don`t think that Brood War can get new fans with this merge of games.
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EPT
