On October 19 2011 09:12 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Doesn't anyone get bored of this "mine is better than yours" crap?
Why can't we just enjoy it for what it is and stop getting all offended if someone wants to see more of "x" game being played or more of "x" players playing "x" game.
Its so hard to find any real discussion on this interesting topic through the pages of horrifically biased and slanted arguments with no real end or basis in the first place.
BW is the best BW game that ever came out and SC2 is at best, 2nd place in terms of BW-likeness. Although, SC2 is the best SC2 game yet and BW, now lets be honest, is probably only 2nd best in terms of SC2-likeness. Now clearly if SC2 had more BW, it wouldn't really matter because as long as it was even 1% SC2, it would never reach pure BW, and thus be 2nd best BW. Same goes for BW gaining more SC2-ness.
So if BW is stuck being BW and SC2 is stuck being SC2, lets all agree that BW can not equal SC2, if and only if, SC2 is not equal to BW. Greater than or Less than is meaningless because its like saying "I have more apples then you have oranges so I am better....". No you don't, you just wasted all your money and time on buying more apples.
Ah who am I kidding, as angry as people get, I am sure they enjoy arguing whose game is better. Thinking of strategies and arguments to counter another persons..refining your pessimism for the other view points...editing responses to sound more sophisticated. Its the argument you enjoy, not the win.
You make the false assumption that SC2 could never pass up BW.
Which I believe SC2 WILL pass BW, because SC2 has already passed BW Internationally.
Plus, Blizzard has 2 more chances to perfect the game.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
they lost their pashun!
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
On October 19 2011 09:12 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Doesn't anyone get bored of this "mine is better than yours" crap?
Why can't we just enjoy it for what it is and stop getting all offended if someone wants to see more of "x" game being played or more of "x" players playing "x" game.
Its so hard to find any real discussion on this interesting topic through the pages of horrifically biased and slanted arguments with no real end or basis in the first place.
BW is the best BW game that ever came out and SC2 is at best, 2nd place in terms of BW-likeness. Although, SC2 is the best SC2 game yet and BW, now lets be honest, is probably only 2nd best in terms of SC2-likeness. Now clearly if SC2 had more BW, it wouldn't really matter because as long as it was even 1% SC2, it would never reach pure BW, and thus be 2nd best BW. Same goes for BW gaining more SC2-ness.
So if BW is stuck being BW and SC2 is stuck being SC2, lets all agree that BW can not equal SC2, if and only if, SC2 is not equal to BW. Greater than or Less than is meaningless because its like saying "I have more apples then you have oranges so I am better....". No you don't, you just wasted all your money and time on buying more apples.
Ah who am I kidding, as angry as people get, I am sure they enjoy arguing whose game is better. Thinking of strategies and arguments to counter another persons..refining your pessimism for the other view points...editing responses to sound more sophisticated. Its the argument you enjoy, not the win.
You make the false assumption that SC2 could never pass up BW.
Which I believe SC2 WILL pass BW, because SC2 has already passed BW Internationally.
Plus, Blizzard has 2 more chances to perfect the game.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
On October 19 2011 17:19 SolidMustard wrote: And then they're gonna switch and be terrible at SC2 ^^
hope you trolling there
Obviously . Because they won't switch, not because they would be good.
I'm quite convinced that required skills are just not the same. I lol hard at every sc2-hater explaining how BW requires a 10,000 more skills when it's just not true. You just don't have to use APM on the same thing, SC2 is more about game-sense and mind games and less about mechanics than BW.
So, yeah.. half-trolling actually ^^
Have you played the game and gotten to at least D+ in BW? If not your argument is invalid.
"You just don't have to use APM on the same thing." Fun fact: BW pros can do everything SC2 pros can (strategy, builds, mind games, decision making) and most importantly keep up in mechanics. And with the easier mechanics I still see pros still float 1k + minerals in SC2.
Don't get me wrong, I love both games, both require skill, just that BW requires more skill due to mechanics.
On October 19 2011 17:19 SolidMustard wrote: And then they're gonna switch and be terrible at SC2 ^^
hope you trolling there
Obviously . Because they won't switch, not because they would be good.
I'm quite convinced that required skills are just not the same. I lol hard at every sc2-hater explaining how BW requires a 10,000 more skills when it's just not true. You just don't have to use APM on the same thing, SC2 is more about game-sense and mind games and less about mechanics than BW.
So, yeah.. half-trolling actually ^^
Have you played the game and gotten to at least D+ in BW? If not your argument is invalid.
"You just don't have to use APM on the same thing." Fun fact: BW pros can do everything SC2 pros can (strategy, builds, mind games, decision making) and most importantly keep up in mechanics. And with the easier mechanics I still see pros still float 1k + minerals in SC2.
Don't get me wrong, I love both games, both require skill, just that BW requires more skill due to mechanics.
He's also straw manning as nobody has said anything close to " BW requires a 10,000 more skills" in this thread. + Show Spoiler +
I wouldn't put it that way anyway =P Jaedong will switch to SC2 when Federer switches to bat tennis and Woods switches to putt putt XD
On October 19 2011 17:19 SolidMustard wrote: And then they're gonna switch and be terrible at SC2 ^^
hope you trolling there
Obviously . Because they won't switch, not because they would be good.
I'm quite convinced that required skills are just not the same. I lol hard at every sc2-hater explaining how BW requires a 10,000 more skills when it's just not true. You just don't have to use APM on the same thing, SC2 is more about game-sense and mind games and less about mechanics than BW.
So, yeah.. half-trolling actually ^^
Have you played the game and gotten to at least D+ in BW? If not your argument is invalid.
"You just don't have to use APM on the same thing." Fun fact: BW pros can do everything SC2 pros can (strategy, builds, mind games, decision making) and most importantly keep up in mechanics. And with the easier mechanics I still see pros still float 1k + minerals in SC2.
Don't get me wrong, I love both games, both require skill, just that BW requires more skill due to mechanics.
We have not seen anyone play SC2 mechanically perfectly yet, especially zerg. Not even close.
the sad thing is that top foreigners and b-teamers play much worse mechanically in sc2 than compared to their bw play, when they had to play mechanically, the ammount of "1a" among ex bw pros is shocking, honestly mechanical perfection will come into play in few years, nowadays strategic play and correct scouting wins the game not mechanics.
and im afraid that will be the trend for few years
On October 19 2011 17:19 SolidMustard wrote: And then they're gonna switch and be terrible at SC2 ^^
hope you trolling there
Obviously . Because they won't switch, not because they would be good.
I'm quite convinced that required skills are just not the same. I lol hard at every sc2-hater explaining how BW requires a 10,000 more skills when it's just not true. You just don't have to use APM on the same thing, SC2 is more about game-sense and mind games and less about mechanics than BW.
So, yeah.. half-trolling actually ^^
Have you played the game and gotten to at least D+ in BW? If not your argument is invalid.
"You just don't have to use APM on the same thing." Fun fact: BW pros can do everything SC2 pros can (strategy, builds, mind games, decision making) and most importantly keep up in mechanics. And with the easier mechanics I still see pros still float 1k + minerals in SC2.
Don't get me wrong, I love both games, both require skill, just that BW requires more skill due to mechanics.
He's also straw manning as nobody has said anything close to " BW requires a 10,000 more skills" in this thread. + Show Spoiler +
I wouldn't put it that way anyway =P Jaedong will switch to SC2 when Federer switches to bat tennis and Woods switches to putt putt XD
haha but putt putt is mean as man, way better than golf lol
On October 19 2011 22:34 Monkooli wrote: Why must every thread with BW, that interacts with SC2 start such a flamefest? Really disappointing. It's like, co-existing is impossible.
I'd blame blizzard for this. If it wasn't for that silly law suit they threw in, BW fans wouldn't be paranoid as shit like they are now.
On October 19 2011 09:12 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Doesn't anyone get bored of this "mine is better than yours" crap?
Why can't we just enjoy it for what it is and stop getting all offended if someone wants to see more of "x" game being played or more of "x" players playing "x" game.
Its so hard to find any real discussion on this interesting topic through the pages of horrifically biased and slanted arguments with no real end or basis in the first place.
BW is the best BW game that ever came out and SC2 is at best, 2nd place in terms of BW-likeness. Although, SC2 is the best SC2 game yet and BW, now lets be honest, is probably only 2nd best in terms of SC2-likeness. Now clearly if SC2 had more BW, it wouldn't really matter because as long as it was even 1% SC2, it would never reach pure BW, and thus be 2nd best BW. Same goes for BW gaining more SC2-ness.
So if BW is stuck being BW and SC2 is stuck being SC2, lets all agree that BW can not equal SC2, if and only if, SC2 is not equal to BW. Greater than or Less than is meaningless because its like saying "I have more apples then you have oranges so I am better....". No you don't, you just wasted all your money and time on buying more apples.
Ah who am I kidding, as angry as people get, I am sure they enjoy arguing whose game is better. Thinking of strategies and arguments to counter another persons..refining your pessimism for the other view points...editing responses to sound more sophisticated. Its the argument you enjoy, not the win.
You make the false assumption that SC2 could never pass up BW.
Which I believe SC2 WILL pass BW, because SC2 has already passed BW Internationally.
Plus, Blizzard has 2 more chances to perfect the game.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason. There's so much - too much - talk about how sc2 is a bad game that doesn't require any skill etc etc.
Ofcourse that's a huge generalization, but come on.. I always get the picture in my head of this old grumpy man in a rocking chair with a pipe in his mouth corner, whining about how it was so much better 'in his day', when men didn't sit infront of computers but instead went out in the woods to fight bears for food.
On October 19 2011 22:34 Monkooli wrote: Why must every thread with BW, that interacts with SC2 start such a flamefest? Really disappointing. It's like, co-existing is impossible.
Well BW fans can live without MVP or Nestea while SC2 fans can't live without Bisu and JD. That's your problem, man.
On October 19 2011 09:12 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Doesn't anyone get bored of this "mine is better than yours" crap?
Why can't we just enjoy it for what it is and stop getting all offended if someone wants to see more of "x" game being played or more of "x" players playing "x" game.
Its so hard to find any real discussion on this interesting topic through the pages of horrifically biased and slanted arguments with no real end or basis in the first place.
BW is the best BW game that ever came out and SC2 is at best, 2nd place in terms of BW-likeness. Although, SC2 is the best SC2 game yet and BW, now lets be honest, is probably only 2nd best in terms of SC2-likeness. Now clearly if SC2 had more BW, it wouldn't really matter because as long as it was even 1% SC2, it would never reach pure BW, and thus be 2nd best BW. Same goes for BW gaining more SC2-ness.
So if BW is stuck being BW and SC2 is stuck being SC2, lets all agree that BW can not equal SC2, if and only if, SC2 is not equal to BW. Greater than or Less than is meaningless because its like saying "I have more apples then you have oranges so I am better....". No you don't, you just wasted all your money and time on buying more apples.
Ah who am I kidding, as angry as people get, I am sure they enjoy arguing whose game is better. Thinking of strategies and arguments to counter another persons..refining your pessimism for the other view points...editing responses to sound more sophisticated. Its the argument you enjoy, not the win.
You make the false assumption that SC2 could never pass up BW.
Which I believe SC2 WILL pass BW, because SC2 has already passed BW Internationally.
Plus, Blizzard has 2 more chances to perfect the game.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
On October 19 2011 09:12 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Doesn't anyone get bored of this "mine is better than yours" crap?
Why can't we just enjoy it for what it is and stop getting all offended if someone wants to see more of "x" game being played or more of "x" players playing "x" game.
Its so hard to find any real discussion on this interesting topic through the pages of horrifically biased and slanted arguments with no real end or basis in the first place.
BW is the best BW game that ever came out and SC2 is at best, 2nd place in terms of BW-likeness. Although, SC2 is the best SC2 game yet and BW, now lets be honest, is probably only 2nd best in terms of SC2-likeness. Now clearly if SC2 had more BW, it wouldn't really matter because as long as it was even 1% SC2, it would never reach pure BW, and thus be 2nd best BW. Same goes for BW gaining more SC2-ness.
So if BW is stuck being BW and SC2 is stuck being SC2, lets all agree that BW can not equal SC2, if and only if, SC2 is not equal to BW. Greater than or Less than is meaningless because its like saying "I have more apples then you have oranges so I am better....". No you don't, you just wasted all your money and time on buying more apples.
Ah who am I kidding, as angry as people get, I am sure they enjoy arguing whose game is better. Thinking of strategies and arguments to counter another persons..refining your pessimism for the other view points...editing responses to sound more sophisticated. Its the argument you enjoy, not the win.
You make the false assumption that SC2 could never pass up BW.
Which I believe SC2 WILL pass BW, because SC2 has already passed BW Internationally.
Plus, Blizzard has 2 more chances to perfect the game.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason. There's so much - too much - talk about how sc2 is a bad game that doesn't require any skill etc etc.
Ofcourse that's a huge generalization, but come on.. I always get the picture in my head of this old grumpy man in a rocking chair with a pipe in his mouth corner, whining about how it was so much better 'in his day', when men didn't sit infront of computers but instead went out in the woods to fight bears for food.
You say "no good reason" and then in your next paragraph you go on to liken BW fans to grumpy old men reminiscing about bygone days. I'm sure that if anyone goes into the SC2 forums and starts calling SC2 fans a bunch of "ignorant 12 year-olds" (not that I think they are but just giving any example), several people are going to be annoyed to say the least. This is just common sense.
On October 19 2011 09:12 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Doesn't anyone get bored of this "mine is better than yours" crap?
Why can't we just enjoy it for what it is and stop getting all offended if someone wants to see more of "x" game being played or more of "x" players playing "x" game.
Its so hard to find any real discussion on this interesting topic through the pages of horrifically biased and slanted arguments with no real end or basis in the first place.
BW is the best BW game that ever came out and SC2 is at best, 2nd place in terms of BW-likeness. Although, SC2 is the best SC2 game yet and BW, now lets be honest, is probably only 2nd best in terms of SC2-likeness. Now clearly if SC2 had more BW, it wouldn't really matter because as long as it was even 1% SC2, it would never reach pure BW, and thus be 2nd best BW. Same goes for BW gaining more SC2-ness.
So if BW is stuck being BW and SC2 is stuck being SC2, lets all agree that BW can not equal SC2, if and only if, SC2 is not equal to BW. Greater than or Less than is meaningless because its like saying "I have more apples then you have oranges so I am better....". No you don't, you just wasted all your money and time on buying more apples.
Ah who am I kidding, as angry as people get, I am sure they enjoy arguing whose game is better. Thinking of strategies and arguments to counter another persons..refining your pessimism for the other view points...editing responses to sound more sophisticated. Its the argument you enjoy, not the win.
You make the false assumption that SC2 could never pass up BW.
Which I believe SC2 WILL pass BW, because SC2 has already passed BW Internationally.
Plus, Blizzard has 2 more chances to perfect the game.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason. There's so much - too much - talk about how sc2 is a bad game that doesn't require any skill etc etc.
Ofcourse that's a huge generalization, but come on.. I always get the picture in my head of this old grumpy man in a rocking chair with a pipe in his mouth corner, whining about how it was so much better 'in his day', when men didn't sit infront of computers but instead went out in the woods to fight bears for food.
How often do you hear BW fans saying shit like "God, why doesn't Bomber quit Sc2 and come play BW."
That's the difference man. We're not that into your game, and we have every right to be, just as you have every right not to be that into ours. However, we don't invade your forums and demand that your favorite players switch over. Can you at least understand why that might get people pissed off?
Also, that picture in your head is half the problem - BW isn't something that has happened - it's something that's still happening. Yeah, we're in the off season right now, but that happens every year. BW may be going through a rough patch in Korea, but so are all other Korean esports, and Sc2 certainly isn't the cause. For fucks sake, SotG a few weeks ago spent over an hour talking about BW, and most of that talk centered around an epic tournament finals that had just happened.
I don't think most BW fans want sc2 to die, we just want BW to live as well. I watch some sc2 (especially now when there isn't any BW on) and i have to admit it's gotten a hell of a lot better since it started, and i wish it all the best. However, every single time a BW thread gets noticed in the greater community (and even times when it doesn't) it gets bombarded with comments like "god BW needs to die already," and "why haven't these guys switched to where the real money is." And when we try and defend the game we love, or even just explain that most high level BW players make way more now than they would in Sc2, we get called "elitists," "old fogeys," and "reactionaries."
That's why we get so pissed off, because ignorant sc2 fans (not that all sc2 fans are ignorant) come into our house, shit on us and the game we love, and start to act defensive when we tell them why we think they're wrong.
If you don't want to hear BW fans' honest opinions on sc2, well, don't come into the BW forum.
EPT
