Ive tried to catch good players maphackers sometimes, now i've read totally how to use penguinplug and i understood it completely,
Penguin already proved that Lois hacked in that game, but i wasnt very convinced, so i downloaded 7 more replays of him just to make sure, And in all games there are some suspicious actions, but 1 game surprised me so much...
Many many suspicious actions, and all of them i found them at bwchart, and checked and he had no vision..
Here is the replay, taken from wgtour vs Mgz)Nookie which by the way have (H) flag but he didnt made any really suspicious moves..
I dont know the process for wgtour to detect a maphacker, but i do think that he deserves to be checked out.... if any of you know how to report him go ahead..
Seriously, any maphacker should be detected right away.
You know, if this is true its so fucking pathetic how hard people try to make people think they're gods at broodwar. I can only imagine how many of the "top" gamers use maphack. Don't they feel pathetic when they have to lie about cheating in a videogame? Virgins.
yea for some people this is gonna be really unfair 'cause SW)Lois got 3rd place and made to the finals... another player should have be there instead.... anyway i dont think wgtour will do anything to fix that..
nice post loloko2, but if you are going to post a proof to accuse someone, make it like a scientist : post the time, the action type and the target of the action, then add at least 2 screenshot of the exact location where the action happen, and copy bwchart text or an aditional bwchart screenshot.
If you say "there is many suspicious actions", you just sound like a politician that only say "there is many flaws" in this opponents ideas
You dont need "many suspicious actions", you need just 1 proof
I haven't read all your posts, I'm too lazy for..but..
I think they players from knowed(?) teams, have the preassure of have a nice game playing, whether using hack or not. I believe, if you're going to play for a good Team, you have to play honest, no hack, no sh!t, no things that make BW bad.
You dont need "many suspicious actions", you need just 1 proof
Look this comment from testie: ToT)Testie(rS ? BWScanner is not safe. I RANDOM zerg? He does this kind of build? Just watch the replay. There is a 1/3 chance i'm zerg. There is a 1/3 chance i'm on the island he lifts to. He scouted nothing and built an academy and firebats before even knowing my race. If you understand brood war, you'd understand this is not a viable strategy in any option, even for risky shit. This is beyond risk.
On May 09 2005 11:02 Attacke wrote: Look this comment from testie: ToT)Testie(rS ? BWScanner is not safe. I RANDOM zerg? He does this kind of build? Just watch the replay. There is a 1/3 chance i'm zerg. There is a 1/3 chance i'm on the island he lifts to. He scouted nothing and built an academy and firebats before even knowing my race. If you understand brood war, you'd understand this is not a viable strategy in any option, even for risky shit. This is beyond risk.
On May 09 2005 10:36 superpenguin wrote: nice post loloko2, but if you are going to post a proof to accuse someone, make it like a scientist : post the time, the action type and the target of the action, then add at least 2 screenshot of the exact location where the action happen, and copy bwchart text or an aditional bwchart screenshot.
If you say "there is many suspicious actions", you just sound like a politician that only say "there is many flaws" in this opponents ideas
You dont need "many suspicious actions", you need just 1 proof
kekekeke im too lazy...
anyway im sure theres 2-3 100% proof in that replay,
On May 09 2005 11:02 Attacke wrote: Look this comment from testie: ToT)Testie(rS ? BWScanner is not safe. I RANDOM zerg? He does this kind of build? Just watch the replay. There is a 1/3 chance i'm zerg. There is a 1/3 chance i'm on the island he lifts to. He scouted nothing and built an academy and firebats before even knowing my race. If you understand brood war, you'd understand this is not a viable strategy in any option, even for risky shit. This is beyond risk.
Testie really has a nack for finding maphackers. You can make as many "he should know kekeke" comments as you want, but he called it with Madcow and now with Lois, just on TLT ladder, and Testie doesn't throw around "he hacks" like other whinier top players (androide).
I just find it weird is all, seeing as his commenting about hacking is the only time he chooses to be conservative with his flaming.
imagine the influence it would of had on the entire tournament if he was banned before hand, a TOTALLY different draw and most likely the results would different, not nescerarily in top2 or top3 but in the top 8 for SURE :D
I was looking at LastGosu's profile on WGT and on the poll section, he voted to only give a hacker 1 chance, and banning the hacker forever once caught. I found that ironic.
I thought Madcow was hacking in a game I obsed of him. He cancelled Nexus as soon as he "felt" Rain's Dragoons, and maneuvered s Shuttle with a Dragoon and Reaver through the middle (Dragoon infested) and around the fat side (from which he came) of the base to avoid cannons. He lost that game.
good this bitchass deserves what he gets. he was so arrogant with all of his east fanboys and i definitely noticed a big change in skill of his, when he wwent from average noob to solid player.
On May 09 2005 15:55 Zabuza wrote: u wont see noobs hack any more, only good players
hehe , there was some deu-1 (traintoss) guy 2 weeks ago who asked me to watch a rep he had played vs another person in public , cause he thought the other guy hacks.
and i can 100% say that the other guy hacked , but his micro and macro was so far from being average that it was just ridiculous...
So hack is everywhere ...
but it is indeed sad how many good bw players get caught hacking T_T.
There is a cure. I play Counter-strike regularly in a very popular swedish fun-league, where they devised their own anti-cheat - a screenshot client. It takes a screenshot every few minutes and uploads to a server. Very little lag noticable when the screen is taken as well. Very good initiative. Called Final Proof btw.
Still, there was one retarded 15-year-old who tried to wallhack in spite of this, he got caught of course...
Also, it was interesting to note how a few clans kind of disappeared or became worse.
On May 09 2005 20:06 HowitZer wrote: I don't see what he did to look like a hacker from the replay that was posted. Anyone know what was suspicious because my untrained eyes missed it.
Please read all penguinplug bwac post... then you will understand.
I wouldnt know this shitty funny thing happen to me. but since i got Banned from WGT(WTF?) I had to write something say about it.
Firstble we both had BWScanner do you think both of us are that stupid not to check most basic thing ? It definitely helded by BWscanner ( Ask fucking BWS ownner and ask him to check Log on or IP adress im 100% fucking sure about it )
Second the game vs Testie was Random vs Terran not Zerg vs Terran. Personally think about terran's side. Random guy could be T , Z , P. I made first barrack on the side just for fly and land produce 1 manrine that way i can search very fast. ( Barrack has to be go back to base since he could be Z and can be go 12pool fast mutal ) Fast academi ? i needed fast scan to check other area to search what race he got !!! during producing 1 marine i saw his drones running to his expo. So i produce firebat since my academy was done. I admit its very suspicious. But if you think about Terran vs Random on Island map. nothing is suspicious Its very possible to happen! ( it was lucky for me to find him at once but i admit its very suspicious if that game was held by T v Z but main thing it was T vs R !!!!!!! ) If you are not a really such as a noob you can check the rep again and watch it by terran's side as Terran vs Random. not Terran vs Zerg so i guarentee nothing suspicious anymore about it.
And if you still say i hacked which helded my BWscanner game. then im gonna be the only 1 can use map hack with BWscanner. I dont think that makes any sense. really!!
secondable superpenguin ? im very sure you saw Testie vs My game at TLT final. and yes it can be very look suspicious so u can try to accused me as a hacker and try to find more proove on my TLT ladder games and congradurations u found couple(?) suspicious actions from 80 games.
I just want to say even legit player can produce suspicious actions during game. i know becuz i use BWchart very a lot. and i've seen very many suspicious actions from my games. ( Even Nada , Boxer , Iloveoov makes suspicious actions on BWchart )
you found some suspicious actions and accusing me 100% hacker ?
Plz Check TOP 32 other players TLT ladder games. ( I would prefer well known ex-hackers or some newbies who went top player by suddenly or even well known best non-korean zerg mondragon or fisheye ) and if you cant find nothing suspicious actions ? then I would very lovely say " I am only one has some suspicious actions~ so you can call me hacker ~ "
The reason that i lost in TL tourney, i had no time to practice for it. im very pissed i lost at TLT final becuz i had no time to practice ( especially on Isle Of Siren map. Other well known land maps i've been play couple times before. ) and i had to play it with my business computer at my work place which made for Print and Fax not SC. (Yes im making some excuses becuz its very true that I couldn't afforted my 100% skill. and i really expected my self to make some good record from TLT but sadly i failed )
Third thing to say I only played just 1 game on Isle of siren before TLT final with Sataerae-X17 at USEAST which is TvZ
I went rax engineering bay go +1 armor upgrade factory starport build. which i practiced for vs 88)control for my first tlt final match up. i went same thing to control but i lost.
which im saying is if you accuse me hack of game vs Testie thats really bull shit non-sense. If I was real hacker and if i knew he was Zerg and if i tried to make very suspicious actions, i shoulda choosen fast Engineering build which i practiced at least once. )
I really hate to write these threads that offense my self becuz i know its very ugly. but since you guys are accusing me 100% hacker and ban me from WGT i had to say my opinion.
P.S : WGT admins u cant just bann me without very certain proof like Madcow did. Just 2~3 guys say SW)Lois hacks look at TvZ vs Testie ( It was TvR ) oh replays looks very hacky! this is hacker! and other ppl just read thread and say Lois hack is very non-sense.
I understand you guys could thought i hack and try to catch me with technical way. again I really can understand becuz i hate hackers as much as you do.
But im very sad that you guys trying to treat me 100% hacker with the game vs testie and some suspicious actions.
Read my post and re think about it plz. Unban me from WGT plz. Im very confused embarrased and feeling sad pissed with it.
and additional im very sure im better then at least Testie. ( If I can practice maybe few week with my real computer at my house in New Jersey ) That well known Ex-Hacker try to pissing me very off. Even he won the game which i couldn't afforted my 100% skill. why dont you guys check Testie's TLT LADDER games the fact he beats great gamers often very easily without BWscanner and lost to Assem very easily with Bwscanner ( also lost to some clan wars held by WGT required BWscanner ) I know and I saw Assem was amazing. But Testie's Macro wasnt that shitty without BWscanner.
And 1 other fact he went 104-0 ? PGT season2 ? i didnt played PGT season2 but i saw Madcow got A- rank all of sudden from C- C C+ to B- B B+ A- ( Season 2 was very easy to get A- I can surely say even madcow got it )
And one more thing I've played PGT season 1 with aka Geun 160-130 record B+ high
I've played mostly korean gosus and unfamilliar maps like i havent played before (not like testie noob bashier)
And I got 5-5 ? record vs 3wD-Lamer (which is very decent non-korean terran) with my random some ZvT some PvT some TvT and very other A+ ranked korean gosus as well
and i went 57-7 record B- with LastGosu-X17 account end of season 1 with playing real skill.
Testie since you fucking pissed me off Im trying to revenge you faggot. I bet I can surely rape you with BW skill. ( If the game is held by PGT + Bwscanner + Penguin plug to make sure prevent you from hacking. I would easily rape your shitty macro ) and Testie you are Well known hacker you have no right to accuse manny other player as hacker be shame your self chobo !!
Lois, like i said on wgtour, i dont know for the game vs testie and i will probably never know, but what i can be sure is that you hacked in the game vs nookie that i explained in the following link http://www.starcraftdream.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4983 (it's not the one that is shown in this TL thread)
Sure there is suspicious action in everyones games, but everytime it's possible to know if they can be done by a legit player or if it's necessary to have a cheat program to do a particular suspicious action. If you can find a flaw in my explaination, and you could verify in a test game that both penguinplug and bwchart can be wrong at the same time and in this kind of situation (attack a nexus that you didnt saw since the last 30 seconds), then you would have my appoligies, but i would suggest you instead to try to become the president of the USA or to walk on the moon because it's easier.
More seriously, you should give your appologies, i'm sure theres many players that didnt deserved to play the unfair games you gave them. In addition, there were many player that deserved by thier skills the place you took by your maphack.
You definetly not read the original post of this thread not either superpenguin's...
Please go back, look at original posts, and you will see we are not talking about simple bwchart suspicious actions, we all know bwchart makes tons of errors in this kind of stuff, but BWAC doesn't....
Not trying to be mean , but you can still beg for H flag :-)
Seriously , if some admin of wgtour banned you... there should be more enough reason..considering that you are/were a 'Top' player.
I was very weak versusing protoss the fact you can check 70% or more lose by Protoss users.
Im even 3win 6lose vs 88)saddle which has 90-90 record. I really think Saddles is good im not trying to make him down. but another fact if i was hacker with good skill i bet i wouldnt lose to him like that.
PS: Im sry saddles if u felt bad about i wrote ur name down.
I do have bad grammar I am nervous I hasty writed. I blamed comunity since comunity treat me as well. Saying im better than testie becuz i really think so and since he BM to me.
i dunno, i know what it's like to be bashed by all when u really dont maphack 8(, it's anoyying as hell so i'll say to everyone don't say shit unless u really know for sure
O well C'mon superpenguin i read your post but plz you cant never say program can be make some mistakes. i really ask you plz check someother players if you try to find it it can be shown. and if you think somebody is 100% hacker above all there is no way to make you judge in right way
I have very certain skill to try out USA final 2005 and i have no reason to forfeit this year. I dont want have this such a very bad experience before great festival. I can very surely proove my self at USA final -_- you better keep ur eye on me
Im just very pissed embarrased about some posts you wrote and treat me as 100% hacker and spread it all over place.
As i told you Im very sure it must be reason i vs testie game to make u search all of my TLT ladder games. And now you say you dont see clearly map hack with testie vs my game.
Then why dont you try to find someother players. Im very sure if you keep your eye on to somebody you definetly will find manny serious suspicious actions like you picked of mine. if there is TOP 100 TLT players I bet 95 can be done some very suspicious actions at least once. ( maybe prooved by bwchart or penguin whatever )
I hate posting this. i hate make my self ugly with trying to post these threads. to defend my self out. but if i dont say anything , everyone will remind me as a forever hacker and will say im gone from this comunity becuz im very shamed about this. isnt it ?
and 1 more thing guys my average APM is over 300 which mean very busy. do you think its possible to check enemy's base look while what he try to do, watch mini map each time and make up to 300~400 max apm ? I click 2x 3x better then other players ( which can be more chance to make suspicious actions ) im the fastest handed TLT player. I kept my self busy all the games. just think about all the situation. not just 1~2 proof picked out!! from 80 games.....
having high apm has nothing to do with anything. you can get by with barely 100 apm and be one of the best in the world. if anything, getting 500 apm or whatever just proves you have the speed to scan the map while playing normally
On May 09 2005 11:02 Attacke wrote: Look this comment from testie: ToT)Testie(rS ? BWScanner is not safe. I RANDOM zerg? He does this kind of build? Just watch the replay. There is a 1/3 chance i'm zerg. There is a 1/3 chance i'm on the island he lifts to. He scouted nothing and built an academy and firebats before even knowing my race. If you understand brood war, you'd understand this is not a viable strategy in any option, even for risky shit. This is beyond risk.
i've made the same kind of comment before but it gets ignored because i'm not a good player. i think a lot of good players notice this kind of bullshit all the time (highly unlikely stuff in favor of some random asshole) but they don't bother to complain or say anything because they are too cynical or too used to it. hacking is a lot more common and accepted than people realise, period.
On May 09 2005 21:59 Wangsta wrote: having high apm has nothing to do with anything. you can get by with barely 100 apm and be one of the best in the world. if anything, getting 500 apm or whatever just proves you have the speed to scan the map while playing normally
Jesus christ don't derail this thread you faggot. Just becuase YOU have 100 APM doesn't mean that you have to bitch about people having APM. APM IS ACCEPTED NOT TO BE SKILL SHUT THE FUCK UP TROLL.
On May 09 2005 21:59 Wangsta wrote: having high apm has nothing to do with anything. you can get by with barely 100 apm and be one of the best in the world. if anything, getting 500 apm or whatever just proves you have the speed to scan the map while playing normally
Jesus christ don't derail this thread you faggot. Just becuase YOU have 100 APM doesn't mean that you have to bitch about people having APM. APM IS ACCEPTED NOT TO BE SKILL SHUT THE FUCK UP TROLL.
Get the stick out of your ass Exalted, nothing like that will ever bother you again.
Lokoko2, remember when I shot you down for your shitty advice about an "UNSTOPPABLE OMG ZERG RUSH" TvZ strat? Remember when I asked you for game? Looks like you realized that you suck at Broodwar as you never responded, and now the only way you can get rseponses from good gamers is to accuse them of maphack.
I'm not going to talk about definitive proof here about Lastgosu hacking, however, I do know that teamliquidians personally don't want new players to succeed if they can't and are very apt to jump on the bandwagon fallacy and leer and jest.
The only thing I can hope is that Lastgosu, like Testie is able to prove his skill is not only on the online world in the upcomming WCG. I must say, that possibility is pretty high - look at that xanga, "favorite bands, avril lavigne" profession: "profesionnal bw player" lolroflz.
On May 09 2005 21:51 lastgosu wrote: I click 2x 3x better then other players ( which can be more chance to make suspicious actions ) im the fastest handed TLT player. I kept my self busy all the games. just think about all the situation. not just 1~2 proof picked out!! from 80 games.....
APM average 322 Max APM 412
A small reminder here : We are not talking about suspicious actions in general, we are talking about 1 exact action, and i gave a good explainanation why this exact action could only be done by someone who is cheating. If you think i'm wrong, you have to denie that by explaining why it could be incorrect. It's not "a suspicious action", it's a particular action in a particular situation. If you can do it without cheating then you can probably walk on water too.
Talking about your APM is irrelevant. As long as there is a proof against you, you cant argue about your pretended innocence with only some very subjective comments.
And you cant say "i'm not the only one, check other player please". i did checked many many games, not just yours, and i realy belive that after madcow was excluded you were the only cheater left in the top 43 after over 100 replays checked. Contrary to what you can think, i didnt based my decision to check your replays from the game you played vs testie.
so what you saying i still hack ? what if i didnt hack ? my game vs nookie ? what the fuck are you gonna say if i wasnt hack ? just one sorry ? after make a player fuckin pissed off like this ??
I just wanna mention what if you treat like this even you didnt do any certain wrong ? nobody has 500 apm i bet no one got caught with map hack around 300+ apm. <- this im not defending my self not hacker becuz i have fast apm.
manny ex-hackers caught with around 80~190 apm i definitely sure about this. ( macro microing except watch enemy's action through )
If you can reach 322 apm average and if you can still watch enemy's action and play then tell me its possible to do. ( which means sometimes 398 apm 365 apm 313 apm 348 apm )
one other fucking fact. if i was certain hack i would never go 2 tank drop where 2 goons were stand by and even i did with hack i woulda shown very expected micro kill 2 goon easily with 2 tank and kill manny probies then have big advantage of game to win. another fact if i was hack i would go very opposite build of enemy and take very big advantage from begin. am i talking wrong ?
and during TLT ladder season i had play vs rS.Cypress man my Zerg vs his random zerg he went fast 9 pool speed at Luna I went 12 hat -> gas -> pool. I died to his sunken + zerggling fast rush even before my pool complete. 2min sad game. ask rS.Cypress im talking shit or its true. If i was hack why i would made those shit games ? its just ton of prooves to protect my self. ( I definitely remember this game. becuz he asked some admin to give manual game vs me and he uploaded some other PvZ rep played by Nation War USA A vs USA B )
1 suspicious action ? make 100% proof of hack ? Im very sad pissed of it.
I just wanna know what do you gonna do superpenguin if im legit player ?
with your 1 proof you accused me 100% hacker and spread everywhere to kick me out of BW community ? If maybe in the future If i get my suspect off. you just gonna say "Sry I was wrong" 1 word ? after taking a person down top to bottom ?
Agreed with superpenguin, since BWAC came out, i've checked around 70 TLT replays, not a single real proof except your game.... Exalted 3 points. 1.- I never said it was an unbeatable strategy, it was a "Cheese" 2.-I did respond to your comment go look back and check it out. 3.-Im not going to read or quote/reply to any of your posts anymore, good luck, and like i saidm you should really take a look at your ass
On May 09 2005 21:06 Hot77.iEy wrote: ASDFDFSAFS :ASDFSDAF :DDD Your so funny. <----YOU'RE when talking about someone doing something, you are so funny, you're.
Bad grammar. Nervous, hasty writing. Blaming the community. Saying his better than everyone else. Relating to Testie.
On May 09 2005 22:17 exalted wrote: Lokoko2, remember when I shot you down for your shitty advice about an "UNSTOPPABLE OMG ZERG RUSH" TvZ strat? Remember when I asked you for game? Looks like you realized that you suck at Broodwar as you never responded, and now the only way you can get rseponses from good gamers is to accuse them of maphack.
I'm not going to talk about definitive proof here about Lastgosu hacking, however, I do know that teamliquidians personally don't want new players to succeed if they can't and are very apt to jump on the bandwagon fallacy and leer and jest.
The only thing I can hope is that Lastgosu, like Testie is able to prove his skill is not only on the online world in the upcomming WCG. I must say, that possibility is pretty high - look at that xanga, "favorite bands, avril lavigne" profession: "profesionnal bw player" lolroflz.
I will prove my self in 2005 WCG USA final -_- so just keep your eye on me. I dont see any big competite if i practice enough i can handle my self to USA final. and i ask you to dont make fun of someone's personal profile unless you know me well. that feel sucks. If I've been USA final 2004 you wouldnt gonna said it ( prove skill in offline ) I was qualified 2004 WCG USA final. But i forfeit for some reason ( job in real life )
On May 09 2005 21:51 lastgosu wrote: I click 2x 3x better then other players ( which can be more chance to make suspicious actions ) im the fastest handed TLT player. I kept my self busy all the games. just think about all the situation. not just 1~2 proof picked out!! from 80 games.....
APM average 322 Max APM 412
A small reminder here : We are not talking about suspicious actions in general, we are talking about 1 exact action, and i gave a good explainanation why this exact action could only be done by someone who is cheating. If you think i'm wrong, you have to denie that by explaining why it could be incorrect. It's not "a suspicious action", it's a particular action in a particular situation. If you can do it without cheating then you can probably walk on water too.
Talking about your APM is irrelevant. As long as there is a proof against you, you cant argue about your pretended innocence with only some very subjective comments.
And you cant say "i'm not the only one, check other player please". i did checked many many games, not just yours, and i realy belive that after madcow was excluded you were the only cheater left in the top 43 after over 100 replays checked. Contrary to what you can think, i didnt based my decision to check your replays from the game you played vs testie.
You checked many other games ? and you didnt find any proof ? none ? except madcow ? what if i spend my time to find some exact <- suspicious actions as you said ? If i can will you leave from this BW community ? if no that prooves you didnt check any reps i guarentee. otherwise say Yes! You will leave if i find some certain "ExAcT" action as you said. Bet it ! Im ready to search !
There can be fucking more Exact actions if im certain hacker go find couple more then im gonna shut my mouse otherwise i dont want see you post anymore.
you did ? you searched ? many other players and many many games ? Im very sure this is Bull shit.
What if i find some exact action from well known legit gosu Mondi , Fisheye and manny others you gonna bann them? like just did to me ?
i dont wanna argue about it any longer. you are very talented and suceeded to pissing me off. i cant even laugh either cry about this seriously im fucking sad of this community.
it doesn't take much to see what he is saying bob - it just takes a bit of commonsense and patience. The guy is very emotional at the moment - as anyone would be if they were accused of hack and didn't hack (not saying he didn't - i'm open to either option) but he is definately very emotional about it and is grasp of written english is obvious not complete. Therefore give the kid a bit of a break. Everyone else should also settle down a bit and stop being so nasty to the guy. making fun of his photo is not very nice either.
On May 09 2005 22:57 lastgosu wrote: i dont wanna argue about it any longer. you are very talented and suceeded to pissing me off. i cant even laugh either cry about this seriously im fucking sad of this community.
is english your first language?
I don't think you are understanding what they are saying. At 15:04, you select Nookies Nexus. You cannot see his nexus. You have not scouted it. We are not saying this is 'suspicious'. We are saying that that is impossible. How can you select a building thats not in your field of vision?
If you can find us a rep of anyone else, famous or not, where they manually select a building that they cannot see, we will not retract calling you a hacker, we will simply add whoever you caught hacking to the hacker list.
Please calm down and take a moment to read their posts. *You selected a building you cannot see*. No matter how fast you are clicking, the program of Brood War does not allow you to select buildings that are unscouted on the map. The only way that that is possible is through map hacks.
That is why they are accusing you of 100% proof.
edit - the exact time "15:04" was just a random time that i picked to illustrate my point cause i do not care enough to watch the replay.
On May 09 2005 22:41 lastgosu wrote: You checked many other games ? and you didnt find any proof ? none ? except madcow ? what if i spend my time to find some exact <- suspicious actions as you said ? If i can will you leave from this BW community ?
(...)
What if i find some exact action from well known legit gosu Mondi , Fisheye and manny others you gonna bann them? like just did to me ?
Eheh, you can try but if you follow the method i commented, taking in account borderline cases and checking if the replay is not corrupted by watching it until the end, then you will never get an proof that can be used to accuse a legit player in a non-explainable way. But anyway, from what i have read earlyer, i'm sure you will come out with borderline case, since you didnt realy understand the method. It's not enough to see the message, you have to analyse.
If you check with bwchart + penguinplug/bwac + your eyes open on the x1 replay to know if there wasnt visibility 3 seconds before + the action is one of the 3 : "select, target, move on" + the replay is not corrupted, then you will find nothing more than some cheaters.
And no i will not leave the SC communauty for whatever reason you can imagine, isnt there enough people leaving already ?
OT: How do you enumerate the different players to obs in the replay with PP? I can turn on bwac from PP, but it don't do anything.. What are the keys to select different players? Readme don't say anything.. hmm
On May 09 2005 23:11 Amnesty wrote: OT: How do you enumerate the different players to obs in the replay with PP? I can turn on bwac from PP, but it don't do anything.. What are the keys to select different players? Readme don't say anything.. hmm
bwac is not pp, it's different, bwac doesnt show what other are doing, it just show the suspicious actions if there are some.
Hmm , i watched a replay and yes, there is a suspicion in this replay vs nookie. Lastgosu, we all a know that you can hack "smartly" if we can say that, i mean withtout clicking on target you canno't. I'm also not really convinced by tour argument of: "The suspicion action i did, anyone did it at least once" So i picked 5 tlt replays of players like testie, anon, ret and so on and i found 0 suspicious actions. You cannot find yourself innocent saying others are guilty too-> nonsense. When you say "my 300 apm is too hight to give me the time to obs the map", i just answer it is mainly the reason you have been able to hack, you go fastso you can watch the map and keep your pace in the game at the same time. I don't accuse you of hack, i am not a specialist at it but a lot of proofs and your behaviour play against you for sure. According to my presonal point of view, you hacked, maybe just once, and you try to save your honor, i don't know, just my personal point of view. And people that make fun of you are just stupid, they think hacker -> nolife-> ridiculous, but they are at least as no life as we can be so... I bet the pics of some of them are really hilarious.
Anyway, to defend yourself, explain how you have selected this nexus withourt obsing it and admit or proof that you re not a hacker. You can also find a replay where the same situation occurs and where there were 100% no hack.
i'm confused - the two reps the one which was posted by loloko and the one by penguinman - which are both different reps - neither of them show any suspicious actions within bwchart. Yet bwchart is always so "loose" with what it calls a suspicious action - that even something which is marginal will be pinged. Why would these "100%" hack not show up in bwchart? thanks for helping me...
On May 09 2005 22:59 Verbloten wrote: it doesn't take much to see what he is saying bob - it just takes a bit of commonsense and patience. The guy is very emotional at the moment - as anyone would be if they were accused of hack and didn't hack (not saying he didn't - i'm open to either option) but he is definately very emotional about it and is grasp of written english is obvious not complete. Therefore give the kid a bit of a break. Everyone else should also settle down a bit and stop being so nasty to the guy. making fun of his photo is not very nice either.
If he did MH, he deserves everything that is sent his way.
lol if you can have a 300apm naturally it would take even less time to look at their base right? -.- and btw, the thing about proof is that its 100% accurate. the fact that you are saying only 1 proof is stupid. also any1 who played wcg usa online last year knows you hacked through it.
i hate hackers probably as much as the next guy, but an even greater crime is accusing someone innocent of hacking without definitive proof.
in the replay lolok provided, i just don't see definitive proof... if anything, i see evidence that lastgosu is NOT a hacker -- he has to scan for tanks to siege nexus on higher ground b/c he doesn't have vision... wouldn't a hacker just automatically start sieging up the cliff? (unless he was spamming "stop," scanned, then allowed for siege tank to attack, then spammed "stop" again at exactly the right moment for the scan to wear off, all to avoid getting caught <-- an unlikely scenario -_-;
"suspicious actions" detected by bwchart are not reliable at all (unless you accusers are talking about something else)
so unless there's something more definite that i'm missing, "suspicion" doesn't equate proof
if lastgosu does turn out to be a hacker, he will be soundly ridiculed for his posts in this thread and i will be the first to deride him. however, i think it's completely unfair and jumping to conclusions to accuse him of hacking as is... and making fun of his english and his looks or whatever is just plain childish.
lastgosu, if you're not a hacker, sometimes, being falsely accused of hacking is the ultimate compliment :D
On May 10 2005 01:35 uhjoo wrote: in the replay lolok provided, i just don't see definitive proof... if anything, i see evidence that lastgosu is NOT a hacker -- he has to scan for tanks to siege nexus on higher ground b/c he doesn't have vision... wouldn't a hacker just automatically start sieging up the cliff? (unless he was spamming "stop," scanned, then allowed for siege tank to attack, then spammed "stop" again at exactly the right moment for the scan to wear off, all to avoid getting caught <-- an unlikely scenario -_-;
That's not a proof. If he hacked, or not hacked, either way, the tanks cannot attack something in the "fog of war"
No, hacking does not give you extra vision. You can see the map with hacking, but your units can't. Hackers still need to scan so that their tanks will be able to shoot farther.
"suspicious actions" detected by bwchart are not reliable at all (unless you accusers are talking about something else)
We all know that suspicious actions does not = hack. You missed the point completely. There are many suspicious actions in every game, some are legitimate, some can only be done because of hack. Read the tutorial: http://www.starcraftdream.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4983
After reading the tutorial, you'll understand that the suspicious action caused at this instance is only possible with hack. It is not possible otherwise.
No, hacking does not give you extra vision. You can see the map with hacking, but your units can't. Hackers still need to scan so that their tanks will be able to shoot farther.
"suspicious actions" detected by bwchart are not reliable at all (unless you accusers are talking about something else)
We all know that suspicious actions does not = hack. You missed the point completely. There are many suspicious actions in every game, some are legitimate, some can only be done because of hack. Read the tutorial: http://www.starcraftdream.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4983
After reading the tutorial, you'll understand that the suspicious action caused at this instance is only possible with hack. It is not possible otherwise.
k
i've never hacked, ever even seen a maphack program, or done a huntdown of a hacker so i admit i'm completely clueless in this regard
just that so many things don't add up T.T
why would lastgosu post here if he's definitely caught with his pants down? that just seems like adding fuel to the fire, and sheer idiocy if indeed he is a hacker... and his play as seen in replays seems to me to just be the play of a good player o_o in the game with testie, i don't see evidence of hack either
i soooo wish a definitive hack detection program were available
is it possible he just hacked vs nookie because his ego wouldnt allow him to lose to him? (from my limited experience with clan x17 on east all usa players seem to hate each other and have flame wars about who has the higher skill:p) this would also explain his defensiveness because he feels he shouldnt be treated like a hacker when he only did it the couple of times (obviously he cant actually say this so why not deny hacking at all because it's closer to the truth than hacking every game)
No, hacking does not give you extra vision. You can see the map with hacking, but your units can't. Hackers still need to scan so that their tanks will be able to shoot farther.
"suspicious actions" detected by bwchart are not reliable at all (unless you accusers are talking about something else)
We all know that suspicious actions does not = hack. You missed the point completely. There are many suspicious actions in every game, some are legitimate, some can only be done because of hack. Read the tutorial: http://www.starcraftdream.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4983
After reading the tutorial, you'll understand that the suspicious action caused at this instance is only possible with hack. It is not possible otherwise.
k
i've never hacked, ever even seen a maphack program, or done a huntdown of a hacker so i admit i'm completely clueless in this regard
just that so many things don't add up T.T
why would lastgosu post here if he's definitely caught with his pants down? that just seems like adding fuel to the fire, and sheer idiocy if indeed he is a hacker... and his play as seen in replays seems to me to just be the play of a good player o_o in the game with testie, i don't see evidence of hack either
i soooo wish a definitive hack detection program were available
Nah, he's definitely not posting here to add fuel to the fire. He's posting here to achieve sympathy and try to convince others that he doesn't hack...which is something thay many would also do under the same situation.
What was proven so far is definite detection. I have been using the old BWAC program back since the days when Lasgo released it some half a year ago in conjunction with BWChart and have never witness any errors (also may I add that the old BWAC is prone to give errors to inexperienced users. Penguinplug does a much better job). There is absolutely no way that this action can be replicated without the use of hack. If you take any known Korean progamers replays and analyze them with BWAC+BWchart, you will never detect any instance of hack. Period. This action is only possible with the use of hack as far as I know and as penguin also claimed.
On May 10 2005 02:56 TreK[cF] wrote: its not like lois did anything but bunkerrush with his high apm anyways -.-V
Lastgosus words of wisdom:
"do you think its possible to check enemy's base look while what he try to do, watch mini map each time and make up to 300~400 max apm ?"
My analysis: His high apm was just a cover. He felt he had to boost his apm with around 300% in order to look gosu even when he wasnt. He clearly has no understanding of WHY its good to have high apm..
lastgosu, please stfu, it's not about fucking suspiscious actions so keep that word out of your mouth. You did one action which cannot be explained by any other fucking way than maphack. So stop saying you didn't maphack.
and other people should defend penguinplug more cuz this lastgosu guy has no clue wtf he is talking about but he rambles up huge fucking posts of bullshit which only say 'i made on suspiscious wtf wtf wtf this isnt hack !' and it actually seems to make people think it's possible he didnt hack lol.
After reading 6 pages the only thing I'm pretty sure that english is not lastgosu first language and that he hacked.
Lastgosu if you can't understand english clearly we can translate it to you, you didn't a suspicious action, you did an IMPOSSIBLE action. You hacked. Why don't recognize it and say "sorry, I won't do it anymore"? It will be smarter IMO
im not defending or anything..but just because 1 program said he did an impossible action, doesnt actually prove he did it. it could be a program set to accuse and 'prove' everyone of hacking!! unless it was tested with one guy hacking and stuff then id be looking like an idiot right now...
For my experience with Lasgos bwac i can say it was 100% right everytime i checked if someone hacked if the replay was clean and not corrupted..So in the game Lois vs Nookie when it said that Lois clicked on Nookies nexus its 100% proof of hacking if not the rep was corrupted..
On May 10 2005 04:08 [Random]Digen wrote: im not defending or anything..but just because 1 program said he did an impossible action, doesnt actually prove he did it. it could be a program set to accuse and 'prove' everyone of hacking!! unless it was tested with one guy hacking and stuff then id be looking like an idiot right now...
that's why its possible to check the proof completely with 2 different programs : bwchart or penguinplug. It's more conveniant to use penguinplug to find the proof, but you can understand and validate it with only bwchart + watching the replay.
His high APM could be the reason for something like this. Maybe some sort of glitch? I'm going to study this "proof" 100% to make sure. A player of Lois's skill probably wouldn't lose to Nooks with a maphack. We'll see though. There are about 10~15 replays of Lois losing or getting fucked over by cheese. I don't know many maphackers with 340+ APM that would get fucked over by that. :O
On May 09 2005 11:02 Attacke wrote: Look this comment from testie: ToT)Testie(rS ? BWScanner is not safe. I RANDOM zerg? He does this kind of build? Just watch the replay. There is a 1/3 chance i'm zerg. There is a 1/3 chance i'm on the island he lifts to. He scouted nothing and built an academy and firebats before even knowing my race. If you understand brood war, you'd understand this is not a viable strategy in any option, even for risky shit. This is beyond risk.
I don't think that this strat is a complete proof of a hacker. He floated his rax in the most "natural direction", landed it and trained a marine, which is not unreasonable (scouting purposes), saw drones being transfered passing by, then trained a firebat.
But yeah going academy on this map is very weird...
I don't think there's anything weird about making academy immediately after rax finishes on isle maps vs random.
on gorky I make acad immediately after rax finishes even against picked terran. I've also successfully used dual rax float in 1v1 tourneys on dire straits in games where I felt I had less than a 33% chance of winning through playing straight up. I don't know anything about the technical proof and I can't refute that nor do I know if I want to, a suddenly up and coming player who has never performed live hacking wouldn't surprise me at all..
but the game vs testie really doesn't show anything imo.
i think testie's ability to detect hacks is beyond strategical analysis. i believe it has more to do with his ability to sense a person's style, and his knowledge on how a hack would effect style. of course hard evidence is needed for proof, but i wouldnt be too quick to judge testie's hack detection with simple straight analysis
Haha, this thread is hilarious. Lastgosu's replies really had me laughing out loud (and not just because of his English).
It's been said a few times before here, but superpenguin did actually *prove* he was hacking. His method was perfectly sound. This means there is NO doubt whatsoever: that kid was hacking in that game. There are no glitches or whatever and his excuses aren't even coherent.
I don't care if he lost to cheese a few games in TLT, maybe he just wasn't hacking all the time or maybe he was pulling stuff like that exactly to *not* look like a hacker. (Exactly like he was saying in his posts: "would a hacker do this and this and that?").
If you're still sticking up for lastgosu or if you're not sure, you just don't understand superpenguin's method for catching hackers. I suggest you read his thread about it reaaaally thoroughly.
I have watched the replays and i don't see a hacker playing at all. Everything looks totally fine except for that one moment at 10:32 or whenever it was - when he selected the Nexus (or move on..) the nexus where he definately didn't have vision. But i think you people need to understand that you are taking penguins word for it that his programming of this bwac is 100% sound.
For example - correct me if i am wrong - but each of the objects in the game are given a number. What if his programming has taken this number and read it as a nexus when in fact it was a nearby dragoon or even one of his own tanks? etc.
The guy just plainly does not play like a hacker would. Why would he move a lot of his forces straight into a massive 3 control group lot of opponent forces etc. This is just not right. He does not look Suss to me at all. I think you should all be bloody careful.
The message shown on the screen in bwac saying "lois moved on nexus of nookie" is created by penguins programming logic - it is not actually written like that in the .rep file! Also correct me if i am wrong - but bwchart's logic does not show this as even "suspicious". Why on earth not? It does for every other "close encounter" of a select vs available vision....
I'm responsible for bringing to justice a handful of players over time with tools such as bwac/lasgo op3/bwtv/bwchart so trust me - i'm not trying to help a hacker out - but i do believe in fair play and even though i have found people and got them life bans before for similar incidents - i just don't feel right about this one. It just doesn't gel for me. It's one crazy select and yes it can't be explained (except for programming logic problem) but look at the bigger picture - it just doesn't sound right.
The hackers i have caught in the past with tools such as this - it was clear because they would do one click in fog in several games or 2 or more in the one game. But they would also show very clear hacking by avoiding situations and drops etc etc. Look me up in the hacker hall of fame thingy that they have over at wgtour if you don't believe my experience with this.
I don't think i can do anything but this - and i hope that this makes people have a bit of a think and look a bit further before swearing 100% proof. If i am wrong then Lois deserves all the ridicule in the world - but if i am right then all of you deserve a big kick up the arse for being such arseholes.
BWChart does detection of what units are. This is done by checking what the unit does, I believe.... In this case, Nexus is selected, Probe is told to build. That's why you can't tell the difference between Firebat and Marine (all they do is move, attack, etc. and stim). Due to the fact that it makes a Probe, you can identify it as a Nexus. If you desired, you could figure out where the coordinates are by some experimentation--I think you'll find it's where that Nexus is
On May 10 2005 06:03 Verbloten wrote: For example - correct me if i am wrong - but each of the objects in the game are given a number. What if his programming has taken this number and read it as a nexus when in fact it was a nearby dragoon or even one of his own tanks? etc.
that's why i tell you to check with bwchart. it's identified by both bwchart and penguinplug as the nexus with the object id : 3552.
Even if you think they are both wrong, check what nookie do imediately after selecting this object :
he select the object, set the rally point, and train a probe. How could nookie train a prob if it wasnt his own nexus ?
If you realy dont belive me, make a test game with exactly the same map, and check the coordinates, the number in bwchart like (x, y) for every action, you will see it's at the location on this nexus.
The message shown on the screen in bwac saying "lois moved on nexus of nookie" is created by penguins programming logic - it is not actually written like that in the .rep file!
It's not far from what is in the rep file and also what is sent as a command by starcraft internaly. The repfile is only the map + the list of actions. For a "target" action, it's stored in the replay in this way (after beeing uncompressed) : - 1 byte : the player that do the action - 2 bytes : the x position - 2 bytes : the y position - 2 bytes : the targeted unit id (0 = on ground) - 2 bytes : the attack type
If one action is wrong, it cant go un-noticed because all the rest of the replay is completely corrupted and all units stay there doing nothing.
Also correct me if i am wrong - but bwchart's logic does not show this as even "suspicious". Why on earth not? It does for every other "close encounter" of a select vs available vision....
Bwchart doesnt have the in-game data, it just have the list of actions, the advantage is that it's a standalone program. The drawback are : - It make more false suspicious because it cant know at all if something is visible or not. PenguinPlug use the game engine to determine what is under fog of war or not, and avoid many false suspicious actions. - bwchart only works for "select" actions, penguinplug work also for target and move on - It cant know directly what an unit is and must guess from what is produced on them. It can miss some valid suspicious actions : if your enemy do something on a pylone, it will never be identified as suspicious by bwchart because pylones produce nothing
Of course it only change what actions are considered as suspicious, but if you see the full action list, the action detected in penguinplug will at least appear in bwchart.
But they would also show very clear hacking by avoiding situations and drops etc etc.
Sorry if i dont like too much the subjective idea... people can always argue that theres some unpredictable things or coincidences. And i rather have just 1 proof that is perfect rather than many select actions that are not explained and screenshooted.
If someone want to do the same analyse that i did, take the 2nd replay presented here and you have the materials
Btw, thanx insane, he also have an accurate explaination that i didnt saw before i started to write this
after all this time, how can ppl still be so stupid that they actually SELECT buildings in fog of war ? id imagine after the bwchart revolution "us hackers" would have learned a lesson ?
On May 10 2005 10:07 TreK[cF] wrote: after all this time, how can ppl still be so stupid that they actually SELECT buildings in fog of war ? id imagine after the bwchart revolution "us hackers" would have learned a lesson ?
There are maphacks that won't let you select stuff under fog of war (protecting the users against their own retardation). I think this was the case for Lois' maphack as well, but he targeted the nexus instead of selecting it, something his maphack didn't prevent I guess.
On May 10 2005 10:07 TreK[cF] wrote: after all this time, how can ppl still be so stupid that they actually SELECT buildings in fog of war ? id imagine after the bwchart revolution "us hackers" would have learned a lesson ?
There are maphacks that won't let you select stuff under fog of war (protecting the users against their own retardation). I think this was the case for Lois' maphack as well, but he targeted the nexus instead of selecting it, something his maphack didn't prevent I guess.
soon the maphack will filt this kind of action too not?
You can select a geyser under fog of war or minerals and see a yellow selection circle made, however its not recorded as selecting the mins/geyser, or buildings for that matter. Although it looks like it selects it, it really selects the ground under it in all cases.
Im not gonna bother d/ling a MH to test the other case, but we can deduct if its impossible to select or "move on target" legitly, when someone does it, it must be because of a hack.
Louis, can you email TravelToAuir your maphack so he can update BwScanner? Thanks.
On May 10 2005 10:07 TreK[cF] wrote: after all this time, how can ppl still be so stupid that they actually SELECT buildings in fog of war ? id imagine after the bwchart revolution "us hackers" would have learned a lesson ?
There are maphacks that won't let you select stuff under fog of war (protecting the users against their own retardation). I think this was the case for Lois' maphack as well, but he targeted the nexus instead of selecting it, something his maphack didn't prevent I guess.
i was wondering about that. wasn't this game played with bwscaner on? doesn't that mean that the hack would have to be some supreme hack that he made or something and if he was capable of making that kind of hack wouldn't he be able to cover up that kind of stuff. I'll admit i havn't seen the replay yet so i can't say for that particular game or not if i beleive he was hacking. However i've seen a lot of other games that he's palyed and he does stuff that hackers wouldn't do. It just doesn't add up to me. I don't think people shuold live by programs and trust in them 100%. I'll watch the replay and give my feedback later
Elvin, I think there are already maphacks that can prevent those clicks too.
And SojT, dunno if it was played on BWS but it's not 100% safe anyway.. Just doesn't detect all hacks. PGT and BWS both try really hard to keep updated though, they're doing a good job.
On May 10 2005 11:05 Amnesty wrote: Yah i tested it, its 100%
You can select a geyser under fog of war or minerals and see a yellow selection circle made, however its not recorded as selecting the mins/geyser, or buildings for that matter. Although it looks like it selects it, it really selects the ground under it in all cases.
Im not gonna bother d/ling a MH to test the other case, but we can deduct if its impossible to select or "move on target" legitly, when someone does it, it must be because of a hack.
Louis, can you email TravelToAuir your maphack so he can update BwScanner? Thanks.
I played 80 games in TLT ladder game. i bet you searched all my 80 games. and you found nothing else but 1 error that stupid ridiculous attacking nexus without vision which is impossible ?
if you think im real hacker you should find some more real proof and im really sure you can find couple more easily if im real hacker.
I dont have fucking idea how BWchart or penguin recorded attack nexus during game without vision but its the fact that can be very some error by those programs. ( And If I had total no vision of his Nexus ever! and if i had Black Fog on and i clicked without seen his nexus at all, then you could say 100% proof of hack. otherwise i demand you to find some more 100% proof of hack )
And btw It doesnt matter Im good or I suck ? but fact is i hacked ? so banned? do you think Im way suck to lose to Madcow 10-7 ? with map hack ? or lose to anyother people who has very bad stats? I dont hack but I only hacked vs Nookie ? just one game ? C'mon its total dont make any sense.
At begin you all said i hack vs Testie with BWScanner and now you say i hacked only 1 game vs MgZ)Nookie.
And even if i am hacker I would give much more try to use map hack at the TLT FINAL. LADDER is not mean at all even you get TOP 1 or TOP 32 its same. isnt it make more sense ?
so find some more proof at my TLT final game and tell me if you can find some shitty proof there. then post it.
I lost to players 1-2 vs 88)control , 0-1 Testie <- Is it possible to happen with using Godly Map hack that only i have own? undetectable map hack with BWscanner? thats bull shit.
If I had beat everyone in TLT final and if I caught with several Proof of I hack. I would run away. But saying I am hacker but i didnt hack at TLT final but i only did vs MgZ)Nookie once! This is very non-sense. -_- If you have brain think about it.
and btw Everyone know I hacked 2004 WCG onlinie prelinary ? C'mon get the fucking proof before you mention it and who is everyone that said i hack ? Maybe Its only you. You are some faggot dont want see some new rising gosu show up.
Im very well knowned USEAST player at clan x17. ( since 2003 winter ) which is very sensitive against map hackers or cheaters. not even 1 mentioned i hack until now.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHHHHhhhh. Lastgosu, at this point no one has to prove anything more than what's already been found to say you hacked in every single game you've ever played. No one cares at that - considering you're still a hacker whether you maphacked every game you played or one.
I played several games against LastGosu from east server, and from the games that I played against him (like 6-7 games), he never once map hacked.
I think im 6-2 or 6-3 against lastgosu, i have most of the replays and i looked through them, and I can tell you 100% that he does not map hack.
I actually know a lot about lastgosu because of his old AKA. I was in the same clan as him (KTF.sG)
5-6 years ago he use to be a semi pro gamer in korea. His ID was KTF.sG)sO.Oz
He was really famous in the korean starcraft community because he was able to get rank 1 on gamei (the original one). This is s really big accomplishment considering how competive it was back then. However, he was caught map hacking by the starrcfat community and there was a huge fight on ygclan.com. In one of his games against junwi_[saM] on gamei, he never once used a scanner during the 30-40minute game which is really funny considering he was #1 ranked gamei player at the time. So he was caught map hacking.... but nonetheless his accomplishment as #1 ranked on gamei is impressive... even if he did it with map hack.
So after that incident, he quit starcraft for couple of years. Then he decided to return... and become a member of the english starcrfat community. He started playing on east server with ID: Lastgosu like many of you know. People learned how good he was quickly.... but during this period... he didnt map hack. I know this because I played him several games. his TvZ is actually very weak compared to other good Terran players. However, I could tell he was trying to become good by not map hacking because in a lof of the games I played against him, it was obvious he didnt map hack. Dont get me wrong guys, he is a good player.... even if he dont use map hack.
But I think that money corrupted him when he was playing in TLT. He wanted to win the money... because it was a huge cash prize.... and he knew he was pro gamer level with it. Even though he is good, he wanted to be confident and be able to win that money.
At this point im not sure if he maphacked or not... but the truth is...although he does have a history of map hack.... he is still a good player without it. He may not be the best... buit he is a decent player in USA. If he did map hack, i think it was only because of money.
i wouldn't base all accusation on BWAC or BWChart on w/e the program you use. The only GOOD reliable "anti-hack" was Lasgo's Observer Pack. If a proof doesn't come from this program, then I don't trust it.
Those two programs make a lot of mistakes. I've seen him play on east, and I didn't think his play was suspicious at all. Find me proofs with Lasgo's Observer thingy, then I'll believe it. I've caught many hackers and suspected many non-hackers. "Suspicious" actions detected by BWAC and BWChart didn't match with the observer program selections.
I don't think you guys have enough proofs to say that he hacks. Someone said sooner that BWAC does not make mistakes. Bullshit.
On May 10 2005 14:37 MaRiO.BrOs_ wrote: i wouldn't base all accusation on BWAC or BWChart on w/e the program you use. The only GOOD reliable "anti-hack" was Lasgo's Observer Pack. If a proof doesn't come from this program, then I don't trust it.
Those two programs make a lot of mistakes. I've seen him play on east, and I didn't think his play was suspicious at all. Find me proofs with Lasgo's Observer thingy, then I'll believe it. I've caught many hackers and suspected many non-hackers. "Suspicious" actions detected by BWAC and BWChart didn't match with the observer program selections.
I don't think you guys have enough proofs to say that he hacks. Someone said sooner that BWAC does not make mistakes. Bullshit.
i think BWAC make it easier to "search for suspicious actions" but BWCHART is the program which confirms the hack action
On May 10 2005 14:37 MaRiO.BrOs_ wrote: Find me proofs with Lasgo's Observer thingy, then I'll believe it (...) I don't think you guys have enough proofs to say that he hacks. Someone said sooner that BWAC does not make mistakes. Bullshit.
It's easy to ask some proof from a software that doesnt exists ! There is no bwtvobs for patch 1.12, you havent been around in a while ? So it's very easy if you want to defend your friend to ask us to provide something that is very obviously and publicly known as impossible to do. And btw, bwtvobs is not supposed to be an anti-cheat program, it can just be used for this in some case but it's not "the only anti-cheat program", since it's not even in this category.
And if you think that penguinplug/bwac+bwchart can make some mistakes, then prove it, respect the method perfectly and try to find some proof in replays of someone that is not cheating. Good luck.
On May 10 2005 14:37 MaRiO.BrOs_ wrote: i wouldn't base all accusation on BWAC or BWChart on w/e the program you use. The only GOOD reliable "anti-hack" was Lasgo's Observer Pack. If a proof doesn't come from this program, then I don't trust it.
Those two programs make a lot of mistakes. I've seen him play on east, and I didn't think his play was suspicious at all. Find me proofs with Lasgo's Observer thingy, then I'll believe it. I've caught many hackers and suspected many non-hackers. "Suspicious" actions detected by BWAC and BWChart didn't match with the observer program selections.
I don't think you guys have enough proofs to say that he hacks. Someone said sooner that BWAC does not make mistakes. Bullshit.
i think BWAC make it easier to "search for suspicious actions" but BWCHART is the program which confirms the hack action
and talking about accuracy, BWCHART > Lasgo OP
You can't be serious?
In BWChart, if you click a building you half see, poof, suspicious. I even saw some LAN games with those kind of proofs you have against Lastgosu.
On May 10 2005 14:48 MaRiO.BrOs_ wrote: In BWChart, if you click a building you half see, poof, suspicious. I even saw some LAN games with those kind of proofs you have against Lastgosu.
On May 10 2005 14:48 MaRiO.BrOs_ wrote: In BWChart, if you click a building you half see, poof, suspicious. I even saw some LAN games with those kind of proofs you have against Lastgosu.
i dunno, something just isnt right about this newfangled hack detection. All the effort that has gone into new patches, constant bwchart revisions, all the anti-cheat technology developed around the globe from hanstars, to bws, to pgt. And out of all of this, one stupid ultra borderline method of just comparing an action at a specific tick rate is suddenly unvealed on us all? Penguins cheat detection method is the kind you would have expected the first be released in broodwar, not the last after everything else that has been done.
I have a feeling after all these accusations have been made theres going to be a lot of retractions once a flaw is found in his methods or something. Theres too much human interaction necessary to make these decisions now, and people always manage to fuck shit up. I think he needs to analyze the bw replay format compared to vod's and what not for nitty gritty testing, to see what possible ways the two can deviate from reality and return while providing a seemleesley accurate replay.
On May 10 2005 14:48 MaRiO.BrOs_ wrote: In BWChart, if you click a building you half see, poof, suspicious. I even saw some LAN games with those kind of proofs you have against Lastgosu.
Then when you will know what you are talking about, you can talk but you will not say the same thing
yeah but seriously, the word "suspicous" in bwchart really confuses the major of bwplayers, i mean REALLY. I can't remember how many times i kept saying that suspicious is ...just suspicious.
By the way, the old Lasgo only good at catching hacker by the "select" method, it had a flaw like when you move/attack on the unexplored area, if there is a building there, the program will show a nice circle which someone may think that it's a hack, eventhough the ACTUAL action is a move/attach ground.
So MaRiO.BrOs_, if you catch a whole bunch of hacker using LasgoOP based on the circle (which you very likely did), you may want to revise those "proof" because they are not proof.
On May 10 2005 14:58 MaRiO.BrOs_ wrote: I'm just saying that programs who detect selection aren't 100% reliable. Enough.
It's 100 reliable when used correctly. To use it correctly you follow the method. If you think i'm wrong and that's theres so many case where it's unreliable, find one ! you say that's it's easy, but you just give a subjective opinion.
On May 10 2005 15:02 NewbSaibot wrote: i dunno, something just isnt right about this newfangled hack detection. All the effort that has gone into new patches, constant bwchart revisions, all the anti-cheat technology developed around the globe from hanstars, to bws, to pgt. And out of all of this, one stupid ultra borderline method of just comparing an action at a specific tick rate is suddenly unvealed on us all? Penguins cheat detection method is the kind you would have expected the first be released in broodwar, not the last after everything else that has been done.
I have a feeling after all these accusations have been made theres going to be a lot of retractions once a flaw is found in his methods or something. Theres too much human interaction necessary to make these decisions now, and people always manage to fuck shit up. I think he needs to analyze the bw replay format compared to vod's and what not for nitty gritty testing, to see what possible ways the two can deviate from reality and return while providing a seemleesley accurate replay.
This is not a new method, it's just another approach.
In BWChart, if you click a building you half see, poof, suspicious. I even saw some LAN games with those kind of proofs you have against Lastgosu."
thats probably not what superpenguin is talking about.
There are 1 or 2 suspicious moves in BW chart in almost every game, due to the scountig probe/scv/drone at about 1.30 -1.50 minutes crusing in your enemy's base..
i havent read about the whole process of detecting map hackers. but as far as i understood superpenguin is 100% sure of what he is doing. And i dont think we are talking about" bwchart shows suspicous move = hacker thing". if it was that easy , why did he write a tutorial about detecting map hack with his new method ?
the thing i dont like most about this rash of new hack claims, is that the method itself hasnt undergone the typical processes of perfection. Where was the beta? Where was the "heres a new method we need to try out". Just all the sudden a week after he releases one program, there is the "100% hack detection method if you look close enough". How long did you test these methods penguin? How many scenerios did you put it through to try and break it? How many times did you purposely setup a fake game and cheat a tiny bit and then see if you can catch yourself? How many times did you get someone else to cheat for you to see if you could find it?
I just dont feel this method has been given enough research to be making claims on anybody yet. Better to let 10 guilty men go free than imprison 1 innocent.
cant wait till someone accuses me of defending hackers or being one.
The other thing is how certain penguin is of himself, yet has he earned our trust for being so certain with him? I mean hes released like 1 real program that gained any notariety, and it was extremely simple at that. No offense to him or anything, but he hasnt done anything to make me believe he has enough knowledge of the game to develope secure anti-cheat methods. And what about developer support? How do the makers of lasgo, pgt, bws, ngi, etc comment on this? Have any of them looked in to it? I'd at least like to see some fellow programmer support saying "yes i aggree this solution works".
On May 10 2005 15:14 NewbSaibot wrote: the thing i dont like most about this rash of new hack claims, is that the method itself hasnt undergone the typical processes of perfection. Where was the beta? Where was the "heres a new method we need to try out". Just all the sudden a week after he releases one program, there is the "100% hack detection method if you look close enough". How long did you test these methods penguin? How many scenerios did you put it through to try and break it? How many times did you purposely setup a fake game and cheat a tiny bit and then see if you can catch yourself? How many times did you get someone else to cheat for you to see if you could find it?
I just dont feel this method has been given enough research to be making claims on anybody yet. Better to let 10 guilty men go free than imprison 1 innocent.
cant wait till someone accuses me of defending hackers or being one.
The other thing is how certain penguin is of himself, yet has he earned our trust for being so certain with him? I mean hes released like 1 real program that gained any notariety, and it was extremely simple at that. No offense to him or anything, but he hasnt done anything to make me believe he has enough knowledge of the game to develope secure anti-cheat methods. And what about developer support? How do the makers of lasgo, pgt, bws, ngi, etc comment on this? Have any of them looked in to it? I'd at least like to see some fellow programmer support saying "yes i aggree this solution works".
well i'm not a programmer but as i said this method is not new. In fact it's the same as lasgo method or w/e you call it.
Reading through all lostgosus posts he seems really strange and delusional... if he wasn't hacking the reaction with these kind of hacking accusations would be different. I think he is too much obsessed BW in winning means everything to him. And I really wouldn't be suprised if he was afraid of losing, and winning TLT would be his rocket ride to BW fame... an event he was surely not wanting to lose.
On May 10 2005 15:14 NewbSaibot wrote: the thing i dont like most about this rash of new hack claims, is that the method itself hasnt undergone the typical processes of perfection. Where was the beta? Where was the "heres a new method we need to try out". Just all the sudden a week after he releases one program, there is the "100% hack detection method if you look close enough". How long did you test these methods penguin? How many scenerios did you put it through to try and break it?
the program originaly come from the original bwac code, there wasnt any process to follow and it could lead to errors when not used correctly, because most people were uninformed that borderline cases could exists. After 1.12b came out and knowing that lasgo was a little to busy to revive bwac, i asked him to share some code with me and i rewrote a big part of the bwac feature in PenguinPlug.
The first thing i did was to make all possible classic test case : test the 3 actions, under the 2 different fog of war + the full visibility state, both without a maphack and with a maphack on udp 2 human players network games. In all test case, the innocent was never accused by penguinplug, and the actions on bwchart concerned only locations and not objects. In all test cases where it was possible to catch a cheater from an action he did, penguinplug did caught him.
The 2nd step was the real testing. The SCD forum also have a small ladder with 300 players (most of you will probably laught about it since it's not something for gosu like TLT or any other serious tournament). durring 2 month, a non-released penguinplug version with bwac features was tested by a team called "the hacker-police" (http://www.starcraftdream.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3202), formed of people that had a good knowledge of the old "bwac" behavior before 1.12's time. 5 members of the "hacker-police" had the aim of checking at least 5 replays every day of the the games in the league, and i can tell for sure that more than 2000 games have been watched with it by the hacker police members with the purpose of testing this new penguinplug feature. only 3 of the 300 players were "arrested", but not even once there were any unexpected results.
We latter concluded that it was more fair to use bwscanner for the next seasons because this kind of detection by replays doesnt prevent all cheat programs and was too much time consuming to check more than a small part of the player.
However, we were satisfied that it allowed us to ban some cheaters, that's still better than banning no cheaters. Like i said in the method introduction, it's not a perfect way to catch all cheaters, but it's the only one you know about (if you dont make any assumptions about your enemy having a program installed on his computer to detect cheats localy).
You can be sure that it's not something i elaborated in 3 hours, i studied it since 1.10 by using bwac, and continued it by explaining the method and releasing the program that we now have in 1.12b.
I think the method and the tools are mature, that's why you see me posting about it here. Anyway, someone that is accused and guilty will say he is innocent, and will invent whatever reason that is subjective enough to be invented. So far the best reasons for me to be wrong were "if i was cheating i would play better/less stupid", "you are not a good player enough", "you are a nerd" or "you have no life" and i wont argue about if it's true or false but it certainly prove nothing. The "i have a too high APM to cheat" is a very funny one, lois invented something new here
Everything is mature, but it's not "mature in everybody's mind", i mean that it realy took some time on the SCD communauty get the people informed, i wasnt expecting that everyone would agree here on the first sight. The world is not flat, it's a sphere
Now those who want to belive it or not do what they want, and those who take the decisions about the players i accuse can make the decision they want, but i would find sad if nothing would have been done about it.
Better to let 10 guilty men go free than imprison 1 innocent.
i agree on that, and i said what i said keeping that in mind.
well now that you have confirmed that a satisfactory testing phase was conducted i am more at ease with the accusations. It's just usually these are the things people salivate over, waiting in anticipation of their release. You surprised us all both with your auto-unally hack and now this.
OK. So logically - why would Lois, in that rep, at that time, target that particular nexus? Also, i can't remember - but did any units start heading that way? I remember the game situation and there was some action happening around Lois' base at the time and for him to "target" the nexus on the other side of the map does not make any sense at all.
On May 10 2005 17:09 Verbloten wrote: OK. So logically - why would Lois, in that rep, at that time, target that particular nexus? Also, i can't remember - but did any units start heading that way? I remember the game situation and there was some action happening around Lois' base at the time and for him to "target" the nexus on the other side of the map does not make any sense at all.
We catch cheaters because they make mistake when clicking on things. If we have to find a philosophical explanantion about it, it will be hard. But this expand was probably the first thing in the way to his main base... check the replay by yourself and try to answer your own questions.
On May 10 2005 17:09 Verbloten wrote: OK. So logically - why would Lois, in that rep, at that time, target that particular nexus? Also, i can't remember - but did any units start heading that way? I remember the game situation and there was some action happening around Lois' base at the time and for him to "target" the nexus on the other side of the map does not make any sense at all.
If you look at the rep, he sends an scv to scout Nookie's natural and tells the scv to attack move where the expansion was located under fog of war. Imo, I think superpenguin's method to find hackers is very accurate. There is no way to re-produce the type of action that Lois was able to do under fog of war. Lois had no vision anywhere in the vinicity of the nexus for a while so there's no way it could have been a borderline case. The evidence is pretty solid imo unless someone can re-produce an attack command on a building under fog of war.
logically why would he? obviously he would not want to do that. it would get him caught. he did it accidentally. now he's caught. deal wit it.
why would bwchart or penguinplug record that? they didn't. broodwar did. in the rep file that you saved. you uploaded proof of yourself cheating and didn't realise it.
lastgosu if you want some advice: don't call so much attention to yourself. you think you are too big. if you just let this whole thing fade away no one would have remembered you. you could have came back as someone else and got away with this all over again. and let someone else post for you. your posts here have made you look bad and made this whole controversey into something way more memorable than it would have been. you shot yourself in the foot because you think yourself too big and important.
On May 10 2005 17:46 lastgosu wrote: superpenguin you are just an fucking idiot trying to take me down.
ahah, now i find the usual cheater defense
If im fucking hacker i would made more clear evidence strange move or opposite build order against enemy if you have brain think about it.
except if you dont want to get caught ?
proove out at least more real agressive evidence that everyone 100% clearly can believe before you treat someone as a shit.
the wgtour removed all games from your game list and it's not something i aprove but it's not something i can do anything about. It's very easy for you to "demand other proofs" when you know i cant access any other of your games. If we have a proof, dont try to ask for others, try to explain why it could not be valid.
And fucking unban me from WGT I fucking have no idea why i got banned from it. I dont fucking know who banned me you are abuser.
Fucking funny that superpenguin said im the only one hacker in TLT TOP 100.
3 times "fucking" in 2 lines, new world record, congratulation
I said you were the only "heavy hacker" in TOP 43, my post is still there and i never modified that part. Obviously if someone hacked only in 1 game, theres big chance that it's impossible to prove.
And now saying "i caught someone else! he click some gas depot which is impossible!"
that program is one fucking shitty funny action caughter can be accuse anybody hack.
there is no proof of i hack and just saying 1 attack record = 100% I would say this is fucking stupid program's stupid result. somehow -_-
its very very non-sense
If i was fucking hacker where is certain hackish movements? there is 80 of my TLT games.. im very sure you can find at least 5 very certain map hack movement if you can judge im 100% hacker. FUCKER !! go find those some real proof then posts something about it.
Kind of off topic, but I was just wondering if anyone has ever checked good kor players for hack, whats stopping kors from hacking anymore than foreigners?
stfu superpenguin you fucking ass. you can easily download my games from TLT replay Pack. WGT erased all my game and you cant seek anymore ? fuck you !!
I fucking hacked just only 1 game ? in entired of my LAdder game ? Do you think that make any sense ?? you really making me pissed off without making any sense.
Why would people use map hack ? obviously they use it to Overwhelm they're enemy. I dont make clear evidence to hide my self from using hack ? so i suicide all my units and dont make any decent movement ? and i hack only 1 game from entire my TLT ladder games ? just only 1 game vs MgZ)NooKie ?
Try to not explain ? about proof ? I make complaint becuz i got banned from WGT and you certainly spread everywhere my self as hacker.
I had to complaint becuz i wanted out of this bull shit.
What if i really didnt hack? lets just think about it. using "fucking" 3 times ? you made me pissed and you make me to use "fucking" -_-
welcome to USA, where FUCK is most americans first word.
i like how that guy a couple posts above has this whole reverse psychology thing goin, "you said it like this, but you meant this really. if you really didnt do it, you woulda said it like this, so we'd think this way" wtf!?! Dr. Phil anyone?
randomKo_rean im very thx to treat me as resfectful way.
well ok at beginning of my posts. I already mentioned that this my complaint will be make fool of my self. and i knew im gonna use those ugly words since people pissing me really off.
honestly think about it. If Im not hacker I would say I dont hack if i did hack i'd do (so and so ) I just did.
finally some of them say " Look at this hacker is complaining like "etc etc"
im not a person with that patient. I cant hold those bad manner against me with smile.
and before that i already got banned from WGT. <- this already pissed me very off.
I smart hacked ? c'mon I have enough skill to being top non-korean user level. why whould i use hack to participate online prelinary. its not even Final !!
There is not clear enough proof to bann me from WGT im just mad about it All i want is unbaned from WGT which i got banned already without exact reason. someone post SW)Lois hack -> WGT admin: oh he hack ? banned life ! Me: WTF? suddenly happen?? Grrrr..!!!! fucking fucking fucking etc -_-
im very sorry if it was wrong to use word "fucking" i apologize about it.
lastgosu: quit telling us why you think other people use maphack, you just make yourself look more guilty because your assumptions are poor and seem intentionally misleading. Just beacuse you think a maphackers goal is to 'overwhelm' his enemy doesnt make it so, we'll draw our own conclusions about you hacking. You arent being suspected because of how you played but because of the data contained in your replay. Your only possible defense at this point is if the data is flawed, and you have several professionals telling you its not (hopefully). If you want to fight this you need to show how the data could be wrong, not how they are stupid to wonder why you click a geyser.
Superpenguin or someone should click on a building under fog and unscouted land with every concievable command and see if anything comes up just to be sure.
more definite proof would be to check the rest of lastgosu's games.
while superpenguins argument that he hacked is compelling, if the rest of lois' games don't even have one instance of clear hack such as the nookie game, im more inclined to believe it was a fault with the penguin plug and bwchart. that is, even with both programs, its only ONE incident and that is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
NewbSaibot Im not good with English like native speakers. so dont make complaint with it plz.
and you are right. i need to show how the data could be wrong. but o well im not super programmer to proove anything out. and i did not XXXXXXX hack and superpenguin is saying about my 1 action attacking nexus ? and accuse 100% HACK HACK HACK HACK !!!!!! ( its not click a geyser. ) so im just pissed nothing i can do.
Let me ask you something. If somebody is trying to fuck you off with which can be very stupid thing to proove. What are you going to do if you were my position ?
Im very sure that superpenguin checked more of my games. but he isnt prooving any other result yet. honestly if i hacked there should be much more to pick out.
Or do you think i only hack just 1 game versusing MgZ)Nookie ? from my entire of games ??
Just think If you was me what could you be done ? should i study about BW Program and Bwchart Program Map hack Programming ? and spend couple year to study it then say " Look I found this was wrong it can be happen becuz this this etc etc---- Im not a hacker ^0^ ! "
On May 10 2005 01:35 uhjoo wrote: i hate hackers probably as much as the next guy, but an even greater crime is accusing someone innocent of hacking without definitive proof.
in the replay lolok provided, i just don't see definitive proof... if anything, i see evidence that lastgosu is NOT a hacker -- he has to scan for tanks to siege nexus on higher ground b/c he doesn't have vision... wouldn't a hacker just automatically start sieging up the cliff? (unless he was spamming "stop," scanned, then allowed for siege tank to attack, then spammed "stop" again at exactly the right moment for the scan to wear off, all to avoid getting caught <-- an unlikely scenario -_-;
"suspicious actions" detected by bwchart are not reliable at all (unless you accusers are talking about something else)
so unless there's something more definite that i'm missing, "suspicion" doesn't equate proof
if lastgosu does turn out to be a hacker, he will be soundly ridiculed for his posts in this thread and i will be the first to deride him. however, i think it's completely unfair and jumping to conclusions to accuse him of hacking as is... and making fun of his english and his looks or whatever is just plain childish.
lastgosu, if you're not a hacker, sometimes, being falsely accused of hacking is the ultimate compliment :D
Wow, this has got to be the first time I've ever disagreed with uhjoo. Uhjoo, have you read penguin's entire article about his process? I'd be very interested to see what your thoughts are after you read his entire article, because I had the same thoughts that you did before I read it.
I think penguin's rationalization of his method is highly scientific and accurate. It's just that people either cannot comprehend it or the misinterpret it. Like that guy from Mexico who recently posted a false hacker accusation based on a "suspicious" move. Pengiun is clear about what the difference is between suspicious move, which may not be hacking, and clear proof which most certainly is hacking, namely 5+ seconds of vision. You also have to be careful about objects on the borderline of vison. We must always err on the side of caution when making hack accusations and the mexican guy tarnished the credibilty of penguins method in the eyes of the masses.
But I'm 100% convinced that if you follow Pengiuns method precisely, then you can determine without a shadow of a doubt certain non-borderline cases of hacking. And this game with Lois is certainly a clear case of hacking.
p.s. let's do pengiun some justice and not accuse hack when it's 1 second of vision or 1 pixel of space from vision.
Also, uhjoo, because a hacker can see up a cliff, dosn't mean the UNITS can. Therefore you must scan for units to shoot up cliff. I think Lastgosu hacks.
There really is nothing you can do anymore lastgosu. Everyones mind is made up. If you honestly believe you are innocent, then i think you should just state so one last time, and go on playing with the hope that one day you will be vindicated. If you are banned for life from something and have no way to make your way back in, well i guess thats just one of those crushing blows that happens every now and then. You are a casualty of war, sorry man.
lois comsat a nexus that he cant see, before he comsat, it's totaly the black fog of war :
Then he comsat exactly on the nexus and it's shown as a target on that object that he couldnt even see before that, not even greyed.
You can also see the action in bwchart:
Some might argue with a theory that it's the purpose of the comsat to "discover the units" that you clic on. It doesnt work that way for broodwar, so i made a simple test map to help you to check this (choose "save as" ) : http://ste.gnux.info/ftp/scd/test-target.scm
all the north of the map is filled with nexus, and you have enough scanner at the south to hit a few undiscovered nexus... not surprisingly, every time you scan a nexus that you dont have directly under vision, it's recorded as a "scan on the ground", PenguinPlug doesnt complain and bwchart show that the action is not associated with a particular tageted object but only the location.
Please, dont say "i think you are wrong" if you are too lazy to test by yourself
Ok, i was stupid enough to give a 2nd evidence, as good as the first one. Now that theres 200% of chance that you are a cheater, do i need to proove that you are 300% of a cheater ? 400% ? when will it stop ? what will you invent next, i'm starting to get borred ?
The other possibility (and listening to penguin man etc) probably the only viable explanation left for mr lastgosu is that the message stored in the replay file is incorrect and the problem lies with some random and rare fault of BW when either saving the game data or interpreting the game data during play. If i was you lastgosu i would try and seek the help of a suitably qualified representative from Blizzard who could comment on the possibility of this situation arising. Apart from that - i would have to agree with everyone else - that you are stuffed mate
If you don't hack - you have my deepest sympathies for position you have found yourself in through no fault of your own - but if you do.. you can STFU.
Who cares. WDT was complete scam and everyone was out a few hundred dollars, bitching didn't help anything.
SW)Lois trying to deny it is amusing though. Don't listen. Maphackers are completely devoid of morals; they're able to give the most heart-felt plead of innocence despite the fact that they are guilty guilty guilty. I've seen it about 58938590389053 times.
No matter what, he'll still think that as long as he fervently denies these accusations, there will still be enough uncertainty for many to excuse him. It's pathetic, really, and what I've seen from him in this thread is like another pile of shit shoveled on top of his shit mountain.
Nearly every confirmed maphacker (of which there are hundreds) has stood firm in their plead of innocence, and every single one of them was full of shit, just like SW)Lois here today.
Maybe he justifies his use of maphack by thinking, "everybody in tournament could be maphacking, so I will too" or "I will just maphack against the people I think maphack," but the simple truth is, there is no excuse to maphack, and in the BW community you are absolute scum if you ever do.
ok now if i understand penguin correctly, this definately seals the deal in my eyes. I can totally see a habitual hacker scanning directly on top of an enemy structure, making it actually perform a selection based action rather than what would be a ground based action beneath the structure.
As I mention before. If you think im 100% hack go check some other my games with that Great method which is very scientific and accurate.
Im very sure you can find multiple more those things if im hacker.
once again do you think I did map hack only 1 game ?
I dont care about his method or whatever
but true fact is that great method also can be wrong maybe sometimes.
I dont care somebody accuse someone hacker I never blamed any hackers. I never posted blamming someone until now.
but this is certainly wrong to accuse me map hacker 100% with 1 little stuff can be error,,,, or even its the right then penguin's method is stupid to caught legit and turn player into a deadly hacker.
If you gonna say superpenguin is 100% right and ignore my posts, then i have nothing to say. If you think somebody hacker , you can find very much suspicious and strange action even it was held'd by legit.
Im very tired and i want to see end of this topic. If everyone say superpenguin's 1 pointview is clearly right, then i cant do anything with it. Its just an video game community im not gonna sue rather ask some proffesional programmer to proove my self about it. ( I cant do either )
but If supergenuin is wrong I want he's apologize and unbanned from WGT. I very like WGT, im very sad they just bann me without any clear decision of it.
The thing about programs being wrong sometimes, is that it can always be recreated. It's not random.
And i kinda aggree with your chris, although i have been encouraging him to just face the problem and get over it, which might have something to do with his change in tune. I mean do you really want him to keep bitching forever?
now you are still clamining that 1 misterious bug came out of nowhere in an unexplainable way, but on 2 different games, 2 different maps and each time confirmed with both bwchart and penguinplug.
now stop saying random things like "it's a misterious bug", get technical or stop speaking.
There is absolutely ZERO PERCENT doubt in my mind that last gosu is a pathetic hacking faggot.
Superpenguin proved it twice. THe second example does not require more than 15 seconds to read and understand and then you can TEST it if you feel otherwise. Its clear, concise and has a testable conclusion.
You have no ground to stand on last gosu. What WCG are you going to? I cant wait to see what method you try to use to cheat there. Maybe elky style sunglasses so you can see other peoples screens?
On May 10 2005 20:15 lastgosu wrote: im gonna check every TLT game reps and see how clearly your method works.
you are really shitty idiot omg ! I cant even say nothing except your method is very idiot !
It is really quite simple, if it is a mysterious bug, then there has got to be at least one more instance where this same bug happened over the millions of replays in existence. If you, or any other person for that matter can find one, JUST ONE!! instance of a clear proof situation not generated by maphack, then you will have proven your point. Go download nada's rep pack as well as all the other known kor pros. Go analyze the KPGA reps. You will have my full apologies if you are able to find a clear proof that was in error.
All it takes is 1 impossible action to prove hacking. There is no bug in the system, regardless of how high your APM is, how fast you move, however you perform any sort of actions,...nothing will result in a bug.
And if anyone doubts it, anybody can test it out themselves, click as much as you want in a game and try to get BWAC or BWChart to give a false impossible action. Here's a warning: you will fail.
Alternatively, there are replay packs of Korean pros everywhere. Download the thousands of replays available from known legit players like Nada, boxer, reach, yellow, etc. Even though these players get 300+APM all the time, you will never ever, ever see BWAC+BWChart detect any instances of hack in these thousands of games. The only time when hack is detected is when a user genuinely performs an impossible action, which it did in your game.
Now with that said, penguin just proved for a second time that you were hacking in a different game. There really is no way to deny it.
I'm ignorant on the subject, so it's probably a silly question, but I'm just curious. Somewhere ealier in this thread it was said that maphack doesn't remove fog of war. So for units the objects under fog of war are invisible. Another thing mentioned is any action (scan, attack, move) over fog of war is recorded as action pointing to the ground. How is it possible to apply action to the object, visible through maphack, but for all other purposes placed under the fog of war?
that is actually a cool way to spot hack -.-v i think we can all agree that the barack float with academyrush from lois alá eriador style against random wasnt a copycat of eriador but rather a desperate attempt to beat testie -.-V
On May 10 2005 18:56 PuertoRican wrote: welcome to USA, where FUCK is most americans first word.
i like how that guy a couple posts above has this whole reverse psychology thing goin, "you said it like this, but you meant this really. if you really didnt do it, you woulda said it like this, so we'd think this way" wtf!?! Dr. Phil anyone?
He's not american, he's korean, I hope you guys know that
On May 10 2005 19:38 tenbagger wrote: Wow, this has got to be the first time I've ever disagreed with uhjoo. Uhjoo, have you read penguin's entire article about his process? I'd be very interested to see what your thoughts are after you read his entire article, because I had the same thoughts that you did before I read it.
I think penguin's rationalization of his method is highly scientific and accurate. It's just that people either cannot comprehend it or the misinterpret it. Like that guy from Mexico who recently posted a false hacker accusation based on a "suspicious" move. Pengiun is clear about what the difference is between suspicious move, which may not be hacking, and clear proof which most certainly is hacking, namely 5+ seconds of vision. You also have to be careful about objects on the borderline of vison. We must always err on the side of caution when making hack accusations and the mexican guy tarnished the credibilty of penguins method in the eyes of the masses.
But I'm 100% convinced that if you follow Pengiuns method precisely, then you can determine without a shadow of a doubt certain non-borderline cases of hacking. And this game with Lois is certainly a clear case of hacking.
p.s. let's do pengiun some justice and not accuse hack when it's 1 second of vision or 1 pixel of space from vision.
On May 10 2005 19:44 pirate cod wrote: Also, uhjoo, because a hacker can see up a cliff, dosn't mean the UNITS can. Therefore you must scan for units to shoot up cliff. I think Lastgosu hacks.
i was immediately corrected on both these points after i posted. previous to reading this thread, i was clueless on hacking and the technology required to detect it (i simply ignore hacking and hackers and figure that if someone hacks, "you're a loser in life that i won't concern myself with"). but i've read up on hacking a bit due to this thread and i did actually read penguin's rationalization, and undoubtedly penguin's defense of his software and method are very convincing. as an aside, penguin's contributions in finding hackers is really an absolute "good" for the community so i'm not at all trying to discredit his efforts. and at this point i'm inclined to think that the burden of proof is on lastgosu to prove there is some heretofore undetected bug or other error in penguin's method of confirming map hack. perhaps some other non-hack third party program interacts with bw to produce false positives? bleh who the hell knows but for some reason, even despite the evidence, i can't help but pause before jumping on board to denunciate lastgosu as a hacker.
again, what is incredibly bizarre to me is that i've watched quite a few of lastgosu's replays and his play just seems so unsuspicious-- he loses quite a few games that if he hacked, he would've clearly won. lastgosu's replies in this thread also are very bizarre and either he's really off his rocker/delusional, or actually innocent. it would be just comical if it were the former, but a real tragedy if it was the latter.
On May 10 2005 20:55 TreK[cF] wrote: that is actually a cool way to spot hack -.-v i think we can all agree that the barack float with academyrush from lois alá eriador style against random wasnt a copycat of eriador but rather a desperate attempt to beat testie -.-V
To bad it can only detect dirty terran hackers thou... -_-
Anyone remember Oddy? Everyone thought he hacked, this was before BwChart and everything so nobody could prove he did. After lasgos obs came out, i checked his old TvP reps, and they were so funny. He selected every single building of theirs right from the start of the game. Like he was bored and just clicking around on the opponents buildings like people do with their own minerals It was a few reps from that online tourney against whear (I forget the name of the tourney, but it was for money).
gj penguin, 100% proof of hack. just to note its impossible to catch maphackers since most of them are not stupid enough to click. (nigol was never cought hacking by clicking, he was stupid enough to admit it and got screen shoted 1st time. then got cought cheated again by screen shot 2nd time) lastgosu u were dumb enough to clicked and it shows in bwchart, and bwac. big mistake.
In the last 3 days ive checked around 400 random replays of TLT games, especially i checked rS clans and others, didn't find anything ....... i was bored enough now to go back to SW)Lois replays and find another proof , bad luck wgtour already erased all of his games and we cant dl them anymore...
before you say hey you got too much free time in your hands, well, i just dl replays in a "hackcheck' folder then i watch them x16 if i see a suspicious move that i see weird, then i just watch the rep again in that minute...maybe i could miss some really suspicious moves but i think i havent.. anyway,,, i really dont think more TLT gamers have cheated... i mean if i have checked that much replays... and for every replay i check two players, then maybe i've checked at least one game of each gamer possibly...
so i will stop searching for more, nevertheless i will wait for WGT12 season to start and watch all future replays with this excelent program and see what happens
Napoleon Poland. May 11 2005 02:57. Posts 68 PM Profile Buddy Quote " I am sure there have been occaisons where they have banned people that have not hacked"
Give me an example please if you're so sure o_O Sorry but i know how admins are baning people for hack. Without a good proof they will not touch anything. Spreading such rumours is a bit bad manner
And to the Lois story... go and DL last TLT reppack of him from WGT and you'll find more proofs. It's not a single action. Look here:
On May 10 2005 21:28 Elvin_vn wrote: @ujoo: Yeah, but it can't be a non-hack proof since smart hacker would probably made some mistake here and there so that people wouldn't suspect them
There's something recurring in SW)Lois' posts that has done a good job of convincing me that there's no meat to his argument
Im very sure that superpenguin checked more of my games. but he isnt prooving any other result yet. honestly if i hacked there should be much more to pick out.
Or do you think i only hack just 1 game versusing MgZ)Nookie ? from my entire of games ??
If he demands to see more "proof" of his hacking from other replays, then he unintentionally recognizes this as "proof". And he's hoping there is no more in other replays. I really think this is a case of subconscious self-ownage, and I'm closing my file on Lois until significant new information comes up.
is lasgosu too stupid to understand that 2nd proof or is he just trying to put on a show for those who are? why does he care so much, does he think he's that famous? does he want to become a famous hack user like (insert many names here)?
On May 11 2005 11:44 labcoated wrote: is lasgosu too stupid to understand that 2nd proof or is he just trying to put on a show for those who are? why does he care so much, does he think he's that famous? does he want to become a famous hack user like (insert many names here)?
Seriously, he has so many other things going for him. Good looks, a cut-muscular body and great knowledge of the English language.
lastgosu's posts are so sad and pathetic... there's no real conviction behind his arguments, if someone was really innocent they'd say "there's a bug, i don't hack" not "if superiorpenguin is wrong, i should be unbanned from wgt fucking fucking"
If you save reps from games that have lag, or is very laggy, use bwac to find hackers, it says everyone is hacking and clicking things they dont see for like 20 more seconds.
il post my evidence replays when I find a laggy game to save.
On May 11 2005 13:20 samaticon wrote: If you save reps from games that have lag, or is very laggy, use bwac to find hackers, it says everyone is hacking and clicking things they dont see for like 20 more seconds.
il post my evidence replays when I find a laggy game to save.
That's why there is in my method the line : "- Check the replay until the end to be sure it's not corrupted, or from an old starcraft version : if you see like 5 message every second, it probably means the replay is unusable"
On May 11 2005 13:56 shizuru wrote: why don't the hack actions, that is scanning exactly on nexus, register as red text/suspicious action on bwchart?
also, why would anyone attack move on a Nexus?
1- bwchart only consider that "select actions" can be suspicious. PenguinPlug allow to discover the profs even on target and move on 2- why would anyone attack anything ? and why not ? He clicked it by error and is busted because of that, i dont think we realy need to explain every action he do, with 300 apm there is obviously a lot of un-necessary clics.
On May 11 2005 14:00 Shiv wrote: You just all you people attacking superpenguin have to understand one thing: the question is not why. It is how. (edit: to shizuru, mainly)
im not attacking. im questioning to understand not why but how penguin came to his conclusion. i think the days are long gone when no one questions the voice of god.
On May 11 2005 13:56 shizuru wrote: why don't the hack actions, that is scanning exactly on nexus, register as red text/suspicious action on bwchart?
also, why would anyone attack move on a Nexus?
1- bwchart only consider that "select actions" can be suspicious. PenguinPlug allow to discover the profs even on target and move on 2- why would anyone attack anything ? and why not ? He clicked it by error and is busted because of that, i dont think we realy need to explain every action he do, with 300 apm there is obviously a lot of un-necessary clics.
i was tryin it out in the game. for scanning, usually people click on minimap. when you click on minimap even when its right at the nexus, it doesnt select the nexus. you'd have to physically move your pointer to the nexus and click on it then hit scan. from all the confusion, which action did lois do? target the nexus or select it? im not exactly computer literate thats why im asking. hack accusations are pretty serious so questioning the method is just as important.
On May 09 2005 21:05 superpenguin wrote: Lois, like i said on wgtour, i dont know for the game vs testie and i will probably never know, but what i can be sure is that you hacked in the game vs nookie that i explained in the following link http://www.starcraftdream.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4983 (it's not the one that is shown in this TL thread)
Sure there is suspicious action in everyones games, but everytime it's possible to know if they can be done by a legit player or if it's necessary to have a cheat program to do a particular suspicious action. If you can find a flaw in my explaination, and you could verify in a test game that both penguinplug and bwchart can be wrong at the same time and in this kind of situation (attack a nexus that you didnt saw since the last 30 seconds), then you would have my appoligies, but i would suggest you instead to try to become the president of the USA or to walk on the moon because it's easier.
More seriously, you should give your appologies, i'm sure theres many players that didnt deserved to play the unfair games you gave them. In addition, there were many player that deserved by thier skills the place you took by your maphack.
14:32 - scan on nexus 15:20 - move on nexus 15:26-7 - engineering bay has vision of nexus
lois moves units on nexus 6-7 seconds before he has vision of it. that's cutting it close according to your five second lag rule. 1-2 seconds over what you call a borderline case. but about 4 seconds over normal lag.
does penguin read differently a move under partial/fog of war and with vision?
On May 10 2005 19:55 superpenguin wrote: an other proof, in the game named in the begining of this thread (it's not the same game than the first proof i gave).
lois comsat a nexus that he cant see, before he comsat, it's totaly the black fog of war :
Then he comsat exactly on the nexus and it's shown as a target on that object that he couldnt even see before that, not even greyed.
You can also see the action in bwchart:
Some might argue with a theory that it's the purpose of the comsat to "discover the units" that you clic on. It doesnt work that way for broodwar, so i made a simple test map to help you to check this (choose "save as" ) : http://ste.gnux.info/ftp/scd/test-target.scm
all the north of the map is filled with nexus, and you have enough scanner at the south to hit a few undiscovered nexus... not surprisingly, every time you scan a nexus that you dont have directly under vision, it's recorded as a "scan on the ground", PenguinPlug doesnt complain and bwchart show that the action is not associated with a particular tageted object but only the location.
Please, dont say "i think you are wrong" if you are too lazy to test by yourself
Ok, i was stupid enough to give a 2nd evidence, as good as the first one. Now that theres 200% of chance that you are a cheater, do i need to proove that you are 300% of a cheater ? 400% ? when will it stop ? what will you invent next, i'm starting to get borred ?
there are many actions considered suspicious by bwac where things are selected , moved on, scanned. you point out that the difference between a suspicion and proof is the lag. a second within he selects or targets it, he scans. this happens throughout on canons, gateways, units after before a scan but are not considered 100% proof so why is this one used as an example?
On May 11 2005 14:14 shizuru wrote: i was tryin it out in the game. for scanning, usually people click on minimap. when you click on minimap even when its right at the nexus, it doesnt select the nexus. you'd have to physically move your pointer to the nexus and click on it then hit scan. from all the confusion, which action did lois do? target the nexus or select it?
On the fist proof (in the starcraft dream link), he attack the nexus, i dont know if it's attack move or right clic but anyway it's on the nexus.
On the 2nd he comsat the nexus directly. To answer your question "why didnt he used the minimap to scan", it's because he dont even need comsat to see that there is a nexus, but he think he need to scan it so he can attack it or make a drop on it without looking like a cheater. When you see that there is some dark templar, and you want to reveal it for your units, what do you clic to scan them ? the minimap or the screen game ? lois was already looking the nexus when he intended to scan, for example he could need to know if it was finished or just building, so he just scanned on the global map and not on the mini map.
He scanned just to make it looks like he isnt a cheater and this action is in this fact a proof that he maphacks ironical
On May 11 2005 15:23 Elvin_vn wrote: user select objects AFTER losing vision <== LAGNESS
select object BEFORE having vision is not LAG
by the way, u really think somebody is willing to play under 5 seconds lag condition in a tournament like this ?
what i think about what they feel about playing 5 seconds of lag is besides the point. maybe lag creeped up during that battle as it is known to, maybe it didnt.
selecting object before vision is not lag? hmm....
Don't talk, find replay of progamers, test the method and prove it wrong. You are too lazy.
lol i knew the condescention was coming from you. im lazy even tho im spending the past hr reading through penguins argument and then checkin the reps out on penguin? this is testing the method, albeit the very beginnings of it. so u can take a big pill of stfu
On May 11 2005 15:25 shizuru wrote: there are many actions considered suspicious by bwac where things are selected , moved on, scanned. you point out that the difference between a suspicion and proof is the lag. a second within he selects or targets it, he scans. this happens throughout on canons, gateways, units after before a scan but are not considered 100% proof so why is this one used as an example?
I never talked about lag, i talked about lattency. Lattency is the delay between the moment you send the command and the moment the game do this action for every player at the same time including yourself. This lattency is predictable, it's a defined number of game tick (well, you can pick one of 3), and lag has to effect on it as long as you consider how the games works using the "game tick" to count the time. When you watch a replay in single player, there is no lag, but there is still the latency that it was recorded with.
So in fact because of the lattency, someone can attack something when he see it, and then just half a second after, the thing disapear.
When we consider comsating, it's clear that when lois comsat something, the fact that the comsat will allow him to see the nexus latter in the game will not help him to see it before that time, at the moment he send the command.
why is it that in bwchart the only time the action is recorded as a comsat vs. a move or hotkey is in that incident you pointed out at 16:51?
recorded as move or hotkey: scans of nexuses in fog: 7:51, 10:33, 12:30 etc. & scans of ground in fog: 11:16 two scans.
i dont understand your question
in bw chart for second proof under action it's "comsat." i think you have it highlighted in the graphic i linked to on p13. searching through other times that lois scans in same game i couldn't find "comsat" under action but instead saw a bunch of hotkey+moves to scan. so why is it that the other scans arent recorded as "comsats" under action in bwchart?
on a side note:
bw chart of replay reads: time /player/ action / parameters / unit 15:50/ SwLois/ ComSatScan/ (2271,1093)0,228,/ 0
yours: time / player/ action / parameters / unit 24070/ swlois/ ComSatScan/ (241,208) Nexus, 228/ 3354
compare that information when i open the replay in bwchart with the graphic you provided when you opened the replay with bwchart.
that's rather gay everything would have been different if he was caught and banned earlier, as far as the seedings and who qualified for the final tournament ( fayth ) so fuck you lastgosu I really do hope you go to wcg i'll bitch smack your ass back to korea.
On May 11 2005 18:42 Elvin_vn wrote: superpenguin:
Thanks for the explaination about lag and latency. You've lighten me up. But I have a question for you, my first question for you.
Is it possible to modify the replay at low level so that you can fake actions? The replay is already been saved.
How about a run-time program modifying the action that BW is going to save to the replay. What's your opinion?
yes but it wouldnt be easy. What's easyer would be to spoof a player name or something like that. However, since lois himself posted 1 of the proof, do you realy think he would have added the proof on purpose by modifying the replay himself ?
For "run-time programs", it has to be done on purpose and with care to keep the replay uncorrupted. Some cheats do that to try to prevent to be detected, but theres nothing to "add suspicious actions" in my opinion. In all case, any non-bw related program has no influance on the replay saving.
On May 11 2005 19:21 IAmNooKS wrote: that's rather gay everything would have been different if he was caught and banned earlier, as far as the seedings and who qualified for the final tournament ( fayth ) so fuck you lastgosu I really do hope you go to wcg i'll bitch smack your ass back to korea.
lmfao you sound like you hate hackers a lot, but you were one of them. I bet everyone else would bitch smack you when they see you in WCG as well =)
On May 11 2005 19:24 Terross wrote: haha, nooks really would deck that nerdy
ROFL I love how you didn't say jackshit when NigoL was caught hacking and befriend former hackers like NigoL and NookS but I find your posts everywhere when it comes to Lois hacking. :O
I mean if you're gonna stay out of all "caught hackers" threads, thats fine with me. And I was even fine with all of yours posts up to this point (despite how retarded most of them were), but "haha, nooks really would deck that nerdy" ?
That just seems like the quote of a confused adolescent whose trying to find his identity. I mean "deck that nerdy"? NERDY? DECK? IN THE SAME SENTENCE?
On May 11 2005 19:24 Terross wrote: haha, nooks really would deck that nerdy
ROFL I love how you didn't say jackshit when NigoL was caught hacking and befriend former hackers like NigoL and NookS but I find your posts everywhere when it comes to Lois hacking. :O
I mean if you're gonna stay out of all "caught hackers" threads, thats fine with me. And I was even fine with all of yours posts up to this point (despite how retarded most of them were), but "haha, nooks really would deck that nerdy" ?
That just seems like the quote of a confused adolescent whose trying to find his identity. I mean "deck that nerdy"? NERDY? DECK? IN THE SAME SENTENCE?
/squelch Terross
If you would have read the posts above his, NookS said he would deck lois, terross was just agreeing with nooks' statement.
On May 11 2005 19:24 Terross wrote: haha, nooks really would deck that nerdy
ROFL I love how you didn't say jackshit when NigoL was caught hacking and befriend former hackers like NigoL and NookS but I find your posts everywhere when it comes to Lois hacking. :O
I mean if you're gonna stay out of all "caught hackers" threads, thats fine with me. And I was even fine with all of yours posts up to this point (despite how retarded most of them were), but "haha, nooks really would deck that nerdy" ?
That just seems like the quote of a confused adolescent whose trying to find his identity. I mean "deck that nerdy"? NERDY? DECK? IN THE SAME SENTENCE?
/squelch Terross
wade shut up, nigol is an idiot as well, and he is my friend because he is hilarious, obviously i would back him up as you are for lois since he is on your team and you are a dick rider like the rest of those east trash kids. Nooks as you can see in another thread i said " many people still think nooks hacks and nigol definitely does." i believe this was the pgt thread. now shut the fcuk up and go back to lubing your ass for lois.
On May 11 2005 19:24 Terross wrote: haha, nooks really would deck that nerdy
ROFL I love how you didn't say jackshit when NigoL was caught hacking and befriend former hackers like NigoL and NookS but I find your posts everywhere when it comes to Lois hacking. :O
I mean if you're gonna stay out of all "caught hackers" threads, thats fine with me. And I was even fine with all of yours posts up to this point (despite how retarded most of them were), but "haha, nooks really would deck that nerdy" ?
That just seems like the quote of a confused adolescent whose trying to find his identity. I mean "deck that nerdy"? NERDY? DECK? IN THE SAME SENTENCE?
/squelch Terross
wade shut up, nigol is an idiot as well, and he is my friend because he is hilarious, obviously i would back him up as you are for lois since he is on your team and you are a dick rider like the rest of those east trash kids. Nooks as you can see in another thread i said " many people still think nooks hacks and nigol definitely does." i believe this was the pgt thread. now shut the fcuk up and go back to lubing your ass for lois.
Where have I backed up Lois? I never said "OMFG YOU LIAR 'NERDIES' NEED TO STOP LYING CUZ LOIS DOESN'T HACK!" did I? I don't back up hackers. NigoL is a fucking retard. But I guess retarded comedy is your forte.
I just don't understand how you can bitch at Lois so bad throughout these threads for hacking, and straight out be all "buddy buddy" with another hacker because he's "funny". Explain? :O
On May 11 2005 19:24 Terross wrote: haha, nooks really would deck that nerdy
ROFL I love how you didn't say jackshit when NigoL was caught hacking and befriend former hackers like NigoL and NookS but I find your posts everywhere when it comes to Lois hacking. :O
I mean if you're gonna stay out of all "caught hackers" threads, thats fine with me. And I was even fine with all of yours posts up to this point (despite how retarded most of them were), but "haha, nooks really would deck that nerdy" ?
That just seems like the quote of a confused adolescent whose trying to find his identity. I mean "deck that nerdy"? NERDY? DECK? IN THE SAME SENTENCE?
/squelch Terross
wade shut up, nigol is an idiot as well, and he is my friend because he is hilarious, obviously i would back him up as you are for lois since he is on your team and you are a dick rider like the rest of those east trash kids. Nooks as you can see in another thread i said " many people still think nooks hacks and nigol definitely does." i believe this was the pgt thread. now shut the fcuk up and go back to lubing your ass for lois.
I don't know you, but already I think you're in fact a dumbass.
Strange message from BWAC just before the 15 minutes mark: "Suspicious action: player "SW)Lois" lose vision to his own unit: Zerg Hydralisk Den (5683)".
Milzo wrote: Strange message from BWAC just before the 15 minutes mark: "Suspicious action: player "SW)Lois" lose vision to his own unit: Zerg Hydralisk Den (5683)".
How does this happen?
thats the same thing i saw in another game.. so i pm penguin.. his answer was:
"For now you should realy ignore this line. In fact it mean that you unselected your own unit, there can be many legit reasons for that to happen : if you select a probe and it go in a gaz, if your enemy statis field an army that you currently have selected...
However, there is one case where it can help to find some cheaters. Because of how some maphack works, it will send the "unselect" command when in reality there is no reason for anything that he currently have selected to be unselected.
But the code to detect what unit is unselected is not safe, so you better not rely on this kind of proof atm."
Its very different for me to have hacked on wgtour 1 1/2-2 years ago then to have hacked in a tournament for MONEY, there is a big big difference, im sorry if the RETARDS that flamed me can't see that and that was the reason I was upset. Lois was one of the last people I played on the TLT ladder and I lost to him in a game that he was hacking and it dropped me from b3 to B4 and messed my positioning up in the ranks for the final tournament.
On May 12 2005 13:44 IAmNooKS wrote: Its very different for me to have hacked on wgtour 1 1/2-2 years ago then to have hacked in a tournament for MONEY, there is a big big difference, im sorry if the RETARDS that flamed me can't see that and that was the reason I was upset. Lois was one of the last people I played on the TLT ladder and I lost to him in a game that he was hacking and it dropped me from b3 to B4 and messed my positioning up in the ranks for the final tournament.
You woulda hacked in a money tournament back then if you had the chance i'm sure.
who am I to get pissed? Who are u to act like you know one thing about me, I usually stear clear of faggots. Yea I hack on bwscanner and pgtour too, i'm that good at hacking, plz retard. Cod, I wasn't good enough back then even though I was hacking to have an impact either way.
On May 12 2005 14:52 IAmNooKS wrote: who am I to get pissed? Who are u to act like you know one thing about me, I usually stear clear of faggots. Yea I hack on bwscanner and pgtour too, i'm that good at hacking, plz retard. Cod, I wasn't good enough back then even though I was hacking to have an impact either way.
You're a typical american one race only east [ex-]hacking newbie.
Is what I would say if I gave a shit. And I don't give a shit.
Hey to you three fellas from the states, I hear there are maps where you can't expand and have a magical mineral patch you can send 200 workers to and the most viable strategy on which is to cannon up and go straight to carriers, what can you tell me about them, the concept sounds interesting?
On May 12 2005 16:35 bubble_bobble wrote: Hey to you three fellas from the states, I hear there are maps where you can't expand and have a magical mineral patch you can send 200 workers to and the most viable strategy on which is to cannon up and go straight to carriers, what can you tell me about them, the concept sounds interesting?
Hey bubble I hear when you get banned from this site it redirects you to Disneyworld.com, maybe one of the admins could help you to find out?
On May 12 2005 14:05 LumberJack wrote: but ur still bad nooks, and did u used to hack, too(prolly still do)? so who are u to get pissed? more like karma
You really shouldn't comment on people's skill who you have never even been close to. Yes, NooKS hacked. Yes, he got caught for it. However, I can pretty much be 100% certain when I say he doesn't hack anymore, I have known him for a long time, and he is far to computer illiterate to figure out how to get around anti-hack servers such as PGT. Sometimes it surpises me that he could even load up BW .
On May 12 2005 14:05 LumberJack wrote: but ur still bad nooks, and did u used to hack, too(prolly still do)? so who are u to get pissed? more like karma
You really shouldn't comment on people's skill who you have never even been close to. Yes, NooKS hacked. Yes, he got caught for it. However, I can pretty much be 100% certain when I say he doesn't hack anymore, I have known him for a long time, and he is far to computer illiterate to figure out how to get around anti-hack servers such as PGT. Sometimes it surpises me that he could even load up BW .
You really shouldn't comment on people's skill who you know nothing about.
LumberJack doesnt game anymore, nor did he game last year, still played in a couple events for the fun of it though.
He WAS good at one point, back when he played serious, if your memory is any good, a good example would be when he played in the first team usa tourney to get another member.
On May 12 2005 14:05 LumberJack wrote: but ur still bad nooks, and did u used to hack, too(prolly still do)? so who are u to get pissed? more like karma
You really shouldn't comment on people's skill who you have never even been close to. Yes, NooKS hacked. Yes, he got caught for it. However, I can pretty much be 100% certain when I say he doesn't hack anymore, I have known him for a long time, and he is far to computer illiterate to figure out how to get around anti-hack servers such as PGT. Sometimes it surpises me that he could even load up BW .
You really shouldn't comment on people's skill who you know nothing about.
LumberJack doesnt game anymore, nor did he game last year, still played in a couple events for the fun of it though.
He WAS good at one point, back when he played serious, if your memory is any good, a good example would be when he played in the first team usa tourney to get another member.
so is he good, no, was he good, yes.
My memory seems to fail me as to when he was good, however that is besides the point, I'll take your word for it. My post was only so assholish simply because of the way he came off towards NooKS. Saying someone with obvious skill is "bad" when you as of right now can't even compare is pretty retarded imo. I also wanted to make a point that NooKS couldn't figure out how to hack something like PGT if his life depended on it. No offense meant towards him but he knows it is the truth.
On May 12 2005 16:35 bubble_bobble wrote: Hey to you three fellas from the states, I hear there are maps where you can't expand and have a magical mineral patch you can send 200 workers to and the most viable strategy on which is to cannon up and go straight to carriers, what can you tell me about them, the concept sounds interesting?
Why is a jamaican flaming the u.s. ? Name one way jamaica is a better country or name one way you have ever gotten past c4 on wgt in your life. Honestly i have never met a jamaican player, but i doubt that you are any good what so ever.
Im sure Jamaica is a good country same as the US is a good country, I'm sure he sees his country as the best same way as alot of the americans think their country is the liberated godsent land to help the world...lol?
Nooks just cuz u didnt hack in a money tournament didnt mean u didnt cheat? :p
On May 13 2005 05:31 TreK[cF] wrote: Im sure Jamaica is a good country same as the US is a good country, I'm sure he sees his country as the best same way as alot of the americans think their country is the liberated godsent land to help the world...lol?
he was talking about how good a country is in the context of bw. the guy was implying all americans play "fastest money map ever" which is just so ridiculous, stupid, and pointless that i think it deserves a ban. im not offended, just disgusted.
after 5 minuntes of research on the searh engine built by god (google) i found out that the first hack was invented by stephen kosley who lives in canada
On May 13 2005 07:47 statix wrote: after 5 minuntes of research on the searh engine built by god (google) i found out that the first hack was invented by stephen kosley who lives in canada
Which is irrelavent outside of the fact that it shows Canadians great expertise in computer programming? Ok, thanks for that...What you wrote is as idiotic as the douche bag flaming americans.
I don't get why all the time an ex-hacker accuses/makes comments about a current hacker he needs to be flamed with:" hey you hacked too!!"
WHO ARE THESE PPL SAYING THIS? Like WE don't know that. WOW, everyone was very enlightened I am sure. It just makes me sad seeing so many ALWAYS throughout every year trying to look smart in posts such as these.
What do you want from the ex-hackers? I just don't get it. No one cares if Nooks or Testie hacked 2 years ago. We care about wether Lois hacks now or not. So just burry your IQ 90 and let the ppl who actually have a point, like me, talk.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.wgtour.com/upload/photo/71767.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.wgtour.com/upload/photo/t53986.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://ste.gnux.info/ftp/scd/lois-bwchart.png)
![[image loading]](http://ste.gnux.info/ftp/scd/lois-bwchart2.png)
![[image loading]](http://ste.gnux.info/ftp/scd/lois2-rep2.png)
![[image loading]](http://ste.gnux.info/ftp/scd/lois-rep2.png)
![[image loading]](http://ste.gnux.info/ftp/scd/loisbwchart-rep2.png)
i should have written it here 
