EPTSW)Lois A New Maphacker. - Page 7
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VorteXXX
United States430 Posts
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RiSE
United States3182 Posts
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Milzo
France656 Posts
On May 09 2005 11:02 Attacke wrote: Look this comment from testie: ToT)Testie(rS ? BWScanner is not safe. I RANDOM zerg? He does this kind of build? Just watch the replay. There is a 1/3 chance i'm zerg. There is a 1/3 chance i'm on the island he lifts to. He scouted nothing and built an academy and firebats before even knowing my race. If you understand brood war, you'd understand this is not a viable strategy in any option, even for risky shit. This is beyond risk.  http://www.wgtour.com/matchT.php?datab=broodwar&id=27723&idM=43 'o' I don't think that this strat is a complete proof of a hacker. He floated his rax in the most "natural direction", landed it and trained a marine, which is not unreasonable (scouting purposes), saw drones being transfered passing by, then trained a firebat. But yeah going academy on this map is very weird... | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28784 Posts
on gorky I make acad immediately after rax finishes even against picked terran. I've also successfully used dual rax float in 1v1 tourneys on dire straits in games where I felt I had less than a 33% chance of winning through playing straight up. I don't know anything about the technical proof and I can't refute that nor do I know if I want to, a suddenly up and coming player who has never performed live hacking wouldn't surprise me at all.. but the game vs testie really doesn't show anything imo. | ||
Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4520 Posts
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NonYold
United States2814 Posts
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Jim
Sweden1965 Posts
It takes one to know one. | ||
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Telemako
Spain1636 Posts
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vGl-CoW
Belgium8305 Posts
It's been said a few times before here, but superpenguin did actually *prove* he was hacking. His method was perfectly sound. This means there is NO doubt whatsoever: that kid was hacking in that game. There are no glitches or whatever and his excuses aren't even coherent. I don't care if he lost to cheese a few games in TLT, maybe he just wasn't hacking all the time or maybe he was pulling stuff like that exactly to *not* look like a hacker. (Exactly like he was saying in his posts: "would a hacker do this and this and that?"). If you're still sticking up for lastgosu or if you're not sure, you just don't understand superpenguin's method for catching hackers. I suggest you read his thread about it reaaaally thoroughly. There's no further point in discussing this. | ||
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Verbloten
Australia750 Posts
I have watched the replays and i don't see a hacker playing at all. Everything looks totally fine except for that one moment at 10:32 or whenever it was - when he selected the Nexus (or move on..) the nexus where he definately didn't have vision. But i think you people need to understand that you are taking penguins word for it that his programming of this bwac is 100% sound. For example - correct me if i am wrong - but each of the objects in the game are given a number. What if his programming has taken this number and read it as a nexus when in fact it was a nearby dragoon or even one of his own tanks? etc. The guy just plainly does not play like a hacker would. Why would he move a lot of his forces straight into a massive 3 control group lot of opponent forces etc. This is just not right. He does not look Suss to me at all. I think you should all be bloody careful. The message shown on the screen in bwac saying "lois moved on nexus of nookie" is created by penguins programming logic - it is not actually written like that in the .rep file! Also correct me if i am wrong - but bwchart's logic does not show this as even "suspicious". Why on earth not? It does for every other "close encounter" of a select vs available vision.... I'm responsible for bringing to justice a handful of players over time with tools such as bwac/lasgo op3/bwtv/bwchart so trust me - i'm not trying to help a hacker out - but i do believe in fair play and even though i have found people and got them life bans before for similar incidents - i just don't feel right about this one. It just doesn't gel for me. It's one crazy select and yes it can't be explained (except for programming logic problem) but look at the bigger picture - it just doesn't sound right. The hackers i have caught in the past with tools such as this - it was clear because they would do one click in fog in several games or 2 or more in the one game. But they would also show very clear hacking by avoiding situations and drops etc etc. Look me up in the hacker hall of fame thingy that they have over at wgtour if you don't believe my experience with this. I don't think i can do anything but this - and i hope that this makes people have a bit of a think and look a bit further before swearing 100% proof. If i am wrong then Lois deserves all the ridicule in the world - but if i am right then all of you deserve a big kick up the arse for being such arseholes. | ||
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VorteXXX
United States430 Posts
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MVP[eV]
United States270 Posts
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Insane
United States4991 Posts
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superpenguin
France199 Posts
On May 10 2005 06:03 Verbloten wrote: For example - correct me if i am wrong - but each of the objects in the game are given a number. What if his programming has taken this number and read it as a nexus when in fact it was a nearby dragoon or even one of his own tanks? etc. that's why i tell you to check with bwchart. it's identified by both bwchart and penguinplug as the nexus with the object id : 3552. ![[image loading]](http://ste.gnux.info/ftp/scd/lois-bwchart.png) Even if you think they are both wrong, check what nookie do imediately after selecting this object : ![[image loading]](http://ste.gnux.info/ftp/scd/lois-bwchart2.png) he select the object, set the rally point, and train a probe. How could nookie train a prob if it wasnt his own nexus ? If you realy dont belive me, make a test game with exactly the same map, and check the coordinates, the number in bwchart like (x, y) for every action, you will see it's at the location on this nexus. The message shown on the screen in bwac saying "lois moved on nexus of nookie" is created by penguins programming logic - it is not actually written like that in the .rep file! It's not far from what is in the rep file and also what is sent as a command by starcraft internaly. The repfile is only the map + the list of actions. For a "target" action, it's stored in the replay in this way (after beeing uncompressed) : - 1 byte : the player that do the action - 2 bytes : the x position - 2 bytes : the y position - 2 bytes : the targeted unit id (0 = on ground) - 2 bytes : the attack type If one action is wrong, it cant go un-noticed because all the rest of the replay is completely corrupted and all units stay there doing nothing. Also correct me if i am wrong - but bwchart's logic does not show this as even "suspicious". Why on earth not? It does for every other "close encounter" of a select vs available vision.... Bwchart doesnt have the in-game data, it just have the list of actions, the advantage is that it's a standalone program. The drawback are : - It make more false suspicious because it cant know at all if something is visible or not. PenguinPlug use the game engine to determine what is under fog of war or not, and avoid many false suspicious actions. - bwchart only works for "select" actions, penguinplug work also for target and move on - It cant know directly what an unit is and must guess from what is produced on them. It can miss some valid suspicious actions : if your enemy do something on a pylone, it will never be identified as suspicious by bwchart because pylones produce nothing Of course it only change what actions are considered as suspicious, but if you see the full action list, the action detected in penguinplug will at least appear in bwchart. But they would also show very clear hacking by avoiding situations and drops etc etc. Sorry if i dont like too much the subjective idea... people can always argue that theres some unpredictable things or coincidences. And i rather have just 1 proof that is perfect rather than many select actions that are not explained and screenshooted. If someone want to do the same analyse that i did, take the 2nd replay presented here and you have the materials Btw, thanx insane, he also have an accurate explaination that i didnt saw before i started to write this | ||
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Elvin_vn
Vietnam2038 Posts
But yes, he hacked vs nookie. That's all u know and that's enough to ban him. | ||
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TreK
Sweden2089 Posts
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vGl-CoW
Belgium8305 Posts
On May 10 2005 10:07 TreK[cF] wrote: after all this time, how can ppl still be so stupid that they actually SELECT buildings in fog of war ? id imagine after the bwchart revolution "us hackers" would have learned a lesson ? There are maphacks that won't let you select stuff under fog of war (protecting the users against their own retardation). I think this was the case for Lois' maphack as well, but he targeted the nexus instead of selecting it, something his maphack didn't prevent I guess. | ||
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Elvin_vn
Vietnam2038 Posts
On May 10 2005 10:20 vGl-CoW wrote: There are maphacks that won't let you select stuff under fog of war (protecting the users against their own retardation). I think this was the case for Lois' maphack as well, but he targeted the nexus instead of selecting it, something his maphack didn't prevent I guess. soon the maphack will filt this kind of action too not? | ||
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Amnesty
United States2054 Posts
You can select a geyser under fog of war or minerals and see a yellow selection circle made, however its not recorded as selecting the mins/geyser, or buildings for that matter. Although it looks like it selects it, it really selects the ground under it in all cases. Im not gonna bother d/ling a MH to test the other case, but we can deduct if its impossible to select or "move on target" legitly, when someone does it, it must be because of a hack. Louis, can you email TravelToAuir your maphack so he can update BwScanner? Thanks. | ||
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SojT
United States789 Posts
On May 10 2005 10:20 vGl-CoW wrote: There are maphacks that won't let you select stuff under fog of war (protecting the users against their own retardation). I think this was the case for Lois' maphack as well, but he targeted the nexus instead of selecting it, something his maphack didn't prevent I guess. i was wondering about that. wasn't this game played with bwscaner on? doesn't that mean that the hack would have to be some supreme hack that he made or something and if he was capable of making that kind of hack wouldn't he be able to cover up that kind of stuff. I'll admit i havn't seen the replay yet so i can't say for that particular game or not if i beleive he was hacking. However i've seen a lot of other games that he's palyed and he does stuff that hackers wouldn't do. It just doesn't add up to me. I don't think people shuold live by programs and trust in them 100%. I'll watch the replay and give my feedback later | ||
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