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konadora
Singapore66363 Posts
On September 10 2011 00:15 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 23:51 konadora wrote:On September 09 2011 22:24 Sawamura wrote:On September 09 2011 22:15 konadora wrote:On September 07 2011 01:49 OpticalShot wrote:On September 07 2011 01:03 dtz wrote:On September 06 2011 21:34 rplant wrote:Anyone know what the ratings for televised BW in SK have been like over the past few years? Did viewership decline suddenly, or has it been dropping off for a long time? + Show Spoiler + We know that the ProLeague 10-11 numbers were highest among all cable shows which was good, but the only other thing we heard about overall ratings is from Milkis' twitter : OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Someone got some hard numbers regarding TV ratings for OGN and MBC Game... it doesn't look good. (70th and 60th respectively). OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Basically: OGN has a sixth of the rating they had in 2007, MBC has a third of what they had in 2007. So yeah looked grim if that's the case =( But, the two "contradicting statistics" show that maybe there is something wrong with the overall format then because the PL finals shows the interest in the game as a whole is still very high. But probably the format in which teams play each other over and over and over again feels very draggy and reduces the significance of each matches. Therefore, people do not feel compelled to watch it. And the playoff format is also a little weird imo and bad for viewership. Why have the format as one in which the best and most successful team ( as well as the most popular) wait in the final and only play one game? This is the team that will attract the viewers. In normal sports, the broadcasters will sell Yankess / Redsox / Lakers / Celtics / Manchester United / Liverpool / Barcelona games and show it at the best time and try to "exploit " them by showing these teams as much as possible because of their huge number of supporters. PL does the contrary. I think just normal playoff system with seedings should be fine. Maybe this unusual format caused the decline in non- final ratings as well. Interesting point there, and I believe it is very applicable to the SCBW scene as well. During regular season SPL matches, the live audience numbers stagger significantly from match to match. I don't have official numbers or counts or anything, but just from the quick view of the camera in the few audience-capture moments, it's easy to see whether the two teams are popular or not. In this regard, the teams are somewhat at fault, too. Their goal is to win, of course, but more and more so they are generating generic players who practice, play, bow, and exit. "Practice made me play good today" "I was lucky" "Coach helped me calm down and prepare" how many of these have you read in interviews lately? With our dear FBH in Ace and unable to do his thing, we don't have too many radical personalities in SPL that fans would actually bother coming out to watch (or tune into on cable TV, for that matter). Arguably, the "leaders" of this generation (TBLS) aren't really leading the scene - practice, play well, bow, and exit. "I practiced hard, I am happy that I won and I'll practice even harder to win the next match." For WHAT? "Thanks to the fans that came out, I'll try my best to show you better games next time." You know what, how about a kickass ceremony? Then we move onto why the players are bred the way they are. I briefly mentioned that teams train them so. True, but there's more to the story. We are well-aware of how vicious Korean netizens can be. Let me recall one example: Stork made a small half-joke insult at Kwanro about losing on his birthday. Kwanro took slight offense to it (as intended) and was fired up for their next encounter. While that's all good and not over the limit by any means, netizens went wild over the incident, terrorizing each player's personal space. Korean players all know the consequences of breaking the norm. Slight deviation and minute offense can snowball into career-threatening incidents, and that's why the players pretty much keep quiet. Even today, when I check Fomos for news articles, I scroll down to see a familiar scene - "fans" (deliberate quotations) fighting against each other about stuff absolutely off-topic (for example, SCBW vs. SC2 in a SCBW article, which we are too familiar with right here on TL). If Manifesto revived into a Korean moderator working for Fomos tomorrow, 90% of users would be perma-banned. Anyways, the point is, the fanbase also made contributions to the current downfall. I may have derailed myself a bit, so back to playoff format. Yes, I think the current format does not take full advantage of unbalanced team-specific viewership. It's undeniable that the match-fixing scandal and Blizzard vs. KeSPA drama dealt serious damage to our beloved SCBW scene, but the players and the fans haven't been helping themselves either. right on. exactly what i've been telling others as well. the players are so blend and generic and characterless, it's to the point of slightly disgusting. Not today my friend there was lots of emotion hovering around the booth and off booth and I can see all the emotions on Soo face which blatantly showed everything he was thinking off screen . So much emotions going back and forth between the players and jangbi smirking today did it for me . Dead ?Time to move on ? The crowd today attending todays semi final might beg to differ. Those are hardly what I'm speaking of. What I'm talking about is the display of emotion and some fan-interaction outside of the booth. How many months (or even, years) has it been since you've seen players get close to the fans and do some awesome hi-fives (note: the players ignore hi-fives even as they walk to get their photos taken after they win their games, like in OSL), do a ceremony at the camera or do something other than the usual circling-around-with-team and hi-five. After players in the OSL win, they do a simple V-pose, do a fist-shake or two and go backstage, leaving fans desiring for much more (I do, at least). I'm not saying that everyone needs to be a FBH, but if there's only one FBH to look forward to for some out-of-game awesomeness out of the dozens of programers, I think it kinda speaks for itself how robotic progamers have been programmed to be. Also, look at group selection stages. Terrible. No life in them. I don't even bother to watch it for a minute because the progamers lack charisma and confidence on camera. I, for one, think that's one big reason why BW's fanbase is reducing. There is no obligation for pro gamers to do any of the said Charisma ceremony like Firebathero for he is one of a kind , Let's just say that these is a forceful thing that kespa actually implements these kind of obligation to our pro gamer to do something when they win a game . To some they would think its just nothing however some of those may not like doing ceremonies like that . I don't see a problem with them doing any fancy most importantly . What I look forward too is their games and not their ceremonies as a bw fan I expect good games to be played that's all . However that's personally how I feel about the matter at hand . Although I do like the idea that pro gamers should be out reaching and there should be more fbh around the proleague . It's all individual choice for the player to do something outstanding to reach out for their crowds . Bisu's heart shape with his hands to the little girl who always come for his game is already heart warming at the best , Kt' response to us sending a video in responding of our get well card to violet thanking us tl.net bw fan isn't enough in reaching out for the fan . Than I don't know what else is. Stork reaching out to daniel and taking photo with him and even giving him some gifts aren't players reaching out to their fans . Truthfully speaking we all do expect them to cater to all fans ,lets take pga professional especially big names player some times when they FEEL like it they would go out to the fans and autographs caps and shirts . However at some times they are so ignorant and cold that I wonder why am I even being his fan for all the time . When I could I just go to champions tour and get a much more better show and fan treatment . No one is putting a pressure for them to do any ceremony and I fail to see not performing ceremony equals dwindling number of broodwar fan. I am a fan of broodwar because of the game and not colourful ceremonies which will make me go wow, so outstanding .
I'm not saying they should be forced to, but I'm just saying that if they did, then it would be so much beneficial in making the BW scene much more attractive and appealing to watch. I like watching sportsmen like Tiger Woods (his scandals aside) and Agassi (no more though) play because they're not afraid to show their emotions, and as a fan, you feel more connected and interested in that player. Why do you think FBH and Leta has so many fans? Even jangbi is gaining more and more popularity, + Show Spoiler [OSL spoilers] +not just because he's the only Protoss player left in the OSL
Although Bisu and KT examples are undeniable, what I'm looking at is the entire BW fanbase, not just TL's. if they had things like these aired more on channels (MBC used to do all these, but not anymore beyond the end of dec  ), then of course it'd be more attractive. MBCGame HERO's players have so much personality that we didn't know, until some MBCGame HERO update blogs, and it made me fall in love with those players even more. Why aren't such sides displayed and only the robotic sides of these players shown on tv?
As you said, no one is putting pressure on them, and I think being forced to isn't the way to go. But as a long-time BW fan who's been around for over eight years, I feel that players need to realise that they too have to play a part in keeping the BW interest going, and it's not just practicing their mechanics and in-game skills.
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On September 10 2011 00:33 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 00:15 Sawamura wrote:On September 09 2011 23:51 konadora wrote:On September 09 2011 22:24 Sawamura wrote:On September 09 2011 22:15 konadora wrote:On September 07 2011 01:49 OpticalShot wrote:On September 07 2011 01:03 dtz wrote:On September 06 2011 21:34 rplant wrote:Anyone know what the ratings for televised BW in SK have been like over the past few years? Did viewership decline suddenly, or has it been dropping off for a long time? + Show Spoiler + We know that the ProLeague 10-11 numbers were highest among all cable shows which was good, but the only other thing we heard about overall ratings is from Milkis' twitter : OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Someone got some hard numbers regarding TV ratings for OGN and MBC Game... it doesn't look good. (70th and 60th respectively). OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Basically: OGN has a sixth of the rating they had in 2007, MBC has a third of what they had in 2007. So yeah looked grim if that's the case =( But, the two "contradicting statistics" show that maybe there is something wrong with the overall format then because the PL finals shows the interest in the game as a whole is still very high. But probably the format in which teams play each other over and over and over again feels very draggy and reduces the significance of each matches. Therefore, people do not feel compelled to watch it. And the playoff format is also a little weird imo and bad for viewership. Why have the format as one in which the best and most successful team ( as well as the most popular) wait in the final and only play one game? This is the team that will attract the viewers. In normal sports, the broadcasters will sell Yankess / Redsox / Lakers / Celtics / Manchester United / Liverpool / Barcelona games and show it at the best time and try to "exploit " them by showing these teams as much as possible because of their huge number of supporters. PL does the contrary. I think just normal playoff system with seedings should be fine. Maybe this unusual format caused the decline in non- final ratings as well. Interesting point there, and I believe it is very applicable to the SCBW scene as well. During regular season SPL matches, the live audience numbers stagger significantly from match to match. I don't have official numbers or counts or anything, but just from the quick view of the camera in the few audience-capture moments, it's easy to see whether the two teams are popular or not. In this regard, the teams are somewhat at fault, too. Their goal is to win, of course, but more and more so they are generating generic players who practice, play, bow, and exit. "Practice made me play good today" "I was lucky" "Coach helped me calm down and prepare" how many of these have you read in interviews lately? With our dear FBH in Ace and unable to do his thing, we don't have too many radical personalities in SPL that fans would actually bother coming out to watch (or tune into on cable TV, for that matter). Arguably, the "leaders" of this generation (TBLS) aren't really leading the scene - practice, play well, bow, and exit. "I practiced hard, I am happy that I won and I'll practice even harder to win the next match." For WHAT? "Thanks to the fans that came out, I'll try my best to show you better games next time." You know what, how about a kickass ceremony? Then we move onto why the players are bred the way they are. I briefly mentioned that teams train them so. True, but there's more to the story. We are well-aware of how vicious Korean netizens can be. Let me recall one example: Stork made a small half-joke insult at Kwanro about losing on his birthday. Kwanro took slight offense to it (as intended) and was fired up for their next encounter. While that's all good and not over the limit by any means, netizens went wild over the incident, terrorizing each player's personal space. Korean players all know the consequences of breaking the norm. Slight deviation and minute offense can snowball into career-threatening incidents, and that's why the players pretty much keep quiet. Even today, when I check Fomos for news articles, I scroll down to see a familiar scene - "fans" (deliberate quotations) fighting against each other about stuff absolutely off-topic (for example, SCBW vs. SC2 in a SCBW article, which we are too familiar with right here on TL). If Manifesto revived into a Korean moderator working for Fomos tomorrow, 90% of users would be perma-banned. Anyways, the point is, the fanbase also made contributions to the current downfall. I may have derailed myself a bit, so back to playoff format. Yes, I think the current format does not take full advantage of unbalanced team-specific viewership. It's undeniable that the match-fixing scandal and Blizzard vs. KeSPA drama dealt serious damage to our beloved SCBW scene, but the players and the fans haven't been helping themselves either. right on. exactly what i've been telling others as well. the players are so blend and generic and characterless, it's to the point of slightly disgusting. Not today my friend there was lots of emotion hovering around the booth and off booth and I can see all the emotions on Soo face which blatantly showed everything he was thinking off screen . So much emotions going back and forth between the players and jangbi smirking today did it for me . Dead ?Time to move on ? The crowd today attending todays semi final might beg to differ. Those are hardly what I'm speaking of. What I'm talking about is the display of emotion and some fan-interaction outside of the booth. How many months (or even, years) has it been since you've seen players get close to the fans and do some awesome hi-fives (note: the players ignore hi-fives even as they walk to get their photos taken after they win their games, like in OSL), do a ceremony at the camera or do something other than the usual circling-around-with-team and hi-five. After players in the OSL win, they do a simple V-pose, do a fist-shake or two and go backstage, leaving fans desiring for much more (I do, at least). I'm not saying that everyone needs to be a FBH, but if there's only one FBH to look forward to for some out-of-game awesomeness out of the dozens of programers, I think it kinda speaks for itself how robotic progamers have been programmed to be. Also, look at group selection stages. Terrible. No life in them. I don't even bother to watch it for a minute because the progamers lack charisma and confidence on camera. I, for one, think that's one big reason why BW's fanbase is reducing. There is no obligation for pro gamers to do any of the said Charisma ceremony like Firebathero for he is one of a kind , Let's just say that these is a forceful thing that kespa actually implements these kind of obligation to our pro gamer to do something when they win a game . To some they would think its just nothing however some of those may not like doing ceremonies like that . I don't see a problem with them doing any fancy most importantly . What I look forward too is their games and not their ceremonies as a bw fan I expect good games to be played that's all . However that's personally how I feel about the matter at hand . Although I do like the idea that pro gamers should be out reaching and there should be more fbh around the proleague . It's all individual choice for the player to do something outstanding to reach out for their crowds . Bisu's heart shape with his hands to the little girl who always come for his game is already heart warming at the best , Kt' response to us sending a video in responding of our get well card to violet thanking us tl.net bw fan isn't enough in reaching out for the fan . Than I don't know what else is. Stork reaching out to daniel and taking photo with him and even giving him some gifts aren't players reaching out to their fans . Truthfully speaking we all do expect them to cater to all fans ,lets take pga professional especially big names player some times when they FEEL like it they would go out to the fans and autographs caps and shirts . However at some times they are so ignorant and cold that I wonder why am I even being his fan for all the time . When I could I just go to champions tour and get a much more better show and fan treatment . No one is putting a pressure for them to do any ceremony and I fail to see not performing ceremony equals dwindling number of broodwar fan. I am a fan of broodwar because of the game and not colourful ceremonies which will make me go wow, so outstanding . I'm not saying they should be forced to, but I'm just saying that if they did, then it would be so much beneficial in making the BW scene much more attractive and appealing to watch. I like watching sportsmen like Tiger Woods (his scandals aside) and Agassi (no more though) play because they're not afraid to show their emotions, and as a fan, you feel more connected and interested in that player. Why do you think FBH and Leta has so many fans? Even jangbi is gaining more and more popularity, + Show Spoiler [OSL spoilers] +not just because he's the only Protoss player left in the OSL , but also because of his smirk that is becoming meme-grade. He's showing emotions, and I think that's a bonus. But as you said, each person's own preference. Although Bisu and KT examples are undeniable, what I'm looking at is the entire BW fanbase, not just TL's. if they had things like these aired more on channels (MBC used to do all these, but not anymore beyond the end of dec ), then of course it'd be more attractive. MBCGame HERO's players have so much personality that we didn't know, until some MBCGame HERO update blogs, and it made me fall in love with those players even more. Why aren't such sides displayed and only the robotic sides of these players shown on tv? As you said, no one is putting pressure on them, and I think being forced to isn't the way to go. But as a long-time BW fan who's been around for over eight years, I feel that players need to realise that they too have to play a part in keeping the BW interest going, and it's not just practicing their mechanics and in-game skills.
The thing is I do agree with you that they should reach out to their fans more and show more interesting side to their fans rather than high five my team mates and sit down at team bench.But unless we put these up some where for teams to read with a big sign " Hey we need more fan interaction here so things will get more interesting " Teams than would not prioritized spending on fan until the things that you have said is brought up to them .
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konadora
Singapore66363 Posts
On September 10 2011 00:49 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 00:33 konadora wrote:On September 10 2011 00:15 Sawamura wrote:On September 09 2011 23:51 konadora wrote:On September 09 2011 22:24 Sawamura wrote:On September 09 2011 22:15 konadora wrote:On September 07 2011 01:49 OpticalShot wrote:On September 07 2011 01:03 dtz wrote:On September 06 2011 21:34 rplant wrote:Anyone know what the ratings for televised BW in SK have been like over the past few years? Did viewership decline suddenly, or has it been dropping off for a long time? + Show Spoiler + We know that the ProLeague 10-11 numbers were highest among all cable shows which was good, but the only other thing we heard about overall ratings is from Milkis' twitter : OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Someone got some hard numbers regarding TV ratings for OGN and MBC Game... it doesn't look good. (70th and 60th respectively). OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Basically: OGN has a sixth of the rating they had in 2007, MBC has a third of what they had in 2007. So yeah looked grim if that's the case =( But, the two "contradicting statistics" show that maybe there is something wrong with the overall format then because the PL finals shows the interest in the game as a whole is still very high. But probably the format in which teams play each other over and over and over again feels very draggy and reduces the significance of each matches. Therefore, people do not feel compelled to watch it. And the playoff format is also a little weird imo and bad for viewership. Why have the format as one in which the best and most successful team ( as well as the most popular) wait in the final and only play one game? This is the team that will attract the viewers. In normal sports, the broadcasters will sell Yankess / Redsox / Lakers / Celtics / Manchester United / Liverpool / Barcelona games and show it at the best time and try to "exploit " them by showing these teams as much as possible because of their huge number of supporters. PL does the contrary. I think just normal playoff system with seedings should be fine. Maybe this unusual format caused the decline in non- final ratings as well. Interesting point there, and I believe it is very applicable to the SCBW scene as well. During regular season SPL matches, the live audience numbers stagger significantly from match to match. I don't have official numbers or counts or anything, but just from the quick view of the camera in the few audience-capture moments, it's easy to see whether the two teams are popular or not. In this regard, the teams are somewhat at fault, too. Their goal is to win, of course, but more and more so they are generating generic players who practice, play, bow, and exit. "Practice made me play good today" "I was lucky" "Coach helped me calm down and prepare" how many of these have you read in interviews lately? With our dear FBH in Ace and unable to do his thing, we don't have too many radical personalities in SPL that fans would actually bother coming out to watch (or tune into on cable TV, for that matter). Arguably, the "leaders" of this generation (TBLS) aren't really leading the scene - practice, play well, bow, and exit. "I practiced hard, I am happy that I won and I'll practice even harder to win the next match." For WHAT? "Thanks to the fans that came out, I'll try my best to show you better games next time." You know what, how about a kickass ceremony? Then we move onto why the players are bred the way they are. I briefly mentioned that teams train them so. True, but there's more to the story. We are well-aware of how vicious Korean netizens can be. Let me recall one example: Stork made a small half-joke insult at Kwanro about losing on his birthday. Kwanro took slight offense to it (as intended) and was fired up for their next encounter. While that's all good and not over the limit by any means, netizens went wild over the incident, terrorizing each player's personal space. Korean players all know the consequences of breaking the norm. Slight deviation and minute offense can snowball into career-threatening incidents, and that's why the players pretty much keep quiet. Even today, when I check Fomos for news articles, I scroll down to see a familiar scene - "fans" (deliberate quotations) fighting against each other about stuff absolutely off-topic (for example, SCBW vs. SC2 in a SCBW article, which we are too familiar with right here on TL). If Manifesto revived into a Korean moderator working for Fomos tomorrow, 90% of users would be perma-banned. Anyways, the point is, the fanbase also made contributions to the current downfall. I may have derailed myself a bit, so back to playoff format. Yes, I think the current format does not take full advantage of unbalanced team-specific viewership. It's undeniable that the match-fixing scandal and Blizzard vs. KeSPA drama dealt serious damage to our beloved SCBW scene, but the players and the fans haven't been helping themselves either. right on. exactly what i've been telling others as well. the players are so blend and generic and characterless, it's to the point of slightly disgusting. Not today my friend there was lots of emotion hovering around the booth and off booth and I can see all the emotions on Soo face which blatantly showed everything he was thinking off screen . So much emotions going back and forth between the players and jangbi smirking today did it for me . Dead ?Time to move on ? The crowd today attending todays semi final might beg to differ. Those are hardly what I'm speaking of. What I'm talking about is the display of emotion and some fan-interaction outside of the booth. How many months (or even, years) has it been since you've seen players get close to the fans and do some awesome hi-fives (note: the players ignore hi-fives even as they walk to get their photos taken after they win their games, like in OSL), do a ceremony at the camera or do something other than the usual circling-around-with-team and hi-five. After players in the OSL win, they do a simple V-pose, do a fist-shake or two and go backstage, leaving fans desiring for much more (I do, at least). I'm not saying that everyone needs to be a FBH, but if there's only one FBH to look forward to for some out-of-game awesomeness out of the dozens of programers, I think it kinda speaks for itself how robotic progamers have been programmed to be. Also, look at group selection stages. Terrible. No life in them. I don't even bother to watch it for a minute because the progamers lack charisma and confidence on camera. I, for one, think that's one big reason why BW's fanbase is reducing. There is no obligation for pro gamers to do any of the said Charisma ceremony like Firebathero for he is one of a kind , Let's just say that these is a forceful thing that kespa actually implements these kind of obligation to our pro gamer to do something when they win a game . To some they would think its just nothing however some of those may not like doing ceremonies like that . I don't see a problem with them doing any fancy most importantly . What I look forward too is their games and not their ceremonies as a bw fan I expect good games to be played that's all . However that's personally how I feel about the matter at hand . Although I do like the idea that pro gamers should be out reaching and there should be more fbh around the proleague . It's all individual choice for the player to do something outstanding to reach out for their crowds . Bisu's heart shape with his hands to the little girl who always come for his game is already heart warming at the best , Kt' response to us sending a video in responding of our get well card to violet thanking us tl.net bw fan isn't enough in reaching out for the fan . Than I don't know what else is. Stork reaching out to daniel and taking photo with him and even giving him some gifts aren't players reaching out to their fans . Truthfully speaking we all do expect them to cater to all fans ,lets take pga professional especially big names player some times when they FEEL like it they would go out to the fans and autographs caps and shirts . However at some times they are so ignorant and cold that I wonder why am I even being his fan for all the time . When I could I just go to champions tour and get a much more better show and fan treatment . No one is putting a pressure for them to do any ceremony and I fail to see not performing ceremony equals dwindling number of broodwar fan. I am a fan of broodwar because of the game and not colourful ceremonies which will make me go wow, so outstanding . I'm not saying they should be forced to, but I'm just saying that if they did, then it would be so much beneficial in making the BW scene much more attractive and appealing to watch. I like watching sportsmen like Tiger Woods (his scandals aside) and Agassi (no more though) play because they're not afraid to show their emotions, and as a fan, you feel more connected and interested in that player. Why do you think FBH and Leta has so many fans? Even jangbi is gaining more and more popularity, + Show Spoiler [OSL spoilers] +not just because he's the only Protoss player left in the OSL , but also because of his smirk that is becoming meme-grade. He's showing emotions, and I think that's a bonus. But as you said, each person's own preference. Although Bisu and KT examples are undeniable, what I'm looking at is the entire BW fanbase, not just TL's. if they had things like these aired more on channels (MBC used to do all these, but not anymore beyond the end of dec ), then of course it'd be more attractive. MBCGame HERO's players have so much personality that we didn't know, until some MBCGame HERO update blogs, and it made me fall in love with those players even more. Why aren't such sides displayed and only the robotic sides of these players shown on tv? As you said, no one is putting pressure on them, and I think being forced to isn't the way to go. But as a long-time BW fan who's been around for over eight years, I feel that players need to realise that they too have to play a part in keeping the BW interest going, and it's not just practicing their mechanics and in-game skills. The thing is I do agree with you that they should reach out to their fans more and show more interesting side to their fans rather than high five my team mates and sit down at team bench.But unless we put these up some where for teams to read with a big sign " Hey we need more fan interaction here so things will get more interesting " Teams than would not prioritized spending on fan until the things that you have said is brought up to them .
yeah.. i seriously doubt a lot of players recognise and understand this. i think it was boxer who criticized players for being too robotic and mechanical in an interview, saying they lack passion or somewhere along the lines. he's right. a lot of players are, in my view, only interested in keeping their salary safe and the team's image clean, and not considering the view of BW as a whole. we need people to take over the passions of players like Boxer, Nal_rA, YellOw and others who think for bw and ESPORTS as a collective whole, and for its well-being.
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On September 09 2011 23:51 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 22:24 Sawamura wrote:On September 09 2011 22:15 konadora wrote:On September 07 2011 01:49 OpticalShot wrote:On September 07 2011 01:03 dtz wrote:On September 06 2011 21:34 rplant wrote:Anyone know what the ratings for televised BW in SK have been like over the past few years? Did viewership decline suddenly, or has it been dropping off for a long time? + Show Spoiler + We know that the ProLeague 10-11 numbers were highest among all cable shows which was good, but the only other thing we heard about overall ratings is from Milkis' twitter : OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Someone got some hard numbers regarding TV ratings for OGN and MBC Game... it doesn't look good. (70th and 60th respectively). OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee Basically: OGN has a sixth of the rating they had in 2007, MBC has a third of what they had in 2007. So yeah looked grim if that's the case =( But, the two "contradicting statistics" show that maybe there is something wrong with the overall format then because the PL finals shows the interest in the game as a whole is still very high. But probably the format in which teams play each other over and over and over again feels very draggy and reduces the significance of each matches. Therefore, people do not feel compelled to watch it. And the playoff format is also a little weird imo and bad for viewership. Why have the format as one in which the best and most successful team ( as well as the most popular) wait in the final and only play one game? This is the team that will attract the viewers. In normal sports, the broadcasters will sell Yankess / Redsox / Lakers / Celtics / Manchester United / Liverpool / Barcelona games and show it at the best time and try to "exploit " them by showing these teams as much as possible because of their huge number of supporters. PL does the contrary. I think just normal playoff system with seedings should be fine. Maybe this unusual format caused the decline in non- final ratings as well. Interesting point there, and I believe it is very applicable to the SCBW scene as well. During regular season SPL matches, the live audience numbers stagger significantly from match to match. I don't have official numbers or counts or anything, but just from the quick view of the camera in the few audience-capture moments, it's easy to see whether the two teams are popular or not. In this regard, the teams are somewhat at fault, too. Their goal is to win, of course, but more and more so they are generating generic players who practice, play, bow, and exit. "Practice made me play good today" "I was lucky" "Coach helped me calm down and prepare" how many of these have you read in interviews lately? With our dear FBH in Ace and unable to do his thing, we don't have too many radical personalities in SPL that fans would actually bother coming out to watch (or tune into on cable TV, for that matter). Arguably, the "leaders" of this generation (TBLS) aren't really leading the scene - practice, play well, bow, and exit. "I practiced hard, I am happy that I won and I'll practice even harder to win the next match." For WHAT? "Thanks to the fans that came out, I'll try my best to show you better games next time." You know what, how about a kickass ceremony? Then we move onto why the players are bred the way they are. I briefly mentioned that teams train them so. True, but there's more to the story. We are well-aware of how vicious Korean netizens can be. Let me recall one example: Stork made a small half-joke insult at Kwanro about losing on his birthday. Kwanro took slight offense to it (as intended) and was fired up for their next encounter. While that's all good and not over the limit by any means, netizens went wild over the incident, terrorizing each player's personal space. Korean players all know the consequences of breaking the norm. Slight deviation and minute offense can snowball into career-threatening incidents, and that's why the players pretty much keep quiet. Even today, when I check Fomos for news articles, I scroll down to see a familiar scene - "fans" (deliberate quotations) fighting against each other about stuff absolutely off-topic (for example, SCBW vs. SC2 in a SCBW article, which we are too familiar with right here on TL). If Manifesto revived into a Korean moderator working for Fomos tomorrow, 90% of users would be perma-banned. Anyways, the point is, the fanbase also made contributions to the current downfall. I may have derailed myself a bit, so back to playoff format. Yes, I think the current format does not take full advantage of unbalanced team-specific viewership. It's undeniable that the match-fixing scandal and Blizzard vs. KeSPA drama dealt serious damage to our beloved SCBW scene, but the players and the fans haven't been helping themselves either. right on. exactly what i've been telling others as well. the players are so blend and generic and characterless, it's to the point of slightly disgusting. Not today my friend there was lots of emotion hovering around the booth and off booth and I can see all the emotions on Soo face which blatantly showed everything he was thinking off screen . So much emotions going back and forth between the players and jangbi smirking today did it for me . Dead ?Time to move on ? The crowd today attending todays semi final might beg to differ. Those are hardly what I'm speaking of. What I'm talking about is the display of emotion and some fan-interaction outside of the booth. How many months (or even, years) has it been since you've seen players get close to the fans and do some awesome hi-fives (note: the players ignore hi-fives even as they walk to get their photos taken after they win their games, like in OSL), do a ceremony at the camera or do something other than the usual circling-around-with-team and hi-five. After players in the OSL win, they do a simple V-pose, do a fist-shake or two and go backstage, leaving fans desiring for much more (I do, at least). I'm not saying that everyone needs to be a FBH, but if there's only one FBH to look forward to for some out-of-game awesomeness out of the dozens of programers, I think it kinda speaks for itself how robotic progamers have been programmed to be. Also, look at group selection stages. Terrible. No life in them. I don't even bother to watch it for a minute because the progamers lack charisma and confidence on camera. I, for one, think that's one big reason why BW's fanbase is reducing.
This is a video game, not WWE. There is no rule that says the players shouldn't show emotions or do ceremonies. The reason why they don't is either because they are too shy, or because they lack the inspiration. You don't expect football teams to joke around before games, so why would you expect it from a Starcraft team? If you want to make things more interesting, then you have to make something outside of the regular match format, and they already do that, with shows like Battlenet Attack and the various reality shows. I don't know what else they can do. If the problem is that the scene is oversaturated, things should turn out fine in the end. If the problem is bigger than that, it's probably that new people aren't interested anymore because they think the game is too old. However, looking at how many ppl still attends these events, I don't think this is a problem right now, but it might be in the future. The big issue here is most likely Blizzard and SC2. Either they jumped ship because they lost respect for KESPA, or they did it because they fear SC2, and don't want to invest anymore into BW.
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I did the MBC blog because most people here thought MBC was a boring team. Other teams have some personality too, it's just that there's noone on TL to track their activities.
![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/20110906/20110906_649932e96ad8f8ec0ca59028121ec048.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/20110906/20110906_1313d954b641bf5590a8b7b0cab3c27e.jpg)
From the recent Woongjin fan event:
http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/album.php?id=49620&seq=1
Regarding ceremonies, wasn't there some rule that was made regarding "offensive" ceremonies a few years ago. Before that, players did a lot funnier stuff. That rule, among others, needs to go.
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Ehh I'm happy not having 60 Idras.
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On September 06 2011 07:02 Ciryandor wrote:
Don't blame the KPop, blame the guy at the top. KPop and BW can coexist. It's just that certain people think we shouldn't have BW and have KPop all day.
Agreed. Besides if there was no kpop it would be some other thing like reality shows (Survival - Pro Gamer edition) or maybe import shows like 24 (Korean edition!).
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Wasn't there a petition thread not so long ago here?
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On September 10 2011 15:53 ShadeR wrote:
Ehh I'm happy not having 60 Idras.
But from my point of view, match between Idra and Nony at TSL2 was the most interesting and intense thing. It was much more interesting than finals, in my opinion.
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On September 10 2011 15:53 ShadeR wrote:
Ehh I'm happy not having 60 Idras.
I don't know about that. Personality is a good way to get people into the game, and from there they like people based on skill as well. I'm a big Hyuk fan (though more for his Hyukking up tendency, really). There are lots of FBH fans. Idra himself is a terrible BW player and a pretty bad SC2 player nowadays, but still has a decent fandom. Destiny is I think solely SC2, but the best example I can think of for this kind of thing (If anyone knows a good BW equivalent, I'll use him instead). If Brood War is to grow, it needs more "gateway players" who are interesting in and of themselves. I sometimes wonder if what BW could use is a funny guy in C- with a stream who posts to r/starcraft.
I don't know if Brood War should be taking itself so srs at the more middle levels of play. Obviously, the players should legit be trying their best, but maybe a few community-focused things wouldn't hurt. I understand the desire not to be the WWE, but we needn't be golf.
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Does anybody have pictures or coverage of the event "Save MBC Game Performance" recently at Yongsan?
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Hey guys, don't worry, I hear there's this new game out... I think its called... oh nevermind 
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On September 12 2011 20:50 mishimaBeef wrote:Hey guys, don't worry, I hear there's this new game out... I think its called... oh nevermind
DOTA2
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On September 12 2011 18:12 zlosynus wrote:But from my point of view, match between Idra and Nony at TSL2 was the most interesting and intense thing. It was much more interesting than finals, in my opinion.
Well Chalrenge and FBH went to do military service and Rock became a coach. So a bunch of the showboats went off to do other things. It wasn't that long ago that FBH stripped and jumped into the ocean.
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Really sad to see this go. Granted I haven't played a game of bw in months and have all but completely switched over to sc2, I still feel pained seeing MBCGame leaving sc and gaming behind. Its like hearing that your favorite cartoon as a child was just cancelled. All the fun and joy that it brought to you won't be spread to new people and that really makes me sad.
RIP MSL :[
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Haha the WWE quote killed me. Imagine players grabbing a chair and hitting their opponent :D
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Netherlands5628 Posts
I <3 BW and now hate K-pop even more!
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37088 Posts
FML, this was seriously the last thing I thought that would happen to BW......
Who will challenge OnGameNet now? :[
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So is there nothing at al lwe can do about this?
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isn't it an old news???? i thought i read something awhile ago saying a gaming channel would become a music channel, and thought it was MBC
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EPT
