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On June 16 2011 15:58 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Chess / FPS bots and RTS bots are different.
In CS a bot can get an easy win by moving around a map and having auto-aim so it can insta-gib everyone with speed of light reflexes. It is impossible for a human to beat this.
A chess bot can get an easy win by mining a strategy book and thinking 1,000,000 moves ahead. A chess bot will also has to wait a long time to make a decision if it wants to beat a good player, Starcraft bots don't have this, its not allowed to pause the game to figure out the next best move. Just add more CPU time or processing power and it can beat the best chess player in the world.
Starcraft is a game of limited information and infinite skill, even if it somehow determines the perfect counter it still needs perfect execution, and if it can do all that it still looks really awesome. You can't instagib another player like in CS, and strategies can't be predefined with perfect execution (because its not turn-based) like in Chess.
No matter how much processing power or information the computer has, the human player still has a good chance of winning. The human brain gives a much bigger advantage in SC than it does in the other 2 games, that's why its fun and awesome.
Make no mistake, FPS bots can be hard to make competitive to humans, despite having 100% accuracy with hitscan weapons. It is only the fact that counter-strike has very little map control and power up control and movement skill involved that bots are hard to defeat.
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I played EISBOT or EIBOT don't remember exactly, he'd do a 2 gate goon rush PvZ. The goon micro was actually pretty scary; simultanously attack-retreat micro from each individual goon. However, I could trick them to attack my sunkens, which they still suck at. From there it was still pretty tight, but it refused to make high templar, so my hydraling force iventually crushed his goon/zealot/obs force.
Here's the replay: ![[image loading]](http://repdepot.net/img/thumbs/42474.jpg) two over 900 apm peaks, lol!
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This is just like Chess bots,
They are beatable, except with a different style.
I don't see these kinds of bots being able to reach higher levels (D+ or higher). The issue is that you can hide tech or just lure them into cannons/sunkens/bunkers and watch the pain ensue.
The difference between FPS bots and RTS bots is that in an RTS game the amount of thoughts and actions required is much higher, and the game is less limited. So the human player can do many other things to exploit/just beat the bot without too much pain.
Chess is a different story due to the restricted nature of the game, and the fact that each player has 100% vision of the game. The RTS bot still cannot know where your base in, or your units, so it still has to guess, and can't calculate out each move like Chess.
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At first I thought that was Flash playing on iccup. I was wrong.
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Its still pretty impressive.
Considering Go AI plays at 5 Dan which seems to be upper end of the amateur spectrum, D- is pretty good if C is considered decent.
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i cant believe even ESPORTS found its way to this thread
BWAI projects are simply amazing. the fact someone could make an AI actually win games on iccup is amazing. and hey, even a bot like this is great for newbs to start to play against, a constant source of games minus the abusive playstyle of higher tier players.
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Very interesting. I wonder who made it. I also feel sorry for whoever lost to this thing.
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I don't see these kinds of bots being able to reach higher levels (D+ or higher). The issue is that you can hide tech or just lure them into cannons/sunkens/bunkers and watch the pain ensue.
check it's last season stats, D+ every season lol :-P
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Search for the nony bot which basically did nony's build to a T and would win quite a few games.
There are also zerg roach bots in sc2 that have insane burrow micro to keep them all alive.
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On June 16 2011 15:58 sluggaslamoo wrote:
A chess bot can get an easy win by mining a strategy book and thinking 1,000,000 moves ahead. A chess bot will also has to wait a long time to make a decision if it wants to beat a good player, Starcraft bots don't have this, its not allowed to pause the game to figure out the next best move. Just add more CPU time or processing power and it can beat the best chess player in the world.
Actually chess bots don't use a strategy book except for the first few moves, they learn for themselves by analyzing grandmaster play and determining what things are valuable in a position, then evaluating the possible future positions using that knowledge.
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After this thing reaches A+, it will start looking for a harder challenge...
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GGetWin[MB] lost vs this..... seriously....
I feel disappoint 
also what you doing playing vs D- Telecom 
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On June 18 2011 04:17 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Its still pretty impressive.
Considering Go AI plays at 5 Dan which seems to be upper end of the amateur spectrum, D- is pretty good if C is considered decent.
Wow. That's actually pretty impressive. I thought they were still at 2 - 3 Dan, but I just looked it up and apparently a computer go program called Zen19D reached 5 Dan on KGS. Although I'm under the impression that 5D on KGS isn't necessarily as good as 5D 'generally,' because of some ranking inflation on KGS.
Do you know if there have been any recent professional vs computer games without a handicap? I know computers have won with handicaps (usually 7 - 9 stones) against 5 - 9P, but obviously playing with a handicap and playing at even is a very different experience. I know they obviously can't win yet, but I'd at least be interested in seeing if they're any closer than they were.
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also what you doing playing vs D- Telecom
lol I played it like 3 times because I was amazed by I was playing an AI on iccup...
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there are lots of bots in iccup D-. some of the universities have custom AI that plays games nonstop using the same build.
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So basicily what you say is that for the first time there is an official bot on ICCUP who reach D+ so you were saying that Flash were not a bot ? come on ^^
More seriously you also have to play yourself like a bot to loose vs this.
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On June 18 2011 06:20 Signet wrote:
After this thing reaches A+, it will start looking for a harder challenge...
Dun dun dunnnnn :o
Flash better watch out.
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I have played a few games against some different named D- bots that host the map Destiny, go random and when the game starts they announce their race. They then cheese you, such as building bunkers in your base, 4pool, or cannon rush. Fail and say gg.
If you mention the word bot they respond with no or my English not very good etc.
Generally imo this is pretty sad
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EPT
