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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On June 13 2011 07:22 EtherealDeath wrote: Really? Protoss hasn't won an OSL/MSL since 2008? Wow... Im new to BW but when watching some old and classic/defining games and stuff all i can say is how? I mean there are some awesome protosses out there aren't there? (sry for noobishness of a new BW spectator >.<) | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On June 13 2011 08:17 ZeromuS wrote: Im new to BW but when watching some old and classic/defining games and stuff all i can say is how? I mean there are some awesome protosses out there aren't there? (sry for noobishness of a new BW spectator >.<) group of death stopped Bisu from getting a silver this past MSL. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On June 13 2011 08:19 Release wrote: group of death stopped Bisu from getting a silver this past MSL. I see well ill continue to spec and read some recaps of events and hope for protoss to show some awesomeness  Protoss doesnt seem to win as much as the other races though I guess not enough amazing players choose protoss unfortunately  | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On June 13 2011 07:40 MountainDewJunkie wrote: No, the the mana is what is it was before being mind controlled. So much misinformation in this thread... which is why I said "I'm not sure" before, no need to be such a dick about it. On June 13 2011 06:50 littlefighter wrote: I pretty sure that only applies to other Dark Archons. Would be cool if someone could test this out lol | ||
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lyAsakura
United States1414 Posts
On June 13 2011 08:31 ArvickHero wrote: which is why I said "I'm not sure" before, no need to be such a dick about it. Would be cool if someone could test this out lol Actually, I'm pretty sure MC doesn't reset any other unit's energy. It only put's it's own shields to zero, sort of like an EMP without completely draining the DA's energy (so it's left with no shields, 25 health, and energy - 150). | ||
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
From what I recall, when you mindcontrol a unit, you gain all the spells of the MC'ed unit. If you MC an enemy high templar with the amulet and stormed researched, all of your templars will instantly receive those upgrades for free. If you MC a crackling, you will receive the adrenaline gland upgrade, assuming you have lings. However, the attack/defense upgrades will not be transferred. When you MC a unit of different race, it will be outside of your Protoss supply. If you MC a drone or SCV, you can build a Zerg or Terran army of your own as they will have their own supplies. If you MC'ed a caster, it will retain all of its energy. A Dark Archon will lose all of its shield the instant it casts MC, leaving it with 25hp. | ||
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littlefighter
43 Posts
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=42416 | ||
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
On June 13 2011 09:00 dukethegold wrote: I used to experiment with Mindcontrol a lot. From what I recall, when you mindcontrol a unit, you gain all the spells of the MC'ed unit. If you MC an enemy high templar with the amulet and stormed researched, all of your templars will instantly receive those upgrades for free. If you MC a crackling, you will receive the adrenaline gland upgrade, assuming you have lings. However, the attack/defense upgrades will not be transferred. When you MC a unit of different race, it will be outside of your Protoss supply. If you MC a drone or SCV, you can build a Zerg or Terran army of your own as they will have their own supplies. If you MC'ed a caster, it will retain all of its energy. A Dark Archon will lose all of its shield the instant it casts MC, leaving it with 25hp. I can confirm everything said here is completely correct | ||
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Herro_Korea
310 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I do understand if nobody does x] Topic of scouts usefulness was touched in his thread. in pvz late game I sometimes start producing scouts instead of sairs with stargate, its not bad because they kill ovies much faster, and can be really annoying for zerg / they need to put spores around or place hydras at bases to protect the drones. | ||
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
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JMave
Singapore1803 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On June 13 2011 10:26 iTzAnglory wrote: Corsairs definitely have potential if the mechanics were like in StarCraft 2 with autocast, but unfortunately it is not. It is definitely too difficult to micro Corsairs along with your army in late game. with a tiny bit of practice, Progamers can utilize DWeb as efficiently as any other spell. Bisu's Sair/Reaver/Carrier is a good reference to DWeb being used extremely well, and some Chinese progamers have developed a Dragoon/Corsair PvT style. It's just most don't choose to use Corsairs because it's not really needed, although I believe as PvZ evolves and Protosses in general catch up to Bisu's level of Corsair control/preservation, we'll be seeing DWeb tactics being incorporated mid-late game. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On June 13 2011 12:37 ArvickHero wrote: with a tiny bit of practice, Progamers can utilize DWeb as efficiently as any other spell. Bisu's Sair/Reaver/Carrier is a good reference to DWeb being used extremely well, and some Chinese progamers have developed a Dragoon/Corsair PvT style. It's just most don't choose to use Corsairs because it's not really needed, although I believe as PvZ evolves and Protosses in general catch up to Bisu's level of Corsair control/preservation, we'll be seeing DWeb tactics being incorporated mid-late game. nah dude i disagree with this. Dwebb is not a new concept at the professional level; it had its chance during the Sair/Reaver craze and was featured by several prominent players including Bisu. But pro players have deliberately chosen to not upgrade it since. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Also scouts won Rekrul a ton of money http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/index.php?player1=rekrul&team1_race=Protoss&map=&description=&uploader=&player2=zephyr&team2_race=Terran&search=1 | ||
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
On June 13 2011 12:49 d_so wrote: nah dude i disagree with this. Dwebb is not a new concept at the professional level; it had its chance during the Sair/Reaver craze and was featured by several prominent players including Bisu. But pro players have deliberately chosen to not upgrade it since. Sair reaver can be deadly if you can get like 1 observer, but you cant. | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
On June 12 2011 01:57 d_so wrote: massed scouts rape everything a zerg has besides devourers/mutas. When muta microed they outrange hydras easy. in PvT i think scouts should be used mid game to kill dropships. When my opponent goes scouts in ZvP, I take another two or three expansions and spam scourge and mutas. I don't remember any game I lost this way. | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On June 13 2011 12:49 d_so wrote: nah dude i disagree with this. Dwebb is not a new concept at the professional level; it had its chance during the Sair/Reaver craze and was featured by several prominent players including Bisu. But pro players have deliberately chosen to not upgrade it since. Exactly what do you disagree with? DWeb wasn't used primarily because of how out-of-the-way Protosses had to go to use DWeb if they were going standard (standard being only getting 3 Corsairs, and a big ground army), but with Corsair/Reaver/Carrier (which maps do not favor currently, not to mention it is insanely hard to pull off) it was a very natural extension to simply upgrade DWeb (which they did). Now that +1 Corsairs are featured in every PvZ, it would be pretty natural for Protosses to simply upgrade DWeb if they can preserve their Corsairs well. The problem being is, IF they can preserve their Corsairs well. Most Protoss progamers end up losing almost all their Corsairs by the mid-late game, so of course it's not worth it to spend money on the Fleet Beacon and research DWeb. But since progamers are always using Corsairs now, I feel that Corsair control/preservation will reach a very strong finesse (like Terrans and EMP, way better at it now than before) that will justify forays into DWeb tactics. Incidentally, Kal also had notably used DWeb in a couple of PvZs earlier this year. Then he fell into a huge slump lol | ||
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CakeOrI)eath
United States327 Posts
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On June 13 2011 14:29 ArvickHero wrote: Exactly what do you disagree with? DWeb wasn't used primarily because of how out-of-the-way Protosses had to go to use DWeb if they were going standard (standard being only getting 3 Corsairs, and a big ground army), but with Corsair/Reaver/Carrier (which maps do not favor currently, not to mention it is insanely hard to pull off) it was a very natural extension to simply upgrade DWeb (which they did). Now that +1 Corsairs are featured in every PvZ, it would be pretty natural for Protosses to simply upgrade DWeb if they can preserve their Corsairs well. The problem being is, IF they can preserve their Corsairs well. Most Protoss progamers end up losing almost all their Corsairs by the mid-late game, so of course it's not worth it to spend money on the Fleet Beacon and research DWeb. But since progamers are always using Corsairs now, I feel that Corsair control/preservation will reach a very strong finesse (like Terrans and EMP, way better at it now than before) that will justify forays into DWeb tactics. Incidentally, Kal also had notably used DWeb in a couple of PvZs earlier this year. Then he fell into a huge slump lol well, i disagree with several things. The first is the idea that Dwebb is a new idea to modern PvZ that will soon be utilized in pro play. +1 Corsair play (without reavers) has been played for almost 2 years now ever since 5 hatch hydra started crushing Sair Reaver. Some Protoss builds including the then-decent Jangbi would pump corsairs off of 2 stargates. And yet there have been very few games with Dwebb usage (though i have to admit i didnt watch the Kal games ur referring to). Dwebb's decline in popularity goes further back imo than modern PvZ. Even during sair/reaver days, players suddenly just stopped upgrading Dwebb. I don't know why it happened, but after Andromeda I can't recall a single map where sair reaver was played with Dwebb. I don't know why Dwebb suddenly stopped getting popular. But the "natural"-ness of Dwebb in today's PvZ is not a new thing. It should have been natural for the past year and a half or so, yet protoss seems to be deliberately skipping it. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1803 Posts
On June 12 2011 07:48 DMXD wrote: I also like to add that terrans these days like going barrack into Comand Center to soft counter fast next, going forge Fe put you really really behind against this. Just to ask, when did PvT fast nex have a forge with it? As far as I knew, it was always 12 nex and never forge nex. Or nex forge for that matter unless if you take into consideration this new upgrade kinda build P has been using lately. But still, the forge always came after the core was planted down. | ||
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