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On June 13 2011 02:54 Masheyoon wrote:
Speaking of mind control, one thing I'm surprised progamers haven't utilized is mind controlling a shuttle (preferably with a reaver or two inside ;D) in PvP. Even though players don't always go reavers in PvP, the addition of Feedback still seems like it might pay off anyway.
Outside of the fact that Mind Control needs to be researched (thus will come long after Storm, and Amulet(?) which you obviously will research asap).. Not to mention it takes a ton of energy to cast, and DA doesnt have Devour (did i mention Devour is OP? xD).. Of course 250/200 is a steep cost as well, and after that spell (Feedback/Mind Control) that investment is useless.
That much investment for something that *might* be useful is not very worth it imo. Im not saying its useless, just that it seems that something else is better in most situations.
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10387 Posts
Jaehoon vs Ssak on Circuit Breakers, Jaehoon Mind Controls a Vessel rofl
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I think I'd rather have a corsair vs zerg, or a carrier for 60 more in game seconds PvT.
Corsair does splash damage, it's faster, cheaper, builds faster, can stun ground targets in AOE, etc. Against terran, you need a fleet beacon anyway for their super expensive extremely lengthy upgrade; I'd rather just go carriers.
You fly a bunch of scourge into 6 corsairs also none of them die because they 1 shot scourge in an area. You fly a bunch of scourge into slow scouts, they all die because their missles are single target and slow.
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On June 13 2011 04:52 ArvickHero wrote:
Jaehoon vs Ssak on Circuit Breakers, Jaehoon Mind Controls a Vessel rofl
Brilliant. What Protoss should do is mind control a vessel so he can emp another vessel which leads to a opening for recall.
Or you can use the mind control upgrade money to make another arbiter so you have two recalls...
Didn't Jaehoon mind control the vessel and only used it as a detector and didn't even emp with it?
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Scouts are awesome, but sadly they are only capital ship killers. If it wasn't for the fact that Protoss already has already strong spells to deal with capital ships (Storm, Mind Control, Stasis) we actually might see them in use. (think Carriers in PvP or Late game BCs in TvP).
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10387 Posts
On June 13 2011 05:14 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 04:52 ArvickHero wrote:
Jaehoon vs Ssak on Circuit Breakers, Jaehoon Mind Controls a Vessel rofl Brilliant. What Protoss should do is mind control a vessel so he can emp another vessel which leads to a opening for recall. Or you can use the mind control upgrade money to make another arbiter so you have two recalls... Didn't Jaehoon mind control the vessel and only used it as a detector and didn't even emp with it?
Pretty much yea it was just that one lol moment and then the Vessel never really saw much use afterwards..
And I'm not sure, but I think if you MC a spellcaster it resets their mana to zero
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On June 13 2011 02:54 Masheyoon wrote:
Speaking of mind control, one thing I'm surprised progamers haven't utilized is mind controlling a shuttle (preferably with a reaver or two inside ;D) in PvP. Even though players don't always go reavers in PvP, the addition of Feedback still seems like it might pay off anyway.
Mind Control costs 150 mana and is expensive to research. By the time you have it, you probably won't see many reavers in PvP anyway, because Psionic Storm destroys them pretty hard.
(Oh, man, how cool would it be if robotic units were immune to psionic storm?)
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On June 13 2011 06:39 Severedevil wrote:
(Oh, man, how cool would it be if robotic units were immune to psionic storm?)
Terran players worldwide would rejoice.
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On June 13 2011 06:28 ArvickHero wrote:
And I'm not sure, but I think if you MC a spellcaster it resets their mana to zero
I pretty sure that only applies to other Dark Archons.
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On June 13 2011 02:17 gostunv wrote:
It hurts a Toss lot more if they lose a shuttle to scourge with 2 reavers in it compared to a Terran who loses a dropship to scourge with two tanks in it. Of course this is theoretically speaking near the mid game.
It seems to me the risk is less due to the cost of the units (though the Terran units are less expensive, 400/300/6 vs 600+/300/10) than the production facilities involved and build time. Reavers and shuttle both come from the same building, and Protoss (for some reason) often don't build more than one robotics facility until late-game. Total build-time is "200" to rebuild the Protoss drop (plus the extra resources) where the Terran, even if we assume he has only one factory, rebuilds his drop in half that time - and additionally is more likely to have spare dropships, if not tanks, already floating around due to where the game is.
I haven't watched carefully, but Protoss who pump non-stop reaver/shuttle seem rare, even though it forms a very potent backbone to a macro PvZ a la free, Stork (or Bisu last night, for that matter). The reason is almost certainly the high mineral cost of reavers/scarabs/shuttles when zealots are practically a necessity for the matchup, but I do wonder about the decision.
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On June 13 2011 06:45 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 06:39 Severedevil wrote:
(Oh, man, how cool would it be if robotic units were immune to psionic storm?) Terran players worldwide would rejoice.
Terran has zero robotic units, so I don't know why they'd care. Their mech units are all mechanical but not robotic.
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On June 13 2011 06:57 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 06:45 okum wrote:On June 13 2011 06:39 Severedevil wrote:
(Oh, man, how cool would it be if robotic units were immune to psionic storm?) Terran players worldwide would rejoice. Terran has zero robotic units, so I don't know why they'd care. Their mech units are all mechanical but not robotic.
I would have assumed robotic = mechanical, since this is an actual unit class (whereas your "robotic" category seems made up)
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Scouts have a passive effect on the game. Their AA is so strong that it makes some units very unattractive for the other races to get en-mass. I often think just having one scout would be useful against a Terran who likes dropships tho, if only to hunt them down and make sure they don't continue to disrupt your play.
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On June 13 2011 07:03 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 06:57 Severedevil wrote:On June 13 2011 06:45 okum wrote:On June 13 2011 06:39 Severedevil wrote:
(Oh, man, how cool would it be if robotic units were immune to psionic storm?) Terran players worldwide would rejoice. Terran has zero robotic units, so I don't know why they'd care. Their mech units are all mechanical but not robotic. I would have assumed robotic = mechanical, since this is an actual unit class (whereas your "robotic" category seems made up)
The Probe and the Reaver are Robotic. Neither have pilots so they can be Broodling'd.
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Really? Protoss hasn't won an OSL/MSL since 2008? Wow...
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What the fuck are all these SC2 trolls doing here.
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On June 13 2011 06:28 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 05:14 dukethegold wrote:On June 13 2011 04:52 ArvickHero wrote:
Jaehoon vs Ssak on Circuit Breakers, Jaehoon Mind Controls a Vessel rofl Brilliant. What Protoss should do is mind control a vessel so he can emp another vessel which leads to a opening for recall. Or you can use the mind control upgrade money to make another arbiter so you have two recalls... Didn't Jaehoon mind control the vessel and only used it as a detector and didn't even emp with it? Pretty much yea it was just that one lol moment and then the Vessel never really saw much use afterwards.. And I'm not sure, but I think if you MC a spellcaster it resets their mana to zero
No, the the mana is what is it was before being mind controlled.
So much misinformation in this thread...
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Nony has some vods in his TSL pack using 3star scouts in a normal TvP used in the fashion of wraiths, check it out.
Also there was 2 specific situations i recall where they would have been preferable. BeSt vs Flash on Fortress to stop himself being raped by drops constantly, and Stork vs Fantasy on Pathfinder. Stork could have used good scout micro to prevent the elevators into his base.
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i am a scout and im proud of it
edit: actually scouts can be useful in pvt like a carrier switch but hits earlier but it requires crazy timing i think
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On June 13 2011 02:17 gostunv wrote:
Ive always thought its harder for Toss players to be consistently good at the game because they have a smaller margin of error. Their units costs more than the other races so a single mistake is more costly than when others make a mistake.
It hurts a Toss lot more if they lose a shuttle to scourge with 2 reavers in it compared to a Terran who loses a dropship to scourge with two tanks in it. Of course this is theoretically speaking near the mid game.
Also against T, vults and tanks are so much more cost effective than toss units.
These are reasons why I think Bisu is so good at vZ with his great multi-tasking. He can keep crucial mistakes to a minimum.
All IMO obviously.
Remember, terrans and zergs workers are 20% less efficient than those of protoss, so terrans get hurt more if they lose stuff than protoss
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EPT
