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The Hope of Protoss: The Scout - Page 10

Forum Index > BW General
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Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Jragon
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1471 Posts
June 28 2011 09:17 GMT
#181
On June 22 2011 16:22 Brad` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 15:09 Jragon wrote:
On June 13 2011 08:14 xarthaz wrote:
On June 13 2011 02:17 gostunv wrote:
Ive always thought its harder for Toss players to be consistently good at the game because they have a smaller margin of error. Their units costs more than the other races so a single mistake is more costly than when others make a mistake.
It hurts a Toss lot more if they lose a shuttle to scourge with 2 reavers in it compared to a Terran who loses a dropship to scourge with two tanks in it. Of course this is theoretically speaking near the mid game.

Also against T, vults and tanks are so much more cost effective than toss units.

These are reasons why I think Bisu is so good at vZ with his great multi-tasking. He can keep crucial mistakes to a minimum.

All IMO obviously.

Remember, terrans and zergs workers are 20% less efficient than those of protoss, so terrans get hurt more if they lose stuff than protoss


You be trolling?

No? Its common knowledge.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mining


This game is so beautifully nuanced, even if unintentional
"Bisu is just too good." - Jaedong (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218995) "Bisu hyung's play is just too good" - Flash (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225861)
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
June 28 2011 09:59 GMT
#182
On June 28 2011 18:17 Jragon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 16:22 Brad` wrote:
On June 22 2011 15:09 Jragon wrote:
On June 13 2011 08:14 xarthaz wrote:
On June 13 2011 02:17 gostunv wrote:
Ive always thought its harder for Toss players to be consistently good at the game because they have a smaller margin of error. Their units costs more than the other races so a single mistake is more costly than when others make a mistake.
It hurts a Toss lot more if they lose a shuttle to scourge with 2 reavers in it compared to a Terran who loses a dropship to scourge with two tanks in it. Of course this is theoretically speaking near the mid game.

Also against T, vults and tanks are so much more cost effective than toss units.

These are reasons why I think Bisu is so good at vZ with his great multi-tasking. He can keep crucial mistakes to a minimum.

All IMO obviously.

Remember, terrans and zergs workers are 20% less efficient than those of protoss, so terrans get hurt more if they lose stuff than protoss


You be trolling?

No? Its common knowledge.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mining


This game is so beautifully nuanced, even if unintentional


Them probes are soulless husks, coldblooded warriors.

Anybody else find it ironic that the only Protoss unit with good AI is the probe?
Jragon
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1471 Posts
June 29 2011 02:16 GMT
#183
On June 28 2011 18:59 dukethegold wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2011 18:17 Jragon wrote:
On June 22 2011 16:22 Brad` wrote:
On June 22 2011 15:09 Jragon wrote:
On June 13 2011 08:14 xarthaz wrote:
On June 13 2011 02:17 gostunv wrote:
Ive always thought its harder for Toss players to be consistently good at the game because they have a smaller margin of error. Their units costs more than the other races so a single mistake is more costly than when others make a mistake.
It hurts a Toss lot more if they lose a shuttle to scourge with 2 reavers in it compared to a Terran who loses a dropship to scourge with two tanks in it. Of course this is theoretically speaking near the mid game.

Also against T, vults and tanks are so much more cost effective than toss units.

These are reasons why I think Bisu is so good at vZ with his great multi-tasking. He can keep crucial mistakes to a minimum.

All IMO obviously.

Remember, terrans and zergs workers are 20% less efficient than those of protoss, so terrans get hurt more if they lose stuff than protoss


You be trolling?

No? Its common knowledge.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mining


This game is so beautifully nuanced, even if unintentional


Them probes are soulless husks, coldblooded warriors.

Anybody else find it ironic that the only Protoss unit with good AI is the probe?


Probes are cute.

It should be the same AI, only different acceleration and deceleration.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mining

Liquipedia is pretty good; those gifs really highlight what a big difference 18% is


"Bisu is just too good." - Jaedong (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218995) "Bisu hyung's play is just too good" - Flash (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225861)
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11944 Posts
June 29 2011 03:29 GMT
#184
Probes being better at mining actually balances the game. If you think about it, Protoss units are more expensive than T's or Z's units at the same level/tier.

Also the build and forget mechanic also helps.
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
Ryshi
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Canada361 Posts
June 29 2011 04:20 GMT
#185
On June 29 2011 11:16 Jragon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2011 18:59 dukethegold wrote:
On June 28 2011 18:17 Jragon wrote:
On June 22 2011 16:22 Brad` wrote:
On June 22 2011 15:09 Jragon wrote:
On June 13 2011 08:14 xarthaz wrote:
On June 13 2011 02:17 gostunv wrote:
Ive always thought its harder for Toss players to be consistently good at the game because they have a smaller margin of error. Their units costs more than the other races so a single mistake is more costly than when others make a mistake.
It hurts a Toss lot more if they lose a shuttle to scourge with 2 reavers in it compared to a Terran who loses a dropship to scourge with two tanks in it. Of course this is theoretically speaking near the mid game.

Also against T, vults and tanks are so much more cost effective than toss units.

These are reasons why I think Bisu is so good at vZ with his great multi-tasking. He can keep crucial mistakes to a minimum.

All IMO obviously.

Remember, terrans and zergs workers are 20% less efficient than those of protoss, so terrans get hurt more if they lose stuff than protoss


You be trolling?

No? Its common knowledge.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mining


This game is so beautifully nuanced, even if unintentional


Them probes are soulless husks, coldblooded warriors.

Anybody else find it ironic that the only Protoss unit with good AI is the probe?


Probes are cute.

It should be the same AI, only different acceleration and deceleration.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mining

Liquipedia is pretty good; those gifs really highlight what a big difference 18% is



The wiki gif is only true for that patch, take the patch below the one being mined and you will notice the zerg is faster (test it yourself). You will notice the drone does a turn around and doesn't even need to decelerate, whereas the probe will. However, for most patches, wiki is right and the probe is fastest. I remember there was a guide on which minerals are best to mine for a certain race on maps like BGH and python, despite how close they may seem.

I also recall someone said mining speed of a particular mineral patch is not based on workers but the size of the cc/nexus/hatch, although I am unsure of its validity.
The World God Only Knows
champignones
Profile Joined September 2008
Panama160 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 04:37:40
June 29 2011 04:37 GMT
#186
it all depends about efectivity i mean why would i spend a ton of money on something that doesnt bring me any advantage whatsoever, instead i spend on little cheap one that are effective. thats what make units like the scout useless, his benefits are very little compared to cheaper things that does the same thing in major quantities.
you shouldnt worry if everybody ignore you, you should be worry when they dont anymore.
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-29 05:42:08
June 29 2011 05:12 GMT
#187
On June 12 2011 16:08 c3rberUs wrote:
The fact with using scouts is that they are too costly for their effectiveness. The 275 mins and 125 gas could be used somewhere else and get better results. We should ask blizz to patch the game and make scouts viable .

If they will really patch it, (one can dream) IMO they should make the AtG more powerful and the AtA less powerful so as not to overlap with the sair and speed upg. researched already.


Would the players, KeSPA, and whoever else is in charge allow and/or agree on a "patch" for BW?

Technically they could edit the maps and edit the stats of the scout through Staredit (you can make it so Scouts start with the speed upgrade for example).

The only issue (well tediousness) with doing that is that this needs to be done for every single map and there needs to be no errors (all maps needs to be checked so that they have the right settings).

The downside is that the BW has had not a single gameplay patch/change ever 2001(patch 1.08 was last balance one right?) so that means that'd be it could be really strange since the game has been played the same for nearly ten years.

Obviously if they ever agree on changes for the game, the Scout seems like a good candidate for a buff (either it starts with speed upgrade already, builds slightly faster, costs slightly less, deals more ground damage, etc).

___________

Though in terms of a patch, I wouldn't mind if Blizzard added new interface options for observers(they'd also need to add actual observer slots) like in SC2 (since resources and supply have been covered already, how about things like tech progress and things like that)? The question is how hard would it be to implement and/or if it's even possible with the SC engine.

Edit - How do they make resources/supply show up on the bottom right corner sometimes in Korean broadcasts? Program that runs in the background that manages to obtain those values from SC then overlays them over the screen?
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
OSM.OneManArmy
Profile Joined April 2011
United States509 Posts
June 29 2011 06:42 GMT
#188
You know, before i actually saw what reaver corsair was, i assumed you used the corsairs D-Webs to neutralize like sunkens and hydra balls while u dance reaver around. So i definately think D-Webs will be the next leap in protoss fighting; i hope Bisu leads it ^^
Admin of High School Starleague // hsstarleague.com // https://www.facebook.com/HSStarleague // UCI Dota2 President https://www.facebook.com/groups/ucidota/
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
June 29 2011 06:56 GMT
#189
On June 29 2011 15:42 OSM.OneManArmy wrote:
You know, before i actually saw what reaver corsair was, i assumed you used the corsairs D-Webs to neutralize like sunkens and hydra balls while u dance reaver around. So i definately think D-Webs will be the next leap in protoss fighting; i hope Bisu leads it ^^


People have been doing this for a long time w/ sair-reaver. It's just that people don't go hardcore sair reaver that often anymore. If you go all Sair-reaver and don't mass transition into gateway units, you can get a fleet beacon then transition to carriers too. One example of sair-reaver getting to dwebs is Nal_ra vs Savior @ blizzcon iirc.
Dakkas
Profile Joined October 2010
2550 Posts
June 29 2011 09:38 GMT
#190
On June 22 2011 16:22 Brad` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2011 15:09 Jragon wrote:
On June 13 2011 08:14 xarthaz wrote:
On June 13 2011 02:17 gostunv wrote:
Ive always thought its harder for Toss players to be consistently good at the game because they have a smaller margin of error. Their units costs more than the other races so a single mistake is more costly than when others make a mistake.
It hurts a Toss lot more if they lose a shuttle to scourge with 2 reavers in it compared to a Terran who loses a dropship to scourge with two tanks in it. Of course this is theoretically speaking near the mid game.

Also against T, vults and tanks are so much more cost effective than toss units.

These are reasons why I think Bisu is so good at vZ with his great multi-tasking. He can keep crucial mistakes to a minimum.

All IMO obviously.

Remember, terrans and zergs workers are 20% less efficient than those of protoss, so terrans get hurt more if they lose stuff than protoss


You be trolling?

No? Its common knowledge.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mining


Mind = blown
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
June 29 2011 15:31 GMT
#191
On June 29 2011 15:42 OSM.OneManArmy wrote:
You know, before i actually saw what reaver corsair was, i assumed you used the corsairs D-Webs to neutralize like sunkens and hydra balls while u dance reaver around. So i definately think D-Webs will be the next leap in protoss fighting; i hope Bisu leads it ^^


The Chinese player Legend actually uses D-Webs in PvT. I'll see if I can find VODs/Replays later.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
KinosJourney2
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden1811 Posts
June 29 2011 15:57 GMT
#192
Only thing Scouts are useful for is taking down Battlecruisers or Carriers, i don't see them doing anything else well. They MIGHT work as a transition from a FE vs a mech terran with no anti air, like making 2-5 scouts to keep him on his backfoot then macroing up a ground army.
ocho wrote: EDIT: NEVERMIND, THIS THING HAS APM TECHNOLOGY OMG
ffreakk
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2155 Posts
June 29 2011 16:46 GMT
#193
I dont know, i feel that the time taken to make 2-5 scouts and the time it takes for them to get to his base is enough for him to move his backfoot in front of our face already :p

/theory
Look. Only Forward. See. Only Victory.
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
June 29 2011 16:53 GMT
#194
On June 12 2011 01:48 One Page Memory wrote:

Exactly what I was going to post. Bravo.
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
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