On June 12 2011 02:10 k.taeyang wrote: Scout is slightly useful when it has the speed+range upgrade and only if used as an anti-air...
It's slow It costs a lot of money It takes a lot of time to build one And it's weak...
That's why it's the most useless unit in BW
my point of view is exactly the same as k. taeyang. Against T: terran can mass tank/vol/gol. scout does almost nothing Against Zerg: might be a little useful against muta and overlord, but i would MUCH rather prefer sairs with web
i dont see why protoss cant do a 2 stargate scout build like the terran 2 port wraith its a bit more expensive, but scouts have shield regen and possibly with the upgrades at the fleet becon, could be amazing, and ya id also love to see distortion web used in pvt
On June 18 2011 02:10 Skelephile wrote: i dont see why protoss cant do a 2 stargate scout build like the terran 2 port wraith its a bit more expensive, but scouts have shield regen and possibly with the upgrades at the fleet becon, could be amazing, and ya id also love to see distortion web used in pvt
Reason highlighted. Also it takes a bunch longer. While you're getting up your scouts, you'd get stomped by hydras/mutas/lings. (Also Terran can just throw up rines/bunkers/turrets if Zerg all-ins, while photon cannons are less effective.)
On June 17 2011 19:47 cursor wrote: Honestly though, Blizzard should do one last patch for the Protoss.
Give the Scout energy, and a spell like Force Field... something to help balance things out a bit. Wall out those Lings super easy!!
Or just undo the storm nerf so it actually kills big things.
On June 13 2011 09:00 dukethegold wrote: I used to experiment with Mindcontrol a lot.
From what I recall, when you mindcontrol a unit, you gain all the spells of the MC'ed unit.
If you MC an enemy high templar with the amulet and stormed researched, all of your templars will instantly receive those upgrades for free.
If you MC a crackling, you will receive the adrenaline gland upgrade, assuming you have lings.
However, the attack/defense upgrades will not be transferred.
When you MC a unit of different race, it will be outside of your Protoss supply. If you MC a drone or SCV, you can build a Zerg or Terran army of your own as they will have their own supplies.
If you MC'ed a caster, it will retain all of its energy.
A Dark Archon will lose all of its shield the instant it casts MC, leaving it with 25hp.
Don't know if you have tried this - you can tame all the little neutral dudes with MC aswell, like Ursadons and such. :D
i dont watch a lot of BW, i came from wc3 to sc2, but ive always loved the game, and have watched many OSL and MSL and pro league games, played fastest possible, and gone 0-20 on iccup. and tbh, i only seem to see ZvT, maybe the occasional ZvZ TvT, or P match up, but ive only really watched P in old vods. would love to see some P players doing better : ) PvT is a great match up imo, and from the little of what ive seen (TSL1 and 2 had a bit, but havent seen much from korea), so is PvZ
I think Dweb still should be used in a PvZ situation where P goes 2gate sairs and Z has gone greedy with simcity and static defense to defend an early expo.
I forget what game it was, but I saw this situation and I couldn't believe P refused to go Dweb
EDIT: found it
M18M drops Templar Archives and Robotics at around the 12 minute mark of the game (15 in the VOD). He uses them to go for DT drops, which prove little effective, and also preparing HTs for a frontal attack. His frontal attack fails to pierce for a combination of reasons - not enough observers (just bad gameplay) and because storms don't do anything against the massive amount of spaced out sunkens Soulkey had there (the interesting bit)*. Having failed, he drops a support bay sometime during that attack and has his first reavers around the 15-16 minute mark. However, by now Soulkey is firmly established in his early 4gas hive and M18M is too behind to accumulate the protoss tech ball needed, working on a late 3rd min-only and taking a very late 4th in desperation to catch up.
My beef is that I think that Dweb would work PERFECTLY in a situation like this, where Z is reliant primarily on static and semi-static (lurker) defense to protect a precariously greedy early 3rd/4th. When you're pumping sairs out 2gates, you cannot possibly tell me it isn't worth it to go Fleet Beacon and research web, as opposed to throwing down a Robo/Archives/Support Bay and investing in shuttle DT drops that are easily shut down, HT storms that don't work against sunkens, and reavers that are too little too late.
sorry for the wall of theorycraft, I always wanted to make a thread about this game in Strategy but I was too lazy to and this topic brought up the debate that I've been keeping to myself.
*well he also got flanked pretty damn hard by a gaggle of lurkerling but FOCUS LETS TALK ABOUT DWEB
On June 13 2011 09:00 dukethegold wrote: I used to experiment with Mindcontrol a lot.
From what I recall, when you mindcontrol a unit, you gain all the spells of the MC'ed unit.
If you MC an enemy high templar with the amulet and stormed researched, all of your templars will instantly receive those upgrades for free.
If you MC a crackling, you will receive the adrenaline gland upgrade, assuming you have lings.
However, the attack/defense upgrades will not be transferred.
When you MC a unit of different race, it will be outside of your Protoss supply. If you MC a drone or SCV, you can build a Zerg or Terran army of your own as they will have their own supplies.
If you MC'ed a caster, it will retain all of its energy.
A Dark Archon will lose all of its shield the instant it casts MC, leaving it with 25hp.
Don't know if you have tried this - you can tame all the little neutral dudes with MC aswell, like Ursadons and such. :D
They still wiggle/wander around though!
Hmm. Are there any pro games where MC is used in any of these ways (particularly on non-toss?)
It is sad when the supposedly anti-capital ship unit is demoted as a quick-fix desperation unit, that is, if you go have star and plan to go carrier/arbiter and suddenly you see your opponent rushing towards you, cancel and make scouts LOL. Stork learned this the hard way losing the recent OSL to Fantasy. On the other hand, scouts are great in UMS, especially Fastest Maps where you dedicate a 200/200 Scout army when your opponent tries to get Carrier/BC heavy. As it is, the Scout has no role in BW. Its upgrades are astronomic, its role so specific but unclear, and there are better units that do the job. BM Scout still rocks though!
With its very low cost, almost instantaneous building time, lightning fast speed, cheap useful upgrades, Einsteinesque AI and high damage output against ground units I wonder why the Scout isn't used more. Like for example today in
On June 21 2011 22:17 Fenrax wrote: With its very low cost, almost instantaneous building time, lightning fast speed, cheap useful upgrades, Einsteinesque AI and high damage output against ground units I wonder why the Scout isn't used more. Like for example today in
On June 13 2011 02:17 gostunv wrote: Ive always thought its harder for Toss players to be consistently good at the game because they have a smaller margin of error. Their units costs more than the other races so a single mistake is more costly than when others make a mistake. It hurts a Toss lot more if they lose a shuttle to scourge with 2 reavers in it compared to a Terran who loses a dropship to scourge with two tanks in it. Of course this is theoretically speaking near the mid game.
Also against T, vults and tanks are so much more cost effective than toss units.
These are reasons why I think Bisu is so good at vZ with his great multi-tasking. He can keep crucial mistakes to a minimum.
All IMO obviously.
Remember, terrans and zergs workers are 20% less efficient than those of protoss, so terrans get hurt more if they lose stuff than protoss
On June 13 2011 02:17 gostunv wrote: Ive always thought its harder for Toss players to be consistently good at the game because they have a smaller margin of error. Their units costs more than the other races so a single mistake is more costly than when others make a mistake. It hurts a Toss lot more if they lose a shuttle to scourge with 2 reavers in it compared to a Terran who loses a dropship to scourge with two tanks in it. Of course this is theoretically speaking near the mid game.
Also against T, vults and tanks are so much more cost effective than toss units.
These are reasons why I think Bisu is so good at vZ with his great multi-tasking. He can keep crucial mistakes to a minimum.
All IMO obviously.
Remember, terrans and zergs workers are 20% less efficient than those of protoss, so terrans get hurt more if they lose stuff than protoss
EPT
